Messi Or Ronaldo?

Call Me Jimmy · 13-01-2015 1:36am

Tonight, Ronaldo dos Santos Aveira reserves a place for himself in the annals of history. To say this is historic is to say that a light bluish hue appears to be blue. A cacophony of cheers goes out across Europe and the world. It rings out across Manchester where he formerly played and therefore is immortalised and no less it rings out across the underdog island of Mediera; whence from which he came. The Primordial Soup.

The determination, the flair, the preened eyebrows are a testament to the man and the footballer that he is. 2015 is the year of the androgynous, the sublime, THE Ronaldo. Don't cry for me argentina - the truth is I never left you - because I was never there

Ronaldo: Ballon D'or

Smithwicks Man · 13-01-2015 1:52am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So they wouldn't have won without him?

There's no way you can determine this. You're making it out as though he was a passenger in the team despite being very influential throughout the tournament

The Golden Miller · 13-01-2015 1:56am

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

There's no way you can determine this. You're making it out as though he was a passenger in the team despite being very influential throughout the tournament

I never said he wasn't influential. Many players are influential. I just don't think he "led" them to the champions league.

Well in your genuinely honest opinion, do you think they would have won it anyway?

Smithwicks Man · 13-01-2015 2:04am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I never said he wasn't influential. Many players are influential. I just don't think he "led" them to the champions league.

Well in your genuinely honest opinion, do you think they would have won it anyway?

I think they probably would have but you can't state it as a fact like your are doing, anything could have happened.

You said he happened to be in the team.

The Golden Miller · 13-01-2015 2:08am

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I think they probably would have but you can't state it as a fact like your are doing, anything could have happened.

You said he happened to be in the team.

It was in response to someone saying he led them to it, as if he pulled off a Kaka in 2007. More of an over-emphasis to make a point to those who won't admit it

astonaidan · 13-01-2015 2:22am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So they wouldn't have won without him?

No I dont think they would have, but how can that be judged, without Messi would Barcelona have won their champions leagues

astonaidan · 13-01-2015 2:23am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It was in response to someone saying he led them to it, as if he pulled off a Kaka in 2007. More of an over-emphasis to make a point to those who won't admit it

Did Kaka really win it all by himself, cause thats really belittling the rest of the team going by your logic. What about DIDA, wont someone please think of DIDA!!!!!

Smithwicks Man · 13-01-2015 2:27am

astonaidan wrote: »

Did Kaka really win it all by himself, cause thats really belittling the rest of the team going by your logic. What about DIDA, wont someone please think of DIDA!!!!!

Bridge93 · 13-01-2015 2:32am

Penalties are something Ronaldo does better than Messi hence why one takes them for his team while the other doesnt for his. It's a skill. You can't just discount his penalties because Messi doesn't take them. It's taking away something Ronaldo is better at than Messi for no reason other than it produces goals.

eagle eye · 13-01-2015 4:30am

Bridge93 wrote: »

Penalties are something Ronaldo does better than Messi hence why one takes them for his team while the other doesnt for his. It's a skill. You can't just discount his penalties because Messi doesn't take them. It's taking away something Ronaldo is better at than Messi for no reason other than it produces goals.

There is very little between them statistically on penalites, maybe 1% or so in Ronaldo's favour.

8-10 · 13-01-2015 7:49am

eagle eye wrote: »

There is very little between them statistically on penalites, maybe 1% or so in Ronaldo's favour.

I think everybody just remembers Messi's v Chelsea and thinks he's bad at them

13-01-2015 8:34am

I'll never understand Ronaldo and Messi fanboys tbh and never will.

Anyway, on Ronaldo leading Madrid to fcuk all last season. He scored 17 goals in 11 apps on the way to Champions League glory.

That is all.

Kirby · 13-01-2015 8:58am

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'll never understand Ronaldo and Messi fanboys tbh and never will.

Don't be coy. You understand them perfectly. Neither of them have ever played for Liverpool though.

If Suarez has been in the running, we know what your fanboy cries would be.

LuckyLloyd · 13-01-2015 9:14am

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Tonight, Ronaldo dos Santos Aveira reserves a place for himself in the annals of history. To say this is historic is to say that a light bluish hue appears to be blue. A cacophony of cheers goes out across Europe and the world. It rings out across Manchester where he formerly played and therefore is immortalised and no less it rings out across the underdog island of Mediera; whence from which he came. The Primordial Soup.

The determination, the flair, the preened eyebrows are a testament to the man and the footballer that he is. 2015 is the year of the androgynous, the sublime, THE Ronaldo. Don't cry for me argentina - the truth is I never left you - because I was never there

Ronaldo: Ballon D'or

I fear this post will be under appreciated

FortuneChip · 13-01-2015 9:15am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I fear this post will be under appreciated

A crying shame. It's glorious!

13-01-2015 10:09am

Kirby wrote: »

Don't be coy. You understand them perfectly. Neither of them have ever played for Liverpool though.

If Suarez has been in the running, we know what your fanboy cries would be.

Ha, not really.

The two of them are quite a bit away from anyone else in world football and have been for a while.

Two in the same generation at similar ages battling it out year in year out is great tbh.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 10:25am

eagle eye wrote: »

There is very little between them statistically on penalites, maybe 1% or so in Ronaldo's favour.

you just made that up, messi has missed 16 penalties in his career so far, that is an awful record

Kirby · 13-01-2015 10:49am

Why are you including penalty shootouts in that?

If goals scored in shootouts don't count, misses don't count either.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 10:57am

bangkok wrote: »

you just made that up, messi has missed 16 penalties in his career so far, that is an awful record

Real Madrid seemingly get awarded a lot more penalties than Barca do.

Anyway are you using that stat against Messi here when comparing his goalscoring record to Ronaldo? So he scores more or less as many goals as Ronaldo, but Ronaldo's total are made up of a lot more penalty kicks? That stat could be viewed in Messi's favour in these comparisons, given that more of his goals are not penalty kick goals.

Billy86 · 13-01-2015 11:00am

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ha, not really.

The two of them are quite a bit away from anyone else in world football and have been for a while.

Two in the same generation at similar ages battling it out year in year out is great tbh.

Just a shame some have to view one as "their guy" and the other as "the enemy", and desperately attempt to write off anything and everything they do as a result of it. It's splitting hairs between the two of them over their careers, I might lean towards Ronaldo but then again I would have a bias from his Man Utd days... basically in my opinion, Ronaldo would not have done as well as Messi has in that Barca team of the last 6-7 years, while Messi would not have done as well in those Madrid/Man Utd teams as Ronaldo did. Messi has the extra Ballon d'Or (and of course two more up until yesterday) while Ronaldo has won it in two different countries for two different teams... again, matters of preference.

Of course the scary thing is that when Barca bought Quaresma all the talk was that is was a coin toss between him and Ronaldo, with Man Utd picking up whichever they chose not to go for - Quaresma was a little older and was more polished at that point, which is the feeling why they went for him. Not sure if Ronaldo would have developed the same as he did under Ferguson's man management and Quieroz' tactical ability and history of developing young players (like the Portuguese side of the 90s) but imagine if he had gone there and had developed similar, alongside Xavi, Iniesta and co... and of course, Messi. :eek:

bangkok · 13-01-2015 11:00am

Ronaldo is better than messi now....end of

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 11:01am

bangkok wrote: »

Ronaldo is better than messi now....end of

Fact....Not.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 11:03am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Fact....Not.

2 ballon dors in a row, and 33 goals already this season. not even an argument

The_Kew_Tour · 13-01-2015 11:12am

Is it ok to applaud them as the 2 greatest players of their generation without having to belittle their acheivements.

Personally, I think Messi edges it down the years, but the way people down either is silly.

For me it was close between Ronaldo and Neuer, but the outfield player will get it 99% of the time.

Love watching Ronaldo I will make no apology for it. Have a soft spot for him cause he played for United woop de doo. He has done few cringe things alright, but he ain't only one.

Anyway, be interesting to see if anybody can get near Messi or Ronaldo for award this year.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 11:19am

bangkok wrote: »

2 ballon dors in a row, and 33 goals already this season. not even an argument

Messi is the better player of the two of them overall in their careers to date. You can argue if you like, that's my view on it.

Backstreet Moyes · 13-01-2015 11:24am

Ronaldo scores 17 goals in 11 games and breaks the goalscoring record in the competition. I then read all he done really was be in the starting team. He scored bucket load of goals against the defending Champions so they don't matter because they hammered them. Look up at who the poster is and then it makes more sense.

Barca for years have hammered teams so at what point do goals stop being important in a game. Should we discredit any goals after being 2-0 up because they are meaningless. Should we say because Messi scored loads of goals in hammerings they wouldn't have mattered anyway so they shouldn't be really counted?

Backstreet Moyes · 13-01-2015 11:26am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Messi is the better player of the two of them overall in their careers to date. You can argue if you like, that's my view on it.

Except the poster clearly said Ronaldo is better now so why are you moving the goalposts.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 11:31am

Nuts102 wrote: »

Except the poster clearly said Ronaldo is better now so why are you moving the goalposts.

I don't care who won the Ballon d'Or this particular year. The thread asks Messi or Ronaldo? I am saying (still) that I'd pick Messi. It's fairly straightforward.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 11:42am

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't care who won the Ballon d'Or this particular year. The thread asks Messi or Ronaldo? I am saying (still) that I'd pick Messi. It's fairly straightforward.

thread was started 4 years ago..... Ronaldo IS NOW the best player in the world and has been for the last few years

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 11:43am

bangkok wrote: »

thread was started 4 years ago..... Ronaldo IS NOW the best player in the world and has been for the last few years

Nope.

You could argue that Ronaldo deserved the ballon d'or this year for his performances for R Madrid, you could also argue in a world Cup year that the winner of the ballon d'or should turn up at the World Cup as well when his country is involved. Ballon d'or or not, Messi is still the best player in the world.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 11:52am

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope.

You could argue that Ronaldo deserved the ballon d'or this year for his performances for R Madrid, you could also argue in a world Cup year that the winner of the ballon d'or should turn up at the World Cup as well when his country is involved. Ballon d'or or not, Messi is still the best player in the world.

the same Ronaldo who scored a hat trick away to Sweden to get his country to a world cup and then went to the world cup clearly injured?!

anyway, no point talking to you, most footballing people would agree 100% that Ronaldo is now the best player in the world and has proved it the last few years

bangkok · 13-01-2015 11:54am

will-cristiano-ronaldo-recapture-the-ballon-dor-in-2015.jpg?w=600

hard luck citizen

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 11:58am

bangkok wrote: »

the same Ronaldo who scored a hat trick away to Sweden to get his country to a world cup and then went to the world cup clearly injured?!

anyway, no point talking to you, most footballing people would agree 100% that Ronaldo is now the best player in the world and has proved it the last few years

Eh no, that's just like your opinion.

Are you the spokesman for most footballing people:pac:.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 12:01pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Eh no, that's just like your opinion.

Are you the spokesman for most footballing people:pac:.

http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/ballon-dor/playeroftheyear-men/02/50/58/45/fboaward_menplayer2014_neutral.pdf

like I said

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 12:01pm

bangkok wrote: »

hard luck citizen

As I said earlier, I think I speak for most footballing people that you could argue he deserved the ballon d'or this year for his R Madrid performances but you could also argue that in a World Cup year the winner of the ballon d'or really ought to turn up at the World Cup and perform for his country. Messi is still number 1.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 12:04pm

bangkok wrote: »

http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/ballon-dor/playeroftheyear-men/02/50/58/45/fboaward_menplayer2014_neutral.pdf

like I said

The thread is about who is the better player overall, not who won a poll in a particular year.

Messi is (still) the better player overall.

Kirby · 13-01-2015 12:04pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

you could also argue that in a World Cup year the winner of the ballon d'or really ought to turn up at the World Cup and perform for his country. Messi is still number 1.

Yeah but I wouldn't hold that against him. It's very easy to underperform at the world cup.....3 games and you could be done. And If you get a tough group, it can very easily happen.

He has better players to play with at Madrid than with Portugal so that plays a factor too. Portugal have some excellent players but they also have a surprisingly large number of dross in their squad. Sure look at Sweden and Ibra....they didn't even make it.

Donnielighto · 13-01-2015 12:10pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Eh no, that's just like your opinion.

Are you the spokesman for most footballing people:pac:.

Well he was voted player of the year by footballing people with about twice as many votes as messi.

Anyway you responded to post about best right noe by trying to change the point then rowing back.

Donnielighto · 13-01-2015 12:13pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

As I said earlier, I think I speak for most footballing people that you could argue he deserved the ballon d'or this year for his R Madrid performances but you could also argue that in a World Cup year the winner of the ballon d'or really ought to turn up at the World Cup and perform for his country. Messi is still number 1.

Messi got pott at the WC but he didn't turn up. Wasn't even top 2 in his own team really. Wouldn't hold that against him though.

shrewdness · 13-01-2015 12:15pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

As I said earlier, I think I speak for most footballing people that you could argue he deserved the ballon d'or this year for his R Madrid performances but you could also argue that in a World Cup year the winner of the ballon d'or really ought to turn up at the World Cup and perform for his country. Messi is still number 1.

I presume you weren't happy with Messi winning the Ballon D'or in 2010 so, there were certainly more worthy players if the World Cup is the such a big factor.

Also it's not like Messi performed heroics last summer in the big games for Argentina. He was excellent in an average group, but then didn't perform like he can in the knockout stages and crucially in the final. I think most people acknowledge that him winning the Golden Ball was laughable. He was certainly better than Ronaldo but not to the extent that he should win the Ballon D'or over him.

Liam O · 13-01-2015 12:19pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

As I said earlier, I think I speak for most footballing people that you could argue he deserved the ballon d'or this year for his R Madrid performances but you could also argue that in a World Cup year the winner of the ballon d'or really ought to turn up at the World Cup and perform for his country. Messi is still number 1.

Ah so he's not the spokesperson for most footballing people but you have self appointed
yourself as such. Brilliant stuff.

Messi was Argentina's 3rd best player at the WC and I speak for all football people when I say that.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 12:19pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Well he was voted player of the year by footballing people with about twice as many votes as messi.

For the record I reckon Neuer should've got the ballon d'or this time around.

Donnielighto wrote: »

Anyway you responded to post about best right noe by trying to change the point then rowing back.

I haven't rowed back. I am saying quite clearly that Messi is (still) the best player in the world, despite the result of the ballon d'or poll for this particular year yesterday. Is that clear enough for ya.

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 12:20pm

Liam O wrote: »

Ah so he's not the spokesperson for most footballing people but you have self appointed
yourself as such. Brilliant stuff.

Messi was Argentina's 3rd best player at the WC and I speak for all football people when I say that.

I think I speak for everyone when I say that I disagree with that there:pac:

bullvine · 13-01-2015 12:21pm

How Messi won in 2010 is beyond ridiculous, he shouldnt have even been shortlisted for it, Xavi, Iniesta and Sniejder were all much better than him that year. He deserved it in 09 and 11 but the 2012 could easily have been won by Ronaldo. I think its testament to Ronaldo that he went 4 years without winning it and has now won it twice in a row. That's an achievement in itself!

bangkok · 13-01-2015 12:29pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

They're picking the Ballon d'Or tonight, I think Messi should get it.

Messi says he's staying at Barcelona.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30773367

If he was to leave I think the only possible place for him to go to would be Bayern Munich.

you said that yesterday and now your saying Neuer should have won it??!!

haha gas man

elefant · 13-01-2015 12:35pm

Liam O wrote: »

Messi was Argentina's 3rd best player at the WC and I speak for all football people when I say that.

Macherano and who else was better?
Argentina wouldn't have come without an ass's roar of the final without Messi. He looked the only way Argentina could score.

bangkok · 13-01-2015 12:36pm

elefant wrote: »

Macherano and who else was better?
Argentina wouldn't have come without an ass's roar of the final without Messi. He looked the only way Argentina could score.

di maria, he was voted best player for argentina last year

TheCitizen · 13-01-2015 12:39pm

bangkok wrote: »

you said that yesterday and now your saying Neuer should have won it??!!

haha gas man

I changed my mind on that poll for the ballon d'or this year.

I haven't changed my mind on the answer to this thread's original question though, the answer to that is (still) Lionel Messi.

Donnielighto · 13-01-2015 12:43pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

I changed my mind on that poll for the ballon d'or this year.

I haven't changed my mind on the answer to this thread's original question though, the answer to that is (still) Lionel Messi.

Sure that isnt going to change in the next 24? It might suit an agenda.

Liam O · 13-01-2015 12:43pm

elefant wrote: »

Macherano and who else was better?
Argentina wouldn't have come without an ass's roar of the final without Messi. He looked the only way Argentina could score.

He looked the only way they could score while Di Maria was there to open up space for him and pass him the ball. The goals fairly dried up once Di Maria's fitness became an issue.

Messi Or Ronaldo?

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