Messi Or Ronaldo?

Your Airbag

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's a penalty, give me a penalty and I'd fancy myself to notch a few goals even against a professional goalkeeper. Ask me to break down the entire defence of the English champions, like Messi did for Barcelona's second goal, and I could be there for years trying and not even come close. It hardly needs spin. Despite the penalty miss last night (which he crafted in the first place) he was on a different level to anyone else on the pitch.

Lol hyperbole bs at its finest. He went past a couple of players and laid the ball out wide to the fullback. So that = breaking down the entire defence of the English champion.

Some biased rubbish on here.

GLaDOS

Messi certainly isn't a proficient penalty taker: http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/stats-lionel-messi-pretty-rubbish-penalty-record-late/

Missed 13 out of 59 penalties for club and country. Pretty poor considering his undoubted talent.

CSF

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Messi certainly isn't a proficient penalty taker: http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/stats-lionel-messi-pretty-rubbish-penalty-record-late/

Missed 13 out of 59 penalties for club and country. Pretty poor considering his undoubted talent.

5 of the last 10. To be honest, he shouldn't be taking them anymore, and the only reason he still is, is because of a selfish need to compete with Ronaldo's goal tally.

Excellent performance by Messi last night though, particularly in the first half, so I'd still agree that too much has been made of the penalty/rebound.

Rayne Wooney

That's a fairly poor stat if true that I wasn't aware of

Aren't something like 70% of all penalties scored, Messi should be well above that

TheCitizen

Whatever about Messi shouldn't be taking the penalties, Ronaldo definitely shouldn't be taking free kicks.

Rayne Wooney

TheCitizen wrote: »

Whatever about Messi shouldn't be taking the penalties, Ronaldo definitely shouldn't be taking free kicks.

why not?

I read that in 12/13 Ronaldo's conversion rate was 8.2% and Messi's 8.8%, shoud Messi not take them either?

Gringo180

Ronaldo is an amazing talent but I dont know how anybody could say he is the better player than Messi.

Messi is one of the best players to ever grace the game and the best since Maradonna imo. Maybe I am wrong but most who I hear say Ronaldo is better are Utd fans.

Skylinehead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

why not?

Because Gareth Bale is far better at taking them.

Rayne Wooney

Skylinehead wrote: »

Because Gareth Bale is far better at taking them.

You got the conversion rates on hand to back it up?

Bale missed the target completely more than any other player in Europe last season apparantly

TheCitizen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

why not?

I read that in 12/13 Ronaldo's conversion rate was 8.2% and Messi's 8.8%, shoud Messi not take them either?

Cos Ronaldo's not the best free kick taker at Real Madrid. I think there are more recent stats on Ronaldo and frees and they're not good. Someone put them up on another thread.

Gbear

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

why not?

I read that in 12/13 Ronaldo's conversion rate was 8.2% and Messi's 8.8%, shoud Messi not take them either?

The strike rate isn't the only important stat.

Total number of frees taken is also a factor.

I can't see Messi taking on 40 yarder direct FKs whereas you would imagine Ronaldo taking them and Ronaldo's technique is a fairly straight run up and smashing it with the instep whereas Messi goes for curlers that a lefty can't really take from the left hand side as easily.

So while the individual strike rates mightn't be that far removed, the overall effectiveness of set pieces could be adversely effected more in one case than another.

You'd have to know the relevant figures to get a proper answer and I don't have them to hand, but it's not as simple as looking at the conversion rate.

And it's entirely possible, based on his FKs at Liverpool, that Messi should be passing them over to Suarez, particularly if they're from the left.

TheCitizen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You got the conversion rates on hand to back it up?

Bale missed the target completely more than any other player in Europe last season apparantly

Posted on the Shalke v Real Madrid thread:
Ya guess I was wrong

According to AS, using statistics expert Mr Chip, Bale scores a free-kick goal in every 9.5 attempts, while Ronaldo only hits the back of the net in every 15.6 free-kicks.

The Spanish paper report Bale’s stats are even better than the one of Juventus’s set-piece expert Andrea Pirlo (10.5 free-kicks per goal) and Lionel Messi (14.1 free-kicks per goal).

Skylinehead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You got the conversion rates on hand to back it up?

Bale missed the target completely more than any other player in Europe last season apparantly

TheCitizen beat me to it, but yes. Bales are much better.

Does that really surprise you though? Ronaldo takes a peach of a free kick every million attempts, the vast majority go straight at the wall or are skied.

Rayne Wooney

Skylinehead wrote: »

TheCitizen beat me to it, but yes. Bales are much better.

Does that really surprise you though? Ronaldo takes a peach of a free kick every million attempts, the vast majority go straight at the wall or are skied.

Or you know, it takes him 6 more attempts to score than it does for Bale, generally the frees from the right +35 yards are lobbed into the box but the ones on the left side Ronaldo normally chances his arm so it's going to skew the stats

I think the sharing they do now is the best option tbh

Skylinehead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Or you know, it takes him 6 more attempts to score than it does for Bale, generally the frees from the right +35 yards are lobbed into the box but the ones on the left side Ronaldo normally chances his arm so it's going to skew the stats

I think the sharing they do now is the best option tbh

Yes, he does chance his arm, and inevitably it's a poor choice. Skewed or not it's still a wasted chance. Bale is simply better, I can see how much it hurts.

Talib Fiasco

Thing is with ronaldo's free kicks is either they smash the net or else nearly fly out of the stadium. They just aren't consistent at all when compared with Messi, Bale, Pirlo, Toure, Suarez etc. Stats can be very misleading at times but it's clear to anyone who watches the game regularly that Ronaldo isn't a great free taker.

Rayne Wooney

Yeah that 0.6% Messi has on Ronaldo is sheer consistency

astonaidan

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ronaldo is an amazing talent but I dont know how anybody could say he is the better player than Messi.

Messi is one of the best players to ever grace the game and the best since Maradonna imo. Maybe I am wrong but most who I hear say Ronaldo is better are Utd fans.

Dont think I agree with that statement, their is plenty of people who think Ronaldo is better

CSF

I think there is very little between Messi and Ronaldo on free-kicks. Bale should definitely be (and is) taking some of Real's freekicks, because as has been mentioned, there are certain kinds of freekicks that you just know in advance that Ronaldo is pelting over, or flying over the bar.

tayto lover

Messi by a country mile. No comparison between them.
Ronaldo is very good but Messi is on another level completely.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

Messi by a country mile. No comparison between them.
Ronaldo is very good but Messi is on another level completely.

And yet 2 years in a row, his fellow professionals and coaches have decided that Ronaldo has been the better player, overwhelmingly so.

How is this possible if Messi is on another level completely?

Talib Fiasco

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yeah that 0.6% Messi has on Ronaldo is sheer consistency

Big difference between forcing the keeper into a save or near miss compared to skying it into row Z nine times out of ten.

The Moldy Gowl

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Big difference between forcing the keeper into a save or near miss compared to skying it into row Z nine times out of ten.

Not really. Same end result.


Show us him booting it into row z so.

DVDM93

Henry has his say...

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2374152-thierry-henry-explains-why-he-rates-lionel-messi-above-cristiano-ronaldo

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

And yet 2 years in a row, his fellow professionals and coaches have decided that Ronaldo has been the better player, overwhelmingly so.

How is this possible if Messi is on another level completely?

They just got fed up of the same brilliant player getting it every year and wanted change :cool:

Gringo180

CSF wrote: »

And yet 2 years in a row, his fellow professionals and coaches have decided that Ronaldo has been the better player, overwhelmingly so.

How is this possible if Messi is on another level completely?

Nobody is doubting the fact that Ronaldo has been in better form the last season and a half or so. But when both are at there best Messi is on another planet.

kryogen

CSF wrote: »

And yet 2 years in a row, his fellow professionals and coaches have decided that Ronaldo has been the better player, overwhelmingly so.

How is this possible if Messi is on another level completely?

Why would you even bother responding to someone who would state there is no comparison between them?

That my friend is not a rational mind.

MaroonAndGreen

Messi at his best (first-half last night was close) is undoubtedly better than Ronaldo. . I can't see how that can be disputed

kryogen

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Thing is with ronaldo's free kicks is either they smash the net or else nearly fly out of the stadium. They just aren't consistent at all when compared with Messi, Bale, Pirlo, Toure, Suarez etc. Stats can be very misleading at times but it's clear to anyone who watches the game regularly that Ronaldo isn't a great free taker.

Could have sworn I saw Ronaldo take a free kick against Schalke that was heading to the back of the net, but the keeper pulled out a pretty great save instead......thus, the ball neither smashed the net nor almost flew from the stadium.....how odd. Perhaps sometimes something other then what you posted happens?

kryogen

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Messi at his best (first-half last night was close) is undoubtedly better than Ronaldo. . I can't see how that can be disputed

John O Shea at his best (that time against Jonville) is undoutbtedly better then both tbh, that is certainly not up for debate.

That miss from Messi confirmed he has lost it.

He's on the slide

DVDM93

Where is this other planet people keep speaking of? Is Messi the only inhabitant? I'd take my own planet ahead of a Ballon D'or any day tbh.

kryogen

rarnes1 wrote: »

That miss from Messi confirmed he has lost it.

He's on the slide

Looked a shadow of his former self alright, may as well just hang his boots up. He won't ever get close to replicating what JOSH did that time against Jonville anyway

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

Looked a shadow of his former self alright, may as well just hang his boots up. He won't ever get close to replicating what JOSH did that time against Jonville anyway

They don't know who Jonville are or the certain set of challenges they pose to teams, only we do.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Suarez is a better free taker

Rayne Wooney

And Rooney is better than Suarez too, Toure best from the lot

kryogen

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They don't know who Jonville are or the certain set of challenges they pose to teams, only we do.

A special club, I only played half a season for them but still managed to win player of the year. This is not a testament to my own ability rather a shocking insight into how poor they were that year.

(Not how I will tell the story of my POTY award when Im old obviously)

Billy86

Gringo180 wrote: »

Nobody is doubting the fact that Ronaldo has been in better form the last season and a half or so. But when both are at there best Messi is on another planet.

The same argument can be made that no player in the history of the game has had a better setup around them than Messi did in his best years at Barca. At the same time he was looking so impressive for them, he was quite underwhelming for the most part internationally while his teammates were every bit as dominant for Spain as they had been at club level for Barca.

Liam O

Messi has been unreal this year tbf, just the kind of swing the Ronaldo haters were waiting on to call the player who has been (slightly) worse the last 2 seasons the better player.

Are there Ronaldo haters here ? Or Messi haters?

I would think most people that post here can appreciate both players. They might have a preference for one but I doubt they actually hate the other.

That's pre puberty stuff surely!

Iused2likebusts

Billy86 wrote: »

The same argument can be made that no player in the history of the game has had a better setup around them than Messi did in his best years at Barca. At the same time he was looking so impressive for them, he was quite underwhelming for the most part internationally while his teammates were every bit as dominant for Spain as they had been at club level for Barca.

This argument and the Messi needs to leave barca and do it at another club are two of the most ridiculous arguments I've read on the soccer forum.

CSF

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

This argument and the Messi needs to leave barca and do it at another club are two of the most ridiculous arguments I've read on the soccer forum.

I dunno. The fact that Ronaldo has eaten up 2 different leagues and won the Champions League with 2 different styles of football certainly is to his advantage.

The suggestion isn't that if Messi donned a Man United or Chelsea jersey, that he would suddenly lose his Magic powers and be unable to kick a ball. Merely that Ronaldo has a proven track record of adaptability and still performing to his crazy elite level, whereas we've never seen Messi perform to his Barca level in Argentina colours or anywhere else.

Whether we consider there to be an onus of proof on Messi to maintain that Ronaldo/Messi elite level at a team other than Barca or not, that is open to individual interpretation. But to date, he has not done that.

Dirty Dingus McGee

CSF wrote: »

I dunno. The fact that Ronaldo has eaten up 2 different leagues and won the Champions League with 2 different styles of football certainly is to his advantage.

The suggestion isn't that if Messi donned a Man United or Chelsea jersey, that he would suddenly lose his Magic powers and be unable to kick a ball. Merely that Ronaldo has a proven track record of adaptability and still performing to his crazy elite level, whereas we've never seen Messi perform to his Barca level in Argentina colours or anywhere else.

Whether we consider there to be an onus of proof on Messi to maintain that Ronaldo/Messi elite level at a team other than Barca or not, that is open to individual interpretation. But to date, he has not done that.

Would you make the same argument about Paul Scholes,Ryan Giggs,Paolo Maldini,Franco Baresi etc.

I would say it's actually more difficult to maintain incredibly high standards while being a one club man as most players would probably get comfortable/bored playing with the one club and let their standards drop.

bucketybuck

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I would say it's actually more difficult to maintain incredibly high standards while being a one club man as most players would probably get comfortable/bored playing with the one club and let their standards drop.

Its nothing to do with being a one club man, everything to do with having perhaps the greatest club midfield of all time putting things on a plate for you. The advantages to playing in a team like that are undeniable.

Whether you like it or not it is a valid question relating to Messi's career.

CSF

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Would you make the same argument about Paul Scholes,Ryan Giggs,Paolo Maldini,Franco Baresi etc.

I would say it's actually more difficult to maintain incredibly high standards while being a one club man as most players would probably get comfortable/bored playing with the one club and let their standards drop.

I don't think any of those players come into the best player of all time conversation. They were all great players, but we generally acknowledge there were better players than those. With Ronaldo or Messi, they're not fighting to be one of the great players, that much is a given.

The Ronaldo/Messi fight is between 2 players who have destroyed all notions of what a great player previously was, and in my opinion, the guy who finishes their career the more accomplished of the 2 will go down as the greatest player of all-time.

So obviously the parameters of judgement are much stricter between 2 almost perfect players, than we'd use for Scholes or Giggs. It is a given that both Ronaldo and Messi have been significantly better than both players.

Iused2likebusts

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its nothing to do with being a one club man, everything to do with having perhaps the greatest club midfield of all time putting things on a plate for you. The advantages to playing in a team like that are undeniable.

Whether you like it or not it is a valid question relating to Messi's career.

You make it out like all Messi ' goals are tap ins. His general play is what imo makes him a better player than ronaldo. Messi has been great this year and a lot of the time xavi and iniesta haven't been on the pitch. I can understand if people prefer ronaldo buy this argument makes no sense ronaldo also plays with unbelievable players. As for the one team thing Messi has been at Barca 10 odd years he has played under numerous managers and the dynamic of the team changes every year with different players coming in and going out. Scholes was a 1 team man playing in the dominant team in the league does it tarnish his reputation not for me it doesn't. John Barnes was brilliant for Liverpool never reproduced that form for England again it doesn't diminish his reputation for me.

bucketybuck

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

You make it out like all Messi ' goals are tap ins.

No I didn't.

Iused2likebusts

bucketybuck wrote: »

No I didn't.

Putting things on a plate for you would indicate that to me.

The_Kew_Tour

They're both ****.

Close thread.