Messi Or Ronaldo?

Liam O

kfallon wrote: »

There's not a whole lot between Messi & Ronaldo tbh (I have no allegiance to either), both are genuinely great players who it's a privilege to watch,.

But I don't think either could have played the career of Maradona and done it better!

It depends, they both probably would have scored more goals. Messi can do anything Maradona could and still score more goals too. Ronaldo has the size and strength advantage so would probably play differently back then. Maradona was fantastic, Messi and Ronaldo have Gerd Muller type goalscoring with Maradona level skills in other areas which elevates them imo.

FatherTed

The main difference between Messi and Maradona is simply Maradona won the WC for Argentina. Messi couldn't last year. I know, different eras, different teams but still if Argentina had won the WC last year, it would have been Messi's ultimate crowning as best ever. He just never had that one defining moment in the final. Maybe he'll do it in 2018 but last year was his best chance.

Andersonisgod

FatherTed wrote: »

The main difference between Messi and Maradona is simply Maradona won the WC for Argentina. Messi couldn't last year. I know, different eras, different teams but still if Argentina had won the WC last year, it would have been Messi's ultimate crowning as best ever. He just never had that one defining moment in the final. Maybe he'll do it in 2018 but last year was his best chance.

Lets just completely blank out Messi's defining Champions League final and semi finals moments.....

Iused2likebusts

FatherTed wrote: »

The main difference between Messi and Maradona is simply Maradona won the WC for Argentina. Messi couldn't last year. I know, different eras, different teams but still if Argentina had won the WC last year, it would have been Messi's ultimate crowning as best ever. He just never had that one defining moment in the final. Maybe he'll do it in 2018 but last year was his best chance.

It's nonsense to judge a player on one game of their entire career. Or in this instance compare Maradona and Messi as maradonas argentina managed to beat Germany in a one off game and Messi's argentina didn't.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

Messi can do anything Maradona could and still score more goals too.

Pretty much single handedly take a team to the greatest prize in football?

Ooooooooh I don't think so!

I also don't think he would have shipped anything like a fraction of the quantity or type of tackles Maradona took over his career.

Andersonisgod

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty much single handedly take a team to the greatest prize in football?

Ooooooooh I don't think so!

I also don't think he would have shipped anything like a fraction of the quantity or type of tackles Maradona took over his career.

It's not as though Messi doesn't come on for special treatment, I think everyone remembers how Mourinho deployed Pepe and co. to stamp him out of games.
The counter argument is that Maradona never came up against the type of tactics we see today, those packed defences that Messi faces every other week, the two man marking ect. Also the players Messi plays against every week are immensely better athletes too.

FatherTed

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Lets just completely blank out Messi's defining Champions League final and semi finals moments.....

I'm not excluding Messi's CL achievements? He's been brilliant in the CL.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

It's nonsense to judge a player on one game of their entire career. Or in this instance compare Maradona and Messi as maradonas argentina managed to beat Germany in a one off game and Messi's argentina didn't.

Why is it nonsense not to take the biggest tournament of your career into account? Argentina won the WC in 1986 with an average team because of Maradona. They didn't win it last year with Messi.

All I'm saying is that people will always compare Messi and Maradona because they're from the same country. You don't hear people comparing Ronaldo with Maradona for instance. It's always Messi-Maradona. So when you compare the two you have to take into account what they did for their Argentina and this is where Messi falls a bit short. Talk to an Argentinian and they'll say 'but Maradona won the Copa Mundial'.

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

And it's clear to see the posters that didn't see Maradona week in, week out and not for a few games every 4 years.

Yes, you.

How old were you watching him.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's not as though Messi doesn't come on for special treatment, I think everyone remembers how Mourinho deployed Pepe and co. to stamp him out of games.

When did anyone purposely break Messi's leg and then frame the boot that did it?

tayto lover

Can't believe that there are still posters who believe Ronaldo is better than Messi.

Andersonisgod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yes, you.

How old were you watching him.

Odd then how we never hear about Maradona's sterling club form? We don't because the people who want to belittle Messi know that that's an impossible argument to win. Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate. For Maradona they highlight international form because his club form and goal record pale to that of Messi's, for Ronaldo nobody mentions his international form and they only talk in terms of goals. As much goalpost-shifting that goes on in these things there's simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate.

That sound completely made up, a sort of "I'm right because I'm right and I'm just going to pluck some made up stat from thin air to prove how right I am". Could you give us any old go at the numbers you are talking about, or do you want to reflect on how silly it sounds?

Andersonisgod wrote: »

...simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

I love it when people get more and more definite with their opinion and blur it with objective qualities - "it is inevitable that you must agree with me"...:D:D

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Odd then how we never hear about Maradona's sterling club form? We don't because the people who want to belittle Messi know that that's an impossible argument to win. Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate. For Maradona they highlight international form because his club form and goal record pale to that of Messi's, for Ronaldo nobody mentions his international form and they only talk in terms of goals. As much goalpost-shifting that goes on in these things there's simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

Taking a relegation battling team to the best in Serie A? Everyone's heard of it ffs :rolleyes:

I find it hard to imagine Messi going to a Cordoba and winning the league within 3 seasons tbh!

Andersonisgod

Deleted User wrote: »

That sound completely made up, a sort of "I'm right because I'm right and I'm just going to pluck some made up stat from thin air to prove how right I am". Could you give us any old go at the numbers you are talking about, or do you want to reflect on how silly it sounds?



I love it when people get more and more definite with their opinion and blur it with objective qualities - "it is inevitable that you must agree with me"...:D:D

I cant because, as most know, I'm not a great believer of stats, what I am saying though is that certain posters on here are happy to trot out stats when it suits them and then, at other times, disregard stats when it suits them. My position does not change, you cannot judge a player solely on stats, to see Messi is to see beauty and beauty cannot be interpreted through numbers.

You are the person who is claiming that Messi can't be as great because of one single match though? I'd like it noted that I like Maradona, but I think inevitably in these debates nostalgia kicks into overdrive. By what criteria do you believe Maradona to be a better player? More trophies? No. More consistent? Absolutely not. Greater emotional attachment to the flawed hero Maradona than to the relatively shy and retiring Messi? Probably yes. At the end of the day I have to question how many people can claim that they actually watched Maradona each week in full 90 minute games, because I am convinced that people watched the 86 World Cup and have just filled in the blanks around that, they've created a kind of Golem. You can't do that with Messi because every time he steps onto a pitch it's televised, you see it before your eyes, there's no room for creative freedom in this day and age.

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

Taking a relegation battling team to the best in Serie A? Everyone's heard of it ffs :rolleyes:

I find it hard to imagine Messi going to a Cordoba and winning the league within 3 seasons tbh!

The eras are rather different wouldn't you say? Afterall today you are competing with these super squads that the biggest clubs put together. That's a ludicrous criteria to judge it on.

I'd equally say, take Messi out of this Barcelona team, put Maradona into it and suddenly Barcelona get weaker.

Nalz

which is worse? Admitting you're voting no to the change to the constitution in the latest referendum, or that you prefer Ronaldo even after last night?

Liam O

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't believe that there are still posters who believe Ronaldo is better than Messi.

He is better at some things, Messi is better at others. They both have similar records and are hard to split for me. Ronaldo has played in some very good-great teams, Messi has played in the best team of all time. I think Ronaldo is a bigger reason for Madrid's (admittedly less) success during his time there than Messi for Barca. Ronaldo has been better the last 2 seasons anyway, or is that somehow being redacted now?

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The eras are rather different wouldn't you say? Afterall today you are competing with these super squads that the biggest clubs put together. That's a ludicrous criteria to judge it on.

Ever see the AC Milan team of that era??? The one that Napoli beat to the Championship twice?

Maradona would run amok in the Barca teams Messi has played in, the only thing 'ludicrous' here is that you can't see it!

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Odd then how we never hear about Maradona's sterling club form? We don't because the people who want to belittle Messi know that that's an impossible argument to win. Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate. For Maradona they highlight international form because his club form and goal record pale to that of Messi's, for Ronaldo nobody mentions his international form and they only talk in terms of goals. As much goalpost-shifting that goes on in these things there's simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

Maradona never played in a team of superstars at International or club level. He pretty much won Seria A titles for Napoli on his own and won a World Cup for his country the same way.

He played in a time where players could kick lumps out of you but he still managed to win games for the teams he played for.

Maradona is the greatest footballer of my lifetime. I cannot speak about Best and Pele because they were both past their peak before I was old enough to have an opinion.

Messi is the greatest player of his generation at club leve but he has never performed near that level in a big game with his country and he has only ever played for one club. He scores lots of goals but so does Ronaldo.

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I cant because, as most know, I'm not a great believer of stats, what I am saying though is that certain posters on here are happy to trot out stats when it suits them and then, at other times, disregard stats when it suits them. My position does not change, you cannot judge a player solely on stats, to see Messi is to see beauty and beauty cannot be interpreted through numbers.

You are the person who is claiming that Messi can't be as great because of one single match though? I'd like it noted that I like Maradona, but I think inevitably in these debates nostalgia kicks into overdrive. By what criteria do you believe Maradona to be a better player? More trophies? No. More consistent? Absolutely not. Greater emotional attachment to the flawed hero Maradona than to the relatively shy and retiring Messi? Probably yes. At the end of the day I have to question how many people can claim that they actually watched Maradona each week in full 90 minute games, because I am convinced that people watched the 86 World Cup and have just filled in the blanks around that, they've created a kind of Golem. You can't do that with Messi because every time he steps onto a pitch it's televised, you see it before your eyes, there's no room for creative freedom in this day and age.

Messi is not shy and retiring. He's probably in more adverts than anyone in sport.

inforfun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vashrNoXTE

Maradonna did this before a match against Bayern. Messi didnt.

End of discussion

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

Ever see the AC Milan team of that era??? The one that Napoli beat to the Championship twice?

Maradona would run amok in the Barca teams Messi has played in, the only thing 'ludicrous' here is that you can't see it!

This has become slightly too bizarre for me. It's a great AC Milan side, though again I would suggest that teams in that era were closer together than they are now, it's difficult to compare eras but we live in one now where a team can bench a 60 million pound player and act like it doesn't mean a great deal. The big clubs have become far greater as a result of being able to stockpile massive squads with massive talent. That, the relatively small, Atletico Madrid managed to win the league in an era like this is an incredible achievement, I'd argue a greater one than that of Maradona's Napoli side.

Again I could go into detail about how Maradona was at Barcelona (admittedly it was a different team then) and didn't make a great impact, or how Messi has been honed since he was a teenage kid to play in this Barcelona team, to play this way and I would say that there is not another person on the planet who could adequately replace him, but I wont because I fear it would be a waste of time.

I'll simply conclude some people are happy to live in the past, others can look at the past and they see Messi, they look at the present and they see Messi and they look into the future and all you can see is Messi.

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I cant because, as most know, I'm not a great believer of stats

:D

Could you give us the number of people who know how you roll at least?

Ah go on, I want to know is it a majority of Boards users or just most who post in the football forum!

Andersonisgod wrote: »

to see Messi is to see beauty and beauty cannot be interpreted through numbers.

The word Maradona could be changed for Messi and...that sentence would still sound inane and meaningless.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

At the end of the day I have to question how many people can claim that they actually watched Maradona each week in full 90 minute games, because I am convinced that people watched the 86 World Cup and have just filled in the blanks around that, they've created a kind of Golem. You can't do that with Messi because every time he steps onto a pitch it's televised, you see it before your eyes, there's no room for creative freedom in this day and age.

Why do you not account for all those who watched Italian football in the 80s? That was the time when Maradona did not just take a club to the top, a club that had a very bare trophy cabinet, but he took a whole region - Napoli being the first club from the entire south of Italy to win the title. As you say, Messi has a tv camera aimed at everything he does, which of course helps him greatly in any consideration of the two.

fryup

ronaldo has got no class he's a self centred prick, his celebration at last years champions league final was testament to that

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

Messi is not shy and retiring. He's probably in more adverts than anyone in sport.

obviously I meant his characteristics are that of someone who is quite reserved, that's backed up with practically every quote you could find of people talking about him as a person. Apparently he is a fun loving guy once you get to know him but here's a kid who was brought from Rosario to Barcelona at a young age, leaving his family behind, who cried in La Masia and who was initially bullied a bit. He's never really changed. He does adverts, rightly so given his incredible profile, but this isn't someone who seeks fame, rather this is someone who has had fame thrust upon him because of his extraordinary talent. He's a kid who, playing in the underage teams, had Pique to back him up and fight his corner. Equally though he's incredibly brave, he'll take on the greatest responsibility of a team, and he's a fierce competitor, at heart Messi is a champion.

Nalz

fryup wrote: »

ronaldo has got no class he's a self centred prick

oh give it a flucking rest Eamo

Iused2likebusts

FatherTed wrote: »

I'm not excluding Messi's CL achievements? He's been brilliant in the CL.


Why is it nonsense not to take the biggest tournament of your career into account? Argentina won the WC in 1986 with an average team because of Maradona. They didn't win it last year with Messi.

All I'm saying is that people will always compare Messi and Maradona because they're from the same country. You don't hear people comparing Ronaldo with Maradona for instance. It's always Messi-Maradona. So when you compare the two you have to take into account what they did for their Argentina and this is where Messi falls a bit short. Talk to an Argentinian and they'll say 'but Maradona won the Copa Mundial'.

all I'm saying in that one game if Messi takes his chance at 0 0 against Germany they probably win the world cup it's small margins and not something I'd bring into the discussion when comparing the two. Even if Argentina won the last WC you still couldn't compare what Messi did in 2014 compared to Maradona in 86 as that was a magical month in maradonas career.

RasTa

GOAT



Messi might over take him but not yet.

Andersonisgod

Deleted User wrote: »

:D

Could you give us the number of people who know how you roll at least?

Ah go on, I want to know is it a majority of Boards users or just most who post in the football forum!



The word Maradona could be changed for Messi and...that sentence would still sound inane and meaningless.



Why do you not account for all those who watched Italian football in the 80s? That was the time when Maradona did not just take a club to the top, a club that had a very bare trophy cabinet, but he took a whole region - Napoli being the first club from the entire south of Italy to win the title. As you say, Messi has a tv camera aimed at everything he does, which of course helps him greatly in any consideration of the two.

I've said it enough times during the Messi/Ronaldo debates that I'd assume everyone with internet access in Ireland, and parts of the UK, are aware of it by now.

Perhaps it would, again, I'm not anti Maradona.

Well because, unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe that you lived in Italy in the 80's or that you were a regular at Napoli games in the 80's. Am I wrong?

Liam O

fryup wrote: »

ronaldo has got no class he's a self centred prick, his celebration at last years champions league final was testament to that

Yes, let's ignore the millions of Euro given to charity and call him a prick for celebrating a Champions League final win. I personally would have refused to celebrate winning the CL.

fryup

yes, but its the way he did it, its all about him not the team

even a few weeks back during the QF when Hernandez scored, Ronaldo celebrated on his own as if he scored the goal himself, he's got an ego the size of an elephants arse...you don't get that with Messi

Ulysses Gaze

Andersonisgod wrote: »

This has become slightly too bizarre for me. It's a great AC Milan side, though again I would suggest that teams in that era were closer together than they are now, it's difficult to compare eras but we live in one now where a team can bench a 60 million pound player and act like it doesn't mean a great deal. The big clubs have become far greater as a result of being able to stockpile massive squads with massive talent. That, the relatively small, Atletico Madrid managed to win the league in an era like this is an incredible achievement, I'd argue a greater one than that of Maradona's Napoli side.

Again I could go into detail about how Maradona was at Barcelona (admittedly it was a different team then) and didn't make a great impact, or how Messi has been honed since he was a teenage kid to play in this Barcelona team, to play this way and I would say that there is not another person on the planet who could adequately replace him, but I wont because I fear it would be a waste of time.

I'll simply conclude some people are happy to live in the past, others can look at the past and they see Messi, they look at the present and they see Messi and they look into the future and all you can see is Messi.

I don't normally find myself disagreeing with you AIG, but here I do.

Serie A at the time was home to the best defenders in the World when Maradona was playing and Milan were backed by the equivalent today of a Sheikh in Belusconi. Juventus were backed by Fiat and the Agnelli family who were incredibly wealthy. Atleti did well last season, but have fallen away this season. Napoli finished 1 2 2 1 in 4 seasons from 1987 to 1990 and won the Coppa Italia and the UEFA Cup as well. Now bear in mind that the old UEFA Cup had some pretty huge European teams in it when Napoli won it (as only one team in from each country qualified for the European Cup (unlike today). Napoli beat Juve and Bayern before playing Stuttgart

Maradona was pitting his skills against real world class defenders like Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini, Costacurta, Passarella etc. these were REAL defenders - not like Sergio Ramos and Pepe. I grew up watching Serie A games at the time and watched Maradona do to the ones I mentioned what Messi did to Boateng last night regularly.

Maradona did not have a great time at Barcelona. Apart from falling out with Udo Lattek and then Nunez, he also was out for extended times with a) Hepatitis and b) A broken ankle.

I don't like the GOAT debate and I think between the two, Messi and Maradona, the difference is so small that the debate is meaningless.

I am just glad I've been alive to see the two of them play.

kfallon

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I don't normally find myself disagreeing with you AIG, but here I do.

Serie A at the time was home to the best defenders in the World when Maradona was playing and Milan were backed by the equivalent today of a Sheikh in Belusconi. Juventus were backed by Fiat and the Agnelli family who were incredibly wealthy. Atleti did well last season, but have fallen away this season. Napoli finished 1 2 2 1 in 4 seasons from 1987 to 1990 and won the Coppa Italia and the UEFA Cup as well. Now bear in mind that the old UEFA Cup had some pretty huge European teams in it when Napoli won it (as only one team in from each country qualified for the European Cup (unlike today). Napoli beat Juve and Bayern before playing Stuttgart

Maradona was pitting his skills against real world class defenders like Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini, Costacurta, Passarella etc. these were REAL defenders - not like Sergio Ramos and Pepe. I grew up watching Serie A games at the time and watched Maradona do to the ones I mentioned what Messi did to Boateng last night regularly.

Maradona did not have a great time at Barcelona. Apart from falling out with Udo Lattek and then Nunez, he also was out for extended times with a) Hepatitis and b) A broken ankle.

I don't like the GOAT debate and I think between the two, Messi and Maradona, the difference is so small that the debate is meaningless.

I am just glad I've been alive to see the two of them play.

A fantastic post *applauds*

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I've said it enough times during the Messi/Ronaldo debates that I'd assume everyone with internet access in Ireland, and parts of the UK, are aware of it by now.

Have to put my hands up and concede I had never heard of your views on Messi and Ronaldo. How would most people with internet access know them?

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well because, unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe that you lived in Italy in the 80's or that you were a regular at Napoli games in the 80's. Am I wrong?

And I also didn't know you lived in Spain and go to Barca games. But if you do, fair enough, you are correct that I didn't live in Naples in the late 80s. But we had televisions, and Italian football was just about the most exotic thing we saw at the time.

Liam O

fryup wrote: »

yes, but its the way he did it, its all about him not the team

even a few weeks back during the QF when Hernandez scored, Ronaldo celebrated on his own as if he scored the goal himself, he's got an ego the size of an elephants arse...you don't get that with Messi

I love how people still think this...bless.

Messi has as big an ego as Ronaldo, you have to really to achieve what they have. They have 80,000 odd people cheering their goals every week, hardly the stuff for someone who's not an egotist.

Backstreet Moyes

fryup wrote: »

yes, but its the way he did it, its all about him not the team

even a few weeks back during the QF when Hernandez scored, Ronaldo celebrated on his own as if he scored the goal himself, he's got an ego the size of an elephants arse...you don't get that with Messi

/
Is this the same fella who tried to get his manager sacked earlier on this year?

Ulysses Gaze

Liam O wrote: »

I love how people still think this...bless.

Messi has as big an ego as Ronaldo, you have to really to achieve what they have. They have 80,000 odd people cheering their goals every week, hardly the stuff for someone who's not an egotist.

A brand wanting to sell a product hypes up the face of the new product?

Really....

Turtwig

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I don't normally find myself disagreeing with you AIG, but here I do.

:eek: You agree with AIG a lot?


Anyway, Messi and Ronaldo, played in a different generation to Maradona. In that way, Ronaldo in particular, are better athletes than he was. That's really the only the thing you can compare. Their fitness levels. Anything else is just apples to oranges. Both played very different games if we're being honest.

Heck, comparing Messi to Ronaldo is like comparing Neuer to Iniesta. They're very different players.

Messi is the more complete player but that doesn't make him the best player. If it did, how would we ever have a defender or goalkeeper the best player in the world? Messi's role on the pitch and Ronaldo's role are very different. Can we just accept that and concentrate on watching two geniuses at worth.

For what it's worth. I prefer Messi. Ronaldo's selfish and petulance makes him harder to like. It doesn't detract from his quality or skill though and I think some people do use that petulance to bias against him.

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Odd then how we never hear about Maradona's sterling club form? We don't because the people who want to belittle Messi know that that's an impossible argument to win. Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate. For Maradona they highlight international form because his club form and goal record pale to that of Messi's, for Ronaldo nobody mentions his international form and they only talk in terms of goals. As much goalpost-shifting that goes on in these things there's simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

Oh my, thats too funny! :pac:

Billy86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Odd then how we never hear about Maradona's sterling club form? We don't because the people who want to belittle Messi know that that's an impossible argument to win. Most of the time those talking up Maradona in these debates are the same people who talk up Ronaldo in that other debate. For Maradona they highlight international form because his club form and goal record pale to that of Messi's, for Ronaldo nobody mentions his international form and they only talk in terms of goals. As much goalpost-shifting that goes on in these things there's simply no way to avoid the inevitable, you are watching the greatest player ever right now and he wears the number 10 for Barcelona.

Pele.

But un honesty, trying to label a 'best ever' player is pointless. There are a few guys from Pele, to Maradona, to Beckenbauer and possibly Cruyff or Di Stefano who opinion ions will always differ on. Ronaldo and Messi are both already in, or if not then certainly on the very cusp of, being in that list too.

Billy86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The eras are rather different wouldn't you say? Afterall today you are competing with these super squads that the biggest clubs put together. That's a ludicrous criteria to judge it on.

I'd equally say, take Messi out of this Barcelona team, put Maradona into it and suddenly Barcelona get weaker.

1980s Serie A is widely regarded to be one of if not the most difficult league to succeed in as an attacking player in the history of the game.

Andersonisgod

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I don't normally find myself disagreeing with you AIG, but here I do.

Serie A at the time was home to the best defenders in the World when Maradona was playing and Milan were backed by the equivalent today of a Sheikh in Belusconi. Juventus were backed by Fiat and the Agnelli family who were incredibly wealthy. Atleti did well last season, but have fallen away this season. Napoli finished 1 2 2 1 in 4 seasons from 1987 to 1990 and won the Coppa Italia and the UEFA Cup as well. Now bear in mind that the old UEFA Cup had some pretty huge European teams in it when Napoli won it (as only one team in from each country qualified for the European Cup (unlike today). Napoli beat Juve and Bayern before playing Stuttgart

Maradona was pitting his skills against real world class defenders like Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini, Costacurta, Passarella etc. these were REAL defenders - not like Sergio Ramos and Pepe. I grew up watching Serie A games at the time and watched Maradona do to the ones I mentioned what Messi did to Boateng last night regularly.

Maradona did not have a great time at Barcelona. Apart from falling out with Udo Lattek and then Nunez, he also was out for extended times with a) Hepatitis and b) A broken ankle.

I don't like the GOAT debate and I think between the two, Messi and Maradona, the difference is so small that the debate is meaningless.

I am just glad I've been alive to see the two of them play.

I honestly won't, and can't, argue with most of those very well made points.

It really is tough to argue different eras. I'd never dispute the quality of Serie A in those years, though I do think Atletico winning one La Liga title title is every bit the achievement of Napoli's just because of the eye watering amount of money pumped into the squads of the big two and because of the ridiculous amount of talent both of those large squads contain.

My view on defending is that it has had to change how it is done in line with how the game has changed, that being there's less physical contact now, the change in the offside law has had a massive impact on how defenders defend these days and also changes in tactical trends. I'd simply say that Nesta, Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini ext. are beasts of their era, greats of the game no doubt but I do think great defenders today get a raw deal when compared to these greats because how they must defend is different. Anyway I've gone off track here.

Genuinely I don't think there's a great deal between them, my preference is Messi but I think it's a far more worthy debate than Messi/Ronaldo anyway.

Liam O

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A brand wanting to sell a product hypes up the face of the new product?

Really....

Are you saying that Messi is not egotistical? Despite the quotes from teammates that say it and certain stories that have come out in the last couple of years?

Turtwig wrote: »

:eek: You agree with AIG a lot?


Anyway, Messi and Ronaldo, played in a different generation to Maradona. In that way, Ronaldo in particular, are better athletes than he was. That's really the only the thing you can compare. Their fitness levels. Anything else is just apples to oranges. Both played very different games if we're being honest.

Heck, comparing Messi to Ronaldo is like comparing Neuer to Iniesta. They're very different players.

Messi is the more complete player but that doesn't make him the best player. If it did, how would we ever have a defender or goalkeeper the best player in the world? Messi's role on the pitch and Ronaldo's role are very different. Can we just accept that and concentrate on watching two geniuses at worth.

For what it's worth. I prefer Messi. Ronaldo's selfish and petulance makes him harder to like. It doesn't detract from his quality or skill though and I think some people do use that petulance to bias against him.

This is a great post.

Ulysses Gaze

Liam O wrote: »

Are you saying that Messi is not egotistical? Despite the quotes from teammates that say it and certain stories that have come out in the last couple of years?

No. Every true great has an ego. Even Pele, now in his 70's, still harps on about being the best!

Ulysses Gaze

Billy86 wrote: »

Pele.

But un honesty, trying to label a 'best ever' player is pointless. There are a few guys from Pele, to Maradona, to Beckenbauer and possibly Cruyff or Di Stefano who opinion ions will always differ on. Ronaldo and Messi are both already in, or if not then certainly on the very cusp of, being in that list too.

This.

My Uncle swears that Di Stefano and Nandor Hidegkuti were the the best. My father believes it's Pele and Best. Can you leave out Cruyff? The social impact he had at Barca equals Maradona's at Napoli (more so given they heeded his advice on developing La Masia). Garrincha? Zidane? Ronaldo (R9)? And that's just attackers....

Bohrio

Liam O wrote: »

Are you saying that Messi is not egotistical? Despite the quotes from teammates that say it and certain stories that have come out in the last couple of years?

All those stories about Messi doing this, saying this, etc are just rumors... and with this I mean there is no evidence of any of this (although I am not saying it isnt true).

However, in regards Ronaldo's behavior well, everyone has seen it, its out there, never celebrates team mates goals, he even gets angry if a team mate scores if he had the opportunity of doing it as well.

This doesnt look good, however, I blame it all on competitiveness and being very immature and spoiled, not being evil as some people put it

Anyway your man Anderson said it already, this started as a thread between Ronaldo and Messi and it has turned into a Messi and Maradona talk (which I believe is a much more logical comparison rather than comparing Ronaldo and Messi).

I also agree they are two different players, and comparing a team back in the 80s is like comparing cars back in the 80s compared to cars nowadays... we could go all day and never really agree to anything

Go back even further if you want, try to get di stefano to play nowadays, or schiaffino for that matter... both considered best players of their era, but probably, nowadays, wouldn't perform as well as they did back then

Cienciano

inforfun wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vashrNoXTE

Maradonna did this before a match against Bayern. Messi didnt.

End of discussion

This is an overused phrase, but christ, he makes that look easy.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Now bear in mind that the old UEFA Cup had some pretty huge European teams in it when Napoli won it

The uefa cup used to be a far better competition than the european cup.

bucketybuck

Bohrio wrote: »

this started as a thread between Ronaldo and Messi and it has turned into a Messi and Maradona talk (which I believe is a much more logical comparison rather than comparing Ronaldo and Messi).

Its a logical comparison in fairness, both greats, both Argentinian, both played for Barcelona, both associated with drugs, they were always going to get compared.

Ulysses Gaze

Cienciano wrote: »

This is an overused phrase, but christ, he makes that look easy.



The uefa cup used to be a far better competition than the european cup.

Great quote from Klinsmann on the Video. He was playing for Stuttgart that day

“There were 70,000 people in the stadium and Maradona went on the field. We’re on the other side of the field, warming up like Germans: seriously, focused. …

“There’s music playing, the song 'Live is Life,' and to the rhythm of the song Maradona started juggling the ball. So we stopped our warm-up. What’s this guy doing? He’s juggling off his shoulders. And we couldn’t warm up anymore because we had to watch this guy."

inforfun

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Great quote from Klinsmann on the Video. He was playing for Stuttgart that day

Maybe he repeated it against Stuttgart for the final (which were still home/away affairs in those days)
But i definitely saw him doing it in the semis vs Bayern.

Since warming ups are never live on tv, it is thanks to a belgian commentator, Frank Raes, in the stadium that the clip was saved.
He saw what was happening and made sure he got a copy