Messi Or Ronaldo?

Talib Fiasco

Nuts102 wrote: »

I have seen several people who are neither on this thread yes.

Name 5

bucketybuck

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Name 5

No, name 10!!!

MaroonAndGreen

Bohrio wrote:

Yes thats exactly my point, there is no need for him tto throw all penalties, and even free kicks, I believe he hasnt score a single free kick in the last 50 something attempts?

Am I the only one who has never heard someone describe it as "throwing" a penalty before???

Unearthly

Bohrio wrote: »

Yes thats exactly my point, there is no need for him tto throw all penalties, and even free kicks, I believe he hasnt score a single free kick in the last 50 something attempts?

Have you seen James doing free kicks? He is pretty impressive... or even Bale (he certainly cannot do any worse)

Actually I read somewhere that Ronaldos last goal from a free kick was against Bayern in april 2014?

His problem is his obsession with being the best is clouding his judgement and neg affect his team and makes him lose his temper (I still remember when he told Real Madrid fans F... you when they were shouting against him). There are times you will think he is more worried about scoring a goal than winning the game

I agree with you about free kicks but I think he should take all penalties. His record is very good. Could you imagine if someone else took a penalty and missed. Anarchy

chopperbyrne

Cienciano wrote: »

Is there anyone who isn't a man-u fan, real Madrid fan or Portuguese think ronaldo is better than messi?

Yes.

Giggsy11

Bohrio wrote: »

Yes thats exactly my point, there is no need for him tto throw all penalties, and even free kicks, I believe he hasnt score a single free kick in the last 50 something attempts?

If someone else takes penalty(when Ronaldo is on the field) and misses then there are people like you who would be calling him a coward for not stepping up.

Backstreet Moyes

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Name 5

Two off the top of my head LuckylLyold and CSF and now chopperbyrne i am sure if you want to read back through 94 pages you will find a fair few more.

ahnowbrowncow

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Yes.

Ok I'll rephrase it for him.

Is there anyone who isn't a man-u fan, real Madrid fan, Portuguese or delusional think Ronaldo is better than Messi?

Liam O

Is there anyone here not a Liverpool fan, Barca fan, Spanish, Irish or English or from Europe who thinks Messi is better? #CaseClosed.

Talib Fiasco

Liam O wrote: »

Is there anyone here not a Liverpool fan, Barca fan, Spanish, Irish or English or from Europe who thinks Messi is better? #CaseClosed.

Yeah I am Australian

Backstreet Moyes

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Yeah I am Australian

Messi went on holiday to Australia when he was 10 and said it was lovely so you are obviously biased.

Talib Fiasco

Nuts102 wrote: »

Messi went on holiday to Australia when he was 10 and said it was lovely so you are obviously biased.

I hate tourists who invade my beautiful country so the opposite would be true

Cienciano

CSF wrote: »

Eh Messi has been afforded a huge amount extra space based on the fact that it's now Suarez and Neymar either side of him, rather than Pedro and Villa. I mean every team would want to treble mark a player of Messi's quality, but you can't really do it as effectively when those other 2 are almost as likely to punish you. Easily the best front 3 I think football is ever likely to see. That isn't a slight on Messi. He has been a phenomenal player longer than Suarez and Neymar have been there. But it helps.

Brazil 1970 had Tostao and Pele up front, with Rivelino and Jarzinho on the wings.

ceegee

Cienciano wrote: »

Brazil 1970 had Tostao and Pele up front, with Rivelino and Jarzinho on the wings.

Pretty loose definition of 3 there

Rayne Wooney

Messi has always played in better teams with better players, it's unarguable at this stage

Messi, Suarez, Neymar and Ronaldo probably make up the top 4 attackers in football, Bale and Benzema in the top 15 maybe

Would love to see Ronaldo do a reverse Figo and join the lads at Barca

posturingpat

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Messi has always played in better teams with better players, it's unarguable at this stage

Messi, Suarez, Neymar and Ronaldo probably make up the top 4 attackers in football, Bale and Benzema in the top 15 maybe

Would love to see Ronaldo do a reverse Figo and join the lads at Barca

As ridiculous as it sounds i doubt they'd have him unless he left his ego at the door. Which i don't think is possible :P

Talib Fiasco

Cienciano wrote: »

Brazil 1970 had Tostao and Pele up front, with Rivelino and Jarzinho on the wings.

I'd also argue that Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Messi was a better front 3 than the current Barca one too.

Backstreet Moyes

posturingpat wrote: »

As ridiculous as it sounds i doubt they'd have him unless he left his ego at the door. Which i don't think is possible :P

The manager has his team built around a player who publicly disrespected him and tried to get him sacked. If he can deal with an ego like that i am sure he could put up with Ronaldo.

posturingpat

Nuts102 wrote: »

The manager has his team built around a player who publicly disrespected him and tried to get him sacked. If he can deal with an ego like that i am sure he could put up with Ronaldo.

A good manager will put up with himself being unhappy rather than his players. I believe Ronaldos ego and greed would not make any teammates happy.

bucketybuck

posturingpat wrote: »

I believe Ronaldos ego and greed would not make any teammates happy.

Yeah, because all of his United and Madrid teammates just hated the guys guts.

posturingpat

No need to take it personally lads unless he's a good buddy? I just beleive he's a little brat and would totally unbalance a front 3 that is working beautifully in tandem.

Backstreet Moyes

posturingpat wrote: »

A good manager will put up with himself being unhappy rather than his players. I believe Ronaldos ego and greed would not make any teammates happy.

Give me a few examples of teammates or former teammates of Ronaldo talking badly about him.

Cienciano

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I'd also argue that Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Messi was a better front 3 than the current Barca one too.

Didn't Brazil have Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho too? A few decent front 3s, I wouldn't be too quick to say Barca's is the best ever.
Haven't seen them play, but Puskas, Kocsis and Hidegkuti for Hungary in the 50's was supposed to be ok too. Madrid had Di Stefano and Puskas at the same time. Throw in any of their other attacking players

posturingpat

Nuts102 wrote: »

Give me a few examples of teammates or former teammates of Ronaldo talking badly about him.

No.

sReq | uTeK

posturingpat wrote: »

A good manager will put up with himself being unhappy rather than his players. I believe Ronaldos ego and greed would not make any teammates happy.

Where do you come up with this stuff...greed and ego? Show me a professional player who doesn't have an ego?? As for greed he could have forced his way out of united but played an additional year and produced his best stuff in a united shirt even when he knew he was off out the door. The guy is a model professional and anyone who had played with him has stated the same. But that's okay you keep believing what dunphy and the rags report.

Also I can see why Barcelona wouldn't want his ego, it's not like the team is built around one egomaniac who publicly bad mouthed his manager and tried to get him sacked... but yea Ronaldo is the villIan. Haha

sReq | uTeK

posturingpat wrote: »

No.

It's okay we didn't expect you to back up your opinion with any facts that remotely showed you weren't talking nonsense

posturingpat

You boys are too easy. Ronaldo's got bad hair too

bucketybuck

Greedy Ronaldo and his recent £5million donation to charity.

Talib Fiasco

Cienciano wrote: »

Didn't Brazil have Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho too? A few decent front 3s, I wouldn't be too quick to say Barca's is the best ever.
Haven't seen them play, but Puskas, Kocsis and Hidegkuti for Hungary in the 50's was supposed to be ok too. Madrid had Di Stefano and Puskas at the same time. Throw in any of their other attacking players

Completely forgot about the 3 R's. :rolleyes:

CSF

Liam O wrote: »

Is there anyone here not a Liverpool fan, Barca fan, Spanish, Irish or English or from Europe who thinks Messi is better? #CaseClosed.

Don't forget those pesky Asians.

Skylinehead

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I'd also argue that Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Messi was a better front 3 than the current Barca one too.

Ronaldinho and Messi were never that good together, by the time Messi was the machine he is today, Ronaldinho was gone. Henry/Eto'o/Messi was a better, more productive 3.

Turtwig

Suarez basically won the Clasico and the tie against PSG for Barca. People tend to use this "when they needed him most" to sleight Ronaldo or Messi. It's nonsense. They can't play out of their skin the whole time. Ronaldo carried Madrid through the first leg in the Tourmalet*. Neymar did the job for Barca against Sevilla. For the first time since distant memory Barcelona are no longer dependent on Messi.
Also, Benzema's form may vary throughout a season but he's an unreal player with an excellent connection with Ronaldo. When Karim is on song Ronaldo get's far more joy. Hernandez and Bale just aren't dynamic enough and Ronaldo is both starved of space and quality supply. Not to mention Madrid are missing Modric so the entire team is starve of even more.


*Term in Spain for the most difficult series of fixtures for a team in the season. Taken from Le Tour.)

posturingpat

bucketybuck wrote: »

Greedy Ronaldo and his recent £5million donation to charity.

But would he pass to a man in a better position?

CSF

Turtwig wrote: »

Suarez basically won the Clasico and the tie against PSG for Barca. People tend to use this "when they needed him most" to sleight Ronaldo or Messi. It's nonsense. They can't play out of their skin the whole time. Ronaldo carried Madrid through the first leg in the Tourmalet*. Neymar did the job for Barca against Sevilla. For the first time since distant memory Barcelona are no longer dependent on Messi.
Also, Benzema's form may vary throughout a season but he's an unreal player with an excellent connection with Ronaldo. When Karim is on song Ronaldo get's far more joy. Hernandez and Bale just aren't dynamic enough and Ronaldo is both starved of space and quality supply. Not to mention Madrid are missing Modric so the entire team is starve of even more.


*Term in Spain for the most difficult series of fixtures for a team in the season. Taken from Le Tour.)

Great post.

Too Tough To Die

posturingpat wrote: »

But would he pass to a man in a better position?

Would he pass his son to the boy's mother? Even for a couple of hours? Sadly not.

Bohrio

Liam O wrote: »

Is there anyone here not a Liverpool fan, Barca fan, Spanish, Irish or English or from Europe who thinks Messi is better? #CaseClosed.

We need to find someone who is def not a fan of Argentina, like someone from maybe a rival south american country, Uruguay can't do because Suarez plays for Barcelona so maybe someone brasilian? so let me see, lets look for a brazilian player who has never played or supported barcelona...

Ok then, I know, Pele

link

Turtwig

Pele is quite possibly the worst opinion maker in the history of soccer. He cannot read the modern game at all. Great player undoubtedly but an awful awful person to take any advice from soccer-wise.

Bohrio

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Where do you come up with this stuff...greed and ego? Show me a professional player who doesn't have an ego?? As for greed he could have forced his way out of united but played an additional year and produced his best stuff in a united shirt even when he knew he was off out the door. The guy is a model professional and anyone who had played with him has stated the same. But that's okay you keep believing what dunphy and the rags report.

He has had many issues with his Colleagues, and his behaviour in the field is far from professional (kicking the ball after Arbeola scored in sign of disaproval, grabbing his parts and saying "Hey Mathieu., you like this, you like this" is not very professional either. Or saying "fodoanse" (F u) to the fans etc

Now this things are done in the hit of the moment and I am sure that Messi has done similar things but I am just stating a point

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Also I can see why Barcelona wouldn't want his ego, it's not like the team is built around one egomaniac who publicly bad mouthed his manager and tried to get him sacked... but yea Ronaldo is the villIan. Haha

That is exactly why they wouldnt want it, the team couldnt cope with two big egos in the same team (look at Ibra).

Although I wouldnt say he tried to get him sacked but more that he didnt agree with his methods. We have to understand that back then Messi had lost 2 of his best friends (Cesc and Alvez) and was not performing well either (due to physical problems)

Anyway, this things happen, Ronaldo and the entire Real Madrid conspired against Mourinho and got them sacked in the end (or to leave) so I guess they are both Villains.

Also, Ronaldo wouldnt suit Barcelona's play style.

Although it is something I wouldnt mind to see, both of them playing in the same team... I am sure it would be incredible too watch and it could do on short term basis.

Fudge You

CSF wrote: »

Eh Messi has been afforded a huge amount extra space based on the fact that it's now Suarez and Neymar either side of him, rather than Pedro and Villa. I mean every team would want to treble mark a player of Messi's quality, but you can't really do it as effectively when those other 2 are almost as likely to punish you. Easily the best front 3 I think football is ever likely to see. That isn't a slight on Messi. He has been a phenomenal player longer than Suarez and Neymar have been there. But it helps.

Does no one remember Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for Utd. If Tevez wasnt a nut it would have lasted for years.

And how come Neymar is all of a sudden world class??? No one remember the stick he got last season??? I thought he was hyped too much by Brazil?
But now he is better than Aguero, Bale, benzema, Muller, Lewandowski, Rooney, Tevez, Costa and Ibrahimovic???

Backstreet Moyes

Bohrio wrote: »

That is exactly why they wouldnt want it, the team couldnt cope with two big egos in the same team (look at Ibra).

Although I wouldnt say he tried to get him sacked but more that he didnt agree with his methods. We have to understand that back then Messi had lost 2 of his best friends (Cesc and Alvez) and was not performing well either (due to physical problems)

Anyway, this things happen, Ronaldo and the entire Real Madrid conspired against Mourinho and got them sacked in the end (or to leave) so I guess they are both Villains.

Also, Ronaldo wouldnt suit Barcelona's play style.

Although it is something I wouldnt mind to see, both of them playing in the same team... I am sure it would be incredible too watch and it could do on short term basis.

It has been well documented what Messi did which was disgusting from a player.

But on the bolded part can you provide me with some information on Ronaldo pushing to get Mourinho sacked. He may have done i am not sure but i presume you something to back up what you said.

CSF

Fudge You wrote: »

Does no one remember Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for Utd. If Tevez wasnt a nut it would have lasted for years.

And how come Neymar is all of a sudden world class??? No one remember the stick he got last season??? I thought he was hyped too much by Brazil?
But now he is better than Aguero, Bale, benzema, Muller, Lewandowski, Rooney, Tevez, Costa and Ibrahimovic???

I don't think he is better than ALL of those players. I'm a big fan of his all the same though.

Bohrio

Fudge You wrote: »

Does no one remember Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for Utd. If Tevez wasnt a nut it would have lasted for years.

And how come Neymar is all of a sudden world class??? No one remember the stick he got last season??? I thought he was hyped too much by Brazil?
But now he is better than Aguero, Bale, benzema, Muller, Lewandowski, Rooney, Tevez, Costa and Ibrahimovic???

Are you really comparing him to Bale?

Didnt they called him the invisible man? He has done nothing since he came to Madrid, 100 millions and all he has done is scored a goal in the spanish copa del Rey and the second goal in the champions... 100 millions? seriously? Can't believe you actually put him on top of Neymar

Who has improved a lot in the last 2 years and was the only reason (well maybe not the only one but probably the main one) that Brazil made it to the semi final.

He is the third top scorer this year in la Liga after Ronaldo and Messi as well...

dfx-

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I'd also argue that Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Messi was a better front 3 than the current Barca one too.

Not sure there, they were a rabble who were clashing at the end of Rijkaard era (with Deco) and Ronaldinho was on the downward slope.

Bohrio

Nuts102 wrote: »

It has been well documented what Messi did which was disgusting from a player.

But on the bolded part can you provide me with some information on Ronaldo pushing to get Mourinho sacked. He may have done i am not sure but i presume you something to back up what you said.

Not sure I understand the first part, but in regards the part on bold

Put it this way, as soon as Mou left he started saying things about Ronaldo like he is not the "real" Ronaldo etc, this makes me believe he was not happy with Ronaldo during his last few months in Real.

Or this

link

Its in Spanish but it basically says that "Real Madrid players are bunch of traitors son of a b..."

"The only players I trust is Granero, and now I am not even sure he can be trusted either" "You are the most treacherous team I have ever coached"

Their bad relationship was obvious, mostly caused by the Casillas (akA Topo).

Fudge You

Bohrio wrote: »

Are you really comparing him to Bale?

Didnt they called him the invisible man? He has done nothing since he came to Madrid, 100 millions and all he has done is scored a goal in the spanish copa del Rey and the second goal in the champions... 100 millions? seriously? Can't believe you actually put him on top of Neymar

Who has improved a lot in the last 2 years and was the only reason (well maybe not the only one but probably the main one) that Brazil made it to the semi final.

He is the third top scorer this year in la Liga after Ronaldo and Messi as well...

Yes I am comparing them
First off, goals are not everything. Neymar has had a better season than Bale. But I think Bale is a better player.
Are you really saying Bale did nothing last season other than the two goals you mention??? I think your analysis is lazy...
For instance, Madrid v Valencia yesterday, Bale played decent (no madrid player played great), but he was inches from being the hero, so instead he was invisible, and gets no praise.
Was Bale invisible when Real Madrid were flying winning 23+ games in row????

Football fans have the worst memories.

I dont think you remember the stick Neymar got last season. Its is similar to what you are saying about Bale.

Backstreet Moyes

Bohrio wrote: »

Not sure I understand the first part, but in regards the part on bold

Put it this way, as soon as Mou left he started saying things about Ronaldo like he is not the "real" Ronaldo etc, this makes me believe he was not happy with Ronaldo during his last few months in Real.

Or this

link

Its in Spanish but it basically says that "Real Madrid players are bunch of traitors son of a b..."

"The only players I trust is Granero, and now I am not even sure he can be trusted either" "You are the most treacherous team I have ever coached"

Their bad relationship was obvious, mostly caused by the Casillas (akA Topo).

So basically you have nothing to back up your point than Ronaldo tried to get rid of Mourinho.

Turtwig

Fudge You wrote: »

Does no one remember Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for Utd. If Tevez wasnt a nut it would have lasted for years.

And how come Neymar is all of a sudden world class??? No one remember the stick he got last season??? I thought he was hyped too much by Brazil?
But now he is better than Aguero, Bale, benzema, Muller, Lewandowski, Rooney, Tevez, Costa and Ibrahimovic???

He carried a tripe Brazil through the world cup. He's carried Barca at times this season. At times, he's been their best player on the pitch. He got some unfair stick last season but it's fair to say he's really gelled into the side as in definitely not a toothpick. Him an Messi have a telepathic understanding too it seems.

I don't know where exactly I'd rank him among that list of players. Possibly Zlatan and Aguero would be challenging him. He's definitely better than Rooney, Tevez, Lewa and Costa. Muller is one of the most postionally intelligent players I've seen. So he's very hard to compare with other players tbh.

For a supposedly two horse race in the league Madrid don't win it too often recently despite their spending.

1 from the last 7 if Barca wrap this one up

Bohrio

Fudge You wrote: »

Yes I am comparing them
First off, goals are not everything. Neymar has had a better season than Bale. But I think Bale is a better player.
Are you really saying Bale did nothing last season other than the two goals you mention??? I think your analysis is lazy...
For instance, Madrid v Valencia yesterday, Bale played decent (no madrid player played great), but he was inches from being the hero, so instead he was invisible, and gets no praise.
Was Bale invisible when Real Madrid were flying winning 23+ games in row????

Football fans have the worst memories.

I dont think you remember the stick Neymar got last season. Its is similar to what you are saying about Bale.

True goals are not everything (except when we are comparing Ronaldo and Messi) but it is a way of measuring performance and how things are going, and him being third top scorer just below the 2 best players of the moment is good enough to indicate he is certainly world class. Again, his performance with Brasil was excellent.

Bale did a decent season last year, not 100 million season but he did some bits here and there but nothing to take your breath away. And now he is really struggling, his relationship with the team is not the best and you can see that in the pitch, they ignore him most of the time or at least this is how it looks like

For whatever reason Bale is not focused, and he is not happy, 100 million is what Madrid paid for Ronaldo, and this guy is nowhere close to him.

Ancelotti has said a few times that Bale is not performing well

Bohrio

Nuts102 wrote: »

So basically you have nothing to back up your point than Ronaldo tried to get rid of Mourinho.

Ok show me your and I will show you mine

Now it has to say from a trusted source (not someone saying that he said that ..) and it has to clearly state Messi wants Luis Enrique sacked