Messi Or Ronaldo?

Caovyn Lineah

I just can't understand why people seem adamant on not giving him the credit he deserves. Is it because he played for United?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I just can't understand why people seem adamant on not giving him the credit he deserves. Is it because he played for United?

Maybe there are people give him extra credit because he played for Utd?

derfderf

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's hard to totally fault Ronaldo for Real going out tonight, there was a collection of players at fault.

But for all his goals (and he's an all time great on that alone) the big game bug does bite him too often.

Real have won the league once (in 6 seasons) since signing Ronaldo. That's a poor return. The Copas Del Ray cups have helped, and of course the CL win last year (when Ronaldo was poor) have been successful for Real.

But when it comes down to it, Messi is the standout player of this generation. He has the goals tally to match Ronaldo, but it's the magic in the big games (and the incredible high consistent level) over almost a decade that sets him apart.

It's unfortunate for Ronaldo, cause if there was no Messi, he'd probably have won the Ballon d'Or another three times.

But there is Messi, and thankfully there is. What a talent and a joy to watch.

You're holding a poor game in the champions league final against him even though he scored 16 on the way there?

ahnowbrowncow

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I just can't understand why people seem adamant on not giving him the credit he deserves. Is it because he played for United?

Probably because he scored two goals in this years semi finals to add to his stats, a penalty and a tap in. But what the stats don't tell you though is that he didn't do much else in the two games. He's a great goalscorer but his overall play leaves a lot to be desired at times.

Turtwig

Ronaldo has been suffering with tendonitis of late. His form has dropped considerably. It also doesn't help that Modric is out and Bale, James are absolutely useless this season for providing the flow of game that Ronaldo thrives. Madrid's attacks are way too stuttered of late. You can't blame Ronaldo for that.

Also, the guy did the business today with the penalty. On another night his left strike would have beat Buffon.

I think it says more about Real than it does Ronaldo. Every time they get a balance to the team. They go and fck it up. Playing with no DM tonight was suicidal. Luckily Juve were absolutely awful on the counter. Tevez needs to be shown a highlights reel by Allegri. His lines and distribution were shambolic.

Messi, this season has prospered from a more direct Barcelona and an coach who places a huge emphasis on player conditioning. Ronaldo and Messi are just players in a team. If that team is malfunctioning it's less likely the main two will have an impact.

j8wk2feszrnpao

derfderf wrote: »

You're holding a poor game in the champions league final against him even though he scored 16 on the way there?

No, I'm not.

I've been watching Spainish football for a long time. I've see more of La Liga than the Prem over the last decade.

Ronaldo is a great goal scorer. I admire the guy. He's an incredible professional who ensures that he's in the best shape possible to play as well as possible. He's dedicated himself to that goal.

But I've seen him far too often not deliver for Real. Those first 4 years at Real, he was scoring the goals, but come the big moments/games, he was very poor and disappeared. Barcelona dominated with Messi the star.

Ronaldo deserves credit over the last two years. He did have an impact in a number of those big games. But there were games where he might score, and then disappear (a bit like last nights games). The CL final last year, he tucked away a meaningless penalty after having a really poor game; he got a goal to add to the stats, but it was a big game that he failed to play well in.

The stats and goals for Ronaldo are incredible. He's one of the great players. He's just hasn't hit the levels that Messi has, who is one of the greatest.

GavRedKing

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Maybe there are people give him extra credit because he played for Utd?

Truth is, its a bit of both really.

Hes elevated to a level of Jesus by some Utd fans while opposition fans will paint him as a jumped up, glorified Bendtner.

On a forum dominated by Utd & Pool fans the view are going to be contrasting at times but anyone that denies how good Ronaldo actually is, is mental.

He might not be as good as Messi when both are at their best, thats not exactly a bad thing when you consider everyone else playing the game cant even compare or come close to Messi, its only Ronaldo who has come close and on some occasions, surpassed his great rival in terms of goals scored and performances down the years. Ronaldo is the only one stopping Messi win 6 or 7 Balon D'ors in a row, flip side is Messi is the only one stopping Ronaldo doing the same, and IMO, they both need each other to push on for goals and targets and team success as without the competition from one and other maybe Ronaldo isnt as competitive, ditto for Messi.

People will have a favourite, thats only natural in life but as a football fan you have to respect both and what theyve done, its unlikey that we'll have 2 players in their prime smashing records week in, week out for sometime.

GLaDOS

I wonder if a full summer off to recharge will see Ronaldo back to his very best next season. Playing at the World Cup with an injury last summer may have caused him to carry problems into this season.

GavRedKing

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I wonder if a full summer off to recharge will see Ronaldo back to his very best next season. Playing at the World Cup with an injury last summer may have caused him to carry problems into this season.

A lot of players suffered from the WC, I feel sorry for the South Americans going to the Copa America this year as it means another long summer and travelling, with a lot less rest than their European counter parts for 2 years running.

j8wk2feszrnpao

GavRedKing wrote: »

He might not be as good as Messi when both are at their best, thats not exactly a bad thing when you consider everyone else playing the game cant even compare or come close to Messi

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm trying to say.
People just need to take a step back and look at what Ronaldo has done; he has got the goals, trophies and awards to back up that he's been a great player.
It's no shame to say he's not Messi; just as it's no shame to say that van Basten was no Maradonna. Two players that amazed me as a kid and who I loved to watch.

j8wk2feszrnpao

GavRedKing wrote: »

A lot of players suffered from the WC, I feel sorry for the South Americans going to the Copa America this year as it means another long summer and travelling, with a lot less rest than their European counter parts for 2 years running.

The entire football calender is a bit screwed up. It needs fixing. But there's so much money involved that I'm not sure it'll be done anytime soon.
e.g. Barca had a Winter break, but Messi (and I think Neymar) had to be rested for their first game back (after playing Winter friendlies).

There's going to be some fun when they try fitting in this Winter WC coming up

Talib Fiasco

Turns out Ronaldo did not actually donate that money...he should be tarred and feathered

Ulysses Gaze

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Turns out Ronaldo did not actually donate that money...he should be tarred and feathered

Link?

Bohrio

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Link?

link

Ulysses Gaze

Bohrio wrote: »

link

Thanks.

niallo27

GavRedKing wrote: »

Truth is, its a bit of both really.

Hes elevated to a level of Jesus by some Utd fans while opposition fans will paint him as a jumped up, glorified Bendtner.

On a forum dominated by Utd & Pool fans the view are going to be contrasting at times but anyone that denies how good Ronaldo actually is, is mental.

He might not be as good as Messi when both are at their best, thats not exactly a bad thing when you consider everyone else playing the game cant even compare or come close to Messi, its only Ronaldo who has come close and on some occasions, surpassed his great rival in terms of goals scored and performances down the years. Ronaldo is the only one stopping Messi win 6 or 7 Balon D'ors in a row, flip side is Messi is the only one stopping Ronaldo doing the same, and IMO, they both need each other to push on for goals and targets and team success as without the competition from one and other maybe Ronaldo isnt as competitive, ditto for Messi.

People will have a favourite, thats only natural in life but as a football fan you have to respect both and what theyve done, its unlikey that we'll have 2 players in their prime smashing records week in, week out for sometime.

I don't think liverpool fans in general care that much he played for Utd to be honest. It doesn't bother me really. Bit like tevez not really a big deal compared to a Keane or cantona or Rooney.

eagle eye

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

"A puffball. A nothing player. Has never done it on the big stage. Will never be a player as long as he has a hole in his arse. Scores the fifth goal in meaningless La Liga games when Real win 8-0, but when it come to the showdown baby, he won't be there. "

Ah hang on a minute Eamon, that's not fair, you are being too harsh, Rolando is a very good footballer but he is just not in the same class as that Barcelona chap Massey.

Rayne Wooney

In light of that bombshell it makes the interview when he came out and said he'd given 5 million to the charity along with a gold statue of himself scoring a penalty and proclaimed himself the best thing since sliced bread even worse

Ulysses Gaze

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah hang on a minute Eamon, that's not fair, you are being too harsh, Rolando is a very good footballer but he is just not in the same class as that Barcelona chap Massey.

"Will ya stop. At least Massey is a real pro, who will give it a go. This fella Ronaldo, is a cod."

eternal

Messaldo.

CSF

eternal wrote: »

Messaldo.

That's actually a scary thought. A player with the natural giftedness of Messi with the insane athleticism and drive of Ronaldo. Inhuman.

Too Tough To Die

CSF wrote: »

That's actually a scary thought. A player with the natural giftedness of Messi with the insane athleticism and drive of Ronaldo. Inhuman.

I'm not convinced that Ronaldo is any more driven than Messi.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I've always been suspicious of charitable donations done publicly.

Bohrio

I find it hard to believe, there gotta be a mistake of some sort, I mean, how on earth did he think he was gonna get away with it?

Turtwig

It could a translation thing. Maybe Ronaldo said he's donated whatever the amount claimed was to the charity. The thing is what he actually meant was over the past few years. It was picked up though as Ronnie saying that he donated in light of the tragedy.

Easy thing to happen in primary language. Even easier still for errors to accrue in translations. Thus spreads a myth.


Now, maybe he did lie, the thing is when stories are so extraordinary I always veer towards more plausible scenarios that can occur first. Mistakes like the above are unbelievably common in today's media where the notion of checking sources is simply down to reporting who the source was and parroting that verbatim rather than whether the source was actually fcking accurate!

Bridge93

Did Ronaldo actually say he donated it himself? I thought it was a French paper?

The Golden Miller

CSF wrote: »

That's actually a scary thought. A player with the natural giftedness of Messi with the insane athleticism and drive of Ronaldo. Inhuman.

Stop talking rubbish. Apart from heading, Messi is better than Ronaldo at everything. Is "athleticism" even an attribute? How does it effect his game on the field? He's still rubbish at dribbling, free's, playmaking and always scored goals. This "great athlete" business is just hollow words, thrown out to make it look like there's different aspects of the game he is better than Messi at aka spooferism

eternal

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Stop talking rubbish. Apart from heading, Messi is better than Ronaldo at everything. Is "athleticism" even an attribute? How does it effect his game on the field? He's still rubbish at dribbling, free's, playmaking and always scored goals. This "great athlete" business is just hollow words, thrown out to make it look like there's different aspects of the game he is better than Messi at aka spooferism

He's not better at pouting than Ronnie.

The Golden Miller

eternal wrote: »

He's not better at pouting than Ronnie.

I'll give you that one.

Ulysses Gaze

eternal wrote: »

He's not better at pouting than Ronnie.

Or diving

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Stop talking rubbish. Apart from heading, Messi is better than Ronaldo at everything. Is "athleticism" even an attribute? How does it effect his game on the field? He's still rubbish at dribbling, free's, playmaking and always scored goals. This "great athlete" business is just hollow words, thrown out to make it look like there's different aspects of the game he is better than Messi at aka spooferism

You continuously outdo yourself. It's astounding really, if a little try-hard at this point...

Good to know that aestheticism isn't important for athletes whatsoever though... an improvement in that area this season (and in seasons past, like when he built out his frame) certainly hasn't benefitted Messi whatsoever!

eternal

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Or diving

Messi hardly ever goes down unless it's genuine.

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

You continuously outdo yourself. It's astounding really, if a little try-hard at this point...

Good to know that aestheticism isn't important for athletes whatsoever though... an improvement in that area this season (and in seasons past, like when he built out his frame) certainly hasn't benefitted Messi whatsoever!

We both know saying Ronaldo is the best player in the world because "of his speed and athleticism" and other such hollow words is a load of nonsense. Compared to what he previously was before he became this super god alpha-male athlete we hear so much about, what aspects of his game have actually improved? His passing, creating and link up play? No. His dribbling and ability to beat players? No. So what? That he looks better now? Well we should give him the next Ballon d'or for that alone then

Ed Winchester

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Stop talking rubbish. Apart from heading, Messi is better than Ronaldo at everything. Is "athleticism" even an attribute? How does it effect his game on the field? He's still rubbish at dribbling, free's, playmaking and always scored goals. This "great athlete" business is just hollow words, thrown out to make it look like there's different aspects of the game he is better than Messi at aka spooferism

Brilliant!!

You're gas man!

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

We both know saying Ronaldo is the best player in the world because "of his speed and athleticism" and other such hollow words is a load of nonsense. Compared to what he previously was before he became this super god alpha-male athlete we hear so much about, what aspects of his game have actually improved? His passing, creating and link up play? No. His dribbling and ability to beat players? No. So what? That he looks better now? Well we should give him the next Ballon d'or for that alone then

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

That he looks better now? Well we should give him the next Ballon d'or for that alone then

I think I see where the resentment might come from.

You wrestling with issues that are not...football related?

bucketybuck

How good would Ronaldo have been if he spent his formative years at one of the drug taking clubs instead of United?

Iused2likebusts

bucketybuck wrote: »

How good would Ronaldo have been if he spent his formative years at one of the drug taking clubs instead of United?

He would probably be a little closer to messi

Liam O

eternal wrote: »

Messi hardly ever goes down unless it's genuine.

Advantageous is now spelt genuine, I'll call the papers.

GLaDOS

bucketybuck wrote: »

How good would Ronaldo have been if he spent his formative years at one of the drug taking clubs instead of United?

I'm not sure Pats could have afforded Ronaldo

gimmick

Haha, the "drug taking" is the last resort of a defeated argument.

Iang87

The drug taking argument...... Stick a fork in it Mods. Thread looks done

eternal

Iang87 wrote: »

The drug taking argument...... Stick a fork in it Mods. Thread looks done

Leave Messaldo alone.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Both guys did their jobs at the weekend.
I was flicking between both games, both kinda strolled to win their games (I though Atlético would put up more of a fight).

Ronaldo got his hattrick (7th of the season) and Messi got the goal to win the league.
Incredible stuff from both guys.

Looking at both games, Messi does seem more important to Barca than Ronaldo to Real.
I think Real would have won 1:2 or 1:3, but Barca needed Messi to step up.

Hopefully the new TV deal helps the clubs below Real/Barca.
I heard last weekend, that one of the team relegated from the Prem last year, got more TV money than Atlético did for winning the league.
Both Messi and Ronaldo are great players, but the imbalance in the league has benefited both of them hugely.

Kerrigooney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1icQjpG8vM

/Thread.

Ulysses Gaze

Kerrigooney wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1icQjpG8vM

/Thread.

Juventus beware.

If Messi plays like that, and Argentina can get Banega to play the way he has at Sevilla this season, they have a great chance if winnin the Copa America.

Iused2likebusts

Kerrigooney wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1icQjpG8vM

/Thread.

It only happened because suarez and Neymar were on the pitch. He couldn't do that without xavi and iniesta. It's not that good because he has played for Barca all his career. The drugs scored that goal. He needs to do it in the world cup final.

eternal

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

It only happened because suarez and Neymar were on the pitch. He couldn't do that without xavi and iniesta. It's not that good because he has played for Barca all his career. The drugs scored that goal. He needs to do it in the world cup final.

What do you like now? Cocks?

Iused2likebusts

eternal wrote: »

What do you like now? Cocks?

No I've gone back to the busts.

eternal

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

No I've gone back to the busts.

Well you're talking tits anyway.