Messi Or Ronaldo?

Faugheen

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He'll almost certainly return.

After he threw his toys out of the pram?

Of course nothing will be said about that. He'll be welcomed back with open arms.

JaMarcusHustle

Faugheen wrote: »

Cristiano Ronaldo also 2nd highest scorer and 2nd highest assister in these Championships.

Faugheen wrote: »

He bows out of international football a winner, Messi bows out a whinger.

What an idiotic statement.

Ronaldo @ Euro 2016: 3 Goals, 3 Assists
Messi @ Copa America: 5 Goals, 4 Assists

Yet because Argentina lost the final, this is portrayed as a victory for Ronaldo who went off injured in his own final with no contribution?

I'm as big a fan of Ronaldo as anyone, but using these tournaments in this argument is ridiculous.

tayto lover

jaykay74 wrote: »

And yet without a major international trophy there is an incompleteness don't you think?

One man can't win Internationals.
The man is a genius and the best without doubt.

Skylinehead

SantryRed wrote: »

That final just goes to show how stupid the 'needs to win a major international tournament' is when it comes to comparing two players.

Ronaldo didn't do anything in the final, went off injured, they won, and all of a sudden it's something to use as a barometer? It's a weird stat one I'd use to give Ronaldo/Messi one over each other. I'm delighted for Ronaldo though.

Wait for it

jaykay74 wrote: »

And yet without a major international trophy there is an incompleteness don't you think?

And there it is.

CSF

If Panama were in the Euros Ronaldo might have got more too.

Based on how both individuals have handled adversity this summer I know which I'd prefer in my dressing room if I was a player.

tayto lover

CSF wrote: »

If Panama were in the Euros Ronaldo might have got more too.

Based on how both individuals have handled adversity this summer I know which I'd prefer in my dressing room if I was a player.

Me too. Messi every time.

Faugheen

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

What an idiotic statement.

Ronaldo @ Euro 2016: 3 Goals, 3 Assists
Messi @ Copa America: 5 Goals, 4 Assists

Yet because Argentina lost the final, this is portrayed as a victory for Ronaldo who went off injured in his own final with no contribution?

I'm as big a fan of Ronaldo as anyone, but using these tournaments in this argument is ridiculous.

It's not an idiotic statement. Messi bowed out of international football because yet again he lost and now he (and a lot of other mercenaries) decided it wasn't their fault and he threw his toys out of the pram.

Ronaldo went off injured, granted. Doesn't mean his contribution to Portugal's win is moot. They wouldn't have got there without him. Would Messi be on the touchline alongside the manager in the same situation, barking out orders and encouraging his team-mates along? No he wouldn't. Ronaldo didn't give up on them and he didn't give up on his country. Messi has.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Faugheen wrote: »

Cristiano Ronaldo also 2nd highest scorer and 2nd highest assister in these Championships. Not to mention the goals against Hungary which got them out of the group and then the goal against Wales which helped them to the final.

The man can do no right with some people. He's made out to be the devil no matter what he achieves.

He bows out of international football a winner, Messi bows out a whinger.

And what about the one international tournament they both play in?

I'm not making him out to be the devil, no one is, in fact.

You're the one calling Messi a whinger.

CSF

tayto lover wrote: »

Me too. Messi every time.

Ok, if you prefer the guy who will quit on you rather than try egg you over the line even when he cannot contribute, it is not for me to insult your personal preference.

The Messi v Ronaldo stuff is mad. Is this what fanboys argue about or is that something else? Makes fun reading!

Both are incredible players. Privilege to see them both in their prime

jaykay74

tayto lover wrote:

One man can't win Internationals. The man is a genius and the best without doubt.

Did I say otherwise?

L'prof

Faugheen wrote: »

It's not an idiotic statement. Messi bowed out of international football because yet again he lost and now he (and a lot of other mercenaries) decided it wasn't their fault and he threw his toys out of the pram.

Ronaldo went off injured, granted. Doesn't mean his contribution to Portugal's win is moot. They wouldn't have got there without him. Would Messi be on the touchline alongside the manager in the same situation, barking out orders and encouraging his team-mates along? No he wouldn't. Ronaldo didn't give up on them and he didn't give up on his country. Messi has.

Objection your honour, conjecture...

tayto lover

Faugheen wrote: »

It's not an idiotic statement. Messi bowed out of international football because yet again he lost and now he (and a lot of other mercenaries) decided it wasn't their fault and he threw his toys out of the pram.

Ronaldo went off injured, granted. Doesn't mean his contribution to Portugal's win is moot. They wouldn't have got there without him. Would Messi be on the touchline alongside the manager in the same situation, barking out orders and encouraging his team-mates along? No he wouldn't. Ronaldo didn't give up on them and he didn't give up on his country. Messi has.

Oh my God. :pac::pac:

Rayne Wooney

I don't think there's any question now, a 4th Balon D'Or on the way, a major international trophy just a couple of months after winning the CL.

What Ronaldo has done this year has trumped any season Messi has had and Ronaldo is past his peak while doing it!

That Barca team would have been one of the greatest with or without Lionel. The absence of a peak Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and the rest turned Spain from world champions into also rans.

PhlegmyMoses

THFC wrote: »

He does a lot more than shade it.. And he's 2 years younger..

He doesn't really though does he? They're both by far and away the brightest talents of their generations and pretty much go til for tat for personal accolades. Ronaldo will win Ballon D'Or this year. Not sure how their ages are relevant.

Faugheen

tayto lover wrote: »

One man can't win Internationals.
The man is a genius and the best without doubt.

Messi has a much better team to play with than Ronaldo has internationally.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

Messi has a much better team to play with than Ronaldo has internationally.

Not anymore!

tayto lover

Faugheen wrote: »

Messi has a much better team to play with than Ronaldo has internationally.

Again debatable.

JinkyJackson

Wouldn't use this tournament as a barometer in the Messi v Ronnie argument, but it'll almost certainly guarantee Ronaldo his 4th Balon D'or

speedboatchase

I've never understood the complete lack of respect Messi fans have for Ronaldo. For me these are the two players of all time. Some years Messi has a better season, some years Ronaldo is better. Messi will likely be the one who will be better remembered, but there is no "light years ahead" difference between them. "Light years" is the distance between Messi/Ronaldo and whoever is the third best player in the world.

SantryRed

Faugheen wrote: »

Messi has a much better team to play with than Ronaldo has internationally.

He'd probably take Eder over Higuain after the last three summers :pac:

Suarez was better than them both this season

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He doesn't really though does he? They're both by far and away the brightest talents of their generations and pretty much go til for tat for personal accolades. Ronaldo will win Ballon D'Or this year. Not sure how their ages are relevant.

IMO, and this argument is a matter of opinion, he is. And I completely agree with the bolded statement, Ronaldo is unfortunate that his time at the top has coincided with Messi's, even though it did drive both players to higher levels.

As for the Ballon d'Or, despite him being on the winning CL and Euros team I'd be surprised.

As for their ages, of course that's relevant. I don't see how you can't see that.

tayto lover

speedboatchase wrote: »

I've never understood the complete lack of respect Messi fans have for Ronaldo. For me these are the two players of all time. Some years Messi has a better season, some years Ronaldo is better. Messi will likely be the one who will be better remembered, but there is no "light years ahead" difference between them. "Light years" is the distance between Messi/Ronaldo and whoever is the third best player in the world.

Messi is lightyears better than Ronaldo. No question. Creates far more of his own goals too.

Nite all.

I wonder if Ronaldo will hang about for the 2018 world cup campaign - Portugal's qualifying group include Switzerland, Hungary, Faroe Islands, Latvia and Andorra and they're 1/25 with the bookies to get at least a top 2 spot so they'll most likely qualify for it. I'd personally like to see him get one last crack at the biggest prize of all. Maybe he'll quit international football to give himself an easier go of it for the remaining years of his career and he'd clearly be well entitled to given the amount of service he has given to his country.

For me, Maradona and Messi stand a class apart from all other players ever, but Ronaldo is third in line.

jaykay74

tayto lover wrote:

Again debatable.

It's debatable that the current Portugal team might be better than Argentina?!

Rainman16

I voted for Messi, But honestly both men are among the greatest players of all time. In a way it's unfortunate for both of them that the other is around in their era, But in another way it's the competition and competitiveness between the two of them that has made them better players.

speedboatchase

tayto lover wrote: »

speedboatchase wrote: »

I've never understood the complete lack of respect Messi fans have for Ronaldo. For me these are the two players of all time. Some years Messi has a better season, some years Ronaldo is better. Messi will likely be the one who will be better remembered, but there is no "light years ahead" difference between them. "Light years" is the distance between Messi/Ronaldo and whoever is the third best player in the world.

Messi is lightyears better than Ronaldo. No question. Creates far more of his own goals too.

Nite all.

Nonsense statement. Shame that in this era you are a complete fanboy.

tayto lover

speedboatchase wrote: »

Nonsense statement. Shame that in this era you are a complete fanboy.

I recognise class.
Ronaldo is not bad too.

CSF

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder if Ronaldo will hang about for the 2018 world cup campaign - Portugal's qualifying group include Switzerland, Hungary, Faroe Islands, Latvia and Andorra and they're 1/25 with the bookies to get at least a top 2 spot so they'll most likely qualify for it. I'd personally like to see him get one last crack at the biggest prize of all. Maybe he'll quit international football to give himself an easier go of it for the remaining years of his career and he'd clearly be well entitled to given the amount of service he has given to his country.

For me, Maradona and Messi stand a class apart from all other players ever, but Ronaldo is third in line.

As great an accolade this would be to retire on, I think he'll be around for one last World Cup.

The_Kew_Tour

Ronaldo or Messi?
"Messi"
What!!???
Ronaldo Ronaldo...

PhlegmyMoses

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Suarez was better than them both this season

Won't win the Balon D'or though. Being on winning teams is pretty much a pre requisite. He was incredible this year though

Faugheen

tayto lover wrote: »

Again debatable.

Mascherano, Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Lavezzi, Pastore, Gaitan.

Pepe, William, Nani, Patricio, Joao Mario, Adrien Silva.

Sorry, but there's no contest. I've tried to name Portugal's better performers as well.

tayto lover

Faugheen wrote: »

Mascherano, Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Lavezzi, Pastore, Gaitan.

Pepe, William, Nani, Patricio, Joao Mario, Adrien Silva.

Sorry, but there's no contest. I've tried to name Portugal's better performers as well.

On paper many thought Belgium has the best players in the Euros.
Didn't make a great team though.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Won't win the Balon D'or though. Being on winning teams is pretty much a pre requisite. He was incredible this year though

Yeah true.

Ronaldo will get it and with Portugal winning this it's hard to argue against it

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Regarding the Ballon d'Or, can it be said that Ronaldo has been the best player this year?

I really don't see how it can be. Looking at it now, he almost surely will win it, but not because of his individual exploits.

Faugheen

tayto lover wrote: »

On paper many thought Belgium has the best players in the Euros.
Didn't make a great team though.

So a team that makes the final of a World Cup and a Copa America isn't a great team?

Vincent Vega

Faugheen wrote: »

It's not an idiotic statement. Messi bowed out of international football because yet again he lost and now he (and a lot of other mercenaries) decided it wasn't their fault and he threw his toys out of the pram.

Ronaldo went off injured, granted. Doesn't mean his contribution to Portugal's win is moot. They wouldn't have got there without him. Would Messi be on the touchline alongside the manager in the same situation, barking out orders and encouraging his team-mates along? No he wouldn't. Ronaldo didn't give up on them and he didn't give up on his country. Messi has.

Which mercenaries? Martino and his coaching staff?

I was under the impression that that was related to a number of scandals within the AFA.

Messi may not be a 'leader' in that he lacks the personality to scream and shout at his teammates, but you can't really fault his effort throughout the Copa America.

Despite the penalty miss in the final he played out of his skin for the duration of 120 mins.

tayto lover

Faugheen wrote: »

So a team that makes the final of a World Cup and a Copa America isn't a great team?

You can have a great team which doesn't perform on the day.
Surely you understand that?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

tayto lover wrote: »

You can have a great team which doesn't perform on the day.
Surely you understand that?

You're fighting a losing battle. People like him ignore logic.

PhlegmyMoses

THFC wrote: »

Regarding the Ballon d'Or, can it be said that Ronaldo has been the best player this year?

I really don't see how it can be. Looking at it now, he almost surely will win it, but not because of his individual exploits.

I'd personally go with Suarez 1, Ronaldo 2. But at the end of the day, Ronaldo has done another 50+ goal season, 16 of which came in Europe. As always with Ronaldo, the stats are incredible

tayto lover

THFC wrote: »

You're fighting a losing battle. People like him ignore logic.

Schools out :pac:

GreNoLi

oh ffs....

GavRedKing

In an ideal world everyone would idolise both players for their unimaginable greatness and the fact theyre playing in the same era at the same time makes it even more impressive but the sniping between whos better is pretty petty. You can have your favourite between the two of them but its nearly impossible calling whos better, there'll be a sad humbling and normal day in football when both are retired and things like 40+ goals a season is seen as amazing and not the norm.

Fair play to Ronaldo, you could see what it meant for him coming off injured thinking his chance had gone but 100mins later Portugal had done something they should have done 12 years earlier and win the Euros.

Faugheen

tayto lover wrote: »

You can have a great team which doesn't perform on the day.
Surely you understand that?

I totally understand teams don't perform on the day.

...but that's completely different to what you said a few minutes ago when you compared them to Belgium.

EDIT: Just to remind you, in case you forgot, this is what you said:

tayto lover wrote: »

On paper many thought Belgium has the best players in the Euros.
Didn't make a great team though.

Which was in response to:

tayto lover wrote: »

Again debatable.

Mascherano, Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Lavezzi, Pastore, Gaitan.

Pepe, William, Nani, Patricio, Joao Mario, Adrien Silva.

Sorry, but there's no contest. I've tried to name Portugal's better performers as well.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'd personally go with Suarez 1, Ronaldo 2. But at the end of the day, Ronaldo has done another 50+ goal season, 16 of which came in Europe. As always with Ronaldo, the stats are incredible

I'd agree with no. 1...:P

I think no. 2 comes down to personal opinio. Pepe surely deserves a mention, but, being a defender, and well, being Pepe, he won't get near it.

JinkyJackson

THFC wrote:

Regarding the Ballon d'Or, can it be said that Ronaldo has been the best player this year?

THFC wrote:

I really don't see how it can be. Looking at it now, he almost surely will win it, but not because of his individual exploits.

51 goals,
16 in the champions league (2nd most ever) (he also has the most, 17 in 2014)
Champions League winner.

Second most goals and assists in the Euros,
Euros winner

Definitely not because of his individual exploits...

tayto lover

Faugheen wrote: »

I totally understand teams don't perform on the day.

...but that's completely different to what you said a few minutes ago when you compared them to Belgium.

No it isn't.
Belgium have been one of the favs to win groups, competitions over the last number of years. Haven't done so. Great players, great individuals but not team players.
Argentina have great players and make finals as they did this year again but just didn't perform on the night or missed chances to win.

You named players on the Portuguese and Argentinian teams and asked which were the best. The best are those who perform on the day.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

GavRedKing wrote: »

In an ideal world everyone would idolise both players for their unimaginable greatness and the fact theyre playing in the same era at the same time makes it even more impressive but the sniping between whos better is pretty petty. You can have your favourite between the two of them but its nearly impossible calling whos better, there'll be a sad humbling and normal day in football when both are retired and things like 40+ goals a season is seen as amazing and not the norm.

Fair play to Ronaldo, you could see what it meant for him coming off injured thinking his chance had gone but 100mins later Portugal had done something they should have done 12 years earlier and win the Euros.

Agree with the first bolded sentence, and I agree with the second bolded sentence, but I completely disagree with the 3rd bolded statement. I genuinely believe Messi is the better player, and clearly so.

That's my opinion, and I understand people will have different opinions, but you can't put across your opinion like it's a fact just because you're not choosing sides.

Skylinehead

I think the killer argument, for me, is that Messi can legitimately be called the best playmaker in the world. And he's one of the best goalscorers in the world, paralleled only by Ronaldo. So he's two great players rolled into one.