Messi Or Ronaldo?

SlickRic

The butthurt over Ronaldo never ceases to be highly amusing.

I've no doubt that pretty much the entirety of people's dislike of the man, and what clouds their judgment of him as a player, is the fact he comes across as an arrogant fúcker on the football pitch. And that is such a stupid way to judge a player.

Forget tonight, as he was gone after 25 minutes and had little to no bearing on the game.

In arguably Portugal's two biggest games, he scores two and assists one against Hungary to help them out of the group, and in the semis, he scores one and assists one (though granted, it was lucky).

The man has won 3 Ballon D'Ors and could well now win another.
He's won multiple Champions Leagues with 2 different teams.
He's won League titles.
He's won domestic Cups.
He's won Pichichis.
He's won the Premier League's Golden Boot.
And they're just the awards.

He's redefined himself.

At first, he was a tricky winger. He moulded himself into a terrorising wide forward who largely redefined that position in terms of the goal output expected of a player in that position.

He then moves centrally and breaks most records under the sun at Real Madrid.

His body then starts acting up. Fully in tune with what his body can do, he explicitly turns himself into a pure goalscoring centre forward. He dribbles less, does less outside the box than ever, but he's now become a predator.

The lad is a genius. A genius who is underappreciated because people think they know him because of his persona on the pitch. It's scandalous.

I prefer Messi. But the difference between the two is miniscule when it comes to it.

Sir Alex Ferguson described it quite perfectly when he was in Dublin recently. He was asked who he thought was better. He answered Ronaldo. I don't agree, but his reasoning was nonetheless spot on. I'm paraphrasing below.

'Messi is phenomenal. He looks like he plays in his slippers. But he's a Barcelona player, and always will be. The difference is, you stick Ronaldo in any team in the world, even Accrington Stanley, and he'll score you goals. He has two good feet, is quick, strong and phenomenal in the air'.

Perfectly put.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

JinkyJackson wrote: »

51 goals,
16 in the champions league (2nd most ever) (he also has the most, 17 in 2014)
Champions League winner.

Second most goals and assists in the Euros,
Euros winner

Definitely not because of his individual exploits...

Ok, didn't think I'd need to spell it out. Fair enough, he was banging them in in the CL, but was he the outstanding player in the world? No, not at all. That's not to say he wasn't up there, but there was no outstanding player this year, and I think most people acknowledge that.


Don't know what 2014 has to do with it.

As for the Euros, his tradition big rival doesn't play in it, and he had a very good Copa.

So no, not because of his individual exploits, but more because of his team's exploits, which of course he made a substantial contribution.

tayto lover

Ha ha i'd expect him to score for Accrington Stanley in a lower league :pac:

GavRedKing

THFC wrote: »

Agree with the first bolded sentence, and I agree with the second bolded sentence, but I completely disagree with the 3rd bolded statement. I genuinely believe Messi is the better player, and clearly so.

That's my opinion, and I understand people will have different opinions, but you can't put across your opinion like it's a fact just because you're not choosing sides.

I personally prefer Messi, but wouldnt put down anyones claims that ronaldo is better.

In any other era where one existed and the other didnt, theyed be considered the greatest of all time hands down, Pele had no competition, Maradona had no competition, Cruyff had a raft of Germans, but namely Beckenbauer, these two are playing against each other and it's probably helped and spurred both on to greatness pitting them against one and other, I think it makes for a fantastic spectacle.

I do think Messi deserves international recognition bar the Olympics win but losing 3 international finals in a row will go some way to have people leaning towards Ronaldo. I also dont think Messi will remained retired from Argentina, if they sort out their FA issues at home, he might come back for the right coach and hang up the boots after the WC in 2018.

If only Messi had Eder and not Higuain bottling chances he might have a WC winners medal. :pac:

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

SlickRic wrote: »

The butthurt over Ronaldo never ceases to be highly amusing.

I've no doubt that pretty much the entirety of people's dislike of the man, and what clouds their judgment of him as a player, is the fact he comes across as an arrogant fúcker on the football pitch. And that is such a stupid way to judge a player.

Forget tonight, as he was gone after 25 minutes and had little to no bearing on the game.

In arguably Portugal's two biggest games, he scores two and assists one against Hungary to help them out of the group, and in the semis, he scores one and assists one (though granted, it was lucky).

The man has won 3 Ballon D'Ors and could well now win another.
He's won multiple Champions Leagues with 2 different teams.
He's won League titles.
He's won domestic Cups.
He's won Pichichis.
He's won the Premier League's Golden Boot.
And they're just the awards.

He's redefined himself.

At first, he was a tricky winger. He moulded himself into a terrorising wide forward who largely redefined that position in terms of the goal output expected of a player in that position.

He then moves centrally and breaks most records under the sun at Real Madrid.

His body then starts acting up. Fully in tune with what his body can do, he explicitly turns himself into a pure goalscoring centre forward. He dribbles less, does less outside the box than ever, but he's now become a predator.

The lad is a genius. A genius who is underappreciated because people think they know him because of his persona on the pitch. It's scandalous.

I prefer Messi. But the difference between the two is miniscule when it comes to it.

Sir Alex Ferguson described it quite perfectly when he was in Dublin recently. He was asked who he thought was better. He answered Ronaldo. I don't agree, but his reasoning was nonetheless spot on. I'm paraphrasing below.

'Messi is phenomenal. He looks like he plays in his slippers. But he's a Barcelona player, and always will be. The difference is, you stick Ronaldo in any team in the world, even Accrington Stanley, and he'll score you goals. He has two good feet, is quick, strong and phenomenal in the air'.

Perfectly put.

Can people not debate the merits of both players without the Ronaldo fanboys coming on and making statements like that? And I'm not saying you are one, by any means.

There are dipshíts on both sides of this argument, but yet it's only poor Ronaldo who people seem to come to defence of the most.

Great post btw, aside from the first sentence of course, I agree with everything except the last bit. Why take the opinion of his former manager as basis for your argument? It weakens it in my opinion.

SlickRic

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha i'd expect him to score for Accrington Stanley in a lower league :pac:

Way to miss the point.

His point is that Messi is ingrained in the Barca style, and it's built around his talents. Nothing wrong with that, but the argument is he wouldn't be as effective elsewhere.

Ferguson's point is that he believes Ronaldo's effectiveness isn't as dependant on the team he plays for.

GavRedKing

I reckon if you asked 100 managers, blank cheque in the morning who would you sign, Ronaldo or Messi you'd get a near 50/50 split, the margins between picking one over the other are so tight that it shouldnt be squabbled over just sit back and enjoy their greatness, as Dunphy said and he can be hyperbolic at times, there is not another Ronaldo or Messi around at the moment coming through and their records will probably stand the test of times at Real and Barca.

tayto lover

SlickRic wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

His point is that Messi is ingrained in the Barca style, and it's built around his talents. Nothing wrong with that, but the argument is he wouldn't be as effective elsewhere.

Ferguson's point is that he believes Ronaldo's effectiveness isn't as dependant on the team he plays for.

It was sarcasm. I knew the point he was making even if i disagree with it.

SlickRic

THFC wrote: »

Great post btw, aside from the first sentence of course, I agree with everything except the last bit. Why take the opinion of his former manager as basis for your argument? It weakens it in my opinion.

It's not the basis for my argument. It's merely a support to it.

I don't agree that Ronaldo is better, as I pointed out. Former manager or not, I think the point Ferguson makes is a worthwhile one.

Vincent Vega

SlickRic wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

His point is that Messi is ingrained in the Barca style, and it's built around his talents. Nothing wrong with that, but the argument is he wouldn't be as effective elsewhere.

Ferguson's point is that he believes Ronaldo's effectiveness isn't as dependant on the team he plays for.

Fairly speculative.

He could be right, but there's no real evidence to support either claim. Who knows how Messi might adapt his playing style in different circumstances?

Both have done reasonably well at international level, but hasn't Ronaldo only done well at the two big clubs he's played for too? :rolleyes:

tayto lover

SlickRic wrote: »

It's not the basis for my argument. It's merely a support to it.

I don't agree that Ronaldo is better, as I pointed out. Former manager or not, I think the point Ferguson makes is a worthwhile one.

I don't believe Ferguson is right in what he says. He's spoofing imo.
I think Messi would do well in any team.
He is a great creator as well as finisher.

SlickRic

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't believe Ferguson is right in what he says. He's spoofing imo.
I think Messi would do well in any team.
He is a great creator as well as finisher.

He didn't say Messi wouldn't do well elsewhere to be fair to him.

Also, for the third time, I don't agree with Ferguson's assertion that Ronaldo is better. I prefer Messi.

Kobe248

tayto lover wrote: »

Again debatable.

How on earth is that debatable

Clearly you don't follow football

Have a quick wiki of the two teams

How much of the players did you know before the euros playing for Portugal

Kobe248

tayto lover wrote: »

Messi is lightyears better than Ronaldo. No question. Creates far more of his own goals too.

Nite all.

Your posts are laughable

Honestly zero facts

Just pure rubbish

Kobe248

THFC wrote: »

Can people not debate the merits of both players without the Ronaldo fanboys coming on and making statements like that? And I'm not saying you are one, by any means.

There are dipshíts on both sides of this argument, but yet it's only poor Ronaldo who people seem to come to defence of the most.

Great post btw, aside from the first sentence of course, I agree with everything except the last bit. Why take the opinion of his former manager as basis for your argument? It weakens it in my opinion.

If you honestly think there's more ronaldo fan boys than messi you need to have a quick read through some threads

Ronaldo gets more abuse than every other player added together

Messi gets defended, Ronaldo gets attacked

Trying to say otherwise makes you look very silly

Ulysses Gaze

Both brilliant players. Both in the top 10 of all time.

Do we really need to debate this anymore?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

SlickRic wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

His point is that Messi is ingrained in the Barca style, and it's built around his talents. Nothing wrong with that, but the argument is he wouldn't be as effective elsewhere.

Ferguson's point is that he believes Ronaldo's effectiveness isn't as dependant on the team he plays for.

Aye, that's Ferguson's point of view, the manager who was like a father to him and guided him from a talented teenager to the best player in the world. I, personally, think it's utter shít, but again, that's opinion, you simply cannot say it as fact.

SlickRic wrote: »

It's not the basis for my argument. It's merely a support to it.

I don't agree that Ronaldo is better, as I pointed out. Former manager or not, I think the point Ferguson makes is a worthwhile one.

You're right, it was poorly worded. To clarify, taking Ferguson's opinion on the matter is as useless as taking Pep's. Both are far too biased.

Kobe248 wrote: »

If you honestly think there's more ronaldo fan boys than messi you need to have a quick read through some threads

Ronaldo gets more abuse than every other player added together

Messi gets defended, Ronaldo gets attacked

Trying to say otherwise makes you look very silly

Ok, I'm silly. I'm a big silly billy. You are, obviously, 100% correct with what you said though.

shrewdness

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Both brilliant players. Both in the top 10 of all time.

Do we really need to debate this anymore?

It will be debated as long as both are playing, and probably long after. Any time either has a significant moment or success this thread will resurface.

Fully agree with you, both will go down as among the very best. Nothing more to add right now as I've said it all before, you could argue either way but there's not the "light years" between them as some seem to want to stress.

Faugheen

shrewdness wrote: »

It will be debated as long as both are playing, and probably long after. Any time either has a significant moment or success this thread will resurface.

Fully agree with you, both will go down as among the very best. Nothing more to add right now as I've said it all before, you could argue either way but there's not the "light years" between them as some seem to want to stress.

This is exactly what I've been debating for the last few pages. People seem to think Messi is untouchable, when it's completely false.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Me too. Messi every time.

Would you prefer him to be your team mate for his bullying of youth players, for his stropping and walking away from his team like in the WC Final, or for his quitting in the face of adversity?

Billy86

speedboatchase wrote: »

I've never understood the complete lack of respect Messi fans have for Ronaldo. For me these are the two players of all time. Some years Messi has a better season, some years Ronaldo is better. Messi will likely be the one who will be better remembered, but there is no "light years ahead" difference between them. "Light years" is the distance between Messi/Ronaldo and whoever is the third best player in the world.

The anti Ronaldo sentiment comes from the bitterness of knowing just how wrong they were when they decided the likes of Eamon Dunphy were right, and Ronaldo was never going to be as good as Jose Antonio Reyes.

To be fair to them, it must hurt to know that they were about as wrong anyone has ever been on anything related to football. It would probably cloud my ability to think rationally too.

It's sad but it's also quite hilarious; here we are watching arguably the two greatest players of all time, at the same time, and they can't even see it because they can't bring themselves to admit how hilariously wrong they were about one of those two.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Again debatable.

Really? Take Ronaldo out of this Portugal team and they don't get out of the groups in this tournament, and don't even get to the last WC.

What positions do you think Portugal has better players than Argentina in?

dfx-

SlickRic wrote: »

The butthurt over Ronaldo never ceases to be highly amusing.

I've no doubt that pretty much the entirety of people's dislike of the man, and what clouds their judgment of him as a player, is the fact he comes across as an arrogant fúcker on the football pitch. And that is such a stupid way to judge a player.

Forget tonight, as he was gone after 25 minutes and had little to no bearing on the game.

In arguably Portugal's two biggest games, he scores two and assists one against Hungary to help them out of the group, and in the semis, he scores one and assists one (though granted, it was lucky).

The man has won 3 Ballon D'Ors and could well now win another.
He's won multiple Champions Leagues with 2 different teams.
He's won League titles.
He's won domestic Cups.
He's won Pichichis.
He's won the Premier League's Golden Boot.
And they're just the awards.

He's redefined himself.

At first, he was a tricky winger. He moulded himself into a terrorising wide forward who largely redefined that position in terms of the goal output expected of a player in that position.

He then moves centrally and breaks most records under the sun at Real Madrid.

His body then starts acting up. Fully in tune with what his body can do, he explicitly turns himself into a pure goalscoring centre forward. He dribbles less, does less outside the box than ever, but he's now become a predator.

The lad is a genius. A genius who is underappreciated because people think they know him because of his persona on the pitch. It's scandalous.

I prefer Messi. But the difference between the two is miniscule when it comes to it.

Sir Alex Ferguson described it quite perfectly when he was in Dublin recently. He was asked who he thought was better. He answered Ronaldo. I don't agree, but his reasoning was nonetheless spot on. I'm paraphrasing below.

'Messi is phenomenal. He looks like he plays in his slippers. But he's a Barcelona player, and always will be. The difference is, you stick Ronaldo in any team in the world, even Accrington Stanley, and he'll score you goals. He has two good feet, is quick, strong and phenomenal in the air'.

Perfectly put.

A lot of the argument comes from Ronaldo fans and Messi fans arguing both are equal. You cannot dismiss the persona on the pitch as lightly as you have. It is a major difference, perhaps the major difference between the two.

It's not about records or what either of them has won, they've both won lots and lots. A pichichi here or a ballon d'or there in the difference. Messi has reinvented himself as much within one club as a frontman, wide player, creative player and now supplier to Suarez. For all the things you list, Messi matches it where possible.

So their style, teamwork, natural talent, drive, attitude - beit petulance or game-playing - do come into play. Intangible, never ending preferences who will attract one fan over the other.

kfallon

Is there some unwritten rule that you can't like/admire both?

Messi & Ronaldo are fantastic footballers, none of them are my cup of tea as people but you can't deny both have been the best around since probably Ronaldo/Zidane/Ronaldinho era.

Anyone who tries to put down their careers in favour of the other's is clueless...or a complete liar!

mansize

Ronaldo is now a great in the pantheon of football greats

CSF

kfallon wrote: »

Is there some unwritten rule that you can't like/admire both?

Messi & Ronaldo are fantastic footballers, none of them are my cup of tea as people but you can't deny both have been the best around since probably Ronaldo/Zidane/Ronaldinho era.

Anyone who tries to put down their careers in favour of the other's is clueless...or a complete liar!

A lot of it stems from the vitriol that constantly gets, I personally think Messi is an all-time great and a pleasure to watch.

tayto lover

Kobe248 wrote: »

Your posts are laughable

Honestly zero facts

Just pure rubbish

You are looking at my posts through rose-tinted glasses.
I have watched football for 50 plus years.
Messi is the best without doubt.

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

Really? Take Ronaldo out of this Portugal team and they don't get out of the groups in this tournament, and don't even get to the last WC.

What positions do you think Portugal has better players than Argentina in?

Oddly they won without him last night then :rolleyes:

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

Would you prefer him to be your team mate for his bullying of youth players, for his stropping and walking away from his team like in the WC Final, or for his quitting in the face of adversity?

You could say that even against managers like Jose.
You could say that Ronaldo is quite petulant too with his diving and claiming foul play etc.

Faugheen

tayto lover wrote: »

Oddly they won without him last night then :rolleyes:

Yeah, but they don't get there without him...

As for your 'I've been watching football for over 50 years' lark, that suddenly doesn't make you this pantheon of knowledge as you've showcased ITT that you can't keep an argument together.

Get down off your high horse.

Iang87

It'll always be messi for me and last night changes nothing. Measuring players on international achievements is a joke. There's a belief its a higher standard than club football. I find that laughable so don't know why this measurement is used so often

Shanotheslayer

In two minds about how Ronaldo acted last night on the side lines.

On one side it shows his passion and his will to win.

On the other side, shows lack of respect to manager. Never before have I seen it. Unless I'm wrong in saying that?

His will to win is truely incredible.

Things I like about Ronaldo: Passion,physique. Committment

Things I don't like: Arrogance. What really winds me up is his Free Kicks. Hes awful at them. Yet always wants to take them. It's the equivalent of Messi with Pens. Drives me insane.

Ronaldo is a much better penalty taker. Messi much better at free kicks.

Bale should be on RM free kicks and Suarez on Pens.

As for who I prefer? Messi. But that takes nothing away from Ronaldo.He's insane.

eagle eye

Iang87 wrote: »

It'll always be messi for me and last night changes nothing. Measuring players on international achievements is a joke. There's a belief its a higher standard than club football. I find that laughable so don't know why this measurement is used so often

Regardless of the standard International football competitions are considered by the majority as more important.

For me that follows football 24/7, I still think the World Cup is the greatest competition on earth.

The fact that you have to play with players from your country and not be part of a super rich club who can buy 11+ elite footballers makes it a bigger test imo.

Players should be judged on both club and international achievements. Maradona did it at both domestic and international level without world class players around him.

Ronaldo has won the Champion's league with two different clubs. I don't think anybody would pick three other players from the United team he won the CL with as all-time greats.

Messi's wins have all come in teams full of elite level players.He has failed to ignite a pretty talented Argentinian squad. It's a lot easier to score goals in teams like those Barcelona ones, it's a lot easier to look good in teams like that. He has looked distinctly ordinary on occasion for his country. It's the only time we get to see him in a team where he is not surrounded by the best in the world.

Personally I'd much rather a World Cup winner's medal or a Euro's winner's medal or even an Olympic football medal to a Champion's league one or any other competition.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Portugal were able to win the Euopean Championships Final without Ronaldo, surely that counts against him seeing as Spain winning without Messi is always held against him.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Oddly they won without him last night then :rolleyes:

The bitterness off of your posts is nothing short of incredible.

They don't win yesterday if he doesn't get them out of the groups, now do they?

Now go ahead and tell us the positions where Portugal are better than Argentina.

Rayne Wooney

Ronaldo is a better footballer, Messi is marginally more entertaining to watch.

At the end of the day football is a sport, and in a life or death situation where you had to pick either, in a team of unknown quality, to win you a game it's Ronaldo every single day of the week. Messi is a globetrotter, under perfect circumstances he is great.

Messi has always had a complete advantage in quality players surrounding him, Ronaldo being able to match him almost blow for blow under those circumstances, playing for different club teams too, is what sets him apart.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Portugal were able to win the Euopean Championships Final without Ronaldo, surely that counts against him seeing as Spain winning without Messi is always held against him.

Portugal don't get to that final without him though. Missing 60-70 minutes of the final is a little bit different to never, ever having played a minute for them or trained with them once in his career.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo is a better footballer, Messi is marginally more entertaining to watch.

At the end of the day football is a sport, and in a life or death situation where you had to pick either, in a team of unknown quality, to win you a game it's Ronaldo every single day of the week. Messi is a globetrotter, under perfect circumstances he is great.

Messi has always had a complete advantage in quality players surrounding him, Ronaldo being able to match him almost blow for blow under those circumstances, playing for different club teams too, is what sets him apart.

Ronaldo has been surrounded by great club players all his career aswell.

I'd argue being able to keep your standards so high while playing for the same team is what sets Messi apart, it's much easier to motivate yourself to play when you change clubs and have to prove yourself to a new set of team mates and fans.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Portugal were able to win the Euopean Championships without Ronaldo, surely that counts against him seeing as Spain winning without Messi is always held against him.

Ronaldo score three goals and had three assists in the tournament.

They wouldn't have got out of the group stages without his two goals and one assist against Hungary. It was his shot that Subasic could only block into the patch of Quaresma in the last sixteen. It was his goal that put them on their way to the final and his assist that put them two up in that game.

He made a major contribution to their winning the tournament.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

Portugal don't get to that final without him though. Missing 60-70 minutes of the final is a little bit different to never, ever having played a minute for them or trained with them once in his career.

They still could win the final without him.

It's daft suggestion I made but it's always held against Messi that Spain could succeed without him (people of course forget that david Vailla played for Spain and is a pretty great player himself) so why are the same standards not applicable to Ronaldo who basically was not needed for his team to win the biggest game of all.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Ronaldo has been surrounded by great club players all his career aswell.

I'd argue being able to keep your standards so high while playing for the same team is what sets Messi apart, it's much easier to motivate yourself to play when you change clubs and have to prove yourself to a new set of team mates and fans.

It's easier to move to a different club, in a different country, with a different language, and a different culture (both on and off the pitch), to entirely new team mates, with the pressure of the highest price tag in the world... that's easier than staying in the same place where you've been raised since a kid, surrounded by many of the best-of-the-best talents out there some of whom you have been playing with since before your balls dropped?

Sorry, can't agree on that one.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They still could win the final without him.

It's daft suggestion I made but it's always held against Messi that Spain could succeed without him (people of course forget that david Vailla played for Spain and is a pretty great player himself) so why are the same standards not applicable to Ronaldo who basically was not needed for his team to win the biggest game of all.

It's not about one game, it's a tournament.

Messi has only won when surrounded by the best players in the world. Ronaldo has won with lesser teams. They weren't bad or even average teams but the United team that won the CL had a lot of players who wouldn't get into a Barca, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich side.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

It's easier to move to a different club, in a different country, with a different language, and a different culture (both on and off the pitch), to entirely new team mates, with the pressure of the highest price tag in the world... that's easier than staying in the same place where you've been raised since a kid, surrounded by many of the best-of-the-best talents out there some of whom you have been playing with since before your balls dropped?

Sorry, can't agree on that one.

To keep youself motivated while having achived everything already at a club must be more difficult.

Messi has nothing to prove anymore in Barcelona and yet he still keeps his standards high .

I'd imagine a lot of players move in order to not get bored of playing in the same place and therefore it makes it easier for them to motivate themselves.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They still could win the final without him.

It's daft suggestion I made but it's always held against Messi that Spain could succeed without him (people of course forget that david Vailla played for Spain and is a pretty great player himself) so why are the same standards not applicable to Ronaldo who basically was not needed for his team to win the biggest game of all.

Because they are not even close to the same thing.

You might as well say Roy Keane played no role in winning the Champions League for Man Utd in 1999 since he missed the final, and try and claim it's only fair to do so since people slag of David May for celebrating so much when he barely played a minute of the whole tournament.

So really, David May and Roy Keane were as important to that treble winning Man Utd team... right?

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

It's not about one game, it's a tournament.

Messi has only won when surrounded by the best players in the world. Ronaldo has won with lesser teams. They weren't bad or even average teams but the United team that won the CL had a lot of players who wouldn't get into a Barca, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich side.

Vidic and Ferdinand are better than any of Barclona's defenders.Evra was one of the best left backs in the world and Van derSaar is better than any goalie Barclona have ever had.Scholes,Rooney and Tevez were all top class players aswell in the Man Utd team he played in.

Bale,Ramos,Pepe,Kroos,Benzema,Modric,Di Maria,Ozil were all great players taht Ronalod has played with in Spain.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

To keep youself motivated while having achived everything already at a club must be more difficult.

Messi has nothing to prove anymore in Barcelona and yet he still keeps his standards high .

I'd imagine a lot of players move in order to not get bored of playing in the same place and therefore it makes it easier for them to motivate themselves.

I've already outlined how Ronaldo's achievement tougher, and I don't see how being surrounded by the guts of the best national team in the history of the game would make it harder to get motivated. Once that group left, Suarez and Neymar came in. When you keep getting bought extremely expensive new toys (and there is nothing wrong with that, the squad needed a change up due to age) it really can't be too difficult to motivate yourself - that's always easier when you're winning.

It could just as easily be put down to a lack of will to truly test himself in another country or outside his 'safe space' of the Nou Camp, but to be fair I think that would be quite harsh also. That said, the curiosity in me would love to see him in another league at some point (though I'm resigned to the fact if that does happen, he'll almost surely be 31/32+ at the time).

Guy:Incognito

How many Europeans championships has Messi won?

BOOM!


Case closed.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

Because they are not even close to the same thing.

You might as well say Roy Keane played no role in winning the Champions League for Man Utd in 1999 since he missed the final, and try and claim it's only fair to do so since people slag of David May for celebrating so much when he barely played a minute of the whole tournament.

So really, David May and Roy Keane were as important to that treble winning Man Utd team... right?

I just said it was a daft suggestion but I was using it to illustrate the point that it is always held againt Messi that he hasn't done it at international level despite reaching 4 international finals with Argentina and failing to get over the line.

This will be used to big up Ronaldo despite his team being able to get over the line without him on the field.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

I've already outlined how Ronaldo's achievement tougher, and I don't see how being surrounded by the guts of the best national team in the history of the game would make it harder to get motivated. Once that group left, Suarez and Neymar came in. When you keep getting bought extremely expensive new toys (and there is nothing wrong with that, the squad needed a change up due to age) it really can't be too difficult to motivate yourself - that's always easier when you're winning.

It could just as easily be put down to a lack of will to truly test himself in another country or outside his 'safe space' of the Nou Camp, but to be fair I think that would be quite harsh also. That said, the curiosity in me would love to see him in another league at some point (though I'm resigned to the fact if that does happen, he'll almost surely be 31/32+ at the time).

Owen Hargreaves said he left Bayern Munich because it as becoming boring and needed a new challenge.I suspect that is the reason a lot of players move as once they win with one club they've done their job and can start a new spell.I'd imagine it's quite difficult to play at a very high level for the one club over your whole career and being able to motivate yourself over and over again despite achieving everything for the club must be extremely difficult and I would say more difficult than having a fresh challenge.For lifestyle reasons it would obviously be easier but for career reasons a lot of people need a new challenge to keep their standards up and I'd say professional sport is no different.

runnerholic

Messi is the better footballer. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer. I think Ronaldo had a poor tournament by the standards you would hold an all time great to. Messi's performances in the last world cup were way ahead of what Ronaldo did at that tournament and what he did at this one. Ronaldo wasn't even Portugals best player, an accolade I'd give to Sanchez. I don't think Ronaldo is even close to Messi's level despite his incredible stats.