Messi Or Ronaldo?

sReq | uTeK

Vincent Vega wrote: »

I've tried and I've tried and I continue to try, but up to now I just cannot overlook Ronaldo's negative antics when I think of him as a player.

No disputing that he's an absolute behemoth as far as goalscoring goes, one of the best there has ever been, but sometimes his attitude is a real turn off.

Watching Real Madrid, it becomes tiring to see him constantly getting onto other players, and no, not because they aren't performing, but because they didn't pass to him, because they dared to take a shot instead of helping him add to his goal tally. Throwing his arms up in a strop, sometimes even becoming disinterested in games because he isn't the sole centre of attention. Whinging and moaning at officials. Some might refer to that as 'great leadership' or 'a passion to win', but to me it's just egocentric childishness.

And sure, he's not half wasteful either... sometimes taking any and every chance under the sun to shoot, no matter where his teammates might be positioned.

In no way are these failings something I'd gloat about, I honestly want to like the guy, damn I even felt pretty bummed out for him when he was taken off, and relatively happy to see him lift the cup... but to be honest it's probably one of the most frustrating things in football for me, being unable to simply appreciate this guy for the great player he can be.

What i prefer about Messi is that he has this tendency just get on with the game.

Therein lies the difference.

I think you're viewing them through rose tinted glasses. Messi didn't want to get on with the game sitting outside of a team talk in the world cup final.

Look they both do it, they're both as bad as each other, its just one seems to get significantly more hatred aimed towards them.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Donnielighto wrote: »

Messi isnt fast?


Edit: and not a notion would I tax dodge, it's being a petty criminal and stealing off everyone you know

Lots of people would dodge tax.Hundreds of thousands haven't paid there water charges yet.

Vincent Vega

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I think you're viewing them through rose tinted glasses. Messi didn't want to get on with the game sitting outside of a team talk in the world cup final.

Look they both do it, they're both as bad as each other, its just one seems to get significantly more hatred aimed towards them.

What an absolutely outlandish claim!

Which you've suitably backed up by referring to an incident that wasn't even during the run of play.

Interesting to see you went with numerous tabloid level articles written off the back of a 6 second Vine clip.
https://vine.co/v/MxjWOHhlgFw

If you'd went to the source you'd have seen that Sabella is already a minute or so into addressing them and Messi nips out of the circle for approximately 5 seconds near the end of his team talk, and then rejoins...

You can see that here

Ronaldo has his detractors because of the things he does frequently and has done fairly consistently throughout his career.

I think if people want to give him a pass and let slide his sometimes brattish behaviour just because he's one of the best players in the world we may as well all let Pepe off the hook too and embrace him, because he's an absolutely world class defender when he gets down to it.

I honestly feel that many Ronaldo fans suffer from some sort of severe victim complex.

After whatever incident, they always seem to rally around in his defence to say he gets unfairly shat on, all the while managing to dismiss even the most reasonable or well meaning criticism as stemming purely from blind hatred or jealousy.:pac:

kfallon

Vincent Vega wrote: »

I think if people want to give him a pass and let slide his sometimes brattish behaviour just because he's one of the best players in the world we may as well all let Pepe off the hook too and embrace him, because he's an absolutely world class defender when he gets down to it.

What about Messi throwing a shítfit after being left out against Sociedad in January 2015 and ringing in 'sick' the following day, the day the squad were supposed to visit a hospital for sick children where no doubt he would have been the star attraction for all the youngsters. Toys out of the pram stuff. If Ronaldo had done this you'd never hear the end of it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/lionel-messi-future-barcelona-squad-hold-crisis-talks-with-messi-amid-rift-at-the-nou-camp-9962494.html

FWIW, I think both are cúnts but you can't argue they are great players. Just appreciate them for their talents, one doesn't have to be better than the other.

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

What about Messi throwing a shítfit after being left out against Sociedad in January 2015 and ringing in 'sick' the following day, the day the squad were supposed to visit a hospital for sick children where no doubt he would have been the star attraction for all the youngsters. Toys out of the pram stuff. If Ronaldo had done this you'd never hear the end of it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/lionel-messi-future-barcelona-squad-hold-crisis-talks-with-messi-amid-rift-at-the-nou-camp-9962494.html

FWIW, I think both are cúnts but you can't argue they are great players. Just appreciate them for their talents, one doesn't have to be better than the other.

Not gonna do the song and dance again about that but there's far more to that story than you've put in there and if you speak to the right people they'd tell you it was an act taken out of love for FC Barcelona and it was brave and it made us love Leo only more.

Donnielighto

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Lots of people would dodge tax.Hundreds of thousands haven't paid there water charges yet.

That's slightly different in that a lot of those disagree with it an are doing so as a matter of principle. It's not at the same level though I would hold them against anyone who does either, it is not a valid defence of messi.

LuckyLloyd

Always love the analysis of 'oh Ronaldo is a prick because he gives out to his team and complains when he doesn't get the ball all the time'. And yet Ronaldo is always Captain and seems to be beloved by his teammates.

The person watching on the tele must be correct of course...

Donnielighto

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not gonna do the song and dance again about that but there's far more to that story than you've put in there and if you speak to the right people they'd tell you it was an act taken out of love for FC Barcelona and it was brave and it made us love Leo only more.

No true Scotsman.

Mec27

Ronaldo would defo be annoying as a teammate.

"If we were all at my level, maybe we would be leaders," Ronaldo was quoted as saying in Spanish newspaper Marca.

"I don't want to disrespect anyone, but when the best players aren't available it's harder to win. I like to play with Karim, with Bale, with Marcelo.

"I'm not saying the others like Lucas [Vazquez], Jese and [Mateo] Kovacic are not good players - they are very good players - but it's not the same.

He just has that kind of personality that would be annoying, he's just lucky he is so good.

Billy86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not gonna do the song and dance again about that but there's far more to that story than you've put in there and if you speak to the right people they'd tell you it was an act taken out of love for FC Barcelona and it was brave and it made us love Leo only more.

Of course it only made you and Barca fans love Messi more, you guys had the same reaction when he was caught dodging taxes.

Rayne Wooney

chopperbyrne wrote: »

http://messivsronaldo.net/

So messi has averaged just 6 more assists per season than Ronaldo in la liga yet messi is supposedly worlds apart at creating?

Andersonisgod

Billy86 wrote: »

Of course it only made you and Barca fans love Messi more, you guys had the same reaction when he was caught dodging taxes.

I wouldn't say it made us love Leo more, but it does only strengthen the feeling of system bias and unfairness levelled against Barcelona and those who identify with the club.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not gonna do the song and dance again about that but there's far more to that story than you've put in there and if you speak to the right people they'd tell you it was an act taken out of love for FC Barcelona and it was brave and it made us love Leo only more.

So letting down sick kids was a brave move? Come off it, it was a scummy thing to do. He could have put his differences aside for one morning and then taken up his 'crusade' after that and done all his 'brave' deeds for FC Barcelona.

The right people, is that just you?

jaykay74

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not gonna do the song and dance again about that but there's far more to that story than you've put in there and if you speak to the right people they'd tell you it was an act taken out of love for FC Barcelona and it was brave and it made us love Leo only more.

I know how those sick kids felt. Pass the bucket.

SlickRic

Mec27 wrote: »

Ronaldo would defo be annoying as a teammate.

yet, to a man, the Portugal team and manager have had nothing but praise for how he lead the team on Sunday.

arrogance works sometimes. if he's confident enough that he believes his team can win, then you know what, players will sometimes follow that.

I think we as Irish are just suspicious of people who are arrogrant. We don't like it. We don't like people telling us how good they are.

Billy86

kfallon wrote: »

So letting down sick kids was a brave move? Come off it, it was a scummy thing to do. He could have put his differences aside for one morning and then taken up his 'crusade' after that and done all his 'brave' deeds for FC Barcelona.

The right people, is that just you?

The 'right' people are the people that will do anything and everything they possibly can to avoid anything even resembling criticism of Messi. If you want an example, apparently now when Messi breaks the law it is the laws fault for being biased against him! :pac:

Mec27

SlickRic wrote: »

yet, to a man, the Portugal team and manager have had nothing but praise for how he lead the team on Sunday.

arrogance works sometimes. if he's confident enough that he believes his team can win, then you know what, players will sometimes follow that.

I think we as Irish are just suspicious of people who are arrogrant. We don't like it. We don't like people telling us how good they are.

Yeah but it would still get annoying as ****, they clearly are gana tolerate him because he is so good. Did you watch the CR7 movie? He seems an odd person.

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

So letting down sick kids was a brave move? Come off it, it was a scummy thing to do. He could have put his differences aside for one morning and then taken up his 'crusade' after that and done all his 'brave' deeds for FC Barcelona.

The right people, is that just you?

Wouldn't have had the same punch. The moment to act was then, the time had come, Messi finally had enough and if those kids love Barcelona then they should hail Messi.

Perhaps this is going to go into rant territory but the Madrid/Mendes media machine would have you be castigated for supporting Messi as though it were a shameful thing. Messi has so exceeded the expectations of everyone. A prodigious talent at 13 years of age when he moved from Rosario to Barcelona, his talent with a football was clear for all to see, however what was also clear is that he was a tiny, shy boy with a heavy Rosario accent a long way from home. When a club invests in a young kids it's a gamble that often doesn't pay off. His size might be too much of an obstacle, injuries might take a toll before he gets into the first team, he might not have the dedication required at that level, he might be mentally weak and not able to cope with the expectations, his lifestyle might stop him fulfilling his potential. On top of these risks the club are paying for expensive growth hormones. The odds say it's a gamble not worth taking.

However what has emerged from that gamble has gone above and beyond what anybody could have expected. Sure, some tipped him for greatness, some even said he could become the best player ever. He has done exactly that but where Messi has exceeded expectations is how he has developed as a person. What you see before you is a humble man, comfortable in his own skin, you see a person willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. You see somebody who is willing to do the things that require doing but which others would shy away from.

He has met all of the expectations expected of him on the pitch, he has far exceeded any expectations of the person he would become. He is our player, but hes more than just a player. He is a leader, our leader, and someone I could not be any prouder to say represents our great club.

And that's my rant finished. I'm so sick of the negative and incorrect media he gets.

kfallon

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

Mec27

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Wouldn't have had the same punch. The moment to act was then, the time had come, Messi finally had enough and if those kids love Barcelona then they should hail Messi.

Perhaps this is going to go into rant territory but the Madrid/Mendes media machine would have you be castigated for supporting Messi as though it were a shameful thing. Messi has so exceeded the expectations of everyone. A prodigious talent at 13 years of age when he moved from Rosario to Barcelona, his talent with a football was clear for all to see, however what was also clear is that he was a tiny, shy boy with a heavy Rosario accent a long way from home. When a club invests in a young kids it's a gamble that often doesn't pay off. His size might be too much of an obstacle, injuries might take a toll before he gets into the first team, he might not have the dedication required at that level, he might be mentally weak and not able to cope with the expectations, his lifestyle might stop him fulfilling his potential. On top of these risks the club are paying for expensive growth hormones. The odds say it's a gamble not worth taking.

However what has emerged from that gamble has gone above and beyond what anybody could have expected. Sure, some tipped him for greatness, some even said he could become the best player ever. He has done exactly that but where Messi has exceeded expectations is how he has developed as a person. What you see before you is a humble man, comfortable in his own skin, you see a person willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. You see somebody who is willing to do the things that require doing but which others would shy away from.

He has met all of the expectations expected of him on the pitch, he has far exceeded any expectations of the person he would become. He is our player, but hes more than just a player. He is a leader, our leader, and someone I could not be any prouder to say represents our great club.

And that's my rant finished. I'm so sick of the negative and incorrect media he gets.

man you are legit cringe worthy as ****, but i did like the opening part of this post.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

if those kids love Barcelona then they should hail Messi.

this is fúcking disgusting.

Mec27

SlickRic wrote: »

yet, to a man, the Portugal team and manager have had nothing but praise for how he lead the team on Sunday.

arrogance works sometimes. if he's confident enough that he believes his team can win, then you know what, players will sometimes follow that.

I think we as Irish are just suspicious of people who are arrogrant. We don't like it. We don't like people telling us how good they are.

Judging by the best fans in the world stuff not sure how much I buy this

MD1990

Much of the Irish GAA community are certainly not lacking in arrogance or just being deluded. For example many think GAA players are now fitter that PL players etc.

Mec27

I've seen that yeah, mongs, so a tiny island drawing on a playing pool from the island is going to have fitter players than elite tier footballers drawn from all over the world. The GAA thinks because their players start bench pressing and drinking protein shakes that the players are elite tier athletes

Nalz

kfallon wrote: »

FWIW, I think both are cúnts

nice! :cool:

darced

This post has been deleted.

Rayne Wooney

darced wrote: »

He leads him in assists by 30 and has played 160 less games. pretty conclusive.

What?

That site says Messi has played 22 more games than Ronaldo

Dirty Dingus McGee

MD1990 wrote: »

Much of the Irish GAA community are certainly not lacking in arrogance or just being deluded. For example many think GAA players are now fitter that PL players etc.

What the hell has that got to do with Lionel Messi or Ronaldo.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Mec27 wrote: »

I've seen that yeah, mongs, so a tiny island drawing on a playing pool from the island is going to have fitter players than elite tier footballers drawn from all over the world. The GAA thinks because their players start bench pressing and drinking protein shakes that the players are elite tier athletes

But Aussie Rules players are almost certainly fitter than Soccer players and they are drawn from a very small playing pool compared to soccer.

You do know that it is possible to be fitter than a professional soccer player and not be from a big country.

Every single athlete that gets to an olympic final on the track in Rio will be a better athlete than 99% of professional soccer players.A lot of those athletes come from small countries.

Your point is pure bull in fairness.

Using the word mong often in your posts is quite enlightening.

darced

This post has been deleted.

GLaDOS

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

What the hell has that got to do with Lionel Messi or Ronaldo.

Messi once lined out for the Kilkenny minor Hurling team when over in Ireland on Erasmus.

Ronaldo, naturally, played for Tipp.

Rayne Wooney

darced wrote: »

Messi has played a total of 644 games Ronaldo has played 804 games.

The point of it is to compare them both in la liga

Messi have averaged just 6 more assists in la liga than Ronaldo per season, despite playing 22 more games than him. Conclusive my ass

Shanotheslayer

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The point of it is to compare them both in la liga

Why? Why exclude Ronaldos stats prior?

Rayne Wooney

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Why? Why exclude Ronaldos stats prior?

Because it's going to be the best way to get a good picture even though messi had a significant advantage with the team he was in.

we have no idea how Messi would perform outside the comfort of the Barca globetrotters to be honest.

LuckyLloyd

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Why? Why exclude Ronaldos stats prior?

It's generally good to compare apples to apples.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Because it's going to be the best way to get a good picture even though messi had a significant advantage with the team he was in.

we have no idea how Messi would perform outside the comfort of the Barca globetrotters to be honest.

How do you reckon he would do.

Rayne Wooney

darced wrote: »

Why just use La Liga? because it suits your point which still points to Messi being consistently ahead in assists.

Messi is a better goalscorer and has better assist numbers.

Jonathan Viera for Las Palmas had more goals and double the assists Coutinho had last season.

He's clearly the better player out of the two right?

darced

This post has been deleted.

GLaDOS

The problem with using La Liga only is Ronaldo was hitting his peak as he entered La Liga, while Messi had been playing in La Liga since he was 17 and wasn't as prolific because was still learning. That's gonna skew that stats in favour of Ronaldo.

MD1990

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

What the hell has that got to do with Lionel Messi or Ronaldo.

I was responding to a post referring to Ireland not liking arrogance,

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But Aussie Rules players are almost fitter than Soccer players and they are drawn from a very small playing pool compared to soccer.

You do know that it is possible to be fitter than a professional soccer player and not be from a big country.

Every single athlete that gets to an olympic final on the track in Rio will be a better athlete than 99% of professional soccer players.A lot of those athletes come from small countries.

Your point is pure bull in fairness.

Using the word mong often in your posts is quite enlightening.

Aussie Rules is a professional sport & no they would not be fitter than PL or top level footballers.
Olympic athletes are not the norm they are genetically gifted & of course they are the definition of elite athletes.
GAA in no way should be compared to pro football players. It's complete delusion to think they are fitter than players training everyday,playing x5 as many games,90 minute games,picked from all over the world not just in some cases like Fermanagh from a pick of 18 clubs.
GAA players are no fitter than LOI players. And if an LOI team played a top team from any of the leagues across Europe they would struggle badly.

Billy86

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The problem with using La Liga only is Ronaldo was hitting his peak as he entered La Liga, while Messi had been playing in La Liga since he was 17 and wasn't as prolific because was still learning. That's gonna skew that stats in favour of Ronaldo.

Best comparison in that sense is prob Messi 08/0- present vs Ronaldo 07/08 (when he hit peak) or 09/10 (when he joined madrid) - present.

Shanotheslayer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's generally good to compare apples to apples.

Generally best to compare somebodys career. When discussing ''Who's better''

But Hey, whatever suits your argument

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Because it's going to be the best way to get a good picture even though messi had a significant advantage with the team he was in.

we have no idea how Messi would perform outside the comfort of the Barca globetrotters to be honest.

In the 7 years since Ronaldo was in la liga. Real have scored 768 goals and barca have scored 761 goals. What exactly is this advantage that Messi has.

Rayne Wooney

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

In the 7 years since Ronaldo was in la liga. Real have scored 768 goals and barca have scored 761 goals. What exactly is this advantage that Messi has.

Liverpool scored 5 less goals than Leicester last season, why didn't they come close to winning the league?

Shanotheslayer

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Liverpool scored 5 less goals than Leicester last season, why didn't they come close to winning the league?

Lawl.

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Liverpool scored 5 less goals than Leicester last season, why didn't they come close to winning the league?

We are talking about assists which are obviously linked to goals. You said messi has an advantage because of the team he plays for. I've pointed out to you that Ronaldo's team scored more goals than Barcelona in the last 7 years so what is this advantage you are talking about.

Billy86

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

In the 7 years since Ronaldo was in la liga. Real have scored 768 goals and barca have scored 761 goals. What exactly is this advantage that Messi has.

In that time if my maths is correct Barca have 668 points, to Madrid's 642.

MD1990

I would say Messi has had slightly better team mates tbh.
For instance Xavi & Iniesta both finished in the top 3 for the Ballon D'or none of Ronaldo's team mates at Real have.

Billy86

MD1990 wrote: »

I would Messi has had slightly better team mates tbh.
For instance Xavi & Iniesta both finished in the top 3 for the Ballon D'or none of Ronaldo's team mates at Real have.

Possibly the best midfield combo of all time, anywhere, ever, it has to be mentioned. Not to mention Busquets and Yaya before him in behind to let them play at their very best.