Messi Or Ronaldo?

chrissb8

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I don't think so, he relies on his pace and power and those two things don't age too well.

Well considering he can score from 40 odd yards, pick out a pass, cross, amazing heading ability, Wonderful feet I think he can afford to lose his pace a bit or power. A man like him though and the way he's built I can't see him physically declining for years. He is literally the most in shape man in football. I think all the extra training he does on his own will pay dividends to him from here on out. Considering he has never had a big injury he is in perfectly good nick physically. Generally what happens to fast players is they get slowed down by injuries over the years as opposed to just magically losing their pace in their 30's. It's a cumulative result of that and a bit of age.

Anyway! As you can tell I clearly think Ronaldo is miles better then Messi. The guy has carried teams over lines and hurdles. So many facets to his game and just pure entertainment. I do think the xavi and iniesta thing plays into Messi being considered the best. Messi is more team based and although scores individual goals you can see Ronaldo shine individually on a weekly basis. Two brilliant players but at least this season Ronaldo has been insanely good. I just can't wait for the world cup!!!

Kirby

Both players rely on their pace. Both will suffer as they lose it. That is just common sense.

Richard Hillman

Kirby wrote: »

Both players rely on their pace. Both will suffer as they lose it. That is just common sense.

My theory is that Ronaldo is such a freak that he wont lose his pace until later than most. Even as a 29 year old, most footballers are starting to lose peak physical performance. Ronaldo is continuing to excel himself physically. I think he can be footballs version of Jerry Rice (NFL).

Oregano_State

With the way sports science is progressing it may become more common to see players that look after themselves and don't get injured, keep performing close to their best well into their thirties.
It would be great for football if Ronnie and Messi became part of that group.


I prefer Ronaldo, but I think it's hard to compare them because they're so different.

Forgot to add that there's a sprinter called. Kim Collins that broke his PB last year in the 100m at the age of 37. That would be impressive in itself, but this lad is running under 10s.

Just shows that speed does not necessarily disappear once you hit 32/33.

Kirby

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My theory is that Ronaldo is such a freak that he wont lose his pace until later than most. Even as a 29 year old, most footballers are starting to lose peak physical performance. Ronaldo is continuing to excel himself physically. I think he can be footballs version of Jerry Rice (NFL).

Well It's possible I suppose. Ronaldo does work hard. And guys like Sylvan Distin have proven its possible to remain fairly quick at an advanced age.

It's rare though. Most footballers slow down due to age and injuries. It's fairly inevitable.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

Messi has often been played when he's not fully fit because he's so important to Barcelona, that doesn't help him to get fully fit.

Do you disagree that Messi is better than Ronaldo when both a fully fit?

What I'm saying is that if, when both careers are said and done, Ronaldo maintained a consistently high output for a longer stretch then he should be adjudged the greater player overall. Ronaldo is renowned for the effort he puts into his physical wellbeing and it is paying off for him.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What I'm saying is that if, when both careers are said and done, Ronaldo maintained a consistently high output for a longer stretch then he should be adjudged the greater player overall. Ronaldo is renowned for the effort he puts into his physical wellbeing and it is paying off for him.

That's a big if.

I reckon Messi will be adjudged the better of the two by most people when all is said and done.

Too Tough To Die

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What I'm saying is that if, when both careers are said and done, Ronaldo maintained a consistently high output for a longer stretch then he should be adjudged the greater player overall. Ronaldo is renowned for the effort he puts into his physical wellbeing and it is paying off for him.

He should be considered the better player despite his best never being quite as good as Messi's best? I can't agree with that.

LuckyLloyd

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

He should be considered the better player despite his best never being quite as good as Messi's best? I can't agree with that.

You don't have to agree. Your entire career is what is weighed and measured when it's all said and done. If Ronaldinho had done his best year 12 times he'd be in this conversation. He didn't so he isn't.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You don't have to agree. Your entire career is what is weighed and measured when it's all said and done. If Ronaldinho had done his best year 12 times he'd be in this conversation. He didn't so he isn't.

You're obviously in the Ronaldo camp in this conversation but you're having to bend over backways to make your arguments. It's fairly straightforward, in a question of who is better Messi or Ronaldo? The answer is Messi.

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You don't have to agree. Your entire career is what is weighed and measured when it's all said and done. If Ronaldinho had done his best year 12 times he'd be in this conversation. He didn't so he isn't.

No he wouldn't, none of Ronaldinho's seasons comes close to Messi's 2012. 91 goals!

Ronaldo has pipped Messi in the last 2 seasons. For me its him.

Liam O

Skylinehead wrote: »

No he wouldn't, none of Ronaldinho's seasons comes close to Messi's 2012. 91 goals!

So none of Ronaldinho's seasons come close to an arbitrary calendar year for Messi? Where goals against Mickey mouse teams in the club world cup count towards his total? He was obviously spectacular but you don't have to go to such lengths to big him up.

Skylinehead

Liam O wrote: »

So none of Ronaldinho's seasons come close to an arbitrary calendar year for Messi? Where goals against Mickey mouse teams in the club world cup count towards his total? He was obviously spectacular but you don't have to go to such lengths to big him up.

I picked Messi at his best. Have that as 2011/12 or 2012/13, the result is the same. You say "Mickey mouse teams" counting towards his total - if it were that easy, why has nobody else done it?

GBXI

chrissb8 wrote: »

Anyway! As you can tell I clearly think Ronaldo is miles better then Messi. The guy has carried teams over lines and hurdles. So many facets to his game and just pure entertainment. I do think the xavi and iniesta thing plays into Messi being considered the best. Messi is more team based and although scores individual goals you can see Ronaldo shine individually on a weekly basis. Two brilliant players but at least this season Ronaldo has been insanely good. I just can't wait for the world cup!!!

The argument for Ronaldo is very weak, especially this one above. It's fine if you prefer to watch Ronaldo over Messi, I know lots of people that do, but just because you prefer watching Ronaldo, it doesn't mean he's better than Messi.

For me, Messi is the better player between the two and at 2 years younger has also been consistently at the top of his game for a longer period of time. Messi is more of a team player as well, and even though I don't have stats at hand, I would be confident in saying he provides a lot more assist for his teammates.

MaroonAndGreen

For all saying Ronaldo is having a better season, if we were to measure it on goals (which these 2 are so often measured on) then Messi has a better games to goals ratio this season than Ronaldo.

MaroonAndGreen

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

For all saying Ronaldo is having a better season, if we were to measure it on goals (which these 2 are so often measured on) then Messi has a better games to goals ratio this season than Ronaldo.

Better in the last 2 Seasons. Which is 2 years.

MaroonAndGreen

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Better in the last 2 Seasons. Which is 2 years.

I dont agree to be honest.

Still think Messi is a better player, and is doing just as good as Ronaldo. His team is just struggling a little, Messi's performances have still been exceptional, just less high profile!

Blatter

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I dont agree to be honest.

Still think Messi is a better player, and is doing just as good as Ronaldo. His team is just struggling a little, Messi's performances have still been exceptional, just less high profile!

His goalscoring has been exceptional. His performances, not so much.

Lots of Barca fans complaining that he's played to the detriment of the team this season.

GBXI

Blatter wrote: »

His goalscoring has been exceptional. His performances, not so much.

Lots of Barca fans complaining that he's played to the detriment of the team this season.

Really?

MaroonAndGreen

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I dont agree to be honest.

Still think Messi is a better player, and is doing just as good as Ronaldo. His team is just struggling a little, Messi's performances have still been exceptional, just less high profile!

His performances in the Champions League this season have been below par. Ronaldo has been exceptional.

Talib Fiasco

M!Ck^ wrote: »

His performances in the Champions League this season have been below par. Ronaldo has been exceptional.

8 goals in 7 games is below par? See this is the problem Messi has, people expect him to score 5 goals every game because he's done it in the past...give it a rest like

Talib Fiasco

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

8 goals in 7 games is below par? See this is the problem Messi has, people expect him to score 5 goals every game because he's done it in the past...give it a rest like

He done nothing to Athletico Madrid in both legs and scored no goals. His performance were below par when it mattered the most. Ronaldo has had an even better season than last year.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

You're obviously in the Ronaldo camp in this conversation but you're having to bend over backways to make your arguments. It's fairly straightforward, in a question of who is better Messi or Ronaldo? The answer is Messi.

Not recently it ain't.

hefferboi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGGDYWZP5U

such skill
much football
wow

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not recently it ain't.

For once I agree with you :eek:

ahnowbrowncow

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Better in the last 2 Seasons. Which is 2 years.

How has he been better in the last two seasons? Messi scored 12 goals more in the league than Ronaldo in two games less and was voted world player of the year.

Lennonist

Contradicting yourself now, one minute you're saying

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Your entire career is what is weighed and measured when it's all said and done.

and then soon after

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not recently it ain't.

You're on the wrong side of the argument and you know it, might as well pretend you weren't being serious all along :pac:.

shrewdness

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

For all saying Ronaldo is having a better season, if we were to measure it on goals (which these 2 are so often measured on) then Messi has a better games to goals ratio this season than Ronaldo.

He clearly doesn't.

In La Liga:
Ronaldo has 31 goals in 29 games.
Messi has 28 goals in 29 games.

All competitions:
Ronaldo has 50 goals in 45 games.
Messi has 41 goals in 44 games.

MaroonAndGreen

shrewdness wrote: »

He clearly doesn't.

In La Liga:
Ronaldo has 31 goals in 29 games.
Messi has 28 goals in 29 games.

All competitions:
Ronaldo has 50 goals in 45 games.
Messi has 41 goals in 44 games.

Certain I seen it on SSN. Maybe its minutes to goals so, Morata is the leader in it.

the whole year inn

shrewdness wrote: »

He clearly doesn't.

In La Liga:
Ronaldo has 31 goals in 29 games.
Messi has 28 goals in 29 games.

All competitions:
Ronaldo has 50 goals in 45 games.
Messi has 41 goals in 44 games.

Where are you getting these stats from? I m for goals scored in all computation s for Messi v balotelli

Talib Fiasco

Messi has more goals in this calender year...granted playing like two games more...they're pretty even atm which is saying something cuz Messi is definitely not at his best while Ronaldo is.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

Contradicting yourself now, one minute you're saying



and then soon after



You're on the wrong side of the argument and you know it, might as well pretend you weren't being serious all along :pac:.

?

My position is simple and consistent:

- there was a period where Messi was better;
- now we are in a period where Ronaldo is better;
- in the end, when they are both retired, one of the two will have had the cumulatively superior career and be adjudged the better player;

That's it. Shouldn't be difficult to follow.

Ronaldo is currently the better performing player, Messi has enjoyed a better overall career to this point. Both points may change, or not, we'll see.

Rayne Wooney

I would have picked Messi back then when this was made but I'd have Ronaldo ahead now

Messi playing in arguably one of the best teams of all time during that period with Pep, now I know people will be aghast at that and point out how much Real have spent but let's face it, while great players Alonso and Modric are not going to go down as some of the greatest of all time like Iniesta and Xavi will, and yet some still can't pick between Messi and Ronaldo

LuckyLloyd

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I would have picked Messi back then when this was made but I'd have Ronaldo ahead now

Messi playing in arguably one of the best teams of all time during that period with Pep, now I know people will be aghast at that and point out how much Real have spent but let's face it, while great players Alonso and Modric are not going to go down as some of the greatest of all time like Iniesta and Xavi will, and yet some still can't pick between Messi and Ronaldo

The fact that Ronaldo also had a season at this level for a different club, in a different league where he led then to all the cheddar definitely counts for something.

ahnowbrowncow

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

How has he been better in the last two seasons? Messi scored 12 goals more in the league than Ronaldo in two games less and was voted world player of the year.

No Ronaldo was voted player of the year based on last years season.
Again this year he has been all round better than Messi. Goals and performances can be perceived in many ways, Ronaldo has gotten the goals and results where it mattered again this season.
Barca were knocked out in the Quarters this year he was poor in both legs, he was poor in the Copa Del Ray final to name a few.
For there most important player this was not good enough so that's why I'm choosing Ronaldo.

Not to mention that Ronaldo single handily took Portugal to the World cup and his performances to date in the Champions League, Copa del ray and La Liga which relates directly to them being in a fight with Athletico.

danthefan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I would have picked Messi back then when this was made but I'd have Ronaldo ahead now

Messi playing in arguably one of the best teams of all time during that period with Pep, now I know people will be aghast at that and point out how much Real have spent but let's face it, while great players Alonso and Modric are not going to go down as some of the greatest of all time like Iniesta and Xavi will, and yet some still can't pick between Messi and Ronaldo

You stole my post! Exactly the bolded.

MaroonAndGreen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

My position is simple and consistent:

- there was a period where Messi was better;
- now we are in a period where Ronaldo is better;
- in the end, when they are both retired, one of the two will have had the cumulatively superior career and be adjudged the better player;

That's it. Shouldn't be difficult to follow.

Ronaldo is currently the better performing player, Messi has enjoyed a better overall career to this point. Both points may change, or not, we'll see.

In Messi's period of being better, he was undoubtledly the better of the two, and his form was being compared to the best ever. He won many trophies.

In Ronaldo's period of being better, there is still split arguments over who is better. Ronaldo hasnt blazed clear like Messi did and he isnt winning trophies, he can change that this season though by winning a trophy or two.

Messi still for me.

Talib Fiasco

I'm growing to like Ronaldo more and more as he ages but I can't for some reason see how anyone could think he's better than Messi...I just can't. It's so bloody obvious to me, and I'm not even a big fan of Barca. Ronaldo's not too far off Messi's level but he'll never be that close and will never surpass him in my books.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

My position is simple and consistent:

- there was a period where Messi was better;
- now we are in a period where Ronaldo is better;
- in the end, when they are both retired, one of the two will have had the cumulatively superior career and be adjudged the better player;

That's it. Shouldn't be difficult to follow.

Ronaldo is currently the better performing player, Messi has enjoyed a better overall career to this point. Both points may change, or not, we'll see.

Nah you're making it up as you go along and hedging your bets now.

Messi is the better player and will prove to be better overall when all is said and done. End of.

Lennonist

Lennonist wrote: »

Nah you're making it up as you go along and hedging your bets now. Messi is the better player and will prove to better overall when all is said and done. End of.

Awful big presumption there? End of???

Better close this thread now it's been confirmed Messi will be the best of the two for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:

Lennonist

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Awful big presumption there? End of???

Better close this thread now it's been confirmed Messi will be the best of the two for the rest of his career. :rolleyes:

I'm making a call on it. It seems to be hard to get other people to make a call on it. The thread says Messi or Ronaldo? If I was putting a team together and had 100's of millions to spend, and I had the choice of both but had to pick one of them to buy it would be Messi. No doubt about it.

Lennonist

Lennonist wrote: »

I'm making a call on it. It seems to be hard to get other people to make a call on it. The thread says Messi or Ronaldo? If I was putting a team together and had 100's of millions to spend, and I had the choice of both but had to pick one it would be Messi. No doubt about it.

That's where we differ then. I would pick Ronaldo.
People who used to think Messi was better are having second thoughts based on form over the last 16 - 18 months so easy to see why the can't make a call on it now.

shrewdness

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

My position is simple and consistent:

- there was a period where Messi was better;
- now we are in a period where Ronaldo is better;
- in the end, when they are both retired, one of the two will have had the cumulatively superior career and be adjudged the better player;

That's it. Shouldn't be difficult to follow.

Ronaldo is currently the better performing player, Messi has enjoyed a better overall career to this point. Both points may change, or not, we'll see.

This is pretty much it for me. Messi was clearly better a couple of seasons ago, but Ronaldo is now imo. For me the best player in the world is the one who is doing the business at the time, and at present that is Ronaldo. I can't stand these arguments that Messi is undoubtedly the best regardless of form and Ronaldo can never surpass him, absolute b0llox. Noone here can see the future and see how the rest of their careers will pan out and who will ultimately be at the top for longer.

Liam O

The fact the biggest anti-hero in world football (at least until Suarez came along ) is even splitting opinions with Messi is testament to how good he's been. Even when Ronaldo led his team to the league he didn't get the votes over Messi. Ronaldo was keeping up with Messi during his best of all time form and yet people were saying it wasn't close. It was. Very close, the difference is that Messi was in a better team so stood out more because he won more. As I said Messi was better at that stage but it wasn't the foregone conclusion that people would have had you believe. Messi could never have scored that goal against United last season and there's plenty of similar cases and vice versa. I do think Ronaldo is more adapable though.

Tox56

Liam O wrote: »

the difference is that Messi was in a better team so stood out more because he won more. As I said Messi was better at that stage

?!?

You've debunked your own argument. The difference wasn't that he was in a better team, it was that he was just... better

Tox56

shrewdness wrote: »

For me the best player in the world is the one who is doing the business at the time, and at present that is Ronaldo. I can't stand these arguments that Messi is undoubtedly the best regardless of form and Ronaldo can never surpass him, absolute b0llox. Noone here can see the future and see how the rest of their careers will pan out and who will ultimately be at the top for longer.

Obviously it's possible, but I think it's unlikely overall. Messi has 3 years on Ronaldo and a sustained period as the 'greatest' already in the bank, age wise he's about to theoretically hit his peak and by the end I think it will be a conversation of Messi vs the best of all time rather than Messi vs Ronaldo

shrewdness

Tox56 wrote: »

Obviously it's possible, but I think it's unlikely overall. Messi has 3 years on Ronaldo and a sustained period as the 'greatest' already in the bank, age wise he's about to theoretically hit his peak and by the end I think it will be a conversation of Messi vs the best of all time rather than Messi vs Ronaldo

Well that's fair enough, that's your opinion that it's unlikely, it's the ones who state it as fact that annoy me.

Personally I don't think the age gap will matter too much. As others have mentioned, Ronaldo is a freak of nature, perhaps the finest physical specimen we've seen in football, so I don't think you'll see him decline as early as most players. And I reckon when they're both done they'll both be in that conversation.

Too Tough To Die

It's funny that Messi was by far the better player the last time they shared the same pitch, contrary to both players form.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

Nah you're making it up as you go along and hedging your bets now.

Messi is the better player and will prove to be better overall when all is said and done. End of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwuckTkE7T4