Messi Or Ronaldo?

chrissb8

Lennonist wrote: »

Nah you're making it up as you go along and hedging your bets now.

Messi is the better player and will prove to be better overall when all is said and done. End of.

Yeah we'll see how Messi gets on in a different set up that is coming soon with the moving on of some barca players if not this season then in the next 2. We know Ronaldo can perform at a high level no matter what team. For me a brilliant player is able to work in many teams and styles. So we'll see how Messi gets on in the future. Tiki taka is going on its way out of barca.

Liam O

chrissb8 wrote: »

Yeah we'll see how Messi gets on in a different set up that is coming soon with the moving on of some barca players if not this season then in the next 2. We know Ronaldo can perform at a high level no matter what team. For me a brilliant player is able to work in many teams and styles. So we'll see how Messi gets on in the future. Tiki taka is going on its way out of barca.

I'm sure he'll be fine somehow...

nagirrac

Messi is phenomenal when he has a team around him that control possession, press hard and are great tiki taki passers. When he is given the ball with a minimum of space he is virtually unstoppable, either solo or playing quick one twos. He is an incredible finisher, with deceptive power. His vision and playmaking are as good as Maradona, who was the best by far up to now. I would compare Ronaldo more to Pele, absolutely explosive, physically able to compete with the toughest defenders, incredible in the air and an absolute cannon of a shot. Some of the goals he scores are simply inhuman, like the recent back heel against Valencia, I am not sure Messi could pull it off. They are both a joy to watch, but Ronaldo gets it for me because his incredible record at two clubs versus an incredible record at one club for Messi. Will be interesting to see how both perform at the WC, lots of pressure on Messi, none on Ronaldo.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Blatter

darced wrote: »

Ronaldo only had one great individual season at United

He has two PFA player of the season awards, 2007 and 2008.

Voted second in the Balon d'Or in 2007 and 2009 and won it in 2008.

He had at least two and a half 'great' individual seasons for United.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwuckTkE7T4

The Wire, meh, hardly ever watched it.

Anyway I have a question for ya.

Imagine if you were Manuel Pelligrini and the owners came to you with £170 million and said you must spend it on Messi or Ronaldo, but you must choose one, who would you spend the £170 million on?

Before you answer with a sidestep like "this year it would be Ronaldo, two years ago it would be Messi", consider which of them you'd build a team around and make a judgement call which one will be the better player over the next 5 years or so and ultimately overall in their careers. Which one would you spend the £170 million on?

For me it would be Messi.

Blatter

Lennonist wrote: »

The Wire, meh, hardly ever watched it.

Anyway I have a question for ya.

Imagine if you were Manuel Pelligrini and the owners came to you with £170 million and said you must spend it on Messi or Ronaldo, but you must choose one, who would you spend the £170 million on?

Before you answer with a sidestep like "this year it would be Ronaldo, two years ago it would be Messi", consider which of them you'd build a team around and make a judgement call which one will be the better player over the next 5 years or so and ultimately overall in their careers. Which one would you spend the £170 million on?

For me it would be Messi.

I would probably have to pick Ronaldo, based on the fact he's more versatile and doesn't really need a specific system to be build around him to get the best out of him as much as Messi does.

Ronaldo has been a beast at United on the right wing in both a 4-4-2 and 4-3-3. He has done it at Madrid on the left in a 4-2-3-1. Now he is doing it as a striker in a 4-4-2 under Ancelotti.

Not to say Messi can't play different roles, he can. I just think Ronaldo is a far safer bet to slot into a side without having a too much of a negative affect on players around him.

Always felt Messi has to play in the false 9 role to get the best out of him and the players around him. That's a definite draw back for me when comparing him against Ronaldo.

Seans_Username

Lennonist wrote: »

Imagine if you were Manuel Pelligrini and the owners came to you with £170 million and said you must spend it on Messi or Ronaldo, but you must choose one, who would you spend the £170 million on?

Most people I know would have Ronaldo on their team over Messi.

As was said, he's more versatile.

If I was Pellegrini and I wanted someone to get on the end of crosses from Navas, Nasri, Silva, Kolarov, Zabaleta, etc. I'd rather Ronaldo over Messi.

If I wanted a winger/forward to have a physical presence in attack, I'd have Ronaldo over Messi

If I wanted someone who has proven experience in destroying the Premier League, I'd take Ronaldo over Messi.

If I wanted someone to teach youth players a good attitude, I'd have Ronaldo and his insane training workload over Messi.

Too Tough To Die

Seans_Username wrote: »

Most people I know would have Ronaldo on their team over Messi.

As was said, he's more versatile.

If I was Pellegrini and I wanted someone to get on the end of crosses from Navas, Nasri, Silva, Kolarov, Zabaleta, etc. I'd rather Ronaldo over Messi.

If I wanted a winger/forward to have a physical presence in attack, I'd have Ronaldo over Messi

If I wanted someone who has proven experience in destroying the Premier League, I'd take Ronaldo over Messi.

If I wanted someone to teach youth players a good attitude, I'd have Ronaldo and his insane training workload over Messi.

All that money and your primary concern is whipping balls in and a physical presence? Jesus, typical Irish fan.

Too Tough To Die

And Ronaldo is not more versatile than Messi.

Seans_Username

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

All that money and your primary concern is whipping balls in and a physical presence? Jesus, typical Irish fan.

"Typical Irish fan" ???? I'm not even going to bother trying to explaining myself


This is why I don't post often on boards.

Iang87

Seans_Username wrote: »

"Typical Irish fan" ???? I'm not even going to bother trying to explaining myself


This is why I don't post often on boards.

But its a fair point. You'd have ronaldo because you feel he's big and strong and get on the end of a cross or run by players. By that token you must have felt guardiolas barca team were plain wrong to play and demolish everyone the way they did

The more versatile aspect I will never agree with. I'd rather messi running at a with the ball at his feet than ronaldo and I think messi creates more for team mates and has a far better passing range than ronaldo. Only thing in my view where ronaldo is far better is heading but messi/barca never really need to header it

Richard Hillman

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

And Ronaldo is not more versatile than Messi.

I would say he is. Messi has thrown a strop over recent years if he gets moved out of his number 9 position and doesnt want another CF up front with him. You can only play one way with him and crossing the ball becomes a lesser threat.

You can manoever the team around when Ronaldo is playing. Plus you can play football on the ground and in the air with Ronaldo.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

The Wire, meh, hardly ever watched it.

Anyway I have a question for ya.

Imagine if you were Manuel Pelligrini and the owners came to you with £170 million and said you must spend it on Messi or Ronaldo, but you must choose one, who would you spend the £170 million on?

Before you answer with a sidestep like "this year it would be Ronaldo, two years ago it would be Messi", consider which of them you'd build a team around and make a judgement call which one will be the better player over the next 5 years or so and ultimately overall in their careers. Which one would you spend the £170 million on?

For me it would be Messi.

Definitely Ronaldo. I think you get more over the next four years from him.

brevity

Whatever about Messi and Ronaldo, you need to watch The Wire. Yo.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Definitely Ronaldo. I think you get more over the next four years from him.

I don't know which has shocked me more, your answer or the fact that you gave a straight answer:pac:

It would definitely be Messi for me. If you were to spend that sort of money it would have to be on the very best player on the planet and build the team around him.

Marty McFly

Lennonist wrote: »

I don't know which has shocked me more, your answer or the fact that you gave a straight answer:pac:

It would definitely be Messi for me. If you were to spend that sort of money it would have to be on the very best player on the planet and build the team around him.

But for many Messi isn't the best player on the planet right now Ronaldo is.

Messi has even come in for some criticism from some Barca fans for his performances.

Lennonist

Marty McFly wrote: »

But for many Messi isn't the best player on the planet right now Ronaldo is.

Messi has even come in for some criticism from some Barca fans for his performances.

Ronaldo got the ballon d'or most recently, but Messi is better overall between the two of them. I'm confident he'll prove that again over the next few years.

Marty McFly

Lennonist wrote: »

Ronaldo got the ballon d'or most recently, but Messi is better overall between the two of them. I'm confident he'll prove that again over the next few years.

But you said best player in the world and right now that is Ronaldo

Messi for me really needs to step it up this summer in the World Cup and perform on the international stage.

Seans_Username

Iang87 wrote: »

But its a fair point. You'd have ronaldo because you feel he's big and strong and get on the end of a cross or run by players. By that token you must have felt guardiolas barca team were plain wrong to play and demolish everyone the way they did

The more versatile aspect I will never agree with. I'd rather messi running at a with the ball at his feet than ronaldo and I think messi creates more for team mates and has a far better passing range than ronaldo. Only thing in my view where ronaldo is far better is heading but messi/barca never really need to header it

Grand then. My point was that while the two aren't carbon copies of each other, they have a lot of similarities: pace, free-kicks, goal scoring, ball control, and much more.

But what Ronaldo has that Messi doesn't have is more valuable, in my opinion.

I wasn't basing my answer around physicality, I was saying that Ronaldo is more well-rounded and I'd rather that to Messi.

MaroonAndGreen

Marty McFly wrote: »

But you said best player in the world and right now that is Ronaldo

Messi for me really needs to step it up this summer in the World Cup and perform on the international stage.

This argument annoys me, its said by people who havent watched or followed Argentina. I acknowledge that for some people success is only winning the World Cup, but hes had a better international career than 90% of players playing at the moment anyway:

- He had a decent World Cup in 2006 as an 18 year old.
- Won Best Young Player at the 2007 Copa America which Argentina reached the final of.
- Won 2008 Olympics with Argentina and either scored or assisted in 4 of their 7 goals in the tournament.
- In the 2010 World Cup he got 4 assists in their 4-1 win over Korea, Man of the Match against Greece and was one of 10 nominated for the Golden Ball award.
- Got the most assists at 2011 Copa America even though Argentina only reached quarter finals.
- He was 2nd top scorer in 2014 World Cup qualifiying with 10 goals.
- He has scored 37 goals in 83 games for Argentina. With 18 goals in his last 16 games for them.

Skylinehead

Marty McFly wrote: »

But you said best player in the world and right now that is Ronaldo

Messi for me really needs to step it up this summer in the World Cup and perform on the international stage.

Have you seen Messi for Argentina over the last 2 years? Guys been superb for them, arguably better than Ronaldo for Portugal.

Marty McFly

Maybe I worded it wrong, what I meant was right now Ronaldo is the better player, Messi hasn't been hitting the same levels and that he could do with a good world cup.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Have you seen Messi for Argentina over the last 2 years? Guys been superb for them, arguably better than Ronaldo for Portugal.

Ronaldo over the last two years......

Almost single handily took Portugal to the World Cup finals.

For Portugal, where his team-mates are not on the same level as his Madrid teammates, he becomes even more imperative but his roles change and he adapts. He takes on far more defensive and creative responsibility for a team that lacks in this area.

The difference between him and Messi is very clear.

bullvine

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

This argument annoys me, its said by people who havent watched or followed Argentina. I acknowledge that for some people success is only winning the World Cup, but hes had a better international career than 90% of players playing at the moment anyway:

- He had a decent World Cup in 2006 as an 18 year old.
- Won Best Young Player at the 2007 Copa America which Argentina reached the final of.
- Won 2008 Olympics with Argentina and either scored or assisted in 4 of their 7 goals in the tournament.
- In the 2010 World Cup he got 4 assists in their 4-1 win over Korea, Man of the Match against Greece and was one of 10 nominated for the Golden Ball award.
- Got the most assists at 2011 Copa America even though Argentina only reached quarter finals.
- He was 2nd top scorer in 2014 World Cup qualifiying with 10 goals.
- He has scored 37 goals in 83 games for Argentina. With 18 goals in his last 16 games for them.

Who remembers assists? Copa Americas? World Cup qualifying goals, Olympics??

History remembers players who dominate world cups.
Paolo Rossi, Maradona, Kempes, Matthaus, Romario, Zidane, Ronaldo, etc on the international stage nothing else matters. Messi had a poor world cup 2010, similar to what Ronaldinho had in 2006, this is his time to shine..

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ronaldo over the last two years......

Almost single handily took Portugal to the World Cup finals.

For Portugal, where his team-mates are not on the same level as his Madrid teammates, he becomes even more imperative but his roles change and he adapts. He takes on far more defensive and creative responsibility for a team that lacks in this area.

The difference between him and Messi is very clear.

I did say arguably. And Portugal weren't exactly great through qualifying in a weak group. Not sure where this "clear" difference is, elaborate.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

I did say arguably. And Portugal weren't exactly great through qualifying in a weak group. Not sure where this "clear" difference is, elaborate.

Clear difference his flexability when it comes to playing alongside weaker teammates.

No they were not great I agree and without Ronaldo they would have never qualified. He carried them.

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Clear difference his flexability when it comes to playing alongside weaker teammates.

How do you know Messi is inflexible

Plus Argentina don't exactly have the strongest squad either, their defence and midfield are decidedly meh.

No they were not great I agree and without Ronaldo they would have never qualified. He carried them.

He carried them through the playoffs, yes. He wasn't particularly great during the first qualifying round.

MaroonAndGreen

bullvine wrote: »

Who remembers assists? Copa Americas? World Cup qualifying goals, Olympics??

History remembers players who dominate world cups.
Paolo Rossi, Maradona, Kempes, Matthaus, Romario, Zidane, Ronaldo, etc on the international stage nothing else matters. Messi had a poor world cup 2010, similar to what Ronaldinho had in 2006, this is his time to shine..

I dont know what World Cup you were watching, Messi did not have a poor World Cup in 2010

seligehgit

Last 18 months Ronaldo has reigned supreme with all of Messi's injuries but pre those injuries Messi had no equal.So in spite of my bias towards my old club man it's got to be Messi.

Skylinehead

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I dont know what World Cup you were watching, Messi did not have a poor World Cup in 2010

Easily their best player, people just jump to that conclusion because he didn't score. Despite him playing a much more withdrawn playmaking role, which he did with ease.

Montroseee

Ronaldo will win the Ballon D'Or next year and for me is the greatest ever. Messi can never be considered the best when there is the question over his HGH use, doping is cheating.

Talib Fiasco

Oh for the love of Jay

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

How do you know Messi is inflexible

Plus Argentina don't exactly have the strongest squad either, their defence and midfield are decidedly meh.



He carried them through the playoffs, yes. He wasn't particularly great during the first qualifying round.

Argentina's squad and Portugals squad. Gulf in class between the two.

He wasn't great as in goalscoring, yes I agree until the playoffs. But I explained his contribution below.

'For Portugal, where his team-mates are not on the same level as his Madrid teammates, he becomes even more imperative but his roles change and he adapts. He takes on far more defensive and creative responsibility for a team that lacks in this area.'

Too Tough To Die

Montroseee wrote: »

Ronaldo will win the Ballon D'Or next year and for me is the greatest ever. Messi can never be considered the best when there is the question over his HGH use, doping is cheating.

Can you expand on this please.

brevity

It wouldn't be a discussion about Messi if it didn't have accusations of him being hepped up on goofballs.

brevity

brevity wrote: »

It wouldn't be a discussion about Messi if it didn't have accusations of him being hepped up on goofballs.

I would love to know where this is coming from. Tabloids

brevity

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I would love to know where this is coming from. Tabloids

Messi had human growth hormones when he was younger. This was to help him grow at a normal rate in comparison with kids his age. Some people think that he's the second coming of Lance Armstrong because of this.

Turtyturd

brevity wrote: »

It wouldn't be a discussion about Messi if it didn't have accusations of him being hepped up on goofballs.

Or having better team mates.

Although him being criticised for coming through at the same time as a bunch of Argentinian players capable of playing in the positions they are picked to play in is a new one.

Normally it's Xavi/Iniesta Vs 'Ronnie's' pub player team mates.

brevity

brevity wrote: »

Messi had human growth hormones when he was younger. This was to help him grow at a normal rate in comparison with kids his age. Some people think that he's the second coming of Lance Armstrong because of this.

Perfectly understandable if he had those type of issues as a kid. Nonsense if people are relating this to football talent.

MaroonAndGreen

So Messi won the Ballon D'Or in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. Ronaldo won in 2013. All awards probably went the right way in them years. But who is having the better of 2014 so far?

Messi in 2014
Influence in big games
- 2 goals in 1-4 win away to Sevilla
- Hat trick at Bernabeu in the 3-4 win
- Winner away to Espanyol 0-1 win
- Winner in 2-3 win away to Villareal
- Goal v Man City away 0-2 win
- Goal V Man City in 2-1 home win

You can say he failed to influence the big games home and away to Athletico in the league, home and away to them in the Champions League, and the Copa Del Rey Final.

Scored 27 goals in 2014 so far for Barcelona in 25 games so thats a ratio of a goal every 1.08 games.

Barcelona will end the season trophyless, so thats a bad mark. But all in all hes having a stunning 2014 so far.

Ronaldo in 2014
Influence in big games
- Late equaliser away to Athletico in a 2-2 draw
- Winner away to Malaga in 0-1 win
- Late equaliser home to Valencia in 2-2 draw
- Both goals in Copa win away to Athletico
- Destroyed Schalke home and away in Champions League
- Scored twice away to Bayern Munich

You would expect better from him in the big games where he got a red card away to Bilbao, was outshone by Messi in the 3-4 Clasico and when Madrid were beaten 2-0 in Dortmund.

He has scored 23 goals in 26 games in 2014, a ratio of a goal every 0.88 games.

Madrid have won the Copa Del Rey and are in the Champions League final so on the trophies front hes having the better of it.

---

Overall though its hard to argue who is having the better 2014, Messi is nearly shading it IMO. The World Cup will be the deciding factor this year id say.

Rayne Wooney

Messi was fairly shocking in some of those big games, definitely more so than Ronaldo even at his worst

I think Ronaldo would win it again this year if it wasn't for the World Cup, but the competition just blows it open

Club form is sometimes forgotten and Portugal aren't going to get as far as Argentina you'd think.

If Brazil do well you would think Neymar would have something to do with it and it being in his home country he might be a good alternative to the two lads

SteelyDanJalapeno

Messi didnt even make La Liga team of the year this season, says it all imo,

Talib Fiasco

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Messi didnt even make La Liga team of the year this season, says it all imo,

Yeah just shows how ignorant and stupid some people are. The man has still been in the top 3 players in the world this season

kryogen

Others deserve a chance to be recognised too though, particularly when they are part of title winning teams.

Skylinehead

kryogen wrote: »

Others deserve a chance to be recognised too though, particularly when they are part of title winning teams.

Not if they aren't actually better.

Fudge You

kryogen wrote: »

Others deserve a chance to be recognised too though, particularly when they are part of title winning teams.

No. The trophy goes to the best player.
Otherwise a Munich player deserved it for 2013 as they were miles ahead of ronaldo and messi.
Actually what did Ronaldo win in 2013???

OneEightSeven

Even though Messi has been demoted to second-best player in the world, he is still streets ahead of 3rd place. If Suarez could score against the big teams, I'd rank him up there with Ronaldo and Messi.

Muff_Daddy

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

So Messi won the Ballon D'Or in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. Ronaldo won in 2013. All awards probably went the right way in them years. But who is having the better of 2014 so far?

Messi in 2014
Influence in big games
- 2 goals in 1-4 win away to Sevilla
- Hat trick at Bernabeu in the 3-4 win
- Winner away to Espanyol 0-1 win
- Winner in 2-3 win away to Villareal
- Goal v Man City away 0-2 win
- Goal V Man City in 2-1 home win

You can say he failed to influence the big games home and away to Athletico in the league, home and away to them in the Champions League, and the Copa Del Rey Final.

Scored 27 goals in 2014 so far for Barcelona in 25 games so thats a ratio of a goal every 1.08 games.

Barcelona will end the season trophyless, so thats a bad mark. But all in all hes having a stunning 2014 so far.

Ronaldo in 2014
Influence in big games
- Late equaliser away to Athletico in a 2-2 draw
- Winner away to Malaga in 0-1 win
- Late equaliser home to Valencia in 2-2 draw
- Both goals in Copa win away to Athletico
- Destroyed Schalke home and away in Champions League
- Scored twice away to Bayern Munich

You would expect better from him in the big games where he got a red card away to Bilbao, was outshone by Messi in the 3-4 Clasico and when Madrid were beaten 2-0 in Dortmund.

He has scored 23 goals in 26 games in 2014, a ratio of a goal every 0.88 games.

Madrid have won the Copa Del Rey and are in the Champions League final so on the trophies front hes having the better of it.

---

Overall though its hard to argue who is having the better 2014, Messi is nearly shading it IMO. The World Cup will be the deciding factor this year id say.

Bit harsh, considering he was an unused sub.