Messi Or Ronaldo?

jive

Harsh to compare Messi/Ronaldo performances when Argentina are light years ahead of Portugal. That Portugal team is the worst in living memory

Rayne Wooney

jive wrote: »

Harsh to compare Messi/Ronaldo performances when Argentina are light years ahead of Portugal. That Portugal team is the worst in living memory

But that doesn't suit the argument for Messi lovers, either does the one where Messi was playing in a team that's arguably one of the best of all time with players who will go down as all time greats whereas Benzema, Di Maria and the like are not even close

Too Tough To Die

jive wrote: »

Harsh to compare Messi/Ronaldo performances when Argentina are light years ahead of Portugal. That Portugal team is the worst in living memory

Have you watched Argentina play in this world cup? They're rubbish.

shrewdness

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Have you watched Argentina play in this world cup? They're rubbish.

Yeah they're not great overall but still better than Portugal, an easier group for them too. Still though, Messi has better quality players to help in attack than Ronaldo does with Portugal, it was amusing to watch him try to link up with Eder against USA given how useless Eder is. Between Ronaldo's injury not clearing up and Portugal's other problems with injury and suspension, this World Cup has been a disaster for them. Clearly Messi is having a fantastic World Cup but I don't think it's fair to just blame Ronaldo for Portugal's poor showing.

GLaDOS

I didn't see the Argentina v Nigeria match, so I wont' comment on that but I haven't been overly impressed with Messi against Bosnia and Iran, scored 2 great goals in the games, and of vital importance, but his overall play was not great. Certainly against Bosnia he constantly lost the ball with stray passes and dribbles going nowhere. His attitude to winning the ball back didn't look the best either.

Contrast to Neymar, who I feel has been fantastic. A real creative force for Brazil in a team sorely lacking in this department, really leading from the front.

Idbatterim

one fair comparison is at free kicks, maybe Ronaldo should take a few lessons from Messi, the amount of free kicks he squanders is unreal, maybe floating one into the box might be a better idea for a team who arent exactly world beaters!

In relation to the Portuguese demise, I remember when we played them years ago and even more recently, they had some class players, they now have an average team with one truly world class player, they were far more of a force in years gone by...

yohan the great

john moloney wrote: »

Ronaldo is more complete, He has a physical prescence which means he can impose himself on any opponent regardless of space and time which messi cannot also he is an aerial threat which messi is not either. Ronaldo can shoot with both feet while messi can only use his left. Messi would be successful no doubt but not as successful as Ronaldo would be if he moved leagues. For example would Messi be able to play in the premier league? I'm not sure he would be able to break 30 goals and i could imagine him picking up injuries regularly too.

I'm fairly sure he would given that he regularly takes the piss out of the best defenders in the premier league in the champions league

yohan the great

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

But that doesn't suit the argument for Messi lovers, either does the one where Messi was playing in a team that's arguably one of the best of all time with players who will go down as all time greats whereas Benzema, Di Maria and the like are not even close

That very di Maria you are complaining of is Argentina's second best player by a distance in this world cup so you can't have it both ways

Rayne Wooney

yohan the great wrote: »

That very di Maria you are complaining of is Argentina's second best player by a distance in this world cup so you can't have it both ways

Di Maria is still far better than almost all of the Portuguese players

yohan the great

I suppose its Ronaldo's teammates fault that he missed so many easy chances today

super_furry

I think Ronaldo missed a big chance to enhance his legacy today, but sadly he's going to retire without having ever done it on football's biggest stage.

Fudge You

jive wrote: »

Harsh to compare Messi/Ronaldo performances when Argentina are light years ahead of Portugal. That Portugal team is the worst in living memory

I wouldnt say light years ahead... Argentina are no great shakes, their defence is poor, aguero has been injured, even though he played , messi and dimaria are on form though. Sure everyone on boards said they were terrible in their first two games, and messi had to get them out of trouble...

On your second point, Portugal in 2002 world cup, awful. They didnt get out of a group, that had south Korea, USA and Poland in it.

Fudge You

john moloney wrote: »

also he is an aerial threat which messi is not either.

I remember the 2009 champions league final. On sky sports, Jamie Redknapp said Ronaldo is better than messi, cause Ronaldo is better in the air.
And messi goes and scores a header. Vidic and Rio played in that game n all. Fair play to the little man.

MaroonAndGreen

Ronaldo was at his prime for this World Cup , he wont be the same in 4 years time , big blot on his copybook

feargale

Messi, by an Irish mile, for both skill and sportsmanship.

Sandraevra

It was a myth! Cristiano Ronaldo’s new haircut WASN’T to match a young fan’s scar who had undergone brain surgery.

Sadly, it’s now come to light that that story was only a myth.

Cris Cruz, mother of 10-month old Erik Ortiz Cruz, has updated his Facebook page to inform people that the story about the zig-zag sadly isn’t true.

The mother wrote the following note:

I’ve already seen that social networking is spreading the rumour that Cristiano Ronaldo has had a haircut in honour of the scar after Erik’s surgery, but I want to make clear that that is not the case.

My son has not been operated on, and Cristiano Ronaldo at the time said he would pay part of the cost of operating on my son when the time came, but thankfully that day (the day of the surgery) has not arrived.

I want to say that I follow and will eternally be grateful to Cristiano Ronaldo, the person that he is, who talks with me and asks about the status of my son and to all the anonymous people who have unselfishly helped my little one!

Thank you all again!

Made up by Ronaldo fans no guess.

Turtwig

feargale wrote: »

Messi, by an Irish mile, for both skill and sportsmanship.

Messi's better in my eyes too but I don't know specifically about sportsmanship.

He's not as much of a team player now as he used to be.
If reports of inside accounts from Barca are true he's petulant and egotistical.
He's spat at people
He's attempted to score goals with his hand.
(Though maybe that was for comparisons with Maradona)

Granted, the last two were years ago so his behavior may have changed since but did Ronaldo ever spit at another player or attempt to score with his hand??

MaroonAndGreen

Turtwig wrote: »

Messi's better in my eyes too but I don't know specifically about sportsmanship.

He's not as much of a team player now as he used to be.
If reports of inside accounts from Barca are true he's petulant and egotistical.
He's spat at people
He's attempted to score goals with his hand.
(Though maybe that was for comparisons with Maradona)

Granted, the last two were years ago so his behavior may have changed since but did Ronaldo ever spit at another player or attempt to score with his hand??

Ronaldo frequently dives and cheats and goes mad at refs when decisions dont go his way

Liam O

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Ronaldo frequently dives and cheats and goes mad at refs when decisions dont go his way

Recent examples of dives? 'Cheats'? That's not ambiguous. He's competitive. He's far from the worst at Real or Barca for anything you've mentioned. People just throw out buzzwords to discredit him.

SeantheMan

Sandraevra wrote: »

It was a myth! Cristiano Ronaldo’s new haircut WASN’T to match a young fan’s scar who had undergone brain surgery.

Sadly, it’s now come to light that that story was only a myth.

Cris Cruz, mother of 10-month old Erik Ortiz Cruz, has updated his Facebook page to inform people that the story about the zig-zag sadly isn’t true.

The mother wrote the following note:

I’ve already seen that social networking is spreading the rumour that Cristiano Ronaldo has had a haircut in honour of the scar after Erik’s surgery, but I want to make clear that that is not the case.

My son has not been operated on, and Cristiano Ronaldo at the time said he would pay part of the cost of operating on my son when the time came, but thankfully that day (the day of the surgery) has not arrived.

I want to say that I follow and will eternally be grateful to Cristiano Ronaldo, the person that he is, who talks with me and asks about the status of my son and to all the anonymous people who have unselfishly helped my little one!

Thank you all again!

Made up by Ronaldo fans no guess.

No one here cares about their haircuts or fashion.
If it was a myth or true, what difference does it make ?

It just trash for the gossip columns. Real football fans hate that kind of journalistic (if you can even call it that) nonsense

jive

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Have you watched Argentina play in this world cup? They're rubbish.

They're hardly rubbish. I'd rather be in a team surrounded by players like di maria, aguero, higuain, zabaleta, mascherano, lavezzi and being able to afford to leave players like tevez at home. Di maria is playing the best football of his life for the last 6 months IMO. Argentina have a very realistic chance of winning the world cup and not just cause messi is in the team. Their CBs are fairly dog though

Too Tough To Die

jive wrote: »

They're hardly rubbish. I'd rather be in a team surrounded by players like di maria, aguero, higuain, zabaleta, mascherano, lavezzi and being able to afford to leave players like tevez at home. Di maria is playing the best football of his life for the last 6 months IMO. Argentina have a very realistic chance of winning the world cup and not just cause messi is in the team. Their CBs are fairly dog though

Not denying the talent is there. I was talking about their performances in this world cup.

jive

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Not denying the talent is there. I was talking about their performances in this world cup.

Topped their group that's all that really matters. Performances in the group aren't worth much as long as you get the results you want which they did. Cant imagine that all the players were mentally 100% due to the quality of teams they were up against even though its the WC. I'm sure that argentina, like several other teams, will be able to up it a notch when they need to. We've seen it with the Germans and Netherlands already, disposing of 'better' nations but then taking the foot off the gas somewhat.

Too Tough To Die

jive wrote: »

Topped their group that's all that really matters. Performances in the group aren't worth much as long as you get the results you want which they did. Cant imagine that all the players were mentally 100% due to the quality of teams they were up against even though its the WC. I'm sure that argentina, like several other teams, will be able to up it a notch when they need to. We've seen it with the Germans and Netherlands already, disposing of 'better' nations but then taking the foot off the gas somewhat.

Yeah, sure. Of course. Never said otherwise.

MaroonAndGreen

Liam O wrote: »

Recent examples of dives? 'Cheats'? That's not ambiguous. He's competitive. He's far from the worst at Real or Barca for anything you've mentioned. People just throw out buzzwords to discredit him.

Far from the worst but still worse than Messi which is the point

Liam O

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Far from the worst but still worse than Messi which is the point

Typical, cop out. Make a statement with no basis and can't back it up.

jive

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yeah, sure. Of course. Never said otherwise.

You implied otherwise by calling them rubbish.

professore

jive wrote: »

Topped their group that's all that really matters. Performances in the group aren't worth much as long as you get the results you want which they did. Cant imagine that all the players were mentally 100% due to the quality of teams they were up against even though its the WC. I'm sure that argentina, like several other teams, will be able to up it a notch when they need to. We've seen it with the Germans and Netherlands already, disposing of 'better' nations but then taking the foot off the gas somewhat.

Without Messi they would have been going home.

Too Tough To Die

jive wrote: »

You implied otherwise by calling them rubbish.

Talking about their performances in this world cup. Keep up.

Green farmer

Messi all the way.

jive

professore wrote: »

Without Messi they would have been going home.

Doubt it

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Talking about their performances in this world cup. Keep up.

How supercilious of you, boy.

TheNap

I'm sorry . But Messi can only be compared to Maradona at this stage . And tbh I think Messi is even better than him

kieran--f

Ronaldo these days

Y2KBOS86

Anyone think Messi has lost some pace recently? Looked pretty slow against Belgium, struggled against both full backs for pace, just turned 27 as well.

Turtwig

He's not the same running at players as he used to. Then again the space isn't there as readily now. Don't think he's lost pace yet though think that was just the incredibly heat he was playing in. Remember Messi averages around 7km a match in the best of conditions. 7km is actually being a bit generous.

MaroonAndGreen

Odds for the Ballon D'Or are now:

Messi 6/4
Ronaldo 4/1
Neymar 4/1
Robben 16/1

And after these four there are a whole host of players on 33s and 40s.

If Argentina win the World Cup then Messi will definitely be the Ballon D'Or winner again for a 5th time.

If Messi ends his career with 3-4 more Ballon D'Or wins than Ronaldo then there is absolutly no way anyone could question that he was the better player, surely?

yohan the great

For anybody that thinks Ronaldo is better just read this article http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

Rayne Wooney

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Odds for the Ballon D'Or are now:

Messi 6/4
Ronaldo 4/1
Neymar 4/1
Robben 16/1

And after these four there are a whole host of players on 33s and 40s.

If Argentina win the World Cup then Messi will definitely be the Ballon D'Or winner again for a 5th time.

If Messi ends his career with 3-4 more Ballon D'Or wins than Ronaldo then there is absolutly no way anyone could question that he was the better player, surely?

So using that logic, you agree that Michael Carrick will go down as a better player than Lampard?

MaroonAndGreen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So using that logic, you agree that Michael Carrick will go down as a better player than Lampard?

No actually Frank Lampard has been named in FIFPro team of the year, been Footballer of the Year twice and came 2nd in Ballon D'Or.

Are you saying Carrick has better individual achievments than that?

Rayne Wooney

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

No actually Frank Lampard has been named in FIFPro team of the year, been Footballer of the Year twice and came 2nd in Ballon D'Or.

Are you saying Carrick has better individual achievments than that?

Why are you limiting the criteria to individual awards, surely if not both then it makes more sense to go with the awards achieved as part of a team as it is a team sport.

MaroonAndGreen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Why are you limiting the criteria to individual awards, surely if not both then it makes more sense to go with the awards achieved as part of a team as it is a team sport.

Well the Ballon D'Or is an individual award.

Nicky Butt won a few Premier League titles, doesnt make him better than Steven Gerrard who hasnt won any. But Gerrard's indivdual awards set him apart from Nicky Butt.

Liam O

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Well the Ballon D'Or is an individual award.

Nicky Butt won a few Premier League titles, doesnt make him better than Steven Gerrard who hasnt won any. But Gerrard's indivdual awards set him apart from Nicky Butt.

Do they set Gerrard apart from Roy Keane and Paul Scholes then, seeing as how he has more individual awards than both of them put together? Strange you'd go for Nicky Butt who was behind both of these players for his whole career in the top echelon of english football and not somebody first choice.

Rayne Wooney

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Well the Ballon D'Or is an individual award.

Nicky Butt won a few Premier League titles, doesnt make him better than Steven Gerrard who hasnt won any. But Gerrard's indivdual awards set him apart from Nicky Butt.

Yet Scholes and Keane who are both better players than Gerrard have less individual awards than Gerrard.

It's just not a good way of judging anything.

Messi should have to win the World Cup to reclaim the balon dor,he was noticeably poor when Barca needed him most last season. He is playing in a star studded Argentina team that should be winning the World Cup anyway with the players they have.

Ronaldo broke the goal scoring record playing a huge part in his team winning the champions league

eagle eye

Ooh I did that again, clicked into the wrong thread. Thought this was the Messi or Ronaldo thread but must have clicked into the United or Liverpool superthread!


Anyways Leo Messi is two matches away from being crowned the GOAT.

yohan the great

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yet Scholes and Keane who are both better players than Gerrard have less individual awards than Gerrard.

It's just not a good way of judging anything.

Messi should have to win the World Cup to reclaim the balon dor,he was noticeably poor when Barca needed him most last season. He is playing in a star studded Argentina team that should be winning the World Cup anyway with the players they have.

Ronaldo broke the goal scoring record playing a huge part in his team winning the champions league

A star studded team? The rest of the team have been ****e most of the time apart from him

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yet Scholes and Keane who are both better players than Gerrard have less individual awards than Gerrard.

It's just not a good way of judging anything.

Messi should have to win the World Cup to reclaim the balon dor,he was noticeably poor when Barca needed him most last season. He is playing in a star studded Argentina team that should be winning the World Cup anyway with the players they have.

Ronaldo broke the goal scoring record playing a huge part in his team winning the champions league

By that logic ronaldo was noticeably poor when his country needed him most. Also on paper there are far better squads than argentina at the world cup the difference is Messi.

bucketybuck

yohan the great wrote: »

A star studded team? The rest of the team have been ****e most of the time apart from him

Performances aside, there are a lot of teams that would be delighted to have Zabaleta, Garay, Mascherano, Di Maria, Higuain and Aguero available to them.

In a world cup with no stand out teams Argentina have as talented a squad as anybody, and far more talented than the likes of that rubbish Portugal side.

yohan the great

bucketybuck wrote: »

Performances aside, there are a lot of teams that would be delighted to have Zabaleta, Garay, Mascherano, Di Maria, Higuain and Aguero available to them.

In a world cup with no stand out teams Argentina have as talented a squad as anybody, and far more talented than the likes of that rubbish Portugal side.

That rubbish Portugal side that would have gone through if Ronaldo had taken a few of the loads of chances they created for him. Aguero is injured so irrelevant, I don't think Zabaleta has been good in the world cup at all, in fact Rojo at the other side has been better, I think di Maria is injured too and Higuain has been absolutely terrible apart from the last game. I'll give you Mascherano,I think he has been very good

Rayne Wooney

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

By that logic ronaldo was noticeably poor when his country needed him most. Also on paper there are far better squads than argentina at the world cup the difference is Messi.

Was he?

And there were probably two teams at the World Cup with clear better squads, only Germany left

GavRedKing

I hope Argentina win the WC, just for the internet to break, should make for great viewing.