Wiring intruder alarm to sash windows?

awnow

When wiring intruder alarm to sash windows, where is the optimum exact place to position the shock sensors/magnetic contacts? And is it recommended to provide 2 devices per window i.e. for top & bottom sash openings?

KoolKid

Using a curley loop is one option


Using this one combined inertia /contact is sufficiant on the center bar where the 2 openings meet.

altor

+1 to the sash loops, it is the best option when protecting sash windows.

fred funk }{

The sash curly loops are probably the best option but they look terrible. Depending on the particular window, you can wire a point to the bottom and top of the sash. And if around the windows aren't plastered you could drill through the frames to hide the cables.

MCnoFlow

In my opinion the sash loops look terrible and should be avoided on a pvc sash window a inertia/contact combined at the center of window magnet on lower opening and fishing through the channel in pvc up to a contact only for top opening. For a timber sash the same applies however method for running cable from top to center depends on type alot of older style have voids behind shutters. I understand this is slightly more time consuming but well worth it.

KoolKid

That method is good providing the windows are the type that don't pass by each other.

awnow

MCnoFlow wrote: »

In my opinion the sash loops look terrible and should be avoided on a pvc sash window a inertia/contact combined at the center of window magnet on lower opening and fishing through the channel in pvc up to a contact only for top opening. For a timber sash the same applies however method for running cable from top to center depends on type alot of older style have voids behind shutters. I understand this is slightly more time consuming but well worth it.

I agree that the curly loops would be poor aesthetically. I would also imagine that they could be hazard if kids discover them - if the loops are not concealed in some manner.

In your post, can I clarify if you mean the following:

1. Wire to a combined inertia/magnetic-contact positioned at the centre bar. Fit magnetic contact to lower opening.
2. Then wire (link) from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact at the centre bar to a magnetic-contact at some point on the top opening. I presume this point would have to be up at the top of the window if the windows ARE the type that DO pass-by each other i.e. both move up and down.

In practical wiring terms, for a particular Zone, does this mean wiring a 4-core alarm cable to the centre bar/point on the first window, then looping it to the centre point on the next window and so on? And additionally at each window, trying to fish a 4-core from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact on the centre-bar to the top of the window via the channel in the frame of the window if possible? (Because the lower sliding part of the window slides up on the inside of the upper part, the contact for the upper part would have to go at the top.)

KoolKid

You would wire the cable to a point on the frame level to the centre bar.
Use a curley loop from a junction box there to a single inertia/contact on the centre bar with the magnet on the back opening. If either move the contact opens. This also allows the windows to pass each other if nned be,

MCnoFlow

awnow wrote: »

I agree that the curly loops would be poor aesthetically. I would also imagine that they could be hazard if kids discover them - if the loops are not concealed in some manner.

In your post, can I clarify if you mean the following:

1. Wire to a combined inertia/magnetic-contact positioned at the centre bar. Fit magnetic contact to lower opening.
2. Then wire (link) from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact at the centre bar to a magnetic-contact at some point on the top opening. I presume this point would have to be up at the top of the window if the windows ARE the type that DO pass-by each other i.e. both move up and down.

In practical wiring terms, for a particular Zone, does this mean wiring a 4-core alarm cable to the centre bar/point on the first window, then looping it to the centre point on the next window and so on? And additionally at each window, trying to fish a 4-core from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact on the centre-bar to the top of the window via the channel in the frame of the window if possible? (Because the lower sliding part of the window slides up on the inside of the upper part, the contact for the upper part would have to go at the top.)

Ya, sounds like you got it. Regards first fix you could bring your loops to the top opening and fish down to center or vice-versa whichever is easiest. I'll try post some pics during the week if this would help let me know.

awnow

MCnoFlow wrote: »

I'll try post some pics during the week if this would help let me know.

That would be very helpful mcnoflow. Thanks a mill.

Jnealon

Sash loops look terrible and I usually try and avoid them. Flush or miniature contacts top and bottom with blass break or curtain pirs.

KoolKid

If you are wiring to the openings you would be better off fitting an inertia anyway.
By the time a PiR or break glass activates the damage is done. I would prefer earliest detection possible.

brinks_18476

hi guys, thanks for this thread and the home security forum which i have just found.

We prewired our house for alarm. At the time the alarm installer said he would put wireless interia sensors/contacts (Aritech) on our sash windows.

I think this was a mistake. I recently seen the proposed wireless inertia sensor which is pretty big and ugly (about 8" long) and will destroy (in my opinion) the look of our traditional sash timber windows.

I'm really sorry that I did not think of wiring for a discreet contact at top and bottom (one for each sash). Whilst we would not have had inertia capability it would be better than the alternative as we have decided not to fit those ugly big wireless inertia sensors so now we will have no window protection unless you guys have an alternative.

BTW those wireless Aritech inertia sensors are expensive and we have a lot of windows so that was bad advice too I think? (from a cost perspective).

He also proposed not to fit any window protection to 2nd floor and hence we have no pre wireing on windows on 2nd floor on a single PIR on landing - is that sufficient guys?

Thanks

KoolKid

How old is this system?
Its a pity he went for Aritech
The Visonic wireless inertia contact is much neater


Omitting non accessible upstairs windows is ok. But I'd like a PiR or 2 in the landing & hall.

brinks_18476

KoolKid wrote: »

How old is this system?
Its a pity he went for Aritech
The Visonic wireless inertia contact is much neater


Omitting non accessible upstairs windows is ok. But I'd like a PiR or 2 in the landing & hall.

Hi Koolkid, thanks for taking time to respond.

2nd fix not done yet so don't need to go for Aritech. It just what he usually installs, could even get someone else to install as he's paid for 1st fix.

We have wired for PIR in hall and upstairs landing.

All doors (2 patio doors, front door, back door) hardwired.

All windows are timber sash we no hard wire pre installed before plastering.

I think any wireless inertia fitting to the timber sash windows will look crap.
Don't know what to do! I ran extra cabling (CAT 5) for extra PIRs on ground floor in lieu of window contact/sensors but I know the bad guys will be in the house before PIRs trigger so not ideal. Also we would have to disarm alarm at night time to go downstairs so not to activate PIRs!

Wife also has concerns (health) about 20 odd wireless sensors continually emitting signals to panel from sash windows. Any merit in these concerns???

All suggestions for those damn windows much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

KoolKid

You could still get a SigNET/Siemens which would let you use Visonic wireless sensors above. The depth of them is only the width of your finger.
No concerns re wireless. You are surrounded by 100s of wireless signals everywhere you go.

fred funk }{

You could mount a wireless device discreetly to the side of the frame, out of the way and wire some hard wired devices from it. If the walls aren't decorated yet all it would need is a tiny chase, a few millimetres wide to bury each cable. It's not a big job and well worth doing.

altor

awnow wrote: »

I agree that the curly loops would be poor aesthetically. I would also imagine that they could be hazard if kids discover them - if the loops are not concealed in some manner.

In your post, can I clarify if you mean the following:

1. Wire to a combined inertia/magnetic-contact positioned at the centre bar. Fit magnetic contact to lower opening.
2. Then wire (link) from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact at the centre bar to a magnetic-contact at some point on the top opening. I presume this point would have to be up at the top of the window if the windows ARE the type that DO pass-by each other i.e. both move up and down.

In practical wiring terms, for a particular Zone, does this mean wiring a 4-core alarm cable to the centre bar/point on the first window, then looping it to the centre point on the next window and so on? And additionally at each window, trying to fish a 4-core from the combined inertia/magnetic-contact on the centre-bar to the top of the window via the channel in the frame of the window if possible? (Because the lower sliding part of the window slides up on the inside of the upper part, the contact for the upper part would have to go at the top.)

I agree they dont look great either but in terms of protecting a sash window they are the best option.

Here is the difference between the wired shock sensors that you could use, they all come as inertia/contacts also.

brinks_18476

KoolKid wrote: »

You could still get a SigNET/Siemens which would let you use Visonic wireless sensors above. The depth of them is only the width of your finger.
No concerns re wireless. You are surrounded by 100s of wireless signals everywhere you go.

Is signet system similiar price to aritech?

As far as i can see visonic is "powermax". Are you recommending signet panel/ keypads etc over the same from powermax?

Thanks

KoolKid

Powermax is a fully wireless system. SigNET/Siemens is hybrid, so you can use wired & wireless.
As SigNET uses Visonic wireless & Siemens are changing to their own wireless they will remove the licencing from any SigNET panel to allow you to use Visonic devices directly.
Price wise a SigNET 100 would be around the same as an Aritech system.

brinks_18476

KoolKid wrote: »

Powermax is a fully wireless system. SigNET/Siemens is hybrid, so you can use wired & wireless.
As SigNET uses Visonic wireless & Siemens are changing to their own wireless they will remove the licencing from any SigNET panel to allow you to use Visonic devices directly.
Price wise a SigNET 100 would be around the same as an Aritech system.

Kool koolkid. Great advice. Many thanks