Student protest to stop fee increases and protect the grant

steve_kav

Hi Im posting here to let everyone know about the student protest thats happening next week in Dublin and get everyones toughts on the matter.

I am going to post some of the facts about what we are protesting and what has happened so far.

In 1996 the Free fee's scheme was introduced along with a registration fee of £150 to pay for student services such as medical centres, councillors, clubs etc.

Over the past 15 years the registration fee has been increased 13 times in total.
In budget 2011 the registration fee was abolished and replaced with a €2000 student contribution

All grants have suffered an 8.8% cut and some students had there grant cut by an additional 60% meaning that these students recieved €6100 last year and only recieve €2445 this year.

At the student protest last year Ruairi Quinn (Labour) who is now the minister for education signed a USI pledge stating that if elected they would oppose and campaign against any new form of third level fees including student loans, graduate taxes and any further increase in the student contribution. Furthermore, they pledged to use there position in Dáil eireann to protect the higher education maintenance grant from any and all cuts. The pledge was also signed the following day by Eamonn Gilmore who is now as you know the tánaiste.

Not a single TD was willing to stand by there pre-election promises.

Students voted for these TDs because of what they promised and are very angry that the promises weren't kept.

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

The government should look at this fact and realise that if they educate us we will end up giving back more than we get and if we have an educated work force it helps to bring more businesses to ireland.

On november 16th we will be marching from Parnell square in Dublin to the government buildings.

The bottom line this year and we've been stressing it to students throughout the campaign we don't want voilence this time. Last year a small number of people causing trouble made the headlines this year we want the fact that x number of people protested to be the headline not that x number of people caused trouble.

I just want to find out what the ordinary people of Ireland think about this. Do you agree with us, do you think we should be protesting etc.

Niall09

steve_kav wrote: »

In 1996 the Free fee's scheme was introduced along with a registration gee of £150

*Snigger*

Cill Dara Abu

steve_kav wrote: »

I just want to find out what the ordinary people of Ireland think about this. Do you agree with us, do you think we should be protesting etc.

Don't give a fiddlers and no pay you're own damn fees!! Bloody sponging students!

TheZohanS

steve_kav wrote: »

bla bla bla

Never seen you around here before. You must be lost.

44leto

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

steve_kav

Ive been around quite a bit

bad2dabone

steve_kav wrote: »

The bottom line this year and we've been stressing it to students throughout the campaign we don't want voilence this time.

but next time is ok?


Pay your own damn fees, we're all broke.

TheZohanS

steve_kav wrote: »

Ive been around quite a bit

That's strange, the genie has never heard of you.

Stinicker

I suggest the students direct their protest to this address;

Fianna Fáil Headquarters
65-66 Lower Mount Street
Dublin 2

and also do a small bit of reading into what has happened to the country since 2008, the current government are not to blame for this and quite frankly trimming the wings of some of our "students" would be no harm, after christmas how many of them will drop out when the grant has run out and college is no longer the big party of booze and nights out then.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Bring Back Fees! Keep the Riff Raff out I say.:D

John Doe1

Well coming from a working class background where the grant was the only real way for me to get into the college im now in, i will definitely be joining up.
Bloody arsehole non-students:rolleyes:

TheZohanS

John Doe1 wrote: »

Well coming from a working class background where the grant was the only real way for me to get into the college im now in, i will definitely be joining up.
Bloody arsehole non-students:rolleyes:

John, it's nice to see you out of hospital but are you sure that past is your own and not just something you made up? Tell the truth now?

eth0

44leto wrote: »

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

John Doe1

TheZohan wrote: »

John, it's nice to see you out of hospital but are you sure that past is your own and not just something you made up? Tell the truth now?

¿De qué estás hablando?

tolosenc

eth0 wrote: »

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

Well attending school from 6-16 is a legal obligation, so you can't charge someone to do that...

To be honest, students will be out protesting, then it will be auld ones, then it will be god knows who. Every single one of them with exactly the same attitude. "Yes, I'm all for spending cuts, as long as they don't affect me!"

44leto

eth0 wrote: »

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

Pathetic first its the law a person must attend primary and secondary schooling, its a choice if you want to advance to third level. You don't have to you know.

hatrickpatrick

Totally approve of this and will try my best to make it.
HOWEVER:
Why has there been so little marketing for this event?
First I heard about it was yesterday, the supposed Facebook page for it redirects to the Ask Your TD campaign and makes no mention of any march next week, where is the mass postering and marketing which accompanied the last one?

These events can't succeed unless the advertising for them becomes omnipresent at least a week (in my opinion) before the event itself.

darragh16

Student myself and I think that Student Fee's should be re-introduced. It would reduce the amount of absenteeism and improve punctuality in courses. It would separate the ones who want to be there from the ones who are only doing it for the sake of it, the ones who just get the free grant money and the ones who go for free and have their oul pair pay for the car and insurance so they can travel 5 mins down the road to college.

It would reduce the amount of pressure on the exchequer. The fees would then be able to pay for lectures, professors, improvements to college lifestyle and improvement to college facilities. Also I do feel that there are a few too many colleges and that they should be amalgamated but thats for another day.

eth0

44leto wrote: »

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

44leto wrote: »

Pathetic first its the law a person must attend primary and secondary schooling, its a choice if you want to advance to third level. You don't have to you know.

Its your choice if you want to do the last few years of secondary school too if you're over 16 you can leave, maybe those at least should have fees.

"Its the law" means nothing. Its the law that says fees are what they are, the next law can say education is no longer mandatory and that you have to pay for it

keeping education mandatory and bringing in primary and secondary school fees would be a great way to bring in tax revenue, like property tax, and squeeze the middle class some more

Pride Fighter

People did not vote for Labour party policies at the last general election. Labour only got 37 seats, Fine Gael 76. The programme for government reflects that.

Neither party's manifesto is being implemented. A programme for government is being implemented. That is called politics.

If you want to protest someone, maybe protest Fianna Fail's head office for screwing this country over and calling in the EU-IMF. Remember that Labour introduced free 3rd level with Ruairi Quinn as Finance minister and Niamh Breathnach as Education minister. That is something they're both proud of. They would not be doing this unless it was necessary to get this country back into economic sovereignty.

Maybe you should ask the USI 'leaders' their political affiliations?? Most of them are Fianna Fail stooges sponging off students contributions to keep them in a job.

longhalloween

I suggest banks offer a student only loan. You take out an amount relevant to the course you're doing, add a SMALL bit for living expenses (because in fairness, Christmas/Summer jobs aren't as plentiful as they were) pay nothing + no interest for 3/4 years, then when you graduate it's up to ou to pay off the loan at a slightly higher fee than usual.

Therefore, when you're earning nothing, you pay nothing.

When you're earning a decent wage and you have a lot of disposable income you pay an above average interest fee for your education.

You win, education fully funded, the banks eventually get a return for your investment and if you dropped out or if didn't get a good degree or a decent job as a result of your education, you're f*cked (more incentive to learn)

jimmycrackcorm

steve_kav wrote: »

Hi Im posting here to let everyone know about the student protest thats happening next week in Dublin and get everyones toughts on the matter.

We need the fees to pay for more teachers of English.

44leto

eth0 wrote: »

Its your choice if you want to do the last few years of secondary school too if you're over 16 you can leave, maybe those at least should have fees.

"Its the law" means nothing. Its the law that says fees are what they are, the next law can say education is no longer mandatory and that you have to pay for it

keeping education mandatory and bringing in primary and secondary school fees would be a great way to bring in tax revenue, like property tax, and squeeze the middle class some more

It is a priviliage and one we enjoy, a lot of the world doesn't and as long as you know that it is a social cost and one we can just about afford. So we know there will be cuts, in education, personally if you can gather an extra revenue from third level students, I think that is politically acceptable.

raah!

It's a great social injustice that average joe postman has to pay for middle class mc wanker to scrape his way through a degree and spend his money on drink and cotton pants, all the while sneering at people on the dole as though he's somehow different from them. These people learn nothing and remember nothing of what they didn't learn, if they get any further employment prospects because of some scrap of paper then it's only because of the ignorance of their employers.

Of course there are some who go for an education and make the best of it, and wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, these are a great minority however.

dlofnep

I know alot of people who got out of a hole, away from the streets through education. The grant enabled them to do it. I know alot of friends from a poor background who would not have been able to afford college without the grant. It has bettered the lives of so many.

What's happening now is that there is going to be a gap created, where those who genuinely can't afford it will not be able to go to college. Labour have failed their voters. They need to stop blaming FF, and accept responsibility. They recently handed away along with FG 718 million euros to unguaranteed bondholders at the expense of the Irish public, and now intend to cut social welfare and increase the cost of education. They have sold out their principals.

valleyoftheunos

Sadly for students politicians know they can ignore students and their demands as students, are only students for 4 years after which they they leave college and stop giving a sod what happens to students or their issues.

What's more is that politicians know just how short voters memories are and that giving the students what they want now, won't result in a plethora of loyal voters come the next election.

That means that students will always be at the end of the queue when it comes to funding and at a time when there is no funding for basically anything its even worse.

Finally I'd like to take this opportunity to remind students that back in 1996 when the scheme was introduced the average cost of tuition in University here was about £4000, €5000 in todays money, not accounting for any adjustments for inflation. Your third level education is still heavily subsidised, and grants to cover the contribution are available to those who qualify on a means test. remember that things might not be as bad as you think.

amacachi

steve_kav wrote: »

"There" when it should've been "their" several times.

Yeah, we should really throw some more money into that neverending fcuking pit.

amacachi

dlofnep wrote: »

I know alot of people who got out of a hole, away from the streets through education. The grant enabled them to do it. I know alot of friends from a poor background who would not have been able to afford college without the grant. It has bettered the lives of so many.

Unfortunately the statistics show that the proportion of kids from working-class families going to college didn't increase since free fees were introduced. It saved money for working class families to send their kids to fee-paying secondary schools and grind schools, nothing else.

bleg

A reduction in college places is the only logical option. Case in point: the number of pharmacy graduates increased over the boom times to 150 from 50. These numbers are no longer necessary. Close one of the schools and you have an annual saving of at least 350,000. Rinse and repeat across the board in duplicated courses. It will also free up the time of lecturers and postgraduate students so they can concentrate more on their research.

Shane L

raah! wrote: »

It's a great social injustice that average joe postman has to pay for middle class mc wanker to scrape his way through a degree and spend his money on drink and cotton pants, all the while sneering at people on the dole as though he's somehow different from them. These people learn nothing and remember nothing of what they didn't learn, if they get any further employment prospects because of some scrap of paper then it's only because of the ignorance of their employers.

Of course there are some who go for an education and make the best of it, and wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, these are a great minority however.

I actually know a postman who had many kids who all have gone to college and would not have been able to do so without the grant and the burden of future debt. A lot of people on the dole have degrees these days ( or have emigrated). I highly doubt doctors , engineers etc remember nothing from their studies.

longhalloween

Shane L wrote: »

I actually know a postman who had many kids who all have gone to college and would not have been able to do so without the grant and the burden of future debt. A lot of people on the dole have degrees these days ( or have emigrated). I highly doubt doctors , engineers etc remember nothing from their studies.

Every one of these threads degenerates into the 'those who've benefited from free fees' vs 'those who haven't'.


Unfortunately the 'those who haven't' have more time to be spending on boards, propagating their uninformed opinions.

Robdude

If you let people go to school for free, a lot of people will go and waste the education/dollars. They'll show up, party/screw around, and fail out or drop out, or study something easy and worthless on the tax payer's dollar.

If you don't provide financial support, poorer people won't be able to afford a good education and you end up with children who have no chance at getting an education or getting a high paying job in their future.

People who study, successfully, are going to earn a lot more (on average) than those who don't. They'll pay more taxes too - so it's a win for everyone in the country. We want people to be educated; but we don't want to give people a free ride - because too many people will take advantage of it. Go to UCD on a Thursday night at midnight and see how studious and hard-working everyone is. It's a f***ing joke. And students will tell you, 'Oh, don't worry, it'll be quiet in the Spring semester when these kids leave'.

So we need a system that holds students accountable while still allowing those without financial resources to attend school.

I think we should have need-based student loans backed by the government.

Not a free-ride at all. But if you are poor/have no money, you can still get an education. You need to pay it back. That will discourage people from attending and not caring/failing out/quitting/partying. Successful students will finish their education, get a high paying job, and repay their loans.

southsiderosie

There needs to be a proper financial aid system in place before fees are reintroduced. Low income kids should get some grants, but I see no problem with students taking on some debt that they can begin to pay off once employed and earning over a certain level of money. People should take on some of the financial risk of their own education, especially considering that the long-term financial rewards of a university degree are so great.

In addition, lecturer and administration wages need to be looked at - again. There are a lot of people who are waaaay overpaid in Irish academia, especially in comparison to their peers at universities of similar or higher international ranking.

Lord TSC

I agree that grants should be protected but they should stay stringently means-tested and a way to help the lowest in society advance, not the people who can afford it to drink 5 nights a week.

As for fees though, I can't say I'm completly against them. Too many people go to college not as a means to a high level of education but for the "College experience". Too many people enroll for courses and then drop out or don't bother actually attending the lectures or doing the work required. People take college for granted nowadays and it would be no harm if people were asked to actually take some finiancial responsibilities before going into a course. If people were asked to stake a claim themselves onto a course, perhaps there'd be less wasters and more people taking it seriously.

Of course, that only works if there's a suitable loan system available for students at the same time; there's no point introducing fees and also having banks refusing to give people money. A student loan that covers college and a part of the expenses should be available that can be paid back once work begins is the best way forward, but given the state of the banks, thats not currently viable I guess...

EDIT: Also, saying "No violence" is pointless, since I believe it's not the students who are causing violent problems; its the groups who merge into the students who only want violence. Young kids who can blend in with the younger crowds, extreme political groups who want to hijack protests for their own means, etc. There's no way to stop those groups infiltrating student protests as they are usually organised; you need to think of a different means of tackling your problems with the powers-that-be and, more importantly, when the violence does start, you need to side with the police and turf the violent people out of your group instead of crying police brutality and losing all public sympathy....

Gummy Panda

I look forward to next week's thread about the Garda bashing them.

B_Fanatic

I'm a student. I think fees should be introduced, however, I also believe grants should be increased dramatically. That way the rich, i.e. those who can afford college won't be recieving thousands of euro where they do not need it and the lower class and the middle class will proportionally recieve an amount of money.

On the other hand I just learned something that sickens me. My friend, who's family onws millions of euros worth of assets and has thousands of euros in the bank got a FULL student grant. €5000. He has a car paid for by his parents and would have passed through college with little to no worries about finance. And he got a €5000 grant. When I heard it I nearly got sick. As far as I know that's about a years worth of VAT for somebody going to this guy's education. Money he doesn't need. What the **** is wrong with our government, that's clearly a flawed system.

sensibleken

I wouldnt waste my time OP. People in this forum think all protest is worthless, that all causes other than whinging on the internet are bogus, That everybody should just look after No.1 and fúck everyone else, and they are perfectly happy to accept whatever the unelected troika dictate.

but dont take it to heart, theres people in the real world who arent as apathetic

parker kent

Whilst turkeys will never vote for Christmas, so many people don't acknowledge the severe downsides to "free fees". I'm not going to bother writing all of this again, so here's what I've said the last 2 times this came up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71398453&postcount=114
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71403656&postcount=118

Fees SHOULD be brought back. All it has done is helped better off people put more money into 2nd level education, decreased funding for universities (thus causing a need to increase the amount of people in each course), increased the private/public school divide in third level and created a generation who expect third level education and view it as a right.

-Whilst it should be available to all, it should not actually be everybody who does go to Third Level. They should cut the amount of places by between 5% and 10% in general. And postgraduate education should not be viewed as a cash cow to fund 3rd Level. The opportunity should be there for everybody, but it is not a right. You should earn it and deserve it.

The well off families just use the money to improve their children's secondary education. The disparity between well off students and under privileged students has grown since free fees came in.

I say what I always say, bring back fees for those that can afford them and improve the grant system. Care should be taken so that those just over the current grant threshold are not screwed, but free fees should be a thing of the past.

Lord TSC

sensibleken wrote: »

I wouldnt waste my time OP. People in this forum think all protest is worthless, that all causes other than whinging on the internet are bogus, That everybody should just look after No.1 and fúck everyone else, and they are perfectly happy to accept whatever the unelected troika dictate.

but dont take it to heart, theres people in the real world who arent as apathetic

Yes, don't waste your time with actual debate and discussion on a topic. Dismiss people's real concerns and attack their credibility by calling them "internet whingers". It's easier to hold a view on something when you just ignore the points of those who disagree with you.

:rolleyes:

skywalker

Totally agree with the protests, & If I can come out & support ye, I will. I was lucky enough to go to college just after the free fees were introduced, & I was bloody glad of the education I got. Every child of this country deserves the same as me.

As has been said I am now paying back what I got in spades in the form of higher taxation, & I'm glad to do so.

We are a small island on the periphery of Europe, when all the tax breaks are gone, the only thing that will keep the high paying jobs here are innovation, & a well educated workforce.

Fishooks12

Stinicker wrote: »

I suggest the students direct their protest to this address;

Fianna Fáil Headquarters
65-66 Lower Mount Street
Dublin 2

and also do a small bit of reading into what has happened to the country since 2008, the current government are not to blame for this and quite frankly trimming the wings of some of our "students" would be no harm, after christmas how many of them will drop out when the grant has run out and college is no longer the big party of booze and nights out then.

Putting the word students in brackets to try and belittle people availing of third level education to get a good job followed by a huge generalisation.

Maybe stop being bitter about not having the brains, or the opportunity to go to college yourself?

Mardy Bum

B_Fanatic wrote: »

I'm a student. I think fees should be introduced, however, I also believe grants should be increased dramatically. That way the rich, i.e. those who can afford college won't be recieving thousands of euro where they do not need it and the lower class and the middle class will proportionally recieve an amount of money.

On the other hand I just learned something that sickens me. My friend, who's family onws millions of euros worth of assets and has thousands of euros in the bank got a FULL student grant. €5000. He has a car paid for by his parents and would have passed through college with little to no worries about finance. And he got a €5000 grant. When I heard it I nearly got sick. As far as I know that's about a years worth of VAT for somebody going to this guy's education. Money he doesn't need. What the **** is wrong with our government, that's clearly a flawed system.

If the family are not declaring their income correctly there is not much the government can do apart from send down revenue.

sensibleken

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Yes, don't waste your time with actual debate and discussion on a topic. Dismiss people's real concerns and attack their credibility by calling them "internet whingers". It's easier to hold a view on something when you just ignore the points of those who disagree with you.

:rolleyes:

Im not calling people who disagree with the OP whingers. I should have made that more clear so my apologies.

It is a complex issue to which both have valid arguements and my personal view is that it should be free but under current conditions that is not possible so the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

There are those however who will simply dissmiss any form of protest as a waste of time and throw a few ad hominem arguements around about lazy students or 'get a job'. Those are who i have issue with, not those who actually have arguments.

SugarCoat

I know some of you may be be angry at me for suggesting this but...What if the every university student paid an extra €1000 and every IT student pay an extra €500?The universities generally have students from more privilaged backgrounds and the costs are far far greater than the ITs for things like upkeep of the building,lecturer's pay etc.While the ITs are generally low cost and sustainable.

there were more than 160,000 students in 2010 so lets say around 1/2 of them(80,000)are uni students.
80,000X1000=80,000,000
80,000X500=40,000,000

so 120million could be saved that way,add in other savings such as cap spending on items that do not effect education such as chairs,windows etc and introduce schemes where students work 1 day a week as a module to earn money for the institution to make up the rest of the shortfall

just my €0.02...

Lord TSC

sensibleken wrote: »

Im not calling people who disagree with the OP whingers. I should have made that more clear so my apologies.

It is a complex issue to which both have valid arguements and my personal view is that it should be free but under current conditions that is not possible so the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

There are those however who will simply dissmiss any form of protest as a waste of time and throw a few ad hominem arguements around about lazy students or 'get a job'. Those are who i have issue with, not those who actually have arguments.

I wouldn't be one who uses arguements about lazy students or get a job, but I have argued in the past that protests like the one being proposed here ARE a waste of time.

The problem with these protests is the message they send. They preach a message of wanting to protect the education of the poor while being nearly completly led and organised by people with "posh" accents. And its not realistic in this day and age to expect things to remain the same as they were 5 or 10 years ago. The problem with these protests then is that the protesters rarely actually campaign on a stable, workable message; rather than trying to help shape the reintroduction of fees to be fair to a large majority and target those who can easily pay the fees, they go with a blanket "no fees" statement which is going to get nowhere, either with the government or the public who you need on your side.

Then, you have the fact these protests WILL be hijacked, by a mix of ****ers who will cause violent trouble and by extreme political groups who most normal people want nothing to do with, and in the process, they further ruin the message that is trying to be sent.

I've said it before but I will again; these mass scale protests do nothing but frustrate the public and turn public opinion against students. Personally, I'd rather see the student unions of the Unis and Colleges organise small sit-ins or the likes, whereby a small group of students go along to governmental buildings or offices of FF people who caused the problems and distrupt them AND ONLY THEM! There'd be no room for violence since a small group could be watched over, and any outbreaks could be instantly denounced by the small group. Political parties could **** right off since a small group can make sure they don't interfere. And most importantly, you're not punishing the entire public by clogging up the streets, doing damage, etc.

freeze4real

The student fee and grant should be reformed.

Depending on your results each one should get an allocated percentage of the grant.

E.g after Christmas send your results to the grant office depending on how good it's you should get most or all of it.

If its poor e.g 45% downward you should get 40% of it.

Thise who don't deserve it ate getting it and using it to fund their petrol for their cars or pay for their next parties.


Its about time the government woke up. An I up for an increase in fees ? No but grant has to be reformed.

sensibleken

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I wouldn't be one who uses arguements about lazy students or get a job, but I have argued in the past that protests like the one being proposed here ARE a waste of time.

The problem with these protests is the message they send. They preach a message of wanting to protect the education of the poor while being nearly completly led and organised by people with "posh" accents. And its not realistic in this day and age to expect things to remain the same as they were 5 or 10 years ago. The problem with these protests then is that the protesters rarely actually campaign on a stable, workable message; rather than trying to help shape the reintroduction of fees to be fair to a large majority and target those who can easily pay the fees, they go with a blanket "no fees" statement which is going to get nowhere, either with the government or the public who you need on your side.

Then, you have the fact these protests WILL be hijacked, by a mix of ****ers who will cause violent trouble and by extreme political groups who most normal people want nothing to do with, and in the process, they further ruin the message that is trying to be sent.

I've said it before but I will again; these mass scale protests do nothing but frustrate the public and turn public opinion against students. Personally, I'd rather see the student unions of the Unis and Colleges organise small sit-ins or the likes, whereby a small group of students go along to governmental buildings or offices of FF people who caused the problems and distrupt them AND ONLY THEM! There'd be no room for violence since a small group could be watched over, and any outbreaks could be instantly denounced by the small group. Political parties could **** right off since a small group can make sure they don't interfere. And most importantly, you're not punishing the entire public by clogging up the streets, doing damage, etc.

when have student protests turned violent in ireland. There was a small row when some tried to organise a sit in in the dept of finance last time but it hardly caused much damage.

whether they have posh accents or not does not impact on their arguement and asking them to help reshape the spending and facilitate the introduction of fair fees is asking a third party to help with government policy. whereas they are against brining them in full stop.

Thats actually how you approach a negotiation, if your starting point is we will help you re introduce fees you have no hope of getting any of your demands as will doing nothing. you start from a no fees standpoint and give your reasons, if your reasons are valid but it cant be afforded then a fairer solution can be introduced rather than the easiest solution.

Quinn is a guy who spearheaded free third level education in the first place, I believe personally he is willing to listen to the arguments of the protesters

steve_kav

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Totally approve of this and will try my best to make it.
HOWEVER:
Why has there been so little marketing for this event?
First I heard about it was yesterday, the supposed Facebook page for it redirects to the Ask Your TD campaign and makes no mention of any march next week, where is the mass postering and marketing which accompanied the last one?

These events can't succeed unless the advertising for them becomes omnipresent at least a week (in my opinion) before the event itself.

I cant speak for other colleges but we have a massive campaign in LIT to get people to go.

steve_kav

Pride Fighter wrote: »

People did not vote for Labour party policies at the last general election. Labour only got 37 seats, Fine Gael 76. The programme for government reflects that.

Neither party's manifesto is being implemented. A programme for government is being implemented. That is called politics.

If you want to protest someone, maybe protest Fianna Fail's head office for screwing this country over and calling in the EU-IMF. Remember that Labour introduced free 3rd level with Ruairi Quinn as Finance minister and Niamh Breathnach as Education minister. That is something they're both proud of. They would not be doing this unless it was necessary to get this country back into economic sovereignty.

Maybe you should ask the USI 'leaders' their political affiliations?? Most of them are Fianna Fail stooges sponging off students contributions to keep them in a job.

Well if the government now detest the cuts made by the last government so much then why don't they just reverse it all and make the cuts that they feel are necessary.

steve_kav

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We need the fees to pay for more teachers of English.

I don't currently study English and I dont plan to.

steve_kav

sensibleken wrote: »

I wouldnt waste my time OP. People in this forum think all protest is worthless, that all causes other than whinging on the internet are bogus, That everybody should just look after No.1 and fúck everyone else, and they are perfectly happy to accept whatever the unelected troika dictate.

but dont take it to heart, theres people in the real world who arent as apathetic

I don't take anything to heart. I came here for opinions and i'm happy to be getting opinions of all kinds