Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Since Quinn began business he created thousands of jobs all over the country and created an enterprise worth about 5 billion. The biggest mistake he make was to invest in Anglo. When the bust came, he lost billions in shares! In order to sustain most of those jobs he had created, he had to take out a massive loan.

Yes, he make a mistake by investing in Anglo, we all make mistakes. Those who decided to take 100% mortgages during the boom made a mistake too. Nobody's perfect. However, it's terribly disingenuous to turn a blind eye to all the good thing Quinn has done over the past 30 years and paint him as a crook like those bankers who got his business and other people in the rest of the country into the mess they're in in the first place.

you haven't a clue, he's a gambler thats all, he rolled the dice a few times and got lucky and hence started business and created employment, every loan he took out was given security.

Answer this question, why does he take the risk? one reason and one reason only - greed.

i love your comparison wit the 100% loans, you see the bankers chasin for their money, you don't see people being able to refuse to pay, default on their loans and keep their property - do you?

Ace2007

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

lol

evolving_doors

In reality i'd say his employees were a means to an end..
Lets not kid ourselves .he didn;t go into business rubbing his hands with glee saying " oh I'm going to create so many jobs horayyy"

How can someone with 2.8 BILLION to spare want or need more money?
If I won 2.8MILLION in the lotto i'd be happy enough with my lot... never mind 2.8 BILLION

SHEER GREED

Killer Pigeon

overshoot wrote: »

didnt bother reading most of the posts but in response to the op yes i still do respect him. he started with a second hand truck and how thanks to him thousands are still employed in the border area which the governent couldnt give a shit about. even if he does owe 2.8 billion, how much more has gone into the border economy through his jobs? how much was paid in tax before it went tits up? how many of these jobs would have been created without him?
to sum up id still say he has contributed more than he has cost us

I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people, by the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.

kumate_champ07

a gambler doesnt get to keep the pot when he's lost the game

this guy is a criminal. CAB should go after his family

Kasabian

overshoot wrote: »

didnt bother reading most of the posts but in response to the op yes i still do respect him. he started with a second hand truck and how thanks to him thousands are still employed in the border area which the governent couldnt give a shit about. even if he does owe 2.8 billion, how much more has gone into the border economy through his jobs? how much was paid in tax before it went tits up? how many of these jobs would have been created without him?
to sum up id still say he has contributed more than he has cost us

You do realise that his business deals played a part in the figure of 450000 unemployed in this country.

Are you another of the "beholding" in Cavan?

How many jobs would 2.8 billion create?

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

When did he take the loan out of Anglo. Was it before or after the Anglo was nationalised. If he happened before Anglo was nationalised, then he did not intend to leave any onus on the taxpayer.

But the thing is, he wouldn't have been able to pay back the 2.8 billion in the first place.

These are the options he had after if these scenarios happened after the bank guarantee;
(a) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Don't take out loan. Can't pay employees. They all lose their jobs.
(b) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Take out massive loan. Bank gets nationalised. Responsibility to keep these thousands of employees now falls on government who help fuck the country up in the first place.

Which would you choose?

Why gamble with the jobs of others?
if you care about your employees you don't gamble - he had no need to gamble, he gambled for greed, he wanted more and more and more.

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people who fall in line with the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.

you say he did this and did that for the irish community, than why does he not file for bankruptcy in the irish state which is left to clean up his mess?

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people who fall in line with the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.

This is garbage. He owned at least fifteen percent of Anglo; he was in a position to set the agenda of the bank's policies. And to echo another poster: if he did so much for the community, why doesn't he declare bankruptcy here?

Killer Pigeon

desertcircus wrote: »

That was after he invested a couple of billion in buying up somewhere between 15% and 25% of the bank. When Anglo's share price dropped, he was loaned 288m by the bank in order to buy up shares in the form of CFDs to shore up the share price. That's where a huge chunk of the loss was.

Previously, you very conveniently left out the part where he invested on the order of €2 billion in Anglo before he was loaned €288m. So he has €2 billion in the bank. I honestly couldn't give a crap if there is some question mark over whether or not his attempt to shore up the share price was illegal or not. He very rightly was making the effort to keep the value of his company so he wouldn't have to lay off so many people. It's a lot better than what the real crooks did.

desertcircus wrote: »

He took out huge loans and made personal guarantees on them. now those guarantees are being called in and he's doing everything he can to avoid doing what he agreed to do in the first place. Every penny he and his family still have at the end of these proceedings is money stolen from people on the breadline in this country; children with special educational needs; businesses who have to deal with higher taxes.

Emotion driven nonsense. How the hell would he have known that the banks were going to be nationalised when he invested so much money in the bank.

desertcircus wrote: »

As I've said, if he handed over everything once it became clear that his debts were going to become public, then I'd have some respect for him. He didn't, though, and people are going to go hungry, go cold, go without the teaching assistance they need, go without the medical treatment they need - because he's unwilling to do what he agreed to in the first place. Scum.

If she did that sure wouldn't there be even more jobs lost at the Quinn Group leading to thousands of job losses.

He did more than any other businessman to help his employees and his community than any other businessman in the last 30 year. I find your use of the word "scum" highly disingenuous.

Killer Pigeon

desertcircus wrote: »

This is garbage. He owned at least fifteen percent of Anglo; he was in a position to set the agenda of the bank's policies. And to echo another poster: if he did so much for the community, why doesn't he declare bankruptcy here?

1) How they hell is someone who holds a mere 15% of a company supposed to set the entire companies agenda?

2) Perhaps because he wants to get back into business (and get the ball rolling) after 1 year and not 12 years?

Guy:Incognito

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case. .

Should those poeple be able to sign the house over to their kids , declare themselves bankrupt and keep living there in the free house?

Quinn only had a business because he ignored the rules that others had to conduct their businesses by andrisked all of those employees jobs. If the natural course of things had been let occur, like with other private companies, all those peopel would eb on the dole now,purely because of Sean Quinn.

emo72

Howjoe1 wrote: »

There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

Quinn through a complicated maze has put all his assets in family member names and moved them off shore.

Is he penniless? i don't believe so. Is he still a millionaire? i think so.

Is that €2.8 BILLION that is owed to Anglo Irish Bank, that State has gauranteed in our names as citizens, for which we suffer cuts to pay the Bond Holders, are we not to see I penny of it?

AM I feeling sorry for Quinn? No

Just another black day in this Banana Republic.

lets be honest he is a self serving cant . Him and his family will never suffer. We will. He is a cant .

Killer Pigeon

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

a gambler doesnt get to keep the pot when he's lost the game

this guy is a criminal. CAB should go after his family

"Yes, Joe, I know I don't really understand the situation, but it's a disgrace, Joe, a disgrace".

nacho libre

To think there were certain respected journalists who penned articles prior to the economy imploding depicting him as a man who lived a modest life, whose simply pleasure was to play cards with friends, but never for high stakes

Killer Pigeon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Should those poeple be able to sign the house over to their kids , declare themselves bankrupt and keep living there in the free house?

No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Quinn only had a business because he ignored the rules that others had to conduct their businesses by andrisked all of those employees jobs. If the natural course of things had been let occur, like with other private companies, all those peopel would eb on the dole now,purely because of Sean Quinn.

As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

UglyBolloxFace

syklops wrote: »

We lost a lot of things during the boom, but its nice to see we didnt lose everything. Things like begrudgery and the delight we have at seeing people who tried, fail.

Stay proud lazygal.

Are you ****ing serious? And are all the people who thanked your post ****ing serious? This scumbag bet on the markets to his advantage...when they failed he went running to NAMA.

You can go and **** off with your rhetoric and, above all, your sheep behaviour.

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.



As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

LMAO HE EARNED HIS PROPERTY - NO HE DIDN'T HE GAMBLED HIS WAY TO THE TOP AND WON THE GAMBLES, UNTIL HE TOOK ONE TO MANY.

If you think he cares about his employess why would be gamble with their jobs? you keep skipping this question, why gamble with them?

Kasabian

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.



As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

You are a hypocrite.

Paparazzo

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

Johnny Ronin? Is that you?

overshoot

Kasabian wrote: »

You do realise that his business deals played a part in the figure of 450000 unemployed in this country.

Are you another of the "beholding" in Cavan?

How many jobs would 2.8 billion create?

is everyone who defends him from cavan in your opinion? ffs, from the few posts i read im not the only person who has had to say where he is from because id support him when considering his lifetime contribution. no i am not and dont think he has (directly or not) put any jobs into where i am from. but pass thorugh the area and when you do stuff like pass 27 quinn trucks in an hour you realise just how important he is to the area... i was a bored passenger and after 5 minutes started thinking this is mad

any jobs would 2.8 billion create? about 500000 at a wage of 50k for one year but ya can be damn sure they wouldnt be in cavan or fermanagh... are you one of the "beholding" in dublin who just want all the jobs?

Guy:Incognito

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people. .

No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

He helped every one of them on to it. The only reason they are not on the dole is because the government decided not to let the company fold. He ran it in to the ground and if normal service was allowed to occur, it wuldnt exist anymore.

kumate_champ07

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

"Yes, Joe, I know I don't really understand the situation, but it's a disgrace, Joe, a disgrace".

great point, thanks for that

Killer Pigeon

Ace2007 wrote: »

LMAO HE EARNED HIS PROPERTY - NO HE DIDN'T HE GAMBLED HIS WAY TO THE TOP AND WON THE GAMBLES, UNTIL HE TOOK ONE TO MANY.

He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARNED IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.

Ace2007 wrote: »

If you think he cares about his employess why would be gamble with their jobs? you keep skipping this question, why gamble with them?

You never asked me why (or even if) he gambled with jobs. He made a mistake, granted, investing in Anglo in the first place. But when he realised that Anglo shares were falling, at least he made the effort to rack up the share price, which would keep the company's value which in turn would help pay employees.

Killer Pigeon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.

Personally I think that someone who created companies from scratch and employed thousands earned a nice house. Just my personally opinion. And do you have evidence going back THIRTY YEARS to suggest that he fraudulently ran his companies?

Killer Pigeon

Kasabian wrote: »

You are a hypocrite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PtJRy1oEA4

Guy:Incognito

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Personally I think that someone who created companies from scratch and employed thousands earned a nice house. Just my personally opinion. And do you have evidence going back THIRTY YEARS to suggest that he fraudulently ran his companies?

So employees are idiots for buying a house, but their employer is great for buyign one and he earned it?Howzat?

He fraudulently ran his insurance company because he didnt keep the cash resveres he was obliged to keep and that his competitors kept. Its easy to beat others if you just ignore the rules.

overshoot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.

He helped every one of them on to it. The only reason they are not on the dole is because the government decided not to let the company fold. He ran it in to the ground and if normal service was allowed to occur, it wuldnt exist anymore.

He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARN IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.

comes down to the above imo, if quinn is a thieving git for building up a company from scratch and fucking it up so he cant pay his debts isnt the man who cant pay his morgage in a similar boat?
both may have started with nothing, both thought they would have money and ended up in negative equity.
difference is quinn's debt is bigger (because he bought an already fooked insurance company and bought a load of shares in a company with overcooked books) but he employed 8000 directly in 2009 plus hundreds more indirectly, so 8000+ could afford houses thanks to him. (8000 morgages at 200,000 is 1.6bn to give a scale)
as i said, 2.8bn debt now but how much money has his company contributed over the last 30 years? big picture!

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARN IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.


You never asked me why (or even if) he gambled with jobs. He made a mistake, granted, investing in Anglo in the first place. But when he realised that Anglo shares were falling, at least he made the effort to rack up the share price, which would keep the company's value which in turn would help pay employees.

So what he built in 30 years - he lost in one roll of the dice?
his companies also had €100's millions of debts - just for the record.

but why take this risk, you don't seem to understand, he was gambling everything, why put it all on the line??? -


Maybe he has put it all on the line before and won?

His gambling could eventually end up with all those people losing their jobs if they american company pulls out of ireland in the future.

He openly admits to owing over 200million to the banks but will not pay this back, and has given milions to his family - you obv don't understand the difference of right and wrong?

Killer Pigeon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So employees are idiots for buying a house

When did I say that?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

but their employer is great for buyign one and he earned it?

If he earned it, then yeah...

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He fraudulently ran his insurance company because he didnt keep the cash resveres he was obliged to keep and that his competitors kept. Its easy to beat others if you just ignore the rules.

When were these rules enforced and how long has Quinn been building up his businesses?

ray giraffe

overshoot wrote: »

comes down to the above imo, if quinn is a thieving git for building up a company from scratch and fucking it up so he cant pay his debts isnt the man who cant pay his morgage in a similar boat?
both may have started with nothing, both thought they would have money and ended up in negative equity.
difference is quinn's debt is bigger but he employed 8000 directly in 2009 plus hundreds more indirectly, so 8000+ could afford houses thanks to him.
as i said, 2.8bn debt now but how much money has his company contributed over the last 30 years? big picture!

You obviously don't understand how big 2.8 billion is. It dwarfs the contribution he made to Co. Cavan and Fermanagh

Ace2007

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

When were these rules enforced and how long has Quinn been building up his businesses?

The reason's why it wasn't expose earlier where for outside reasons, just cause you don't get caught doesn't mean your not a criminal.

overshoot

ray giraffe wrote: »

You obviously don't understand how big 2.8 billion is. It dwarfs the contribution he made to Co. Cavan and Fermanagh

i added in a bit where if his 8000 employees got a morgage at 200000 its 1.6bn.... + disposable income from the job + spin off...now over 30 years..... we start to come up and probably past 2.8billion

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He very rightly was making the effort to keep the value of his company so he wouldn't have to lay off so many people. It's a lot better than what the real crooks did.



Emotion driven nonsense. How the hell would he have known that the banks were going to be nationalised when he invested so much money in the bank.



If she did that sure wouldn't there be even more jobs lost at the Quinn Group leading to thousands of job losses.

He did more than any other businessman to help his employees and his community than any other businessman in the last 30 year. I find your use of the word "scum" highly disingenuous.

In order:

1. To repeat: taking a loan from a company to buy shares in that company is illegal at worst and extremely unethical at best. The most charitable perspective is that he borrowed nearly three hundred million he didn't have and colluded with the bank to mislead investors, shareholders and the public at large. I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good thing - people are claiming he's a victim? That isn't good behaviour; it's awful.

2. Again: I would have some respect for him had he handed over the money once it became clear that the money he wasn't paying back was money coming out of the public purse. He didn't, so it's the post-meltdown period we're talking about.

3. No. We're talking about him holding personal wealth and spreading it around his family to keep it from the people he owes it to, SINCE he lost control of the Quinn Group. What he does now has no bearing on the number of jobs kept or lost within that group, because it's not his anymore.

4. How are people not getting this? He's costing this country nearly three billion euro. To put that into perspective, our annual budget is in the region of 40-50 billion a year. That's a staggering amount of money.

And finally: I DON'T CARE WHAT HE DID BEFORE THIS. It doesn't matter, any more than a serial killer's history of feeding stray cats matters in making a judgment on him. He made a series of decisions that cost the state almost three billion euro, and is now leading his creditors on a wild goose chase while trying to weasel out of his responsibilities by declaring bankruptcy in a neighbouring country.

woodoo

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

a gambler doesnt get to keep the pot when he's lost the game

this guy is a criminal. CAB should go after his family

Exactly, this business of transferring assets into the families name to avoid debts should be a criminal offence.

Plenty more of the big fish have been at the same. They are a disgrace. Enemies of the people.

ray giraffe

overshoot wrote: »

i added in a bit where if his 8000 employees got a morgage at 200000 its 1.6bn.... + disposable income from the job + spin off...now over 30 years..... we start to come up and probably past 2.8billion

1. For most of 30 years there have been nowhere near 8000 employees employed by Quinn.

2. If I employ you for 30 years and you earn (say) a million euro, have I "given" you a million euro? You have had to work for 30 years for it. In any case, you would have been able to earn a similar income in another job in a different part of Ireland or UK with a similar skillset.

3. Let's imagine he "gave" wages to 8000 people for 30 years. How much would those 8000 employees have to "give back" to cancel out 2.8 billion? €350,000 each. Do you think they would still be happy with the deal?

If Quinn's losses were imposed on his ex-employees, every one of them would be bankrupt before 2.8 billion would be recovered. Imagine!

Now we can see the the total cost to several million taxpayers is in fact far greater than the total benefit to several thousand employees.


I am sure the above argument still holds even if you include all taxes paid by Quinn + Employees over the years - counted as a gain for the country.


I guess you could take the line that Co. Cavan as a whole is better off with Quinn having been around than having not been around, even considering his huge losses. And you're probably right.

However every other county in the south is a net loser, baling out Quinn while having received far less benefit than Co. Cavan.

Ace2007

overshoot wrote: »

i added in a bit where if his 8000 employees got a morgage at 200000 its 1.6bn.... + disposable income from the job + spin off...now over 30 years..... we start to come up and probably past 2.8billion

over 30 years? it's only within the last 10 years i'd say that the average cost of a house was 200k, of these 8k how many are now struggling to pay it off, how many are thinking what the future holds, the possibility that because of quinn's gamble that didn't win that their jobs could be gone in 5 years time?

Simple put, had he not been greedy, risk it ALL, risk all the jobs, then none of this would have happend, he wouldn't have found himself in this mess, he wouldn't have had to declare himself bankrupt, people wouldn't have to worry.

one man's greed = 8,000 worried people (based on your calculatoins) - true figure is about 5,000

I wonder why he filed for it this week, a week after anglo went to the high court? hmm, why wait till now. He's a coward.

Ace2007

also to add, he is going to sue anglo apparantly - where is he going to get the money to fight the case?

NIMAN

I love the way the media reports are full of "once Irelands richest man, SQ is now bankrupt", as if he has nothing left and is the same as you and me.

Yeah, I would guess he is really struggling to cope with the couple of hundred million that he and his family have to survive on. Money that is well hidden by his clever accountants and advisors.

dixiefly

syklops wrote: »

We lost a lot of things during the boom, but its nice to see we didnt lose everything. Things like begrudgery and the delight we have at seeing people who tried, fail.

Stay proud lazygal.

Easy to throw out the begrudgery line, Quinn took a massive massive gamble that failed spectacularly. Also he seems to have indulged in dodgy business practices.

So, I dont think people are begrudging when they agree that he is not a great businessman.

Then again it probably depends on what you term to be a great businessman.

ascanbe

This is the country where fraudsters aren't even properly investigated and can rely on the government, i.e. the citizens of this country, to pick up the tab for the preposterously enormous gambling losses they accrued.
And it's the country where others who accrued preposterous losses in their speculation on the property market aren't expected to pay their debt/suffer any consequences, can rely on the government to pick up the tab on behalf of the citizens and, not only that, are then kept in gainful employment managing the 'property portfolio' at the root of the problem, and GET PAID A SIZEABLE WAGE for the privilege.
You really would struggle to make this sh*t up.
But then, this is Ireland and it will continue as long as people let it continue.

woodoo

Ace2007 wrote: »

also to add, he is going to sue anglo apparantly - where is he going to get the money to fight the case?

Watch this banana republic in action. He will sue Anglo and win. We own Anglo so we will end up giving him more money.

okiss

Exactly, this business of transferring assets into the families name to avoid debts should be a criminal offence.
In regards to the above one of Sean Quinn daughter trained as a nurse in Mater hospital and it was a well known fact that one his pubs in Drumcondra was her name.
So Sean was doing this long before his fall from grace.

He said today that his business was in Co Farmanagh and that is why he became bankrupt in the North of Ireland. What a load of s***** when in 12 month time he can open a new business.
Sean Quinn has left us clearing up his mess. He made no effort what so ever in letting us get some of the money back which he gambled from the sale of his assets.
He still lives in a large house and is not worried that the bank is going to take away any day now. He is not signing on in Cavan each week and deciding which bill to pay next. He is not worried that his wife will lose her job or how his kids will get through college or have the money to leave Ireland.

Ronin247

Ace2007 wrote: »

lol

Decent,intelligent reply

Ace2007 wrote: »

The reason's why it wasn't expose earlier where for outside reasons, just cause you don't get caught doesn't mean your not a criminal.

We keep hearing how the laws are not sufficient to lock up the bankers and investors,funny how when Quinn bought BUPA the government managed to pass legislation after close of business to stop Quinn not having to pay for risk equalisation.
I am not saying Quinn is a saint but the government went out of the way to try putting him in his place.Harneys legislation did not hold up in a supreme court appeal.


I feel that because Quinn is not part of the D4 clique and is "new" money he got fcuked over.I do believe that he will go to court with Anglo and win,he will still be rich and we will still be paying the bill.I do not blame Quinn for this I blame the government that took over a private companies debts for no good reason.
Anglo got money off bondholders,loaned money to Quinn to buy shares,loaned money to builders to speculate,cooked the accounts untill it was no longer able to hide the losses causing the share price to crash.Quinn lost a shed full of money and so couldnt repay the bank who in turn couldnt repay the bondholders.Government steps in and pays the bondholders and blames Quinn for the losses.

The banks gambled,the bondholders gambled,Sean Quinn gambled,they all lost and we got the bill...One big ponzi scheme.

K-9

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARNED IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.



You never asked me why (or even if) he gambled with jobs. He made a mistake, granted, investing in Anglo in the first place. But when he realised that Anglo shares were falling, at least he made the effort to rack up the share price, which would keep the company's value which in turn would help pay employees.

To get some idea of what Quinn did with Anglo, just to put some kind of perspective on the f*ck up he did:

It's the biggest single loss EVER, on a transaction like that. Not in Ireland, in the world. This was some jumped up bank in Ireland.

Buffet and the likes lost more but that was over years, and made it back over years.

The guy didn't have a clue of what he is getting into.

he was lauded for creating jobs in a bog-hole and the government loved him for it for taking people off the scratcher up there but it was just an artificial reserves fake. disgusts me that people are still standing up for him. it's retarded.

eire.man

typical Irish atitude towards the man, he tried to do something that failed and at a real wrong time! simple. I keep thinking it must be some sickener to go from +€5.5bn to -€2.8

I also keep thinking how the inner circle may have pitched this to Sean, knowing the true state of the banks finances and may have let his put the noose around his neck to save face for the "bigger boys". I've seen people convinced to invest (albeit much smaller amounts but then that's relative really) in business ventures just to share the burden and that could be what played out here.

Guy:Incognito

Ronin247 wrote: »

I feel that because Quinn is not part of the D4 clique and is "new" money he got fcuked over..

Who "fcucked him over" by making him not conform to the rules that other companies had to abide by?

desertcircus

eire.man wrote: »

typical Irish atitude towards the man, he tried to do something that failed and at a real wrong time! simple. I keep thinking it must be some sickener to go from +€5.5bn to -€2.8

I also keep thinking how the inner circle may have pitched this to Sean, knowing the true state of the banks finances and may have let his put the noose around his neck to save face for the "bigger boys". I've seen people convinced to invest (albeit much smaller amounts but then that's relative really) in business ventures just to share the burden and that could be what played out here.

He WAS the inner circle. By the time things went bad he owned between a sixth and a quarter of Anglo. He was on the hook for over two billion BEFORE everything went bad. How are people still misunderstanding this?

Patrick2010

Quinn was worth a fortune but got greedy and wanted more, risking his companies and all his employees jobs. Now him and his family are trying to get out of paying back the money he borrowed (I assume no one put a gun to his head and forced him to take it). If he doesn't pay back the 2.8 billion then it'll have to come from the taxpayer. I assume those standing up for the great man are happy to take on this debt?