Why Divers Die

BigDuffman

Great article. http://www.divingmedicine.info/divingmedicine/Welcome_files/Ch%2034%20SM10c.pdf Some very interesting stats. When its broken down like that and I think back on some disaster dives, I can really see how accidents can happen if not actioned properly.


Particularly interesting stats:

90% Still had their weight belt on
86% As a result of buddy not being present

BigDuffman

Point to note! Any newbie or potential divers please do not be put off by reading that! If anything it should be a relief, as if you listen to the training and act as instructed you will not encounter problems! As you can see from stats people died as a result of not following procedure

seadeuce

Yes, hadn't checked that site in some time. Thanks for posting.

But one would do well to keep an open mind when it comes to statistics. For example, it states that only 1% of dive buddies died while attempting a rescue.

It concludes that buddy rescue is, therefore, quite safe to attempt.

However, it does not allow for the failed rescue, nor the refused rescue. Yes, I mean no response to a demand for assistance.

In both of these cases the outcome for the buddy of the diver in trouble would be positive, ie he survives. That then skews the statistics.

If I am diving with someone I know, who has been through the same training etc., then I would possibly ask for assistance if in need.
If I dive with another buddy classification, I dive alone, I rescue alone, I survive alone. Safer than wasting valuable time getting to that unknown package of a buddy who may very well give me two fingers when asked for a donation of air.

For the newbies who read this, I would recommend you dive with a known buddy from a known source, and do the Rescue Diver with a view to being able to perform a self-rescue.

Trusting your life to a "Professional" from God-knows-where-and-what in some foreign locale is high-risk.

Notice they don't have any statistics for the 1% who died while rescuing. Were they "Instabuddies", ie a pick-up at a dive centre?

Not being cynical here, but very objective, and very selective too.



Seadeuce

howtomake

Thanks for that. Yeah I'm doing the rescue training next year. That shark pic was funny though.

Actually I just remembered a few years ago while we were away in a foreign country, the 2nd dive I did since getting my Padi Open Water (and there was about a year in between them), I was paired with my buddy, who had the same amount of experience I did, we were running low on air (can't remember how low, but low enough for the instructor to tell us to go up), and we were told to go up together while the instructor stayed down.

Anyway after joining a club last year, have learned bucket loads of safety procedures since then.

BigDuffman

seadeuce wrote: »

But one would do well to keep an open mind when it comes to statistics. For example, it states that only 1% of dive buddies died while attempting a rescue.

It concludes that buddy rescue is, therefore, quite safe to attempt.

However, it does not allow for the failed rescue, nor the refused rescue. Yes, I mean no response to a demand for assistance.

In both of these cases the outcome for the buddy of the diver in trouble would be positive, ie he survives. That then skews the statistics.

If I am diving with someone I know, who has been through the same training etc., then I would possibly ask for assistance if in need.
If I dive with another buddy classification, I dive alone, I rescue alone, I survive alone. Safer than wasting valuable time getting to that unknown package of a buddy who may very well give me two fingers when asked for a donation of air.

For the newbies who read this, I would recommend you dive with a known buddy from a known source, and do the Rescue Diver with a view to being able to perform a self-rescue.


Seadeuce

+1 on the lie lies and damn statistics point. I always take everything I see represented statistically with a pinch of salt. But as far as articles go it seems to be quite well put together in terms of stat sources.

Hmm I tend to dive with divers that I know or from same club so not really an issue I've had to consider before. But even with a "instabuddy" (love that coinage seadeuce I'm yoinking it) if the sh!t hit the regulator I'd still look to a buddy first and use self rescue as a last resort.

But each to their own, I'm not an overly cynical type. I like to think that most divers would step up to the mark.

Peace

BigDuffman wrote: »

if the sh!t hit the regulator I'd still look to a buddy first and use self rescue as a last resort.

But each to their own, I'm not an overly cynical type. I like to think that most divers would step up to the mark.

Interesting. I always did it the other way around as it kept the self reliance (i think rescue would be too strong a term) skills sharp.

BigDuffman

Well the only time I can envisage getting into difficulties is when it is something happens that you cannot fix your self.

Eg. OOA or if something causes a panic eg. losing a mask / fin at depth. Then you would be relying on buddy to make a comfortable ascent anyway?

Any "rescue" type situations, I've been involved in (limited amount thank neptune) would have been compounded by the diver going it alone.

But valid point on having the mindset switched to self reliance and skills sharp.

truebluesac

hi big duff man . you mentioned the loss of a mask as a reason for dieing or panic . and relying on your buddy to save or assist you . if you carry a spare mask you have your problem sorted . easy to fit a mask in your bcd pocket or dry suit leg pocket .

as for a fin loss . if you are in controle of your bouyancy just a lil bit more air in your jacket will get you to the surface safely by using a boyant asscent .

i dont mean any disrespect by my comments .

i am a tech diver and when i started on my dark path i was told if you need something you bring 2 on a dive . if you need 2 bring 3 etc . this is called redundancy . so problems can be minimised and resolved in safe manners .

again i hope my comments help

Peace

truebluesac wrote: »

i am a tech diver and when i started on my dark path i was told if you need something you bring 2 on a dive . if you need 2 bring 3 etc . this is called redundancy . so problems can be minimised and resolved in safe manners .

I (was) also a tech diver and implemented that motto.

BigDuffman

truebluesac wrote: »

i dont mean any disrespect by my comments .

i am a tech diver and when i started on my dark path i was told if you need something you bring 2 on a dive . if you need 2 bring 3 etc . this is called redundancy . so problems can be minimised and resolved in safe manners .

None taken, I am posting as a rec diver (the article also seems to be targeted at rec divers).

PADI and most other diving orgs. teach and preach about the buddy system. I wouldn't for a second feel comfortable going out with a buddy who was relying on me to do everything for him. Obviously correcting any issues myself and staying in control would be the initial reaction and should be every trained divers reaction.

But I was refering to the below comment

seadeuce wrote: »

If I dive with another buddy classification, I dive alone, I rescue alone, I survive alone. Safer than wasting valuable time getting to that unknown package of a buddy who may very well give me two fingers when asked for a donation of air.

Whilst I totally agree with the self reliance and instabuddies point, the Dive alone survive alone mentality does not sit well with me!

Catmologen

I think theres a lot of very valid points been made on this thread. I am currently moving into tec diving myself after a number of years as a rec diver. From my experience the importance of a responsible buddy is of massive benefit to both divers in rec or tec diving.

However, from my experience if you are not a member of a club or have a friend who is into diving then this is not always possible.

The concept of redundancy changed my outlook on all diving. I would not go on any dive (rec or tec) without backups for my mask,reel,smb, computer and on any deep (30m+) dives i would always have a redundant air source.

Also its important to note that tec divers do look our for their buddies,anyone who has done tec courses will tell you about the air sharing drils, rescue drils, Notox drils etc, its just that the onus is on divers to be responsible for themselves first before turning to a buddy for help!

BigDuffman

Catmologen wrote: »

I think theres a lot of very valid points been made on this thread. I am currently moving into tec diving myself after a number of years as a rec diver. From my experience the importance of a responsible buddy is of massive benefit to both divers in rec or tec diving.

However, from my experience if you are not a member of a club or have a friend who is into diving then this is not always possible.

The concept of redundancy changed my outlook on all diving. I would not go on any dive (rec or tec) without backups for my mask,reel,smb, computer and on any deep (30m+) dives i would always have a redundant air source.

Also its important to note that tec divers do look our for their buddies,anyone who has done tec courses will tell you about the air sharing drils, rescue drils, Notox drils etc, its just that the onus is on divers to be responsible for themselves first before turning to a buddy for help!

+1

My regular buddy of a few years is moving away to warmer climes which means will have to resort to turning up to a dive with a group and taking a chance. I'm in a small club which is grand, but still can add an element of the unkown to planning a dive.

Also it's nice to see the redundancy practices from Tec trickling into rec diving! Even noticing ponys popping up for shallow diving.

seadeuce

My last post was not intended as a quote from a diving bible, rather a sample of a developed attitude to being in the hostile environment borne out of many dives with good and not-so-good buddies.

One size never fits all.

However, I would caution those who are mistakenly led to believe that redundancy is the solution to problems that may arise underwater.

Training means understanding the theory, practising the drills, and having a response to a situation that is based on practical experience coupled with reasoning and logic.

"Gear for Fear" is a term I have often used to describe the diver who looks like a Christmas Tree with all his danglies. I say "the diver" as I do not apply the term generally - please note!
These divers are relying on equipment to supplement their questionable diving skills. If the proverbial hits the fan, without a clear line of thought - based on practical skills and understanding - then the diver will only add to his problem by task loading with a less-efficient response to overcome the situation he faces.

You mention the Loss of a Mask:

Strap broken - no prob. Pressure will keep it in place unless you breathe out through your nose.
Loss as in gone, you can read your gauge/compass/computer if you hold it up to the bridge of your nose, right between your eyes. Ascend while doing so.
You can cup one hand over an eye and trap exhaust bubbles to create that airspace.
Train in the pool for such an eventuality by using a snorkel with no mask.

Having a spare will obviously allow you to avoid using the above. But then you won't enjoy a dive without that extra bit of gear at hand, which may happen abroad.
My point is that it is better credo to be able to manage without the mask, in this case, then by all means carry a spare. Otherwise it is Gear for Fear (of something going wrong - with no back-up plan).

Other examples can be given for many aspects of our sport. Not going into them here, have said enough already.

Bottom line - never be totally dependent on spares for survival. A back-up plan that is not equipment-dependent will allow you to make the correct choice/response when things go awry.

I am talking about rec. diving here, not cave/tech etc.

It's a lovely sport, but can be deadly in the wrong hands.

I need a 50m narco fix!


Seadeuce

BigDuffman

I'm not attempting to get into a pissing competition here...fair play you're an experienced tec diver (some great points made on your post eg. airspace that I've never heard of)...but I'm not a tec diver, most divers also tend to be of the rec variety. I was merely making a point that dive alone, survive alone is not in my (humble) opinion a great attitude for rec divers...but I agree that self reliance should be emphasized.

Peace

I don't really see a need to get wound up here lads. All opinions welcome.

BigDuffman

Last post not intended to sound aggressive as it appears.

seadeuce

BigDuffman wrote: »

I'm not attempting to get into a pissing competition here...fair play you're an experienced tec diver (some great points made on your post eg. airspace that I've never heard of)...but I'm not a tec diver, most divers also tend to be of the rec variety. I was merely making a point that dive alone, survive alone is not in my (humble) opinion a great attitude for rec divers...but I agree that self reliance should be emphasized.

Hello BD - no pissing comp here, just an exchange of views. Sometimes it's mighty hard to get across your line of thinking through the limits of a forum post.

I'm NOT an experienced tech diver! I'm an experienced REC diver!!

Have done Extended Range diving many times, no probs with switching etc.
But I don't go heavily into tech/deco/accelerated deco etc.
I have dived with elements of these many times, but prefer to enjoy diving as a minimalist, ie diving a single rather than a twin.

My attitude is one of self-sufficiency, and I am NOT promoting solo diving here. Just the mindset of a solo diver with a buddy.
IOW I prefer to have the OPTION of looking after myself if some gear fails. Whether I chose that option or not will be down to the circumstances/profile of the dive.

I consider myself an okay buddy to anyone underwater, and would prefer if my buddy and I both survive every dive.

Be capable of managing all the personal variables of gear/gas management/profile compensation and enjoyment. One then finds that a strange buddy will not adversely affect your diving pleasure from a personal safety point of view.

This should increase the enjoyment derived by increasing one's proficiency in the water.
It should also increase one's respect for that water; which needs but one chance to claim you.

Hydrotherapy - that great feeling of being on top of the world while at the bottom of the sea.


I definitely need that fix!


Seadeuce