bed time... necessary??

battleaxe88

I dont think anyone here who has a bedtime set for their kids was put it place for the sole purpose of time alone with OH. I put a bedtime in place because I just always thought a bedtime was better than no bedtime, but in sayin that I do appreciate the few hours after her bedtime and before mine. I can get housework done and actually relax. I'm lucky enough to have the whole day with my daughter and her dad gets home shortly after 5 so he gets a few hours with her. She gets tired from about half 6 so I read her a book then bed for 7. She's usually asleep before half. If i'm honest it'd probably be handier for me to not have a bedtime right now, we'd have a lot more freedom. We wouldnt leave parties early etc. But a bedtime works for us. Saying that, if I worked full-time like some people here I cant imagine she'd be in bed for seven.

Orion

grindelwald wrote: »

unless you want to discuss how im a bad parent with her endoincrinologist, am i doing the easy parenting by letting her run wild,,,,,

grindelwald: You've made your point - you think people are/can be selfish. LEt it go.
You also don't need to get all defensive when you're pulled up on something you said yourself in error. Try not to get offended so easily and you'll find things a lot easier.

All: This thread is starting to go round in circles. It's in danger of being locked unless there's something new to add.

cynder

Oh i'm not offended! I understand that people may question my choices as i question others choices, this is a discussion board, as far as i am concerned thats what we are having... In no way will i say everyone has to be like me, i recognise not too many are like me and just because sometime is classed as the norm that you have dont have to follow the crowd you can make you own choices regarding parenting.

Just because i dont agree with someone on one thread does not mean i wont agree with them on the next. My kids aren't out stealing, breaking windows, robing cars, or in any way breaking the law. So as afar as im concerned im doing a good job.

wolfpawnat

I think people are forgetting that there are hundreds of terrible ways to raise children, but there are also hundreds of good ways too. What works for grindelwald wouldn't work for me, what works for me wouldn't work for Swanner, etc They are not wrong, just different!

I know I am being a small bit selfish with my son's bedtimes, but that is because he is up at 6.30AM and he and I are both exhausted from hours of playing, walking, learning, cooking, etc. I cannot be a good mother to him when I am worn out, I have a short temper when I am tired and I see it as unfair to him when I am cranky. So I clean the house, cook the dinner and am in bed myself by 11-12 meaning I only really get about an hour or 2 to relax! Also he tends to tell me he is tired. I let him up late before and he kept trying to go to bed!

Whatever works for a family is all that matters

Lola92

To be honest I think that a set bed time is a great thing for kids. I honestly believe that they do best in an environment with structure and consistency. My 11 and a half month old goes to bed between 7.30 and 8. Sometimes a little earlier if she has had a very busy day or didn't nap for long.

I don't arrive home some days until near 7 o'clock and on those days yes I would love to keep her up later to play with me, but to me that is just selfish. I know that she is tired and needs her sleep and that is what is in her best interest. Otherwise she would be cranky and over tired and unable to settle when I would put her down to bed.

I think my main point is that bedtime is not a number picked out of the sky for the parents to relax, but around the time that the child gets tired each day and physically needs sleep. Naturally that will vary as a child gets older and that reflects in later bedtimes for older kids etc.

binxeo

Evil-p wrote: »

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting a child to bed at 5.30 if that is the time they are tired and ready for bed. But I do think there is something wrong with putting a child to bed before they are ready, potentially having crying every night, because the parents need alone time. Parenting is not a 7-7 job. And while i'm sure most people on this thread put there kids to bed because they are tired, I know people who leave there kids bawl in the cot till they sleep because they parents feel they "deserve" alone time.

Sleep trainers have a lot to answer for. They have managed to instill these beliefs regarding "normal" baby sleep and any parents who fall short of this idealised standard feel they are doing something wrong. If sleep involves leaving your child cry then you are doing something wrong imho.

My baby goes to bed when she's tired, she has yet to sleep through a night (11 months old) and I'm not a bit worried about it - she will someday and until then its my job as her mother to be available to comfort her. I work full time outside the home and I manage just fine because I have no expectations that my daughter is falling short of.

I agree with most of what you say except the highlighted. On my first child I rocked him and gave him bottles and did every thing to settle him when he was a baby. I knew he was tired but like you I didn't want to let him cry. I was, like you said there to comfort him.........BUT he never settled and I had such a hard time getting him to sleep and keeping him asleep. Then when he was 11mths old I had to move to my parents for a while. My dad couldn't understand why my son wouldn't settle and stopped me going into him to settle him. He told me to let him settle himself, he was clearly tired and over-wrought and all I was doing by going into him was making him even more over tired. So my dad sat with me outside his room for about 4/5 nights one week, while my son settled himself. Well I was crying as much as he was, but my dad asked me to trust him and I did and he hit the nail on the head. So from then on my son settled himself, for the first while he would kick up a bit and cry, but then within a month he was going to bed with a happy head on him and no tears. On occasion he would cry, if he was over-tired or had a very long day and it did him no harm. Now he goes up and hops into bed and is happy out. It was a hard thing to do but it was really worth it, for him as well as me.

Since I had my 10mth old I have done the same with her from the beginning and she has been sleeping through the night since she was 6 wks and always settles herself, some nights she cries other nights she just babbles and then falls asleep. So with all that said I would have to disagree that " If sleep involves leaving your child cry then you are doing something wrong imho" I think there is nothing wrong with letting your baby cry themselves to sleep. They will settle themselves and it makes toddler years so much more relaxed for mammy, daddy and toddler when the toddler has settled themselves as an infant and continues to do it. Start as you mean to go on and all that!!!

How Strange

Wow crying it out (CIO) is a different kettle of fish and definitely not one I subscribe to.

Moonbeam

There is a huge difference between a baby crying for 2 minutes because you put them to bed then them screaming for ages upset.

battleaxe88

@binxeo
Agree with you totally. That was the exact same as me. When my daughter was about 10 months, she was sleeping through the night no problem, but getting her to sleep was a different story. Like you I rocked, cuddled and did anything I could think of to comfort her to get her relaxed enough to sleep. Nothing worked. My OH suggested we leave her cry for a few mins and see how that worked. I was pretty against it in the beginning. But one night we decided to try it. We put her down, gave her her doody and a kiss and left the room. She was crying, we left it 5 mins, went in gave her back her doody another kiss then left the room. DId this twice in 5 min intervals. She was asleep in 15 mins. Havent looked back since. Best thing we ever did. Within a few days she was no tears going to bed, over a year later its still the same. She goes to bed happy!

binxeo

Moonbeam wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a baby crying for 2 minutes because you put them to bed then them screaming for ages upset.

I totally agree. If babs is crying for more then 10mins I know something is bothering her, or she is just not ready to go to bed. I couldn't leave a child crying for ages, there would def be something wrong if that was the case!

How Strange

Yes there's a world of difference between an overtired moany cry and leaving a baby to cry hysterically until he/she falls asleep. It's very rare that our fella would cry when he's put to bed but I know the difference between his whingy cry which stops after a few minutes and an upset cry because of a pain or whatever. The whole concept of cry it out upsets me.

Das Kitty

How Strange wrote: »

Yes there's a world of difference between an overtired moany cry and leaving a baby to cry hysterically until he/she falls asleep. It's very rare that our fella would cry when he's put to bed but I know the difference between his whingy cry which stops after a few minutes and an upset cry because of a pain or whatever. The whole concept of cry it out upsets me.

That is the concept of crying it out though. To recognise the different cries.

We've had to do it a couple of times. But it involves timing yourself for 2 minutes standing outside the door and then going back in, lying him down and leaving wordlessly. Then step out and start the timer again. It's not about leaving him crying himself to sleep (in our house anyway).

Sparkyd2002

How Strange wrote: »

Yes there's a world of difference between an overtired moany cry and leaving a baby to cry hysterically until he/she falls asleep. It's very rare that our fella would cry when he's put to bed but I know the difference between his whingy cry which stops after a few minutes and an upset cry because of a pain or whatever. The whole concept of cry it out upsets me.

Agree.Small children and babies have only one way of expressing their disappointment and/or disagreement with something.This can lead from time to time to a child who disagrees with you putting them to bed to cry a bit.Its natural and normal and mine have had the odd night like that.If you leave them they drift off and are none the worse for wear the next morning. That said i think all parents know when their child is crying for other reasons i.e. hysterical and distressed due to illness etc. I have never let mine cry it out as someone called it in those circumstances.I like a previous posters comment though. there are many good ways and many bad ways to bring up your child.Just because i like routine and my kids seem to benefit from routine doesnt mean it will work for all! Biggest issue with all these books and advice columns is they assume babies are like these homogenous little clones. their not, they are human beings! To my mind you do not have to be consistent with how others raise their kids. Just be consistent with how you do it! i.e. whatever works best stick with it and dont confuse the poor kiddies by being inconsistent...

binxeo

Sparkyd2002 wrote: »

Agree.Small children and babies have only one way of expressing their disappointment and/or disagreement with something.This can lead from time to time to a child who disagrees with you putting them to bed to cry a bit.Its natural and normal and mine have had the odd night like that.If you leave them they drift off and are none the worse for wear the next morning. That said i think all parents know when their child is crying for other reasons i.e. hysterical and distressed due to illness etc. I have never let mine cry it out as someone called it in those citcumstances.I like a previous posters comment though. there are many good ways and many bad ways to bring up your child.Just because i like routine and my kids seem to benefit from routine doesnt mean it will work for all! Biggest issue with all these books and avice columns is they assume babies are like these homogenous little clones. their not, they are human beings! To my mind you do not have to be consistent with how other sraise their kids. Just be consistent with how you do it! i.e. whatever works best stick with it and dont confuse the poor kiddies by being inconsistent...

I think that is very well said. Each child is different and each parent knows or will figure out what suits their child best. I think it is fine to give advise on what you do but always remembering that like adults each child likes and needs different things. An example I would have is that my son loved to have a soother going to bed and night, but my daughter has spit hers out since she was a few days old and never wanted it. Even within a family every child is different!!:)

Sparkyd2002

binxeo wrote: »

I think that is very well said. Each child is different and each parent knows or will figure out what suits their child best. I think it is fine to give advise on what you do but always remembering that like adults each child likes and needs different things. An example I would have is that my son loved to have a soother going to bed and night, but my daughter has spit hers out since she was a few days old and never wanted it. Even within a family every child is different!!:)

thanks.read your earlier post on rocking and cuddling baby etc. Had to laugh,when i was growing up i had 2 very young siblings(I was 19 when my mum had her last baby - she was only 40 ok :-)) This meant i was used to my mums routine with putting my baby brother to bed, my sister was 5 by then so i was a bit more lenient with her . indeed i often babysat when my parents were out having a meal or whatever! My missus is a nurse and when we had our first she was working certain days or even nights and i obviously had to put my small fella down. In fact i did it most nights. Then i went away on a work trip for a fortnight.came back and small fella had gone from 7.30 - 8pm bedtime to anytime bedtime :-) tooka while to sort that one out! My wife basically couldn't even let the fella whimper without rushing in to pick himm up.poor fella was demented hehe.once he settled back into his routine we were all much more relaxed!

cynder

Just wondering what one calls consistency, to me that sound like bedtime at a set time no ifs or buts. say 8pm not 1 min past (5 past 7 mins past) or 1 min to (or 5 mins to or 8 mins to) 8pm sharp.

Yet bedtimes with gaps of half an hour are inconsistent, or are they consistent? as child is always going to bed between that time every night. Then if thats the case gaps of 1 hours would also be consistent. As its always between that time each and every night.

binxeo

grindelwald wrote: »

Just wondering what one calls consistency, to me that sound like bedtime at a set time no ifs or buts. say 8pm not 1 min past (5 past 7 mins past) or 1 min to (or 5 mins to or 8 mins to) 8pm sharp.

Yet bedtimes with gaps of half an hour are inconsistent, or are they consistent? as child is always going to bed between that time every night. Then if thats the case gaps of 1 hours would also be consistent. As its always between that time each and every night.

For me in this context consistency is doing the same thing every evening. I don't stick to a ridged time for bed, it is between 7pm and 7.30pm. The routine for the two kids is obviously different with the age gap but it is they have their own routines, ie. My little lad, tidies his toys away, brushes his teeth, goes to the loo, gets dressed and gets into bed and then we tell him some nursery rhymes and he goes to sleep. This never changes.It is the same thing every night, but not the exact same time to the min every night. Sticking to the exact time for us wouldn't be practical. And the baby has her own little routine, again the same pattern every time, but not the exact same time. I think once you do what you do every night it is fine.

Some people have a crazy half hour before bed where the kids get the run of the house to burn off that last bit of energy and then get dressed etc then into bed, or some read a story every night and the kid know right it is story time, I know it is bed time now. I think it is very individual but once you stick to what you do then there is no confusion for your child.

ash23

I'm pretty rigid with bedtime. It's 8.30 lights out. Some evenings she goes up at 8 and reads for a half hour. But sleep time is always 8.30 unless it's a weekend and then it's usually 9.30pm.

When she was a baby bedtime was 7pm and remained that way until she was 6 and it was increased to 7.30pm and the 8pm at age 7 and 8.30 aged 8. I don't intend increasing it again for another couple of years.

my daughter wakes at 6.30am every morning. Even if she were to be awake until 4am, she is still awake at 6.30am. Only difference is that she is like a rat the whole day. She had an unexpected late night last week and fell asleep at breaktime in school the next day.
Getting her to bed early means she is awake before I even call her at 7am and she is able to function the next day in school.

As for it being selfish, well maybe I am a bit. I work fulltime, I'm a single parent. I spend every weekend, evening and holiday with my daughter. I am the only parent she has and I work my ass off to make sure she is provided for and raised well. I go to bed at 10pm so I don't think having a couple of hours to myself at the end of the day is too much to demand for myself. Being a parent shouldn't mean we're totally selfless and always put the child ahead of ourselves. Sometimes they just have to suck it up because we, as adults, want to do something.

nesf

ash23 wrote: »

Being a parent shouldn't mean we're totally selfless and always put the child ahead of ourselves. Sometimes they just have to suck it up because we, as adults, want to do something.

Exactly. This whole modern thing of the selfless parent is just a recipe for misery.

cynder

binxeo wrote: »

I think it is very individual but once you stick to what you do then there is no confusion for your child.

I totally agree with you there, however i've had a sick child over the last couple of days and his been rotten sick, that sick he could not sleep my duty being his parent is not to sick him to bed at his bedtime but to stay awake with him till the early hours of the morning, every time he needed calpol or voltatol or a wet towel on his head or just needed a cuddle. i was there beside him, putting his needs before my own, even as he slept for the 2 hours i was still beside him comforting him each time he yelped in pain. His bedtime routine (even though its not exact but still consistent) went out the window.

I feel that his needs were more important than my own and only slept for 2 hours over a 36 hour period and only slept a total of 6 hours over a 60 hour period because he was so sick.

His bedtime routine was non existent over that period of time, however his bedtime is back to normal.

I think sometimes you do have to make exceptions at bedtime especially when they are sick.

cynder

nesf wrote: »

Exactly. This whole modern thing of the selfless parent is just a recipe for misery.

For whom?

Will the child end up a delinquent?

Will the parents split up?

Who knows whats going to happen, unfortunately we cant see into the future.

I know we as a family are happy, none of us are law breakers, who knows what lies down the road and what cards we are going to be dealt, same goes for any family.

que sera sera.

Orion

grindelwald wrote: »

I think sometimes you do have to make exceptions at bedtime especially when they are sick.

Has anyone implied otherwise? Of course when a child is sick you devote extra time to tending to him/her. To even imply otherwise is ludicrous.

grindelwald wrote: »

For whom?

Will the child end up a delinquent?

Will the parents split up?

Who knows whats going to happen, unfortunately we cant see into the future.

I know we as a family are happy, none of us are law breakers, who knows what lies down the road and what cards we are going to be dealt, same goes for any family.

que sera sera.

Enforcing a set bedtime is going to end up in delinquency, criminality and broken homes now? Enough is enough. This is a final warning about this type of posting. If you want to take things to ridiculous extremes do it elsewhere. It will no longer be tolerated in Parenting.

cynder

Orion wrote: »

Has anyone implied otherwise? Of course when a child is sick you devote extra time to tending to him/her. To even imply otherwise is ludicrous.



Enforcing a set bedtime is going to end up in delinquency, criminality and broken homes now? Enough is enough. This is a final warning about this type of posting. If you want to take things to ridiculous extremes do it elsewhere. It will no longer be tolerated in Parenting.

Also on the top post there was issues over consistancy and a child getting confused if you wernt consistant, there are times when things cant be consistant. Thats the point.

Sorry is nesf:


Can you explain to me why its a recipe for misery? Orion, nesf made a statement I just cant see why there would be misery?

Orion

I didn't say it - nesf did. But I can answer as a parent. There has to be boundaries. Parents need their own space as well. We sacrifice things for the sake of our children with no complaint. But at the end of the day we need some time to relax, put our feet up, watch Dexter and have a kid-free space. That is completely selfish but I don't see this selfishness as a bad thing. You cannot devote every waking minute to someone else - you have to have some space for yourself too. And for most parents that space is at the end of the day when they go to bed. You don't agree - that's fine. But your constant attacking of parents who do want some me-time is just plain wrong.

cynder

Orion wrote: »

I didn't say it - nesf did. But I can answer as a parent. There has to be boundaries. Parents need their own space as well. We sacrifice things for the sake of our children with no complaint. But at the end of the day we need some time to relax, put our feet up, watch Dexter and have a kid-free space. That is completely selfish but I don't see this selfishness as a bad thing. You cannot devote every waking minute to someone else - you have to have some space for yourself too. And for most parents that space is at the end of the day when they go to bed. You don't agree - that's fine. But your constant attacking of parents who do want some me-time is just plain wrong.

NO ive said in this thread that i agree parents need their own time, i dont think any parents is 100% selfless, of course you have to do things for yourself and your partner, i have said that.

The only bit where i said i dont agree is when a child is specifically sent to bed early so that the parents can have their own time. But each to their own...

I cannot in no way dictate when a persons child goes to bed as they cannot dictate to me when my child should go to bed.

It works for one it may not work for another each family block is different, each child is different.

Morag

Teenagers need nearly as much sleep as toddlers due to the massive growth spurt they go through from 12 to 16 years of age.

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

Bed time routines are important as they help kids to wind down and get ready to sleep.
Hell they are important for adults as well.

cynder

Sharrow wrote: »

Teenagers need nearly as much sleep as toddlers due to the massive growth spurt they go through from 12 to 16 years of age.

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/article/sleep-topics/teens-and-sleep

Bed time routines are important as they help kids to wind down and get ready to sleep.
Hell they are important for adults as well.

I see from that it says 8 and 1/2 hours is enough for some teenagers. As i recall 8 hours sleep is average for a adult, they are not far off.

up for anything

Teen Sleep - Why is your teen so tired?

Teens Primed for Sleep?

From Zzzz's to A's - Adolescent Sleep


Some interesting articles on the subject of teenage sleep patterns versus needs and of the circadian timing system (daily biological clock) which changes at the onset of puberty.

ETA: They all seem to agree that teenagers need 9.5-10 hours of sleep.

nesf

I needed far less than that as a teenager. There are problems with this but not a whole lot you can do about it if you have difficulty falling asleep and wake early.

At the moment on a long stretch of 4-5 hours sleep a night. Seem to be doing ok so long as I can get more than 3 hours in a night. Have sedatives I can take if I need a longer sleep.

cynder

up for anything wrote: »

Teen Sleep - Why is your teen so tired?

Teens Primed for Sleep?

From Zzzz's to A's - Adolescent Sleep


Some interesting articles on the subject of teenage sleep patterns versus needs and of the circadian timing system (daily biological clock) which changes at the onset of puberty.

ETA: They all seem to agree that teenagers need 9.5-10 hours of sleep.

Teen sleep: Why is your teen so tired?

Teen sleep cycles might seem to come from another world. Understand why teen sleep is a challenge — and what you can do to promote better teen sleep.

By Mayo Clinic staff
Teens are notorious for staying up late and being hard to awaken in the morning. If your teen is no exception, it's not necessarily because he or she is pushing the limits or fighting the rules. This behavior pattern actually has a physical cause — and can be modified to improve your teen's sleep schedule.
A teen's internal clock

Everyone has an internal clock that influences body temperature, sleep cycles, appetite and hormonal changes. The biological and psychological processes that follow the cycle of this 24-hour internal clock are called circadian rhythms. Before adolescence, these circadian rhythms direct most children to naturally fall asleep around 8 or 9 p.m. But puberty changes a teen's internal clock, delaying the time he or she starts feeling sleepy — often until 11 p.m. or later. Staying up late to study or socialize can disrupt a teen's internal clock even more.
Too little sleep

Most teens need about nine hours of sleep a night — and sometimes more — to maintain optimal daytime alertness. But few teens actually get that much sleep regularly, thanks to factors such as part-time jobs, early-morning classes, homework, extracurricular activities, social demands, and use of computers and other electronic gadgets. More than 90 percent of teens in a recent study published in the Journal of School Health reported sleeping less than the recommended nine hours a night. In the same study, 10 percent of teens reported sleeping less than six hours a night.
Although this might seem like no big deal, sleep deprivation can have serious consequences. Tired teens can find it difficult to concentrate and learn, or even stay awake in class. Too little sleep also might contribute to mood swings and behavioral problems. Another major concern is drowsy driving, which can lead to serious — even deadly — accidents.

Your first article says 9 hours sleep (about) so give or take what 1/2 and hour that would make from 8 1/2 to 9 1/2. Not 10 hours


Second article also says 9 hours, says that they would go to bed around 1am and wake at 10 am (9 hours) not 10!


thrid article :Learning Good Sleep Habits

Putting good sleep habits into practice is particularly difficult for teenagers. Not only do their own circadian rhythms fight against going to sleep early, but many teens don't have any control over the time they wake up. Teens can do something to try to bring their internal body clock forward. Sleep experts say dimming the lights at night and getting lots of daylight in the morning can help. Having a routine bedtime of 10 p.m., sleeping in a cool environment and turning off music, the Internet, and televisions would help to reset the body clock. And though sleeping in is a good thing, trying to get up after only an extra hour or two is a lot better than "binge-sleeping" on the weekends. If a student is used to getting up at 6:30 a.m., they shouldn't sleep until noon on the weekend. That simply confuses their bodies. And lots of sports helps, too -- better earlier in the day than late.

Sleep research not only points out the importance of sleep to teenagers, but explodes some of the myths around sleep: principally the idea that people need less and less sleep as they grow up. There are many factors in the lives of adolescents that elude their control. Sleep is one area where the lessons are clear and the benefits of following them are quickly apparent.


Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/from/sleep.html#ixzz1fTyTc7i1

8 and 1/2 hours 10 pm to 6.30. dont know where your coming out with 9 1/2 to 10 hours!