What would have happened if the Nazi's had won?

Zebra3

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Poland was a sovereign member of the international community, violated without provocation by a cruel aggressor. That was why France and Britain flew to her aid in her hour of need.

That's hilarious.

What help did France and Britain give?

France and Britain declared war on Germany because they were concerned about Germany becoming too powerful, not because of any concern for the Poles.

After all, what happened to Poland at the end of the war?

HugoBradyBrown

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's hilarious.

What help did France and Britain give?

France and Britain declared war on Germany because they were concerned about Germany becoming too powerful, not because of any concern for the Poles.

After all, what happened to Poland at the end of the war?

Yes, the fact is that the form of socialism that was in force in Poland after the war was regrettable, and I do not support it. However, Britain and France were impotent after the war, since the zones of influence had been agreed in the summits between the powers.

Poland, nevertheless, retained her formal sovereignty, which Germany did not, and, once circumstances changed in the 1980's, Polonia Restituta was the happy result.

Capt'n Midnight

If Britain and France hadn't supported Poland then Poland might have done the unthinkable and let the Russians cross their boarders. Potentially preventing or at least delaying WWII until the UK/France and Russia had armed up.


Had the Germans won then we'd be like Eastern Europe was under the Russians. Nominally independent as long as you follow the party line.


But what would have changed to allow the Germans to have won ?

HugoBradyBrown

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If Britain and France hadn't supported Poland then Poland might have done the unthinkable and let the Russians cross their boarders. Potentially preventing or at least delaying WWII until the UK/France and Russia had armed up.


Had the Germans won then we'd be like Eastern Europe was under the Russians. Nominally independent as long as you follow the party line.


But what would have changed to allow the Germans to have won ?

Since we are already toeing the line from Frankfurt, I wonder how different life is now, in any case. :rolleyes:

psychward

''Allo Allo'' would not exist.

Some of the funniest parts of Fawlty Towers would not exist either. And some of the characters too. Such as the retired Colonel who would probably have retired to the ''saltmines'''of German occupied Siberia.

The classic scene from Father Ted where a mark on the window looks like a Hitler moustache would not exist but then again perhaps the church wouldnt' have had such power and thrown it away so would not have been ridiculed as much as it is.

vampire of kilmainham

insteed of being called boards it would be called the the third reich.fatherland and we would be all nazis wearing swastikas and s/s insiginis i would be an obergrupean furher in the gistapo:D:D HEIL HITLER:(:(:(

vampire of kilmainham

Fishooks12 wrote: »

We already do infairness

Irish Rail may be very over-priced but as someone who uses them frequently I can vouch that they're rarely if ever late

thats true and they have a lovley new fleet of trains too state of the art unlike those old diesel's and anciant carriges they had for years

vampire of kilmainham

Wattle wrote: »

Unt ze frauleins mit za big boobies.

unt fat about the fallenn madonna fit se big boobies

Zebra3

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Yes, the fact is that the form of socialism that was in force in Poland after the war was regrettable, and I do not support it. However, Britain and France were impotent after the war, since the zones of influence had been agreed in the summits between the powers.

Yes, because Britain sold out Poland in those agreements.

Again, what help did Britain and France give Poland when she was attacked?

vampire of kilmainham

dublin castle would be s/s HQ and aras an uactarain would be a base for the nazi leadership

psychward

This thread would be titled : What would have happened if the Allies had won?

And there would be a sticky titled: I love the Fuhrer and the Fatherland more today than I loved them yesterday because ...
And a very particular clique would be posting ''approved views'' merrily away on it protected by quantum mechanical rules from having to face the paradox of meeting their current selves in this reality and imploding.

vampire of kilmainham

Zebra3 wrote: »

Good guys? What planet are you on?

Have you any ideas about the crimes committed by the USSR on its own people?

The genocide commited in the US on the native population? US crimes in Vietnam?

And won't even mention those carried out by the French and British empires. :rolleyes:



There'd be nothing on the History Channel.

all that is true and shows the hyppocricey of these countrye's when they try to make themselves look perfect

TheUsual

Jet-packs.

No more cars, just jet-packs for everyone.

Oh, and really bad food.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw5KaEshU3g

Cú Giobach

LordSutch wrote: »

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

(Incidentally, why do people talk about the Nazis fighting the war? In general terms we don't use the governing party names when referring to the Japanese, the Soviet Union, the Italians, the Romanians and so forth. The belligerent enemy in 1939-45 were the Germans, not the Nazis.)

I beg to disagree, for it was the Nazi's who drove the war machine 39'-45', and the Nazi ideology which strove for total world domination! Many a good German was conscripted into the Nazi war effort, with no get out clause. You can blame the Nazi's (and specifically Adolf Hitler) for World War II, but do not tar the good German people with the same brush :mad:

This is an interesting point.
Lets take a regular soldier of the Wermacht, even if he wasn't a member of the Nazi party (ie: A Nazi), he was fighting in support of that party, so you aren't fighting "a Nazi" but you are fighting "the Nazis".
And irrespective whether or not Germans were Nazis they were still "the enemies" of the Allies. Therefore both posts above are true.

It is annoying to hear members of the Wermacht being referred to by the all encompassing term, Nazis.

Snickers Man

RachaelVO wrote: »

I read that somewhere years ago, he was going to turn Ireland into a vegetable plot!

I read somewhere that he and De Valera were the only two people apart from Einstein who could understand the Theory of Relativity. :rolleyes:

HugoBradyBrown

Snickers Man wrote: »

I read somewhere that he and De Valera were the only two people apart from Einstein who could understand the Theory of Relativity. :rolleyes:

The Irish Times used to say that the way the old Irish Press expressed it in the 1930's was that originally only four people understood the Theory of Relativity, including former UCD pass-degree mathematics tutor Eamonn de Valera and Albert Einstein himself, but that some people thought that number who understood it was no more than two and that in some parts of the country, there was considerable doubt about Einstein.

Capt'n Midnight

Zebra3 wrote: »

Again, what help did Britain and France give Poland when she was attacked?

There were strongly worded letters written to The Times.

Capt'n Midnight

psychward wrote: »

''Allo Allo'' would not exist.

So it wouldn't all be bad then.
*notes* that Dads Army wouldn't have been inflicted up on us either.

And England wouldn't have won the World Cup back in 1966



However, the Austrians would probably miss "Dinner for One"

Murphdog94

Depending on your age, most of us probably wouldn't exist...

HugoBradyBrown

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

So it wouldn't all be bad then.
*notes* that Dads Army wouldn't have been inflicted up on us either.

And England wouldn't have won the World Cup back in 1966



However, the Austrians would probably miss "Dinner for One"

Aaaah, Austria, Felix Austria, 'the first victim of fascism', for those who choose to believe that kind of nonsense! Finis Austriae, as Musil had it.

Dutchy

Hitler wasn't all bad. After all ... he did kill Hitler.

Elmer Blooker

tiger55 wrote: »

Russia was massing for an attack on Germany,

Where did you get that from?
The Germans advanced hundreds of miles into Russia in the first days of the war which means the Russians were obviously totally unprepared for war.

HugoBradyBrown

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Where did you get that from?
The Germans advanced hundreds of miles into Russia in the first days of the war which means the Russians were obviously totally unprepared for war.

There could be something in that, actually, as the Soviet Union has dispensed with the services of the bulk of its military High Command in the immediately preceding years. Was Stalin a pacifist in disguise?

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'm still waiting for my Nazi overlords to arrive

gbee

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The Germans advanced hundreds of miles into Russia in the first days of the war which means the Russians were obviously totally unprepared for war.

History channel the other night. It was part Russian tactics to lure an enemy deep into the country and then encircle and annihilate them.

They were very well prepared for the war they had been expecting ~ but two things made a massive difference, Stalin had recently purged his officer core leaving his army somewhat leaderless and the German forces were more mobile, faster, more resilient and [initially] better supplied so gained much more territory, much faster than the Russian plan allowed for.

gbee

Orlando Deafening Men wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my Nazi overlords to arrive

Wasn't he inaugurated during the week?

Elmer Blooker

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

There could be something in that, actually, as the Soviet Union has dispensed with the services of the bulk of its military High Command in the immediately preceding years. Was Stalin a pacifist in disguise?

That's one way of putting it - Stalin had almost all the high ranking Generals, Officers etc in the Red Army "dispensed" in the late 1930s by firing squad or disappearing into the Gulags.

Capt'n Midnight

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Aaaah, Austria, Felix Austria, 'the first victim of fascism', for those who choose to believe that kind of nonsense!

The Spanish might disagree too.
As would all those under dictatorships in Eastern Europe

Had the Germans won
Architecture would be horrible.

They also had plans for huge trains

Elmer Blooker

gbee wrote: »

History channel the other night. It was part Russian tactics to lure an enemy deep into the country and then encircle and annihilate them.

They were very well prepared for the war they had been expecting ~ but two things made a massive difference, Stalin had recently purged his officer core leaving his army somewhat leaderless and the German forces were more mobile, faster, more resilient and [initially] better supplied so gained much more territory, much faster than the Russian plan allowed for.

If they were well prepared to take on the Germans why were the Russians routed by tiny Finland in the "Winter War" of 1939-40.
Finland were eventually overwhelmed by Russian manpower in the end but Hitler certainly saw the Russian army for what it was - a leaderless rabble!

HugoBradyBrown

gbee wrote: »

Wasn't he inaugurated during the week?

The quoted post should be deleted.

44leto

Orlando Deafening Men wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my Nazi overlords to arrive

I seen some of them on the LUAS and doing a crack up job. If only our Garda had similar racial screening so they to could tackle the Dublin scumbags in a similar way.

Capt'n Midnight

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

If they were well prepared to take on the Germans why were the Russians routed by tiny Finland in the "Winter War" of 1939-40.
Finland were eventually overwhelmed by Russian manpower in the end but Hitler certainly saw the Russian army for what it was - a leaderless rabble!

Thing is the Russians figured out the same thing and started making changes, had they another year (ie. delayed till after winter) to prepare Operation Barbarossa might have gone very differently.

Mike 1972

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wouldn't say that the Poles were 100% innocent, because they did give Hitler a bit of an excuse, in that they didn't treat the ethnic Germans very well.

As opposed to the impeccable treatment given to National minorities (including Poles) on German territory in the 1933-39 period?
Reports of prewar mistreatment of Germans on Polish territory were doubtless heavily fabricated/exaggerated by the Nazi's their postwar mistreatment is more verifiable and was far worse but the Soviets were as much to blame for this as their puppet Polish administration.

If one wants to take a swipe at the prewar Polish government better targets would be their concluding a non-aggression pact of their own with Germany (1935) or their not being above making territory grabs of their own (bits of Czechoslovakia that the Germans weren’t interested in).

HugoBradyBrown

Mike 1972 wrote: »

As opposed to the impeccable treatment given to National minorities (including Poles) on German territory in the 1933-39 period?
Reports of prewar mistreatment of Germans on Polish territory were doubtless heavily fabricated/exaggerated by the Nazi's their postwar mistreatment is more verifiable and was far worse but the Soviets were as much to blame for this as their puppet Polish administration.

If one wants to take a swipe at the prewar Polish government better targets would be their concluding a non-aggression pact of their own with Germany (1935) or their not being above making territory grabs of their own (bits of Czechoslovakia that the Germans weren’t interested in).

The Cieszyn Silesia and Zaolzie issues were complex, dating back to Maria Theresia's time, and the propriety of awarding any of Silesia to Czechoslovakia in the Saint-Germain-en-Laye treaty are challengeable, since the Silesian ethnolinguistic population should not have been divided by rigid international boundaries. An autonomous Silesia, if not sovereign, would have met the needs of this ethnos, while avoiding stresses and conflicts between two otherwise fraternal and friendly North Slavic polities.

psychward

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

psychward wrote: »

''Allo Allo'' would not exist.

So it wouldn't all be bad then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8EEQrZBKoc

K-9

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Spanish might disagree too.
As would all those under dictatorships in Eastern Europe

Had the Germans won
Architecture would be horrible.

They also had plans for huge trains

Italy as well.

Whatever about Germany it seems the trains running on time was a propaganda stunt for Mussolini anyway:

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

ejmaztec

Mike 1972 wrote: »

As opposed to the impeccable treatment given to National minorities (including Poles) on German territory in the 1933-39 period?
Reports of prewar mistreatment of Germans on Polish territory were doubtless heavily fabricated/exaggerated by the Nazi's their postwar mistreatment is more verifiable and was far worse but the Soviets were as much to blame for this as their puppet Polish administration.

If one wants to take a swipe at the prewar Polish government better targets would be their concluding a non-aggression pact of their own with Germany (1935) or their not being above making territory grabs of their own (bits of Czechoslovakia that the Germans weren’t interested in).

The German people probably didn't care much for the plight of ethnic minorities in Germany, especially the Poles whose native country had been given a huge chunk of what had been pre-WW1 German territory. For the sake of Nazi propaganda, their plight would have been ignored.

Nationalism and human nature being what it is, I've no doubt that the ethnic Germans living in what had become part of Poland, were teated as 2nd class Polish citizens. The same thing happened in Czechoslovakia, particularly along the German and Austrian border areas. Germanic people had migrated there over the centuries, and had been quite prominent until the Austro-Hungarian empire collapsed after WW1.

After WW2, any future problems with the Germanic residents in these areas was eliminated, because they were expelled en-masse, and shunted into West Germany. In addition, many ethnic Hungarians were kicked out as well.

HugoBradyBrown

ejmaztec wrote: »

The German people probably didn't care much for the plight of ethnic minorities in Germany, especially the Poles whose native country had been given a huge chunk of what had been pre-WW1 German territory. For the sake of Nazi propaganda, their plight would have been ignored.

Nationalism and human nature being what it is, I've no doubt that the ethnic Germans living in what had become part of Poland, were teated as 2nd class Polish citizens. The same thing happened in Czechoslovakia, particularly along the German and Austrian border areas. Germanic people had migrated there over the centuries, and had been quite prominent until the Austro-Hungarian empire collapsed after WW1.

After WW2, any future problems with the Germanic residents in these areas was eliminated, because they were expelled en-masse, and shunted into West Germany. In addition, many ethnic Hungarians were kicked out as well.

As it happens, an exception was made for the Germans of Polish Silesia, who were retained in Poland, since the local economy, particularly in the mining and extraction branches of industry, would have collapsed if they too have decided to leave. They were reclassified in Polish political terminology as "Poles unaware of their Polishness", to make as accurate a translation as is possible. I can supply literature references on this point, if required.

ejmaztec

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

As it happens, an exception was made for the Germans of Polish Silesia, who were retained in Poland, since the local economy, particularly in the mining and extraction branches of industry, would have collapsed if they too have decided to leave. They were reclassified in Polish political terminology as "Poles unaware of their Polishness", to make as accurate a translation as is possible. I can supply literature references on this point, if required.

I know that there were exceptions, with a few ethnic-German communists allowed to remain as an example of another protected species.

Mike 1972

ejmaztec wrote: »

I know that there were exceptions, with a few ethnic-German communists allowed to remain as an example of another protected species.

Always thought it a bit odd that during the German-Soviet pact Stalin didnt exery more pressure for the release of communist prisoners in Germany and the occupied territories even if it meant them having been deported/given asylum in Russia.

Then again the fate of many German communists who did obtain (what they thought was) sanctury in Russia often turned out to have been as bad as would have been the case in Germany itself once they were deemed by their hosts to be insufficently meticulous in their fidelity to the party line.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

They were reclassified in Polish political terminology as "Poles unaware of their Polishness", to make as accurate a translation as is possible. I can supply literature references on this point, if required.

On the other hand there were many Polish citizens who managed to get themselves recategorised as "German" by the occupying authorities (not sure how they fared after the "liberation")

The qualifying criteria were needless to say pretty arbitrary, bizzare and inconsistent with many cases of siblings being put in different categories.

Given the obsession the Nazi's had about categorising people into different groups It kinda debunks the idea that in the event of a Nazi victory "we would all be speaking German now" as a first language at any rate.

Andy-Pandy

one things for sure, the guards would have had kick as uniforms.