RTE and the Licence FEE

Freddie59

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

What's on now?
RTE1: Winning Streak
RTE2: Strong-man arm wrestling contest

Yep. Saturday night 'Prime Time'. And then that tool O'Connor. Case closed.

fat__tony

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Location "Cork"!

Well, going back as far as the 1970's, Cork, for some reason, gave a slight dip in the satisfaction figures with us. I sense it was second city syndrome, this longstanding appetite for what the more vocal down there used to call "de channels", meaning a ravening hunger for foreign television, rather than carefully crafted national output from Montrose. RTE 2 Television placated that for a while. We generally hear little from them now, I notice.

Could you sound any more condescending?

Take your snobbery and 'upper class' attitude elsewhere.

HugoBradyBrown

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

What's on now?
RTE1: Winning Streak
RTE2: Strong-man arm wrestling contest

I did enjoy the informative and unbiased documentary about the Ab Circle Pro though, will it be repeated again in the morning?

Marty's on now? I forgot, with all this defensive work. I'm off!

UsernameInUse

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the crème de la crème.

You've completely lost touch with all reality.

When I read shite like this, I immediately say to myself "F-ck this country and everyone living in it" before I realise that this simple minded crap is not representative of the whole country.

mikom

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Marty's on now? I forgot, with all this defensive work. I'm off!

Don't forget your tail.

rubadub

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I will check the figures on Monday, but it cannot on a commonsense basis be 99% who are liable for the TV tax, taking into account the population spread across age-groups, and the number of pensioners living in households with younger family members.

Yes, I forgot about the "free licences". My point is 99% of households have a TV, yet they are still acting as though its a luxury item which few homes possess. Its a ridiculous situation, imagine I could just decide not to pay my income tax and hide behind the curtain when the taxman came around to my house once every few years.

You bring up another ridiculous point too, if a pensioner is in a house with plenty of wealthy working people they pay no licence fee, it's farcical.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

It is not practicable to levy the tax on individuals, since an unethical minority could claim not to have a set.

They should not even make it an option to not pay it, 99% have them. Just have it in general taxation, like plenty of other services where they presume most people will be availing of the service e.g. footpaths. The fee doesn't just go on TV related stuff anyway.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Voluntary subscription for a quality national service is a non-runner, quite frankly

Thats pretty much what they have in place at the moment. Except the non payers DO get to use the service.

In a poll a while ago 42.64% members here claimed not to pay the licence.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68087686

I don't see why its a non-runner, you keep going on about how amazingly good it is, and at such a low cost, surely almost everybody would be subscribing to such a good offer.

HugoBradyBrown

rubadub wrote: »

Yes, I forgot about the "free licences". My point is 99% of households have a TV, yet they are still acting as though its a luxury item which few homes possess. Its a ridiculous situation, imagine I could just decide not to pay my income tax and hide behind the curtain when the taxman came around to my house once every few years.

You bring up another ridiculous point too, if a pensioner is in a house with plenty of wealthy working people they pay no licence fee, it's farcical.

They should not even make it an option to not pay it, 99% have them. Just have it in general taxation, like plenty of other services where they presume most people will be availing of the service e.g. footpaths. The fee doesn't just go on TV related stuff anyway.


Thats pretty much what they have in place at the moment. Except the non payers DO get to use the service.

In a poll a while ago 42.64% members here claimed not to pay the licence.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68087686

I don't see why its a non-runner, you keep going on about how amazingly good it is, and at such a low cost, surely almost everybody would be subscribing to such a good offer.

(I return from seeing the Streakers, where the entire national audience was in an uproar of vicarious competitiveness in sympathy with the dashing and good-natured Streakers, and where the feature on Scouting for boys was both humbling and inspiring, to see the voluntary effort of the scoutmasters, as Mart said.)

People will always fail to pay tax. I sense that the cumbersome system may itself have a depressing force on the level of compliance, since people may intend to pay over-the-counter, and fail to do so because of inconvenience. This may be remedied.

As I say, I myself believe that the service should be funded by an index-linked block grant from the Exchequer, out of general taxation. Since some people dislike such funding, we may need to introduce a hypothecated arrangement, where, for example, cinema tickets could be levied at 50 cents, or CD's by 50 cents, or video rentals by 50 cents, or a bottle of wine by 50 cents, or text messages, or music downloads, or a pint of beer by 5 cents, or cigarettes by a Euro, or some such other luxury item could be seen to bear the cost of providing the best radio and television in the country. These and similar ideas about hypothecation are considered every year and, some day, are bound to win acceptance.

Johro

^ ^ ^
Hugo Brady Brown.

HugoBradyBrown

Johro wrote: »

^ ^ ^
Hugo Brady Brown.

Que?

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Que?

Yeah I don't know either...

HugoBradyBrown

Johro wrote: »

Yeah I don't know either...

This is an utterly pointless waste of my valuable time.

Hugo, what is your connection with RTE?

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

This is an utterly pointless waste of my valuable time.

Acknowledged.

Terry

I agree with HugoBradyBrown.
The licence is essential.

When I go to jail for not paying it, I'll need something to pass the time.
Thankfully Mountjoy provides tvs in every cell, and the tv licence helps to pay for the programming I'll be watching.

pconn062

Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)

HugoBradyBrown

Terry wrote: »

I agree with HugoBradyBrown.
The licence is essential.

When I go to jail for not paying it, I'll need something to pass the time.
Thankfully Mountjoy provides tvs in every cell, and the tv licence helps to pay for the programming I'll be watching.

Well, that is perhaps taking things to an extreme!

Did Flann O Brien have a character who used to carry his wireless set out to the married sister's in Skerries when he went on his holidays, and live for two weeks in terror of being caught by the inspector, since the married sister had neither a set of her own nor a licence?

HugoBradyBrown

pconn062 wrote: »

Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)

Again, we are lost in the parochialism of thinking that Britain's models of funding are the norm. Ireland's is a small market, incapable of sustaining good television from the TV tax alone, but equally incapable of funding high quality television from advertising revenue alone. We are, unfortunately, caught in needing both revenue streams, with further income generated from RTE Sales. I appreciate the good intention of the question, and am sorry to have to undermine its naive argument within minutes.

Johro

I have a freeview box. It receives all the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and film channels and a lot more besides, but no Irish TV channels. Not a one.
It feels somewhat idiotic to have to pay a licence fee to RTE, but I do it because I have to. Reluctantly.

pconn062

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Again, we are lost in the parochialism of thinking that Britain's models of funding are the norm. Ireland's is a small market, incapable of sustaining good television from the TV tax alone, but equally incapable of funding high quality television from advertising revenue alone. We are, unfortunately, caught in needing both revenue streams, with further income generated from RTE Sales. I appreciate the good intention of the question, and am sorry to have to undermine its naive argument within minutes.

I appreciate your point, but again its a redundant argument because it is never going to happen.

Johro

pconn062 wrote: »

Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)

Would be great alright. But really, TV is designed to make us buy stuff, like good little consumers. Those pesky entertainment programmes just get in the way of the ads.

HugoBradyBrown

Johro wrote: »

I have a freeview box. It receives all the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and film channels and a lot more besides, but no Irish TV channels. Not a one.
It feels somewhat idiotic to have to pay a licence fee to RTE, but I do it because I have to. Reluctantly.

Paying some attention to British TV output this past week, I see that it is full of memorialism for wars past, and of more active celebration of Britain's contemporary adventurism in other peoples' countries. If we did not have RTE, how could we evade this jingoism? On the BBC it has been extending into the very cookery programmes, with Union Jacks festooning aprons and fridges in shot, and with endless mindless chauvinistic jubilation about British sausages and British rhubarb and British cheese and British asparagus.

By consuming their product undiluted, we can delude ourselves that we are becoming more international or more cosmopolitan, when we are simply adopting another, albeit friendly, country's parochialism. At least RTE serves up our own form of parochialism to us, our own home-grown stars, our own comedy, our own stories.

Hobbes

Havent watched rte in years, yet still forced to pay the license. I'd say do away with it.

HugoBradyBrown

Hobbes wrote: »

Havent watched rte in years, yet still forced to pay the license. I'd say do away with it.

You see, we all view RTE television, at least during an election count, or during a Presidential inauguration, or when 'monster rain' is forecast, or when we have rights to a major sports event. Nobody, not even in the Black Valley in Kerry, ever really 'doesn't watch' RTE, in my experience.

MugMugs

I don't pay it. Don't see why I should. 4 years down so far and only one inspector.

rubadub

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Ireland's is a small market, incapable of sustaining good television from the TV tax alone

We could if we increased the licence fee, some might prefer more ads and a lower fee. Sky movies have no ads but other sky channels do, no doubt they researched what customers wanted. Most of the time I actually like having ads during movies.

HugoBradyBrown

MugMugs wrote: »

I don't pay it. Don't see why I should. 4 years down so far and only one inspector.

Surely even a rudimentary ethical sense, or a Kantian respect for the legitimate law of the land, would make every one of us pay the tax. Yes, we can strive to influence the public debate about the tax, but we are morally obliged to obey the law. Can you imagine if everyone did as you claim to do? (And can your address be identified, so that you might be given some additional moral guidance on this question?)

HugoBradyBrown

rubadub wrote: »

We could if we increased the licence fee, some might prefer more ads and a lower fee. Sky movies have no ads but other sky channels do, no doubt they researched what customers wanted. Most of the time I actually like having ads during movies.

But if the present TV tax is excessive for some, such a move would be profoundly anti-egalitarian and socially divisive. I would also be reluctant to see us taking any example from Mr Murdoch and his associates, given what we have seen of their methods and ethics, particularly in recent times.

Terry

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Well, that is perhaps taking things to an extreme!

Did Flann O Brien have a character who used to carry his wireless set out to the married sister's in Skerries when he went on his holidays, and live for two weeks in terror of being caught by the inspector, since the married sister had neither a set of her own nor a licence?

I've no idea who that is, but it seems that I'll have to go and root out my scanner.

rubadub

MugMugs wrote: »

I don't pay it. Don't see why I should.

You are in effect a thief, plain and simple. The reason there needs to be more ads and higher fees is because of criminals like you stealing from everybody else who pays their share.

Terry

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

But if the present TV tax is excessive for some, such a move would be profoundly anti-egalitarian and socially divisive. I would also be reluctant to see us taking any example from Mr Murdoch and his associates, given what we have seen of their methods and ethics, particularly in recent times.

Murdoch no longer owns BSKYB. Ireland and the U.K. are relatively safe from his anti-Palestine/ anti-middle East/ pro-Israel agenda for the time being.

Oh, yeah. Scanner.

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

You see, we all view RTE television, at least during an election count, or during a Presidential inauguration, or when 'monster rain' is forecast, or when we have rights to a major sports event. Nobody, not even in the Black Valley in Kerry, ever really 'doesn't watch' RTE, in my experience.

I don't. I don't receive it. Due to my home's location (in a river valley surrounded by tall trees) I can't receive a television signal on a TV ariel, I'd have to erect such a tall mast it would be too costly, not to mention complicated and possibly dangerous. I've had a guy who erects ariels round to check for signal, and the best he could get was not good enough, with bad or intermittent sound and 'ghosting'. I have a satellite dish with freeview box, and that provides me with all the English channels. No RTE here. Or TG4. Or TV3, which I wouldn't watch if I did receive it.

MugMugs

If An Post go to all the effort of trawling the net to find me then hats off to them. I actually removed the receiver in my TV. Had a nice big row with the inspector over it but as it stands, my TV cannot receive a tv signal. God bless downloads and boards

Are they scrapping the licence fee in the budget and replacing it with something else?

rubadub

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

But if the present TV tax is excessive for some, such a move would be profoundly anti-egalitarian and socially divisive. I would also be reluctant to see us taking any example from Mr Murdoch and his associates, given what we have seen of their methods and ethics, particularly in recent times.

I am just pointing out it could be done (more for other posters than you), you can't have your cake and eat it too, the money has to come from somewhere. I think its bizarre when people suggest getting rid of ads with no thought. You'd swear they only put ads on to annoy people.

I could have said the BBC rather than sky too, they obviously have it priced high enough to not need ads.

Deleted User

Hugo, Reposted in case you missed it

Deleted User wrote: »

Hugo, what is your connection with RTE?

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Paying some attention to British TV output this past week, I see that it is full of memorialism for wars past, and of more active celebration of Britain's contemporary adventurism in other peoples' countries. If we did not have RTE, how could we evade this jingoism? On the BBC it has been extending into the very cookery programmes, with Union Jacks festooning aprons and fridges in shot, and with endless mindless chauvinistic jubilation about British sausages and British rhubarb and British cheese and British asparagus.

By consuming their product undiluted, we can delude ourselves that we are becoming more international or more cosmopolitan, when we are simply adopting another, albeit friendly, country's parochialism. At least RTE serves up our own form of parochialism to us, our own home-grown stars, our own comedy, our own stories.

I said I receive it. I didn't say it was good. It is all I can receive here. I am, however, not under the illusion that RTE have something better to offer me. Television everywhere is dumbing down, pandering to the lowest common denominator, and selling them washing up liquid.

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Paying some attention to British TV output this past week, I see that it is full of memorialism for wars past, and of more active celebration of Britain's contemporary adventurism in other peoples' countries. If we did not have RTE, how could we evade this jingoism? On the BBC it has been extending into the very cookery programmes, with Union Jacks festooning aprons and fridges in shot, and with endless mindless chauvinistic jubilation about British sausages and British rhubarb and British cheese and British asparagus.

By consuming their product undiluted, we can delude ourselves that we are becoming more international or more cosmopolitan, when we are simply adopting another, albeit friendly, country's parochialism. At least RTE serves up our own form of parochialism to us, our own home-grown stars, our own comedy, our own stories.

That I do agree with.

psychward

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Measures have been taken to alleviate any financial discomfort experienced by people who find a couple of euros per week an excessive exaction. (THe equivalent of a shilling a week in the 1960's, I might point out.)

I dispute the use of the term 'shill'. It is not dishonourable to mount a defense in the face of a torrent of ill-informed and misguided criticism.

You're a shill who denies obvious facts. Everyone with a TV who isnt on disability or a pensioner has to pay this extortion so you can pontificate with your finger up your arse. So stop deliberately lying and denying that the poorest in our society paid for Gerry Ryans coke habit and for politburo style propaganda. Your RTE shower of wasters fell right off even your delusion of the high moral ground when you covered up the arrival of the IMF and forced us all to tune into the BBC to find out what was happening. You're just a propaganda service for whoever will pay you the most.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

The Oireachtas has charged RTE with the public service duties of reflecting the nation back to itself, across space and time. Because some citizens have less elevated tastes does not obviate the obligation on RTE to strive through clever scheduling to dislodge them from their comfortable slough, and to give them the potential to aspire to something higher.

Yeah reflecting Eastenders and Home and Away and the X Factor back onto ourselves... keep digging . Youre a laughing stock already. RTE is 95% uneducational trash and is a shining beacon of immorality and me feinism setting a bad example to our nation. It should be cut out of the exchequer like the cancerous parasite it is. The 5% worthy of keeping comes from Telefis Na Gaeilge which runs it's programming on a miniscule budget compared to RTE.

HugoBradyBrown

psychward wrote: »

You're a shill who denies obvious facts. Everyone with a TV who isnt on disability or a pensioner has to pay this extortion so you can pontificate with your finger up your arse. So stop deliberately lying and denying that the poorest in our society paid for Gerry Ryans coke habit and for politburo style propaganda. Your RTE shower of wasters fell right off even your delusion of the high moral ground when you covered up the arrival of the IMF and forced us all to tune into the BBC to find out what was happening. You're just a propaganda service for whoever will pay you the most.





Yeah reflecting Eastenders and Home and Away and the X Factor back onto ourselves... keep digging . Youre a laughing stock already. RTE is 95% uneducational trash and is a shining beacon of immorality and me feinism setting a bad example to our nation. It should be cut out of the exchequer like the cancerous parasite it is. The 5% worthy of keeping comes from Telefis Na Gaeilge which runs it's programming on a miniscule budget compared to RTE.

Let it never be forgotten that Coronation Street was whipped from under our very noses, once a unabashedly profit-motivated multinational broadcaster put a tentacle into the Irish market. Eastenders is there to give substance and allure to the schedule, to serve people who do not have foreign channels, and to capture and retain viewers for the rest of the evening, so that they will watch our nationally-produced home improvement or health or cookery programmes, our news, our current affairs, The View, and whatever else is on on the same evening, to their benefit, to the station's and to the nation's. Simple, really. Simple, but very, very clever! (If I say so myself!) Scheduling is one of the minor arts.

And RTE News & Current Affairs is emphatically entirely independent of government in editorial terms, and always has been; recall that the late great Kevin O'Kelly of this parish went to gaol in the early 1970's, rather than reveal his sources. That is the touchstone of N&CA, let me assure you.

Terry

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Let it never be forgotten that Coronation Street was whipped from under our very noses, once a unabashedly profit-motivated multinational broadcaster put a tentacle into the Irish market. Eastenders is there to give substance and allure to the schedule, to serve people who do not have foreign channels, and to capture and retain viewers for the rest of the evening, so that they will watch our nationally-produced home improvement or health or cookery programmes, our news, our current affairs, The View, and whatever else is on on the same evening, to their benefit, to the station's and to the nation's. Simple, really. Simple, but very, very clever! (If I say so myself!) Scheduling is one of the minor arts.

And RTE News & Current Affairs is emphatically entirely independent of government in editorial terms, and always has been; recall that the late great Kevin O'Kelly of this parish went to gaol in the early 1970's, rather than reveal his sources. That is the touchstone of N&CA, let me assure you.

I'm going to jail. Yay!

rubadub

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Criticism

a poll was already done about subscription

The associated opinion poll recorded agree:disagree percentages of 54:29 for the statement "Public Broadcasting should be financed by the licence fee."[30] Respondents were asked what level of monthly fee they would be prepared to pay to receive RTÉ if subscription access were hypothetically to replace the licence fee: the annualised mean and median household figures were €180 and €252.60, compared to the then licence fee of €150;[31] those watching more RTÉ programmes were more willing to pay.

It was still just looking at households, it could be a decoder box just like UPC do, you pay a fee and then more for each additional box. You can have lots of TVs if you still want. Years ago it was 1 licence per TV.

TV licence fees make up 50% of the revenue of RTÉ.

So it would have to roughly double to cover it under the current forced subscription model.

I also know people who watch RTE all the time and do not pay a fee, they watch it on the internet, ridiculous.

And just when I thought they were a bit moronic I read this.

In 2002, the rate of licence-fee evasion was estimated at 12%.[6] In the Dublin region in that year, approximately 21% of detected evaders were summonsed for prosecution (6,000 cases);[7] approximately one third of these cases resulted in fines, averaging €174.[8] Only 4% of fined evaders followed up three months later had purchased a licence.

Thats right folks, few are caught and the fine is a mere €14 more than what you are stealing, no wonder the country is over run with these thieving scumbag cunts.

kumate_champ07

Zombrex wrote: »

The thought of only having rubbish stations like TV3 in Ireland sends a shiver down my spine, I'll happily pay a license fee to prevent that happening.

RTE might not be the BBC (you pay the same level of license fee in the UK btw it is just a much bigger population results in much more money for the BBC), but by god things could be a lot lot worse if all TV stations in the country were private.

but how many tv and radio channels does BBC have compared to rte1,rte2 and rte radio?

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

...of providing the best radio and television in the country...

Compared to TV3, yes. Otherwise, no. Not by a long shot.

jimmynokia

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I should have thought that the final collapse of capitalism in recent years would have been enough to silence anyone minded to argue that "the market should decide" anything, and, most particularly, that the market should decide anything in as important an area as the cultural domain. What we are facing now is the development of a gentler, public-service oriented form of life, and RTE is a pre-existing template on which to model other services. The world has changed; we have reached the 'End of History' in a Hegelian sense, but not where Fukuyama though the terminus was. (And even he has a new book out, just to emphasise the point!)

ah here we go again captain i swallowed 5 dictionary's for breakfast and studied 7 more languages for lunch lad.

WUM

jimmynokia

psychward wrote: »

You're a shill who denies obvious facts. Everyone with a TV who isnt on disability or a pensioner has to pay this extortion so you can pontificate with your finger up your arse. So stop deliberately lying and denying that the poorest in our society paid for Gerry Ryans coke habit and for politburo style propaganda. Your RTE shower of wasters fell right off even your delusion of the high moral ground when you covered up the arrival of the IMF and forced us all to tune into the BBC to find out what was happening. You're just a propaganda service for whoever will pay you the most.





Yeah reflecting Eastenders and Home and Away and the X Factor back onto ourselves... keep digging . Youre a laughing stock already. RTE is 95% uneducational trash and is a shining beacon of immorality and me feinism setting a bad example to our nation. It should be cut out of the exchequer like the cancerous parasite it is. The 5% worthy of keeping comes from Telefis Na Gaeilge which runs it's programming on a miniscule budget compared to RTE.

BINGO

parrai

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

and, I would suggest, a red herring intended to muddy the waters.

This is the common denominator of this posters contributions, mixed with a condescending tone. Take the status quo of the post in question, flip it and then, keep raising and moving the posts... Read a lot of him, quite entertaining as it goes and all that! Don't forget the thesaurus, lest we repeat a word or two... Definately After Hours at its best...

We all know RTE is crap... simples... Don't feed the trolls

Wetai

Yes. At the very least it should be an RTE license; i.e. they have to prove you actually WATCH RTE, not just have a TV - an opt-in subscription would be good, but then the auld people probably wouldn't be able to figure out how to get it. You shouldn't have to get letters because those at RTE automatically think "Who doesn't have a TV... Ah shure, why aren't we getting their moneys"
Pay for a service you don't use or (potentially) get a fine.. if this was the US they'd probably be done for being a monopoly.

bradlente

I voted yeah for the removal of it in its current form.Its too much for too little imo.

HugoBradyBrown

parrai wrote: »

This is the common denominator of this posters contributions, mixed with a condescending tone. Take the status quo of the post in question, flip it and then, keep raising and moving the posts... Read a lot of him, quite entertaining as it goes and all that! Don't forget the thesaurus, lest we repeat a word or two... Definately After Hours at its best...

We all know RTE is crap... simples... Don't feed the trolls

I categorically deny ever owning or using a thesaurus!

psychward

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I categorically deny ever owning or using a thesaurus!

Well no-one from RTE actually owns anything morally since they steal their means from the taxpayer whether he uses their services or not. Why not turn your back on Mafia tactics and stop making us an offer we can't refuse Hugo.