Do Christians actually believe in demonic possession?

Kevin Duffy

Batsy wrote: »

I believe in demons and demonic possession.

The movie "The Exorcist" is based on a true story, except that it was a boy who was possessed in real life rather than a girl.

There was a programme on Quest (Freeview channel 38) at 10pm last night called "True Horror with Anthony Head".

It is a TV series hosted by the actor who recently played Uther Pendragon in the BBC series "Merlin."

In the series he travels around the world in search of myths and legends. Last week's episode was about vampires and he went to Transylvania in Romania in search of vampire tales.

Last night's episode was about demonic possession and it was quite disturbing. At the beginning of the programme was some footage of a young Italian girl who was possessed by a demon. She was strapped to a chair whilst priests attempted to perform an exorcism on her. All the time she was screaming loudly and shouting obscenities whilst struggling to break out of the straps. Her face was contorted in a way that made her look pure evil. One of the priests asked her if Satan existed and she (or, rather, the demon) shouted, in Italian: "He exists! He exists!" and then started to scream loudly. It was absolutely disturbing.

If you strap me to a chair, I do something similar. It ends differently though, with a couple of priests getting the fúcking shíte kicked out of them to be precise.

Batsy

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So let me get this straight:
Its true because its from a document dated 1566, a time where the world was flat, the sun orbited the earth, blood letting was a sound medical practice, alchemy was a noble pursuit, epilepsy was a sign of demonic possession, going about in the night humers was bad for ones health and everyone was a religious nutter.
Oh and its presented by Antony head the guy who played Giles in Buffy and beat up demons and vampires for a living whilst under the guise of a college librarian.
Yes?
There are hundreds of 'factual documentaries' on the satellite channels which are nothing of the sort. This is another one.

People did not believe the world was flat. That's a myth.

Batsy

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

If you strap me to a chair, I do something similar. It ends differently though, with a couple of priests getting the fúcking shíte kicked out of them to be precise.

She was strapped to a chair because she was under demonic possession.

If she was just annoyed at being strapped in a chair she wouldn't be shouting that she's a demon (or, rather, the demon wouldn't be shouting that it's a demon) and start shouting that Satan exists.

Ghost Buster

Batsy wrote: »

She was strapped to a chair because she was under demonic possession.

If she was just annoyed at being strapped in a chair she wouldn't be shouting that she's a demon (or, rather, the demon wouldn't be shouting that it's a demon) and start shouting that Satan exists.

She was strapped to a chair because she was mentally disturbed in a time when such was often mistaken as demonic posession.
You say yourself that the guy from Buffy presents a programme where he travels the world in search of MYTHS AND LEGENDS. There may be a hint there. You also say he investigated vampire legends. Seeing as this is a 'factual documentary' you also now believe in vampires?

Ghost Buster

Here is the series concerned. he also covers Zombies and Were Wolves which i guess Batsy now firmly believes in.]the series looks like entertaining fun. Its a shame some folk are taken in by it.
Must dash. Im off to see my medium.

Ghost Buster

Batsy wrote: »

People did not believe the world was flat. That's a myth.

Unless the guy from Buffy investigates it then it becomes fact.........

philologos

mcmoustache wrote: »

*The god suff can stand up to scrutiny but some clever mental gymnastics and compartmentalisation are required.

It can stand up to scrutiny on its own merit. Compartmentalisation isn't particularly necessary if one believes that the world was created by God, as a result Creation including all scientific laws and all logic were created by Him also.

In fact it would be compartmentalisation if I believed what I did and divorced elements of Creation from His dominion and authority.

strobe

The home I grew up in (the one I moved into when I was 5) was actually exorcised by the RCC shortly before we bought it. (genuinely)

Didn't see a single demon from the day we moved in through to the day I left home. They know their stuff, those exorcists.

Ghost Buster

philologos wrote: »

It can stand up to scrutiny on its own merit. Compartmentalisation isn't particularly necessary if one believes that the world was created by God, as a result Creation including all scientific laws and all logic were created by Him also.

In fact it would be compartmentalisation if I believed what I did and divorced elements of Creation from His dominion and authority.

It can stand up to its own scrutiny on its own terms. But it does not stand up to any scientific scrutiny.
This can be said about many religions and gods.

Ghost Buster

strobe wrote: »

The home I grew up in (the one I moved into when I was 5) was actually exorcised by the RCC shortly before we bought it. (genuinely)

Didn't see a single demon from the day we moved in through to the day I left home. They know their stuff, those exorcists.

Is this a bit like the nononsense.ie insurance against bear attacks in Cavan. Its so successful that there have been no bear attacks recorded in ages.;)

philologos

Ghost Buster wrote: »

It can stand up to its own scrutiny on its own terms. But it does not stand up to any scientific scrutiny.
This can be said about many religions and gods.

What do you mean by "scientific scrutiny"?

You mean that it cannot be proven, much in the way that most other things including the reliability of your senses cannot be proven? (Proof lies in mathematics)

If you applied the same standards to whatever else cannot be proven I'd definitely give your worldview a lot more respect. Since you don't one could wonder why you continue using that as your key objection.

Ghost Buster

philologos wrote: »

What do you mean by "scientific scrutiny"?

You mean that it cannot be proven, much in the way that most other things including the reliability of your senses cannot be proven? (Proof lies in mathematics)

If you applied the same standards to whatever else cannot be proven I'd definitely give your worldview a lot more respect. Since you don't one could wonder why you continue using that as your key objection.

No no. What do you mean by 'it can stand up to scrutiny". We need to clarify that before we proceed.
And also what the bejaysas do you mean most other things cannot be proven including our senses?,
Im more certain that i am reading your words and feeling the keys under my fingers and hearing them click than i am of any of the myriad of gods or demonic possessions and im pretty sure that our senses are understood biologically.
So again. What do you mean by 'stands up to scrutiny' and by whom?

philologos

It can hold up irrespective of what objections that one throws at it. Christianity remains in 2011 and it continues to grow globally in 2011. It grows not because of man's effort but because of God's providence and faithfulness.

I mean that our senses cannot objectively be proven to be reliable. Therefore why do you trust in them if they cannot be proven to be so?

I trust in God, because He has shown Himself to be reliable in my life. His Word also shows itself to be true in daily life. His word provides a realistic picture of the human condition and the way things are. Whole swathes of the Biblical text can be backed up historically. The existence of Jesus is regarded widely by historians. That's good enough for me. I trust in His Word because I have good reason to. If I didn't I wouldn't.

Likewise your senses come in pretty handy when you're crossing the road even if they cannot be proven to be reliable.

Halal Butcher

philologos wrote: »

It can hold up irrespective of what objections that one throws at it. Christianity remains in 2011 and it continues to grow globally in 2011. It grows not because of man's effort but because of God's providence and faithfulness.

I mean that our senses cannot objectively be proven to be reliable. Therefore why do you trust in them if they cannot be proven to be so?

I trust in God, because He has shown Himself to be reliable in my life. His Word also shows itself to be true in daily life. His word provides a realistic picture of the human condition and the way things are. Whole swathes of the Biblical text can be backed up historically. The existence of Jesus is regarded widely by historians. That's good enough for me. I trust in His Word because I have good reason to. If I didn't I wouldn't.

Likewise your senses come in pretty handy when you're crossing the road even if they cannot be proven to be reliable.

So you believe the story in the New Testament of the demonic possession and the pigs?

1 They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. 2 When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. 3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones. 6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” 8 For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!”
9 Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.
11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.
14 Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. 15 When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 16 Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man—and told about the pigs as well. 17 Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
18 As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed begged to go with him. 19 Jesus did not let him, but said, “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you.” 20 So the man went away and began to tell in the Decapolis how much Jesus had done for him. And all the people were amazed.

philologos

^^ Yes, I do.

We're actually working our way through Mark's Gospel on the Christianity forum right now.

Ghost Buster

philologos wrote: »

^^ Yes, I do.

We're actually working our way through Mark's Gospel on the Christianity forum right now.

Wow..Just wow!!!!
Truly scary

philologos

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Wow..Just wow!!!!
Truly scary

How so? I thought you knew that I actually believe in Jesus.

Ghost Buster

philologos wrote: »

It can hold up irrespective of what objections that one throws at it. Christianity remains in 2011 and it continues to grow globally in 2011. So does Witchcraft and Voodoo. It grows not because of man's effort but because of God's providence and faithfulness.

I mean that our senses cannot objectively be proven to be reliable. Therefore why do you trust in them if they cannot be proven to be so?

I trust in God, because He has shown Himself to be reliable in my life. His Word also shows itself to be true in daily life. His word provides a realistic picture of the human condition and the way things are. Whole swathes of the Biblical text can be backed up historically. The existence of Jesus is regarded widely by historians. That's good enough for me. I trust in His Word because I have good reason to. If I didn't I wouldn't.

Likewise your senses come in pretty handy when you're crossing the road even if they cannot be proven to be reliable.

Yes an invisible uberbeing who exists outside our perception with no corporeal form can tend to do that. The rest of your post has as much merit as those who firmly firmly believe that they have been abducted by aliens and had unpleasant things done to their bottoms.

Ghost Buster

philologos wrote: »

How so? I thought you knew that I actually believe in Jesus.

I believe in jesus as well (The man from whom the myth and legend formed). The chatty snakes, pillars of salt, flaming vocal bushes, ladies getting pregnant from a magic cuddle, demonically possessed pigs etc dont automatically follow. Thats just plain crazy stuff:eek:
Funny how we dont see so much of that stuff 2000 years on eh?

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

It can hold up irrespective of what objections that one throws at it. Christianity remains in 2011 and it continues to grow globally in 2011. It grows not because of man's effort but because of God's providence and faithfulness.

Yes, indeed, as the population in third world countries with lack of proper education increases, compared to first world countries, so too does the number who prescribe to Christian beliefs. You are manipulating statistics, methinks.

philologos

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Yes, indeed, as the population in third world countries with lack of proper education increases, compared to first world countries, so too does the number who prescribe to Christian beliefs. You are manipulating statistics, methinks.

I'm not basing it on births, but rather on the people who accept Christianity for themselves. More and more people in the world are doing this today. I can thank God that more are coming to know Him even if others are falling away.

Killer Pigeon

Satan was the good guy in the Bible. Just read the Old Testament.

Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions) were devised as a control mechanism by the ruling classes.

The Bible paints Luficer, he who enlightens, as the evil one, the prince of darkness. Lucifer tried to ween humanity away from the genocidal God of the Old Testament in favour of rationale and freedom from the chains of God's wrath. "Lucifer", literally means the "Light bearer", the Illuminator, the one who sheds light on reality.

Lucifer, after all, was the person who, according to the Bible, first helped men develop free will - the infamous apple from Tree of Life, awakening mankind to the reality of the world.

In the Bible, we are subconsciously led to believe that being knowledgeable about the reality of the world is evil. To question reality is ungodly. To question the order of society is blasphemous.

When people are led to believe this, they would easily succumb to the will of the ruling class; under their control.

Christianity, along with Judaism and Islam, were probably one of the greatest mechanism of social engineering man has ever devised.

philologos

Christianity - a means of social engineering which civil authorities disagreed with for centuries, and still disagree with to this very day. One would wonder how successful a means of social engineering it would be if it serves God Himself and those who long to know Him.

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

Christianity - a means of social engineering which civil authorities disagreed with for centuries, and still disagree with to this very day.

Well of course they would disagree with that analogy. If they agreed then the whole point of the mechanism would be destroyed.

philologos wrote: »

One would wonder how successful a means of social engineering it would be if it serves God Himself and those who long to know Him.

*Cough* false promises.

Killer Pigeon

I like to regard myself as an Agnostic Atheist who follows a Satanic philosophy.

philologos

Killer Pigeon - Who would the mechanism be serving? The only Kingdom Christianity ever serves is God's Kingdom. The only person that Christianity ever glorifies is Jesus Christ. Christianity at its core claims to inspire people to do two things:
1) Love the Lord your God with their your heart soul and might.
2) Love their neighbour as themselves.

If I achieve those two things in my life time, I'll consider it a life well lived.

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

Killer Pigeon - Who would the mechanism be serving? The only Kingdom Christianity ever serves is God's Kingdom. The only person that Christianity ever glorifies is Jesus Christ.

Christianity at its core claims to inspire people to do two things:
1) Love the Lord your God with their your heart soul and might.
2) Love their neighbour as themselves.

If I achieve those two things in my life time, I'll consider it a life well lived.

I can't fathom how it isn't so obvious.

philologos

As far as I see it, it isn't obvious because it's not true Killer Pigeon.

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

As far as I see it, it isn't obvious because it's not true Killer Pigeon.

Look, make up an idol, brainwash everyone into believing in it and give them false promises of hope given onto humanity by this "God". Behind it all, they fall into the control of the person who preaches about this "God". This is the reality of most religions.

The sadest thing I ever heard was from a homeless man I met when I was helping out in Crosscare when I was in school. He told me, "I always thought I was homeless, until I found out that my true home is in heaven". The man was so compelled by this belief, that he went to mass ever day and gave a sizable amount of his tiny allowance to the collections during mass, including the collection for the "Sick and Retired Priests of the Parish". Instead of saving up his much needed allowance, he scarified it to those who preached these beliefs. I was about 15/16 at the time and I got so sickened by how this man was brainwashed that I began seriously questioning the whole reality of the Catholic Church and religion in general. That man is probably dead now. Religion is a profitable business that feeds on the weak and vulnerable.

philologos

I became a Christian on reading the Scriptures as a teenager. No brainwashing involved, I came to my own conclusions and as a result accepted Christ. What I read in the Bible was compelling and convincing.

I go to church, simply put to be a part of that community and to grow spiritually so that I can tell others about Christ. Churches shouldn't control people, and indeed mine doesn't. If I find something that the preacher on a given Sunday has said objectionable, I can go up to him and ask him about what was said and where he found it in the Bible. Through my own thinking I can determine whether or not I found a particular sermon reasonable. That's the way that churches should be, encouraging people to read the Bible for themselves and discover Jesus for themselves as I did. That's the best gift one can give anyone.

Christianity is intellectually rigorous and is about continual discovery about the inner nature of reality.

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

Christianity is intellectually rigorous and is about continual discovery about the inner nature of reality.

The only "intellectual rigor" in Christianity is in interpretation of man-made scripture. The only discoveries one can make about the nature of reality in Christianity are from the biased perspective of scripture and church doctrine. The rational way to interpret reality is from a completely unbiased standpoint, religion doesn't offer this. Science and pure philosophy are the only things that can offer anything close to this. Religion is a ready-made philosophy which filters one's interpretation of reality.

philologos

Killer Pigeon - again, that's only if you understand it as "man made Scripture". As for church doctrine, one could be a member of no church and nonetheless come to read the Bible and discover more about who Jesus said He was. It is up to you from there to determine if it is reasonable that He was who He said He was. As a result of what I saw, and from looking at reality on the basis of what I read I came to the conclusion that Christianity was accurate in its assessment of the truth.

All this started from a prayer which I thought would land on deaf ears. Out of curiosity I decided to read the Bible, I prayed something along the lines of "God if you're really there, show me who you are", and lo-and-behold He did.

Terry

Batsy wrote: »

<stuff about possession and Anthony Head>

I agree.
Anthony Head was also in a 145 part documentary about Vampires and Demons in modern day Southern California. It was really educational.

Wow! As I write this, there's a documentary on Channel 4 about vampires in America.

Anyway, word is that they actually originated here in Ireland. The first one was called "Dracula", but he went by the pseudonym of "Bram".

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Satan was the good guy in the Bible. Just read the Old Testament.

Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions) were devised as a control mechanism by the ruling classes.

The Bible paints Luficer, he who enlightens, as the evil one, the prince of darkness. Lucifer tried to ween humanity away from the genocidal God of the Old Testament in favour of rationale and freedom from the chains of God's wrath. "Lucifer", literally means the "Light bearer", the Illuminator, the one who sheds light on reality.

Lucifer, after all, was the person who, according to the Bible, first helped men develop free will - the infamous apple from Tree of Life, awakening mankind to the reality of the world.

In the Bible, we are subconsciously led to believe that being knowledgeable about the reality of the world is evil. To question reality is ungodly. To question the order of society is blasphemous.

When people are led to believe this, they would easily succumb to the will of the ruling class; under their control.

Christianity, along with Judaism and Islam, were probably one of the greatest mechanism of social engineering man has ever devised.

****ing Satanist. May you burn in Hel....
Shít. Wait...
Damn you to hell Sata...

ffs. You just keep winning.

Terry

philologos wrote: »

Killer Pigeon - again, that's only if you understand it as "man made Scripture". As for church doctrine, one could be a member of no church and nonetheless come to read the Bible and discover more about who Jesus said He was. It is up to you from there to determine if it is reasonable that He was who He said He was. As a result of what I saw, and from looking at reality on the basis of what I read I came to the conclusion that Christianity was accurate in its assessment of the truth.

All this started from a prayer which I thought would land on deaf ears. Out of curiosity I decided to read the Bible, I prayed something along the lines of "God if you're really there, show me who you are", and lo-and-behold He did.

That wasn't God.
It was me fúcking with you, Jakkass.

Killer Pigeon

Terry wrote: »

****ing Satanist. May you burn in Hel....
Shít. Wait...
Damn you to hell Sata...

ffs. You just keep winning.

I am Satan. I have come to you to free you from the shackles and chains of God. But of course, I am Satan, I do not exist, or do I....

Killer Pigeon

philologos wrote: »

Out of curiosity I decided to read the Bible, I prayed something along the lines of "God if you're really there, show me who you are", and lo-and-behold He did.

http://www.goldenpages.ie/psychiatrists/

Knight who says Meh

philologos wrote: »

I became a Christian on reading the Scriptures as a teenager.
Teenagers eh. Rampant hormones, confusion, needyness, emotions running riot and the need to belong to something. Glad i read Lord of the Rings as a teen. Isnt that right MY PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and i also read the bible as a devout wee irish catholic in a rural area after years as an altar boy and realised what an incitement to violence by a monster it is. Now Im an atheist. Different strokes for different folks.;)

Knight who says Meh

philologos wrote: »

Killer Pigeon - again, that's only if you understand it as "man made Scripture". As for church doctrine, one could be a member of no church and nonetheless come to read the Bible and discover more about who Jesus said He was. It is up to you from there to determine if it is reasonable that He was who He said He was. As a result of what I saw, and from looking at reality on the basis of what I read I came to the conclusion that Christianity was accurate in its assessment of the truth.

All this started from a prayer which I thought would land on deaf ears. Out of curiosity I decided to read the Bible, I prayed something along the lines of "God if you're really there, show me who you are", and lo-and-behold He did.

Thats sounds like classic demonic possession to me.
As much as folk say that the Devils best trick was making us believe he does not exist I firmly believe that his best trick is making susceptible teens believe that his voice is the voice of God and then dedicate their lives to him.
You need exorcism Philologos and you need it now. THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!!!!

flutterflye

This thread has gone a bit weird.

God is dead and no one cares and if there is a hell, I'll see you there.

Killer Pigeon

I never heard anyone complaining about dying yet.

Knight who says Meh

flutterflye wrote: »

This thread has gone a bit weird.

God is dead and no one cares and if there is a hell, I'll see you there.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeel. Believing in demonic possession is pretty weird as a starting point!!!!!

Knight who says Meh

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I never heard anyone complaining about dying yet.

Jesus obviously didnt like it much. He only gave it 3 days then packed his bag and came back.

holystungun9

I imagine so. They believe in enough fantasy stuff to begin with.

nozzferrahhtoo

To answer the OP, yes there are Christians who believe this stuff. The problem with Christianity however is that there is over 33000 different branches of it. It is impossible to say "Christians believe X" or do not believe X with much accuracy as some do, some do not.

I have even met "Christians" who are atheist. The consider themselves Christian solely because they observe the teachings of the Christ character, devoid of the metaphysical baggage.... as they recognize that if you wrote down all the actual useful things the Nazareen was meant to have said or espoused and ditched the rest.... nothing of what is left requires you to accept anything on insufficient evidence in order to support or subscribe to it.

So yes you will find some Christians who subscribe to nonsense notions like demonic posession. This will not mean they all do. Actually in one of the recent Truly True Believer awards on Atheist Ireland (monthly award where users of the forum vote the winner each month) we had a nomination from a pastor who is currently teaching teen girls how to do exorcisms. Clearly putting attractive children in rooms with crazy "posessed" men is ok these days!

Batsy wrote: »

She was strapped to a chair whilst priests attempted to perform an exorcism on her. All the time she was screaming loudly and shouting obscenities whilst struggling to break out of the straps.

In fairness if a bunch of men in dresses strapped me to a bed, especially when said bunch of men in dresses are known for their sexual deviance, I would likely be doing a lot of cussing and struggling too. That hardly means demons exist or that I have one inside me. It does mean I do not want to be tied to a bed and I am worried about what THEY might want to put inside me.

Batsy wrote: »

This male voice then shouted out certain secrets

The display was not organised by Peter Popoff by any chance was it? He is sort of known to be a master of shouting out things about the audience that they do not remember ever having mentioned. Thankfully his tricks were uncovered.

Clue: That was not a hearing aid he was wearing.

Clue 2: When you hear the line "She knew things the audience never told her" alarm bells should go off.

Batsy wrote: »

Her possession was then over but her body was left phsically broken.

But her bank account bigger from all those that bought tickets I am sure.

philologos wrote: »

It can stand up to scrutiny on its own merit.

Then why do you consistently turn tail and run away from all such scrutiny and why have you not presented a shred of substantiation for the claims? Ever.

philologos wrote: »

It can hold up irrespective of what objections that one throws at it.

Yes, all you have to do is consistently run away from just objections and do not listen to them. Then it "stands up to them". Oh wait... that is what you do already! Forgot.

old hippy

philologos wrote: »

Christianity - a means of social engineering which civil authorities disagreed with for centuries, and still disagree with to this very day. One would wonder how successful a means of social engineering it would be if it serves God Himself and those who long to know Him.

Who longs to know?

TwoShedsJackson

philologos wrote: »

All this started from a prayer which I thought would land on deaf ears. Out of curiosity I decided to read the Bible, I prayed something along the lines of "God if you're really there, show me who you are", and lo-and-behold He did.

What form did this revelation take?

parrai

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

In fairness if a bunch of men in dresses strapped me to a bed, especially when said bunch of men in dresses are known for their sexual deviance, I would likely be doing a lot of cussing and struggling too. That hardly means demons exist or that I have one inside me. It does mean I do not want to be tied to a bed and I am worried about what THEY might want to put inside me.

That is just generalisation and rubbish... Yes there are some but not all priests are guilty perverts. It would be akin to saying all atheists were known for approaching female athiests in elevators and harrassing them to go for a coffee!

nozzferrahhtoo

parrai wrote: »

That is just generalisation and rubbish...

Yes it is a generalization, and no it is not rubbish. So you are half right. I meant it as a generalization and imply nothing like the idea that all of them are sexual deviants. I imply only that the group is currently known for it, which clearly they are. Not just the ones that perform it either, but the ones that facilitate it. Maybe you mistook what I meant by "known for it". I simply mean that when you mention priests these days, this is often the connection people make in their heads. A connection that would be easier to make were you to find yourself tied to a bed, of all places.

However to stay on topic of the thread, my point was that if I was tied to a bed in a room full of such people, I would be acting as described too. The point being: Maybe the person was more likely to be acting as she was due to her situation and not due to possession or other such supernatural nonsense.

It really is Monty Python style thinking to anger someone and when they get angry use that as evidence they are demonic. It's like asking someone 100 times "Are you in a bad mood" and when they finally flip you go "SEE! I knew you were in a bad mood".

parrai

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Yes it is a generalization, and no it is not rubbish. So you are half right. I meant it as a generalization and imply nothing like the idea that all of them are sexual deviants. I imply only that a group is currently known for it, which clearly they are. Not just the ones that perform it either, but the ones that facilitate it.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Maybe you mistook what I meant by "known for it". I simply mean that when you mention priests these days, this is often the connection people make in their heads. A connection that would be easier to make were you to find yourself tied to a bed, of all places.

I misunderstood nothing, you made a generalisation that bunched all priests together. I suggest you read what you wrote. It's there in plain english. However, maybe you just worded it incorrectly.

How do you know what connection people make in their heads? Another generalisation.

Yes there is a problem there in the catholic church, there are some genuine people involved there too that have nothing to do with the despicable behaviour of the ones involved, be they in the higher ranks of the catholic church that hide what was going on or the deviants that commited these atrocious crimes.

nozzferrahhtoo

I have enough of my own words without you pretending I said something I did not. So you can give up quoting my posts and changing their contents. I said "the" group not "a" group.

I am perfectly aware of what I wrote thank you and I stand by it. The group as a whole is currently "known" in the public eye as being connected with sexual deviancy. That is all I meant. If you want to append more meaning to it than that, you can do it on your own time but you would be wrong.

Compound this with the scenario of being tied to a bed and I doubt you will find many people who do not find sexual connotations arising in their head, especially if they are the ones actually tied to the bed.

Again to go back on topic, the user I replied to wished to suggest that the girl tied to the bed in the presence of such people.... cussing and struggling as she was... was somehow evidence for demonic possession. I warrant however that if a group of such people were to tie anyone to the bed, quite a number of them would act in similar fashion. I know I would.