AMD dropping the ball

Kur4mA

I just posted this in Computing but given my argument, it's probably more relevant in Games.
_________________________

I've had it with AMD and their complete ignorance of their graphics card customers and the way they've been running things lately. I'm not a fanboy by any means, but I have stuck with AMD for a while. I run 2x6850's in crossfire and there has been so many issues with Skyrim because AMD haven't bothered to release a performance driver OR CAP's yet.

Now don't get me wrong, this hasn't been game breaking although it's not far off. I've had to download custom tweaks and software to get the most out of the game simply because AMD aren't arsed. It was the same story with BF3, Rage (11.11 Catalyst drivers being released THIS week should finally resolved Rage isses... when was Rage released again??), Deus Ex, plus there are issues with MW3 and people are now reporting the same old story with the Star Wars:TOR beta.

Here's the last Skyrim update we got from @CatalystCreator on twitter:

CatalystCreator
We're working on a CAP update for Skyrim; as soon as an ETA is known I'll let you guys know
10 Nov

We don't even have an ETA for a CAP release yet, never mind an actual fúcking CAP! It's a joke at this stage... Meanwhile, nvidia have released yet another performance driver for BF3, and they had a beta driver up before Skyrim was even released.

This sums it up really, particularly The Bottom Line:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/11/elder_scrolls_v_skyrim_performance_iq_preview/3

Personally, this is the last straw and I cannot wait to get an nvidia card back into my machine.

Overheal

kyub wrote: »

Personally, this is the last straw and I cannot wait to get an nvidia card back into my machine.

So it can melt?

Kur4mA

Overheal wrote: »

So it can melt?

?

spix

kyub wrote: »

?

Hes implying that nvidia cards melt.

Overheal

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1028703/all-nvidia-g84-g86s-bad

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1004378/why-nvidia-chips-defective
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1013947/why-nvidia-duff-chips-shoddy-engineering
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1036374/what-nvidia

I'm sure they're as quick to deploy drivers as they are quick to rush GPUs out the door without the right quality control.

Kur4mA

I do remember all of these cases of nvidia card issues, but those articles are all from 2008. That was a last gen issue and hasn't happened to any of the current generation Nvidia cards. I don't know anyone who had a last gen one "melt" either.

Big Knox

kyub wrote: »

Right ehh... those articles are all from 2008. That was a last gen issue and hasn't happened to any of the current generation Nvidia cards. I don't know anyone who had a last gen one "melt" either but whatever.

Overheal is right I had issues with nvidia cards overheating myself. However I learned from my mistake and the GTX 580 I have is a custom built Asus with improved cooling which is the best option I find these days.

AMD have become really lazy with their driver updates, I know the catalyst software has never been great but they're getting worse not better.

Kur4mA

Big Knox wrote: »

Overheal is right I had issues with nvidia cards overheating myself. However I learned from my mistake and the GTX 580 I have is a custom built Asus with improved cooling which is the best option I find these days.

AMD have become really lazy with their driver updates, I know the catalyst software has never been great but they're getting worse not better.

Agree with you there regards cooling. I use ASUS cards also. They do some pretty amazing customizations to their cards and honestly cooling even on my 6850's is fantastic. The drivers and general lack of support from AMD is the problem.

Azza

Running a single HD 6870 and very little to complain about.

2 play throughs of Deus Ex Human Revolution and just 1 crash on each play through. No problems with the Missing Link DLC which I also went through twice but it crashed each time I exited the game. Not sure of the cause but its a non issue anyway. Ran at max settings at 1920x1200. Tiny stuttering in Detroit hub, but 30-40fps everywhere else.

SSF IV AE. Easy game to run. Max settings with 8xAA at 1920x1200. FPS capped at a constant 60fps.

Cod:Black Ops. Poor performance on first mission but fine for the rest of the game at max settings 1920x1200 and 4xAA. Game has some significant bugs that are not related to graphics.

Rage. Had major texture pop in issues on day 1 as well as flickering NPC's . But day 2 patch addressed texture pop up issues and flickering NPC's and only had 1 crash (pre-day 2 patch). ATI released a day 1 preview driver and the full driver a few days later. Ran on max settings at 1920x1200 with 4xAA. Very smooth frame rate for 95% of the game felt close to 50-60fps. Only the second hub town had some slight stuttering.

Skyrim running fine for me at 1920x1200 with 4xAA and no FXAA. Some stutter on load in and a few minor graphics issues (minor texture flickering in distance, common to many games, think its a Z-buffer issue) Very occasional breif frame rate dips but for the most part perfectly playable. Frame rate feels about 30-ish. 1 crash in 7 hours of play.

Red Orchestra 2. Buggy game, lots of crashes but most likely to do with the game not the graphics card. Runs between 30fps-40fps at max settings with no form of AA at 1920x1200. Occasional FPS dips.

BF3. Ran fine at everything set to high with no form of AA at 1920x1200. Some crashes in multiplayer but not graphics related. Frame rate feels very smooth. Feels like its average 40-50fps.

Same card saw me through GTA 4 and its DLC episodes. 1920x1200 at max settings with reduced draw distance of around 40-50%. Frame rate ran around the 30 mark. Moderate graphics issues with the game. Flickering textures not sure if its ATI specific though. A few crashes in GTA 4 but not in the DLC. DLC seemed tougher to run. Game requires a Core i5/i7 to run really well.

Dead Space 2. Maxed with no issues. No crashes.

Crysis 2. Maxed DX9 settings with no issues (before texture pack and DX11 patch) Maybe 1 crash.

Brief look at Metro 2033. No graphics issues but highest settings where unplayable. Very tough game to run. 1 or 2 DX 11 features would need to be disabled before being able to play it 1920x1200.

Brief look at Shogun 2. Was some graphical glitches over water and stability bugs. Believe patches and drivers update fixed those but not played the game since. Seemed to run fine at 1920x1200 with no AA and max settings.

Also able to run Arma 2 on max settings with no AA at 1920x1200. Draw distance around 2000-3000 metres. Frame rate feels mid 30-ish.

Kur4mA

Nice rundown. My issue is not so much with some of the older games but how lazy AMD are with regards to releasing performance drivers for new games, and in particular CAP's. This is a nightmare particularly for anyone running a Crossfire setup.

It's been the story for me with Rage and BF3 in particular, but Skyrim for myself and others is a nightmare. No Crossfire support from AMD as yet and still no ETA.

**EDIT** and again, Nvidia release their performance driver including full SLI support before Skyrim was released. It's just not good enough from AMD.

Azza

Don't think I would touch multi gpu set ups from either AMD or Nvidia. Micro stuttering problem and driver issues put me off. Single card set ups are less of a headache.

ShadowHearth

the only worse fanboy war then COD vs BF is AMD vs NVIDIA.

since multy gpu setups came out, there were always problems.

bouth AMD and NVIDIA had and have ****s ups. Its not about being loyal anymore, but about getting the best bang for your money with best quality at given time.

i used 8800gt and i was happy 4.5 years. now i got ati 6870 and happy too.

Dcully

I buy the best bang for buck when im buying a gfx card, i dont care who makes it.
Right now im running the likes of BF3,Skyrim,Rage at max/ultra gfx @ 1920 X 1080 on my XFX 6950, ive yet to have a crash or issue with either of the games mentioned or indeed any game i have played with it, apart from fallout 3 but i cant be sure if thats related to gfx card.
Performance is excellent,the card is whisper quiet, im happy with it.
I dont experience any of the issues outlined in that HARDOCP article at all.
Having said that i do fine ati drivers are slow to be released.

Venom

Multi GPU setups are a pain in the arse no matter what brand of graphics card you use. Iv always found buying a high end card so much less hassle than picking up two lower end cards and pairing them up as the small extra boost in FPS is never worth the overall grief.

Krieg

Aye im jumping back to nvidia. Also never using crossfire again




The classic debate still holds true I think

AMD
LOL no drivers

Nvidia
Enjoy your house fire


Wont be long until I bitch about nvidia and go back to AMD

ED E

Crossfire <- Your mistake, this is it.


Dont make things complicated. Running Skyrim on a 5770Hawk no problems(well, CPU is a little tight, but thats separate). Same goes for most people it would seem.

Trevor451

+1, multi GPU setups are crap

Nvidia used to have better drivers than AMD a few years ago but now they are mostly the same.

Happy 6950 user here

Cuddlesworth

Just so I am clear on this? You are criticising AMD on driver releases when their one and only competitor released a driver update that turned off the fans on 9800GTX's and fried a huge number of them before being pulled?

You have to understand the graphics industry to be aware of the actual problem. Nvidia has over the last few years invested heavily in game sponsorship, getting exclusive access to game code and working closely with developers for driver optimisation. AMD also do this but nowhere near the same extent. One side effect of this process seems to be a distinct prevalence towards one gfx chip maker on release with a more expected result within a couple of months. Sometimes even a almost "degrading" performance out of one side of the coin. But the Gfx industry is competitive, always has been and this aspect of it will only become more obvious as time goes on.

Also, as said by other posters crossfire and Sli are so overly complicated that driver performance is expected to be limited on release.

Overheal

The Way Its Meant to be Played, is just a partnership deal that Nvidia gets with companies to yes, make the game perform better on Nvidia cards and occasionally even hamper competitor cards. Arkham City for example excluded ATI cards from doing a lot of graphical effects by slapping a PhysX sticker on them and calling it Science.

Kur4mA

Wow, are you guys actually serious? The problem with last gen cards isn't the issue, seriously it's been done to death. If Nvidia can invest heavily in driver optimisation and cutting deals with certain publishers, then why can't AMD do the same?

And yeah, I'm well aware that cfx/sli isn't for everyone but it's a major selling point of both companies and something they are supposed to support. Nvidia seem to be doing a pretty decent job of that. AMD absolutely don't. Case in point:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/catalystcreator

Kirby

Trevor451 wrote: »

+1, multi GPU setups are crap

Nvidia used to have better drivers than AMD a few years ago but now they are mostly the same.

Happy 6950 user here

Nvidia drivers have always been better. And still are now. And will continue to be. Money talks.

Nvidia's attitude towards drivers is pretty simple. Thow money at the publishers, get in on the ground floor with the game and have a huge headstart on the competition with drivers. Thats why they are better. Money. As a customer I don't care because I get a better service. The flipside of this is that AMD's cards have a much better price/performance ratio. So you pay your money and make your choice.

It is kind of similar to microsofts attitude to DLC....the way they pay publishers for timed exclusive DLC.

Cuddlesworth

kyub wrote: »

Wow, are you guys actually serious?

Yes

kyub wrote: »

The problem with last gen cards isn't the issue, seriously it's been done to death.

It was two full generations of cards, that sort of sheer incompetence on quality control is always a issue when any comparison is drawn. Also any driver update which physically damages a card is a huge issue, one which points to severe quality control issues on their driver release process.

kyub wrote: »

If Nvidia can invest heavily in driver optimisation and cutting deals with certain publishers, then why can't AMD do the same?

It would appear that they prefer to spend their money on R&D, rather then a price war on buying out publishers.

kyub wrote: »

And yeah, I'm well aware that cfx/sli isn't for everyone but it's a major selling point of both companies and something they are supposed to support. Nvidia seem to be doing a pretty decent job of that. AMD absolutely don't. Case in point:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/catalystcreator

As I said before, SLI/Crossfire require some serious driver work to get working properly. AMD were unable to do any work on these games until close to release. Its simply a access issue, one dominated by where company's want to put their money.

Andy!!

Overheal wrote: »

So it can melt?

I think you are supposed to use fans... y'know... to keep the temperature of your computer components down....

Genghiz Cohen

Andy!! wrote: »

I think you are supposed to use fans... y'know... to keep the temperature of your computer components down....

I think you are supposed to read the thread... y'know... to keep the yourself from missing the point of his posts....

ShadowHearth

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I think you are supposed to read the thread... y'know... to keep the yourself from missing the point of his posts....

i honestly loled at this!

Andy!!

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I think you are supposed to read the thread... y'know... to keep the yourself from missing the point of his posts....

What...y'know... makes you think I missed the point of the thread? Stupidity on your part? I was merely remarking on an AMD fanboys silly remarks.

Y'know.

Gonzovision

Quite happy with my 2 6870s, only game I had crossfire issues with was Red Orchestra 2.

VenomIreland

I have 2 6950's and this is literally the only game I've had a problem with, which was temporarily solved (until AMD release the latest Drivers or CAP) by disabling crossfire, game still runs maxed out at 2560x1440 on the single 6950.

Genghiz Cohen

Andy!! wrote: »

What...y'know... makes you think I missed the point of the thread? Stupidity on your part? I was merely remarking on an AMD fanboys silly remarks.

Y'know.

What ...y'know... made me think that you missed the point is that your post ...y'know... missed the point.

Off now to download the latest AMD drivers.

dribblesbarbax

Well I have had similar problems with AMD. Especially Crysis 2 which took about 2 months to get it working correctly. I have two 5770's and I have installed the new 11.11 drivers and 11.11 cap1. For me they have made it worse. My frame rate in Skyrim with crossfire enabled is down from 45fps to about 30fps. But using just one card and it runs somewhere in between.

Lone Stone

kyub wrote: »

I just posted this in Computing but given my argument, it's probably more relevant in Games.
_________________________

I've had it with AMD and their complete ignorance of their graphics card customers and the way they've been running things lately. I'm not a fanboy by any means, but I have stuck with AMD for a while. I run 2x6850's in crossfire and there has been so many issues with Skyrim because AMD haven't bothered to release a performance driver OR CAP's yet.

Now don't get me wrong, this hasn't been game breaking although it's not far off. I've had to download custom tweaks and software to get the most out of the game simply because AMD aren't arsed. It was the same story with BF3, Rage (11.11 Catalyst drivers being released THIS week should finally resolved Rage isses... when was Rage released again??), Deus Ex, plus there are issues with MW3 and people are now reporting the same old story with the Star Wars:TOR beta.

Here's the last Skyrim update we got from @CatalystCreator on twitter:

CatalystCreator
We're working on a CAP update for Skyrim; as soon as an ETA is known I'll let you guys know
10 Nov

We don't even have an ETA for a CAP release yet, never mind an actual fúcking CAP! It's a joke at this stage... Meanwhile, nvidia have released yet another performance driver for BF3, and they had a beta driver up before Skyrim was even released.

This sums it up really, particularly The Bottom Line:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/11/elder_scrolls_v_skyrim_performance_iq_preview/3

Personally, this is the last straw and I cannot wait to get an nvidia card back into my machine.

Get a ps3 that'l show em cuz.