What ARE you willing to have cut?

TwoShedsJackson

Galtee wrote: »

Bizarre assertions.

OK, what do you think is the reason that pensioners are not targeted in Budgets?

Galtee

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

OK, what do you think is the reason that pensioners are not targeted in Budgets?

To be fair I haven't really thought about it but if I was pushed on the issue I would say it's because they get little enough as it is and whilst it's more than enough for some pensioners it's not enough for others but the scheme has to be designed to catch the poorest pensioners and so there's really no margin to play with.

Thanks Whore

ejmaztec wrote: »

New low for AH, children=pets.

Perhaps there should an annual kid-licence.

Lol, this reminded me of Dana saying it's a new low for the media in destroying her presidential campaign. As if THAT's the worst media has done.

You clearly haven't been around long. Athough with 17000 posts I'd imagine you have

aido179

Why is it such a bad thing to have some money in this country. FFS you'd swear it was got from mugging people in wheelchairs.

TwoShedsJackson

Galtee wrote: »

To be fair I haven't really thought about it but if I was pushed on the issue I would say it's because they get little enough as it is and whilst it's more than enough for some pensioners it's not enough for others but the scheme has to be designed to catch the poorest pensioners and so there's really no margin to play with.

It would be a bit nicer if that were the case but think about the political system, and, in particular, our politicians.

Politicians have two aims in their career: 1) Get into power. 2) Stay in power.

They get in by promising they will fix anything and everything that is wrong with the country.

They stay in by buying votes, basically, it's how FF won three elections before 2011. If you are middle or upper class, or above a certain age, you are far more likely to vote. As a result, politicians will pander to you and do things that will make you likely to vote for them in the future.

Conversely, people with a lower standard of education, or who are working class are less likely to vote, with the result that they are the ones being targeted for cutbacks. Politicians are counting on voter apathy. They don't have to please everyone, and they can't, they only have to please somewhere over 40% of the voters.

With voter turnout being 60% odd, that means they only have to make about 30% of the total electorate in this country happy in order to stay in power, and they can do that easily enough by pandering to the middle classes and pensioners.

Noffles

Social Welfare Cut it.

Why is it so much higher here than in the UK?

Why will it not be cut this budget

There are so many out of work cutting these payments it makes sense... doesn't it?

Galtee

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

It would be a bit nicer if that were the case but think about the political system, and, in particular, our politicians.

Politicians have two aims in their career: 1) Get into power. 2) Stay in power.

They get in by promising they will fix anything and everything that is wrong with the country.

Agreed. It sickens me. But what sickens me even more is that people fall for it every single time but then we do live in a country where people are shocked each year when it rains in May, June, July and August.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

They stay in by buying votes, basically, it's how FF won three elections before 2011. If you are middle or upper class, or above a certain age, you are far more likely to vote. As a result, politicians will pander to you and do things that will make you likely to vote for them in the future.

Fianna fail got into and stayed in power primarily because of die hard fianna fail voters who would vote blindly regardless of what was going on at the time. Now it's all different with very few die hard votes guaranteed anymore so that really means that everyone is on the table for cutbacks except seemingly the super rich.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Conversely, people with a lower standard of education, or who are working class are less likely to vote, with the result that they are the ones being targeted for cutbacks. Politicians are counting on voter apathy. They don't have to please everyone, and they can't, they only have to please somewhere over 40% of the voters.

I find people who fall into this bracket usually vote Sinn Fein or Labour which wasn't an issue up until last/this year as they never really bothered the big two all that much. but again that's all changed now.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

With voter turnout being 60% odd, that means they only have to make about 30% of the total electorate in this country happy in order to stay in power, and they can do that easily enough by pandering to the middle classes and pensioners.

Middle classes as you put it have been hit the worst over the last 3 years so they definitely haven't been pandering and given there's another 3 years austerity planned it looks as if they won't get a chance to pander running up to the next election either.

Cee-Jay-Cee

All allowances/benefits should be means tested using PPS numbers and not declared income, if persons on benefit/welfare are earning over XXX amount then they should be taxed accordingly.

Ban legal aid for anyone charged with public order offences were alcohol are involved. Legal aid applications should also be based on income as recorded against their PPS number and not some random number made up by the defendants solicitor.

If non irish people find themselves in court and require a translator, they should have to pay for it themselves. They came here knowing this is an english speaking country, why the fúck do they then think theyre entitled to have a translator provided for them at extorionate cost (and in many cases its purely to frustrate the court in the hope their supposed ignorance of the language will excuse them from understanding the laws)

Ministers/TDs should have a flat rate of pay, they chose to do the job so why do they now think that they have to be re-imbursed everytime they step outside their own front doors. Cut all allowances, if they dont like it then resign and let someone willing to do the job for a reasonable salary put themselves forward and be voted in.

Galtee

Noffles wrote: »

Social Welfare Cut it.

Why is it so much higher here than in the UK?

Why will it not be cut this budget

There are so many out of work cutting these payments it makes sense... doesn't it?

You can't just do a direct one to one comparison of the welfare rate in UK and Ireland.

noodler

Galtee wrote: »

You can't just do a direct one to one comparison of the welfare rate in UK and Ireland.

Generally, picking our biggest trading partner and closest neighbour is quite a good reason for comparison.

Taking minimum wage, price differentials etc into account and the UK rate is still alot lower.

srsly78

The UK welfare gives a load of other benefits too (not just rent allowance either). Comparing dole vs dole isn't showing the whole picture.

Galtee

noodler wrote: »

Generally, picking our biggest trading partner and closest neighbour is quite a good reason for comparison.

Taking minimum wage, price differentials etc into account and the UK rate is still alot lower.

What has his got to do with anything? You need to factor in cost of living indexes, it doesn't matter whether you trade glances with them, unless you factor in the cost of living indexes then you don't have a comparison metric.

ahal

I think talk of cuts is premature ... while we have the Croke park agreement.

The CPA is something we can't afford and it should have been binned.

AeoNGriM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Look at why it costs so much to keep a prisoner locked up and why it is necessary to have such a high ratio of prison staff to prisoners ?

Round up all junkies, skangers and headers and chain them together. Then, bayonet the first one and push him into the liffey, pulling the rest in with him.

Zero tolerance for crime. Instant roadside executions for anyone caught comitting a crime, regardless of it's severity.

Don't like it? Then fcukoff somewhere else.

mattjack

whats a header ?

hatrickpatrick

We need just over 3bn in cuts this year.
Last week, the government paid almost 1bn to tantrum throwing gamblers who chose of their own free will to buy Anglo bonds and don't deserve a scrap of support from the government or the taxpayer.
Next year, they are due to pay almost 2bn more to them.

So obviously, the answer to the OP is that I'd slash child benefit, reintroduce college fees and close down A&E units all over the country.
Anything's worth it as long as the 1% don't have to taste reality, ever.
Isn't it?

Fran1985

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

OK, what do you think is the reason that pensioners are not targeted in Budgets?

because they're the only one's to get off their ass and do something about it. Remember their protests a few years ago. them and the students, but some students see it as a day off, while others are there for the trouble. You have some merit in what you say about pensioners, however your "lets pay social welfare to keep crime down" is nonsense

AeoNGriM

mattjack wrote: »

whats a header ?

A bit like a skanger, only they dress a little less.....skangerish. Just as equally disgusting and repugnant though.

Overature

here lads, the government needs to take back control of all the oil and gas we have out west. mine the **** out of it and sell it. that would get rid of out dept in no time

AeoNGriM

I just had an odd thought : What if Kenny and Gilmore are trolling this thread looking for ideas? Look for any 1 or 2 post newbies, and watch them close...........

Squall19

Toad-Girl wrote: »

20euro a night for four nights is eighty euro. There goes all my travel and food money for the week.
'

You drink 20 cans a night?:D

TwoShedsJackson

Fran1985 wrote: »

You have some merit in what you say about pensioners, however your "lets pay social welfare to keep crime down" is nonsense

Nowhere did I say that's what social welfare should be getting used for, I was describing the system as it actually works in Ireland today.

super_furry

I'd really like to see rent allowance slashed as it's artificially inflating the rental market.

dillo2k10

Dean09 wrote: »

The next 2 are somewhat controversial but should be considered in some detail but carefully regulated and monitored....
Legalize cannabis ( I don't smoke weed so this isn't for personal/selfish reasons.
Legalize prostitution. (This would have to be extensively regulated. I'm not 100% sure on this one myself but it could be considered.)

Prostitution isn't illegal in Ireland.

professore

Stinicker wrote: »

as should people connected to Fianna Fail.

You mean 70% of the country then? Amazing how now no-one ever voted for them. Hypocrites the lot of you.

professore

This oil and gas thing is ridiculous. If it's out there for the taking at giveaway tax rates, then why are there not hundreds of oil and gas wells pumping it out of the ground as we speak ???

Sure we could also tax our billions of tonnes of silver, diamond, coal, and platinum reserves too, we could bail out Italy and Spain!

Fromthetrees

Burn the bondholders.:o

mikeym

I would means test the children's allowance, the fact that were paying for kids that don't live in this country is a joke.

I would introduce a chewing gum tax aswell, most of the people who buy chewing gum are irresponsible litter louts :mad:

Theres also too many useless daddies that dont pay a cent in maintenance to thier kids which Is picked up by the tax payer.

The seanad should be scrapped. (Thought that was one of Endas election promises)

There too much top brass in the army slash the numbers.

Long-term dole recipients should be given half dole after 5 years.

Dont know why non eu nationals are entitled to social welfare. Does that mean these people came to Ireland to sponge off the system?

Ponster

> What WOULD you cut?

I'd shut down a few army barracks.

Mike 1972

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Zero tolerance for crime. Instant roadside executions for anyone caught comitting a crime, regardless of it's severity.

Are you claiming to have never committed any crime in your life because if so youre either a self deluded hypocrite or an outright liar.

AhSureTisGrand

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Zero tolerance for crime. Instant roadside executions for anyone caught comitting a crime, regardless of it's severity.

Don't like it? Then fcukoff somewhere else.

That's a crime against punctuation right there

mickydoomsux

Also, what happens of you aren't near a road?

Do you get a stay of execution?

AhSureTisGrand

When I read threads like these I wonder why I don't hear more people expressing admiration for Hitler and Stalin and the likes

Halo Kitty

Speaking of crime, would be interested to find out how much is spent on free legal aid in this country, and why it is so available to people that may well afford to pay some percentage of costs..

Sofa King Great

Stiffler2 wrote: »

oooo, rubs hand together.

TD's salaries, judges salaries, in fact all public sector workers who earn too much
You are there to serve the public, not get rich, if you want to be rich go into the private sector ffs

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. How would you propose to attract the best people for the jobs?

Anita M.

My hair.

noodler

Galtee wrote: »

What has his got to do with anything? You need to factor in cost of living indexes, it doesn't matter whether you trade glances with them, unless you factor in the cost of living indexes then you don't have a comparison metric.

Are you serious?

I suggest you look up why its important.

Sofa King Great wrote: »

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. How would you propose to attract the best people for the jobs?

Whilst living within your means.

You attract the best people for the job whilst living within your means.

Galtee

noodler wrote: »

Are you serious?

I suggest you look up why its important.




Whilst living within your means.

You attract the best people for the job whilst living within your means.

Yes I am very serious, you can NOT do a direct comparison between UK welfare payment and Irish welfare payment without factoring in the cost of living in both countries.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Generally, picking our biggest trading partner and closest neighbour is quite a good reason for comparison.

Taking minimum wage, price differentials etc into account and the UK rate is still alot lower.

Galtee wrote: »

What has his got to do with anything? You need to factor in cost of living indexes, it doesn't matter whether you trade glances with them, unless you factor in the cost of living indexes then you don't have a comparison metric.

Galtee wrote: »

Yes I am very serious, you can NOT do a direct comparison between UK welfare payment and Irish welfare payment without factoring in the cost of living in both countries.

Well done - put words in my mouth despite the fact I clearly said it was "a" good reason for comparison.

You will find that countries who do large amounts of trade with each other also have a greater degree of price normalisation.

You can't just compare the price of something in the UK and Ireland and say that welfare should be 150% higher as a result.

Sofa King Great

noodler wrote: »

Whilst living within your means.

You attract the best people for the job whilst living within your means.

In order to attract people of a similar caliblre of those in the private sector it is necessary to pay wages similar to those in the private sector

Galtee

Noffles wrote: »

Social Welfare Cut it.

Why is it so much higher here than in the UK?

Why will it not be cut this budget

There are so many out of work cutting these payments it makes sense... doesn't it?

This is the original post that I replied to.

Galtee wrote: »

You can't just do a direct one to one comparison of the welfare rate in UK and Ireland.

This is my reply to the original post highlighting that you can't do a direct one to one comparison.

noodler wrote: »

Generally, picking our biggest trading partner and closest neighbour is quite a good reason for comparison.

Taking minimum wage, price differentials etc into account and the UK rate is still alot lower.

This is where you waded in.

Galtee wrote: »

What has his got to do with anything? You need to factor in cost of living indexes, it doesn't matter whether you trade glances with them, unless you factor in the cost of living indexes then you don't have a comparison metric.

This was my reply to that.

noodler wrote: »

Well done - put words in my mouth despite the fact I clearly said it was "a" good reason for comparison.

You will find that countries who do large amounts of trade with each other also have a greater degree of price normalisation.

You can't just compare the price of something in the UK and Ireland and say that welfare should be 150% higher as a result.

So as you can plainly see I haven't put any words in your mouth. I have maintained all along that you cannot do a direct one to one comparison.

Mike 1972

Sofa King Great wrote: »

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. How would you propose to attract the best people for the jobs?

LOL that there are people who still believe this shyte :rolleyes:

Irish Steve

OK, it's after hours, but does that mean there are no real ideas?

How about making people that end up in A & E through their own (drunken or drugged) stupidity pay the full cost of their treatment.

How about reducing or stopping the SW payments to anyone who ends up in A & E through their own (drunken) stupidity.

How about doing away with all the private medicine options and making it a free at the point of consumption health system, which instantly removes the need for huge numbers of beancounters that do nothing all day long except produce massive bills for VHI and the like. If that means increasing the PRSI charge to cover the extra cost, that will about balance what's paid to VHI, Quinn etc.

How about making the HSE go out and renegoitiate many of their drug deals, to get much better prices for many medicines that are a lot cheaper in generic form.

How about making the HSE justify their future

How about looking at the Health service numbers properly, and if the only way to make the system work is to increase the numbers, doing it with permanent staff has to be cheaper than using higher cost agency nursing, and also paying the extra cost of the agency company.

How about making the insurance companies pay the realistic cost of the result of any traffic accident that is shown to be as a result of drink, excessive speed or any other form of dangerous driving. That would include garda costs, hospital costs, and things like repair of the crash barriers. Ok, that is a contradiction of an earlier idea, but it might at least give meaningful work to some of the beancounters that at present are only costing the service money.

How about making all adult cyclists have insurance, and become liable for accidents they cause, especially where absence of lights, or other wrong doing is a contributory factor.

How about making civil service managers personally liable for their mistakes rather than the crazy concept of one government department taking another to court with a potential €12 million fine. How does a fine of a county council encourage better performance in future. All it does is reduce the already lamentable level of service to the consumers.

How about taxing the banks on their overnight deposits that they got today but won't give to the recipients till at least tomorrow, if not longer.

How about stopping the extra payment to teachers for marking exams, acting as polling station staff and all the other perks they get while being paid for long holidays.

How about making the TD's work for the same terms and conditions that they expect the private sector to work for.

How about doing away with all the little deals that have been done with the public sector like extra allowances because the Aer Lingus head office moved from O'Connell St to the airport half a century ago.

How about privatising all waste collection services.

How about making burglars, etc pay the real cost of their crimes in terms of the work involved in catching them etc.

How about introducing a 50% tax on the increase in value of land that's rezoned.

I could go on, but if I do, there's a chance that I will end up being flamed for the next few months, or longer.


Steve

chasm

Irish Steve wrote: »

How about making the insurance companies pay the realistic cost of the result of any traffic accident that is shown to be as a result of drink, excessive speed or any other form of dangerous driving. That would include garda costs, hospital costs, and things like repair of the crash barriers.

Change insurance companies to "Guilty individual" and i'd agree. Jeez we'd never be able to afford insurance if it covered all that because we'd all have to pay the crazy premium regardless of our own driving history.

johnners2981

storker wrote: »

How about reducing them to four? Munster, Leinster, Connaught, Dublin. Until we get the fourth green field back, fold Donegal into Connaught and Cavan into Leinster.

Stork

What about Monaghan??? Where will we go??? I'm scared

kjl

The medical card system.

As it stands it's an absolute joke, I know a doctor who has medical card patient coming out of his ass and everyday there are the same people who waste the doctors time because they are lonely, so they think to themselves oh, Ill go see the doctor when there is nothing wrong with them.

If they decided to charge underprivileged people just €10 to see the doctor and then replace the annual salary they pay the GMS doctors with this €10 from each patient there would be significant savings in the budget. If people are really sick they can muster up 10 quid and it would save a serious amount of time for the doctor and the doctor can choose weather to wave this fee under his own discretion if he feels a patient is genuinely sick and requires addition visits.

I would also add more tax to alcohol and smokes, if a pint cost an extra .50c people would still pay it, and with the amount that is drank in this country it would be a small fortune.

oldyouth

I'd cut:
Medical cards for smokers
Free medical cards for others (rebate €100 charge if card used sparingly during year)
Single parent allowance for a working person
Paid summer holidays for teachers
Replace childrens allowance with child food & clothing vouchers
Cut number of TDs

Sky King

kjl wrote: »

I would also add more tax to alcohol and smokes, if a pint cost an extra .50c people would still pay it, and with the amount that is drank in this country it would be a small fortune.

You would be much better off sticking 20C on a off licence cans and bottles than 50C on a pint - that most certainly would affect draught beer sales. Everyone drinks at home now anyway

Jerri Jordan

I Would definitely cut budgets to roads/transport. and arts /culture and the environment. I think those elements should only be looked at when we have the money to do so. We are not a rich country and we should buckle down for the next few years and concentrate on hospitals and schools.
I think rent allowance should be cut and that social housing should be created from the hundreds of ghost estates and empty houses around the country.
Childrens allowance should be means tested and not giving to the rich.
And there should be higher tax for the rich.
Also pensions for the likes of Cowen and Bertie should be halfed.

Crazy Horse 6

Nobody is the PS on 75,000 a year salary or more.
Raise minimum wage to 10 euro an hour
Lower social welfare by 20% across the board
A third rate of tax set at 70% for the rich
Cut all budgets towards the arts