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Why do children want negative attention??

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  • 13-11-2011 8:33pm
    #1
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭


    My partner and I have a 5 year old. He's in Senior Infants and is flying with everything, the teachers love him cos he's so good with everything and so eager to learn. At home, he plays in his room, loves his Lego and in general, isn't a bad kid, most of the time. BUT, he seems to love negative attention more than praise and positive attention. EG. Today, we were out and he was behaving himself. My partner told him he was being a good boy, and we were going to have a movie night when we got home. Almost instantly, he turned into a brat. He was cheeky, rude, disrespecful...just bold in general. She gave him his warning, his behaviour didn't change and so there was a consequence (he was put sitting in the car so he couldn't play with the other kids) After 5 minutes, he was brought back in and told to behave or there would be another consequence. But it didn't matter, he acted up again. His consequence was no movie night when we got home.

    We discussed his behaviour with him when we got home, told him it was unacceptable and so there was no movie night. We told him to go upstairs until dinner. When he came down for dinner, he had no interest. Bear in mind he hadn't had anything all day. He just pushed his food around the plate and wouldn't eat (he knows this gets him into trouble) he was given a warning, that if he didn't eat, he could just go to bed with no dinner. He started answering back and being cheeky in general. We gave him a time limit of ten minutes to finish (after being there for 20 minutes already). But he ignored it and actually asked could he go to bed.

    My partner and I were discussing it and she reckons he just thrives on negative attention, but I can't understand why. I could understand if he was getting NO attention at all, and negative attention is better than none, but we brought him out for the day, he was playing with other kids, we interacted with him over the day, he was told he was getting a movie night etc, but he'd still rather just not do what he's told. So, any ideas??

    BTW, we also have a 9 year old, a 7 year old, a 3 year old and a 9 month old, so we have experience with kids, but this is a new one on us! None of the others were like this.
    Thanks.


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    #2
    How Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    Perhaps he just likes the attention and he's figured out that he gets more of your time and attention by being bold because of the warnings, the explanations of consequences etc.


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    #3
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    How Strange wrote: »
    Perhaps he just likes the attention and he's figured out that he gets more of your time and attention by being bold because of the warnings, the explanations of consequences etc.

    Yeah, that's similar to what my partner said, but surely he can't like being punished and gotten onto?? It doesn't make sense to me.


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    #4
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    When he's rewarded ie movie night - I presume he has to share it with everyone else...when you are both waiting for him to finish dinner, explaining consequences or sitting in the car with him, he gets you to himself. I think your issue is that with multiple siblings, he doesn't view it as negative attention. :)


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    #5
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Please kill me......................Why on earth did you give yourself this name? Are you ready to change this name?
    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    My partner told him he was being a good boy, and we were going to have a movie night

    Children need encouragement, not praise.

    Pardon me but a five year old knows better than anyone else who he is and what he is. If he hears someone telling him he is "being" good he may interpret this as him being manipulated.

    Who was the movie night really for? Of course he suspected that the movie night was not about him. Why not ask him would you like a movie night? He would see himself as having a say and not being controlled, manipulated, or being taken advantage of.

    To the ego negative and posetive attention are all the same, just different sides of the same coin.

    To begin to get some answers to your question you will have to go deeper and talk to Freudian and Jungian psychologists or study their work.

    It is obvious that you are dealing with a very interesting child who in many ways has qualified himeself to be your teacher! I have probably said too much here and I do not wish to comment further but as you put the question out there I felt free to comment as I did. I wish you every good luck and blessing dealing with your child and the issues he raises for you :)

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #6
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    +1 the two previous posts.


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    #7
    Arciphel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭Arciphel


    The next time he misbehaves start reading him some books by Freud and Jung on the naughty step, that'll sort him out... Maybe as someone else said he is getting too much praise at home/school and is rebelling a bit. Or maybe other kids at school are calling him a goody two shoes and he is trying to redress the balance a bit?


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    #8
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Xenophile wrote: »
    Please kill me......................Why on earth did you give yourself this name? Are you ready to change this name?

    OP's name is irrelevant :confused:


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    #9
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    When he's rewarded ie movie night - I presume he has to share it with everyone else...

    Nope, it's just him and me and my partner. The other kids are from different relationships (long messy story) and aren't always in the house but for movie nights, he has us to himself.
    Xenophile wrote: »
    Please kill me......................Why on earth did you give yourself this name? Are you ready to change this name?

    Why? Long story too, but no, I'm not changing it yet. :)

    Xenophile wrote: »
    Children need encouragement, not praise.

    In fairness, he gets plenty of both.

    Xenophile wrote: »
    Pardon me but a five year old knows better than anyone else who he is and what he is. If he hears someone telling him he is "being" good he may interpret this as him being manipulated.

    Fair point. But would he know what "being manipulated" really is at his age?

    Xenophile wrote: »
    Who was the movie night really for? Of course he suspected that the movie night was not about him. Why not ask him would you like a movie night? He would see himself as having a say and not being controlled, manipulated, or being taken advantage of.

    It IS actually for him. He gets to choose the movie and he comes to the shop with me to pick his treats.

    Xenophile wrote: »
    It is obvious that you are dealing with a very interesting child who in many ways has qualified himeself to be your teacher! I have probably said too much here and I do not wish to comment further but as you put the question out there I felt free to comment as I did. I wish you every good luck and blessing dealing with your child and the issues he raises for you :)

    He is VERY intelligent and I wonder is that the problem sometimes? I don't know. And thank you for your input. Much appreciated.


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    #10
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    January wrote: »
    OP's name is irrelevant :confused:

    Ah it's ok. No problem. Cheers though.


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    #11
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    Nope, it's just him and me and my partner. The other kids are from different relationships (long messy story) and aren't always in the house but for movie nights, he has us to himself.

    In that case he could just be seeing where the boundaries are by pushing them. If he'd had nothing to eat all day, that could make him very grouchy - I know my wee man is like a bear with a sore head if he gets over hungry. When he asked to go to bed, did he go up and straight to sleep?


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    #12
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    In that case he could just be seeing where the boundaries are by pushing them. If he'd had nothing to eat all day, that could make him very grouchy - I know my wee man is like a bear with a sore head if he gets over hungry.

    Well, in my mind I would have thought that because he didn't have anything to eat (due to a busy day) he would have scoffed it. :confused:
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    When he asked to go to bed, did he go up and straight to sleep?

    Yeah he did. He said he was upset, and went up to put on his PJ's and brush his teeth and waited for me to go up and tuck him in.


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    #13
    heidigirl13
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭heidigirl13


    sounds like you could probably ask him himself what's going on?


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    #14
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    Well, in my mind I would have thought that because he didn't have anything to eat (due to a busy day) he would have scoffed it. :confused:

    If only! There are very few things kids have any real autonomy on - their toileting, eating and sleeping are those they can, hence why so many issues arise around those things.
    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    Yeah he did. He said he was upset, and went up to put on his PJ's and brush his teeth and waited for me to go up and tuck him in.

    Perhaps it's a growth spurt? I know my wee fella is going through a growth spurt because he bounces between the smartest, funniest, cutest kid to Kevin & Perry's miniature teenage friend at the drop of hat...and he sleeps a lot.


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    #15
    whydoibother?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    He is VERY intelligent and I wonder is that the problem sometimes? I don't know. And thank you for your input. Much appreciated.

    Any chance he finds some of the praise he's being given patronizing? As Xenophile said sometimes it can be perceived as manipulation. A lot of parenting "techniques" are essentially manipulation - trying to change the behaviour of another. As a particularly bright child, he may feel that he is capable of behaving properly all by himself (though at 5, he may not be completely correct in this 100% of the time, but it may be how he feels). He may therefore resent what he perceives as an intervention on your part to "tweak" or "control" his behaviour, when in his head he was doing fine all by himself. My complete guess would be that he found it patronizing and wanted to show you that efforts to manipulate him will not work so don't try, he's too bright for that. :)


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    #16
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    ...he bounces between the smartest, funniest, cutest kid to Kevin & Perry's miniature teenage friend at the drop of hat...and he sleeps a lot.

    LOL. This is the thing - he is SO funny and witty and smart and cute when he wants to be. Then he does a Kevin, flails the arms and walks away in a strop! There has to be an under-lying reason.
    whydoibother? wrote: »
    Any chance he finds some of the praise he's being given patronizing? As Xenophile said sometimes it can be perceived as manipulation. A lot of parenting "techniques" are essentially manipulation - trying to change the behaviour of another. As a particularly bright child, he may feel that he is capable of behaving properly all by himself (though at 5, he may not be completely correct in this 100% of the time, but it may be how he feels). He may therefore resent what he perceives as an intervention on your part to "tweak" or "control" his behaviour, when in his head he was doing fine all by himself. My complete guess would be that he found it patronizing and wanted to show you that efforts to manipulate him will not work so don't try, he's too bright for that. :)

    I think you may be bang on the money there!! I may have to approach this from a different angle! Cheers.


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    #17
    Tayla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    Xenophile wrote: »
    Pardon me but a five year old knows better than anyone else who he is and what he is. If he hears someone telling him he is "being" good he may interpret this as him being manipulated.
    whydoibother? wrote: »
    Any chance he finds some of the praise he's being given patronizing? As Xenophile said sometimes it can be perceived as manipulation. A lot of parenting "techniques" are essentially manipulation - trying to change the behaviour of another. As a particularly bright child, he may feel that he is capable of behaving properly all by himself (though at 5, he may not be completely correct in this 100% of the time, but it may be how he feels). He may therefore resent what he perceives as an intervention on your part to "tweak" or "control" his behaviour, when in his head he was doing fine all by himself. My complete guess would be that he found it patronizing and wanted to show you that efforts to manipulate him will not work so don't try, he's too bright for that. :)

    I don't necessarily agree with what both of the posters above have said, I have a 6 year old in senior infants with definite similarities to the OP's son, now the days when he decides to be bold just for the sake of it are few and far between but when he does it does feel like he does it on purpose for no reason whatsoever, he has nothing to gain from acting like that and will just end up with a 'consequence'.

    I don't think a child at the age of 5 would feel patronised by their parents telling them they are good, my son thrives on praise and encouragement.

    When you think about praise for a child there are really 2 types, the first is praise where the child might not actually be aware that they actually deserve it at that moment in time because they are just acting normally and the second would be when they have done/created/helped with something and they know they've done a good job.

    In regards to the second sort of praise when my son does something good in school or bakes with me at home and we tell him how brilliant he is and make a big fuss of what he's done he'll still go on and on about it himself for the whole day because he wants us to repeat the compliments....."

    Not that he has to ask us for praise as he will get it throughout the day anyway for playing well with his sister or doing his homework neatly etc but I think he feels so chuffed with himself when he knows his picture or whatever it is is good and he wants us to reiterate the praise, obviously because he likes the feeling it gives him.


    So to get to my point I don't agree that a child might feel patronised by praise but praise where they aren't aware that they deserve it might not mean as much to them and might not necessarily give him the warm fuzzy feeling inside (that the other praise gives them) so maybe that's why he can be so quick to dismiss it if you get me?

    How long has this be going on for OP?


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    #18
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    Please Kill Me wrote: »


    Fair point. But would he know what "being manipulated" really is at his age?

    I think they can't comprehend it like we do but they know they're being manipulated or overlooked etc.
    If you do something to negatively impact your child even before the age of three it will still understand and impact the child they just won't be able to articulate it, understand it or probably even remember it and this continues through childhood at various levels.

    ===

    I sense you might be frustrated with your child but its a funny thing but when I was younger like many children did enjoy winding my parents up, once to the point of being really badly treated but I did it again again, partly to try and control my parents but as well to get them to change their behaviour.

    Your child doesn't really want negative attention off you, I don't think you should ignore him but you shouldn't give him a negative one or any response so far that has led to this repeated behavioral patterns.

    If you try a new approach it will take time until the child changes its approach or reaction.


    I'm sorry I'm not the person to really help you with this but its good to see you're interested in changing for your little one, to give everyone peace I suppose.


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    #19
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    'The other kids are from different relationships (long messy story) and aren't always in the house but for movie nights, he has us to himself.'

    This is the bit that has me confused. If you've a 9, 7, 5, 3 and 9mth old,then he comes in the middle of the family. But you say the others aren't always in the house? There must be a lot of coming and going in the home (or him coming and going to other homes) - perhaps when he gets you to himself, he just wants any attention, as opposed to craving negative attention??


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    #20
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    Tayla wrote: »

    How long has this be going on for OP?

    Over a year now.
    saa wrote: »
    I sense you might be frustrated with your child...

    Yeah, a bit. How can I not be when I know how good he CAN be?
    saa wrote: »
    Your child doesn't really want negative attention off you, I don't think you should ignore him but you shouldn't give him a negative one or any response so far that has led to this repeated behavioral patterns.

    OK, so how do we punish him/give consequesnces? That's not ignoring him and we can't let him off scot-free either.
    saa wrote: »
    I'm sorry I'm not the person to really help you with this but its good to see you're interested in changing for your little one, to give everyone peace I suppose.

    Well, we all only have the children's best interest at heart, even if they don't see it that way.
    unregistered wrote: »
    This is the bit that has me confused. If you've a 9, 7, 5, 3 and 9mth old,then he comes in the middle of the family. But you say the others aren't always in the house? There must be a lot of coming and going in the home (or him coming and going to other homes) - perhaps when he gets you to himself, he just wants any attention, as opposed to craving negative attention??

    OK, I have a 9 and 7 year old from my first marriage. They come and stay once a month for the weekend. The 3 year old isn't in the country anymore but there's pictures of him everywhere and we talk about him sometimes. So there's just him and the 9 month old in the house, bar the one weekend a month the other two come over. It's not as hectic as it may sound. :)


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    #21
    mammmmmy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭mammmmmy


    Please Kill Me wrote: »
    My partner and I have a 5 year old. He's in Senior Infants and is flying with everything, the teachers love him cos he's so good with everything and so eager to learn. At home, he plays in his room, loves his Lego and in general, isn't a bad kid, most of the time. BUT, he seems to love negative attention more than praise and positive attention. EG. Today, we were out and he was behaving himself. My partner told him he was being a good boy, and we were going to have a movie night when we got home. Almost instantly, he turned into a brat. He was cheeky, rude, disrespecful...just bold in general. She gave him his warning, his behaviour didn't change and so there was a consequence (he was put sitting in the car so he couldn't play with the other kids) After 5 minutes, he was brought back in and told to behave or there would be another consequence. But it didn't matter, he acted up again. His consequence was no movie night when we got home.

    We discussed his behaviour with him when we got home, told him it was unacceptable and so there was no movie night. We told him to go upstairs until dinner. When he came down for dinner, he had no interest. Bear in mind he hadn't had anything all day. He just pushed his food around the plate and wouldn't eat (he knows this gets him into trouble) he was given a warning, that if he didn't eat, he could just go to bed with no dinner. He started answering back and being cheeky in general. We gave him a time limit of ten minutes to finish (after being there for 20 minutes already). But he ignored it and actually asked could he go to bed.

    My partner and I were discussing it and she reckons he just thrives on negative attention, but I can't understand why. I could understand if he was getting NO attention at all, and negative attention is better than none, but we brought him out for the day, he was playing with other kids, we interacted with him over the day, he was told he was getting a movie night etc, but he'd still rather just not do what he's told. So, any ideas??

    BTW, we also have a 9 year old, a 7 year old, a 3 year old and a 9 month old, so we have experience with kids, but this is a new one on us! None of the others were like this.
    Thanks.

    Just wondering how you got on with him? Also, children don't distinguish between negative and positive behaviour but they often get more of a reaction for negative behaviour therefor more attention for negative behaviour because you get tensed over it and focus more on it. Just think about it- you prob wouldn't spend a whole day/evening talking about him behaving well but he got control of the whole evening and your attention for the whole evening for behaving badly- thats a reward in his eyes- you rewarded him with attention. I would suggest ignoring a lot of the negative behaviour and being very specific with the praise you give him. I bet the newborn has something to do with him craving more attention because as nature would have it he prob gets less attention since the newborn arrived.
    I hope this helps or that you've already gotten a solution to the prob.


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    #22
    Please Kill Me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    mammmmmy wrote: »
    Just wondering how you got on with him? Also, children don't distinguish between negative and positive behaviour but they often get more of a reaction for negative behaviour therefor more attention for negative behaviour because you get tensed over it and focus more on it. Just think about it- you prob wouldn't spend a whole day/evening talking about him behaving well but he got control of the whole evening and your attention for the whole evening for behaving badly- thats a reward in his eyes- you rewarded him with attention. I would suggest ignoring a lot of the negative behaviour and being very specific with the praise you give him. I bet the newborn has something to do with him craving more attention because as nature would have it he prob gets less attention since the newborn arrived.
    I hope this helps or that you've already gotten a solution to the prob.

    Well, after numerous talks with him, he said he wants to be like me. I'm the authority figure in the house, and outside too in a few scenarios, where people would look up to me or ask for advice. So in school, he's telling the other kids what to do and tells them to "listen to me" and get VERY frustrated when they don't. He also gets annoyed when they don't do good behaviour. In a way, it's kinda cute, but still causing behavioural issues.

    At the same time, I've enrolled him in a local Karate class to help a bit with balance, confidence and discipline and I sneakily peeked in one day to see how he was getting on, to find him shouting above the instructor, running around and being a little sh!t in general. But I told the instructor it was up to him to instill discipline in his class. I explained to the little lad that the instructor is just like his teacher in school and he has to listen to him, and in fairness there has been a big improvement.

    On the other side, I put an X-Box in his room, and he flips the head when he doesn't win a race. I asked what the problem was, and he said he wants to be first all the time. I explained that this isn't always possible and I removed the X-Box until he learns that it's fun and that he can't get annoyed at a game.


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