Sockets in my house MELTING my plugs!

Bigtalker

All,

Very quick one - my hoover is destroying all the sockets in my house. the plau keeps melting and burning the socket turning it brown. We replaced the plug and its happening on the new one. I mentioned this to my neighbour and she said the same thing is happening with her hair dryer and straighteners.

Is this something that known to happen for a specific reason? it sounds to me like its the sockets in our houses. They were built 4 years ago.

wait4me

Perhaps the guys on Electrical forum will be better able to help you.

Sounds as if your appliances are drawing too much power from the socket and therefore could be a fuseboard issue. But I'm not an electrican.

olliewexford

the hoover is shagged. its drawing to much power? motors must have a fault ,is the fuse new when you changed the plug ?. dump it before for house goes up, i know non of us are made of money but thats scary . ps be no harm to press the test button on the rcd in the fuse board, even thought that trips for current loss . the mcb (the smaller ones on the board )should trip for current been overloaded.

wildefalcon

need more information:

How old is the house?

When was it (re)wired?

Does it have a modern fuse board?

Have there been any alterations?

It is highly likely that the wiring is dangerous. I would strongly urge you to get a decent electrician in to inspect the wiring, specifically to check for spurs from the ring main, use of 1.5sqmm wire for ring main and a broken ring.

Also to do a "megger" test on the circuit board and earth.

brightspark

Bigtalker wrote: »

All,

Very quick one - my hoover is destroying all the sockets in my house. the plau keeps melting and burning the socket turning it brown. We replaced the plug and its happening on the new one. I mentioned this to my neighbour and she said the same thing is happening with her hair dryer and straighteners.

Is this something that known to happen for a specific reason? it sounds to me like its the sockets in our houses. They were built 4 years ago.

You need to get your socket replaced, there is either a loose wire or a bad contact within the socket.

As the cable may also be damaged you should get an electrician to check it out.

Alternatively was the new plug correctly wired with all connections tight?

A fault with the vacuum would be unlikely to damage the plug (assuming it still runs and is fitted with an appropriate fuse)

wait4me

Bigtalker wrote: »

I mentioned this to my neighbour and she said the same thing is happening with her hair dryer and straighteners.

This is what worries me - the OP says its happening to all the sockets in the house and the neighbour is complaining as well

brightspark

wait4me wrote: »

Bigtalker wrote: »

I mentioned this to my neighbour and she said the same thing is happening with her hair dryer and straighteners.

This is what worries me - the OP says its happening to all the sockets in the house and the neighbour is complaining as well

Perhaps all the sockets were poorly installed with loose connections?
Get a competent electrician in to check it out.

2 stroke

I wouldn't throw out that hoover yet, get an electrician in. I have a similar problem with some sockets added a few years ago. Currenty I'm blaming the sockets, they were purchased in a large hardware store rather than an electrical supplier. The sockets that have something plugged in permanently appear fine, but the ones where items are regularly plugged in/out are showing signs of overheating. I have checked my appliances and none are drawing an excessive load.

Bigtalker

Oh gosh! This all sounds a little scary! I think I might be best placed getting a professional in. The house is only 4 years old with a modern fuse board. Nothing has been re wired or changed in anyway. We did have to change the fuse switch above our cooker as it kept blowing. The electrician at the time said it was a cheap fuse and thats why it was going.

It is true that anything I leave plugged in doesnt melt (airwirck plug ins and the sonar repellent plug ins and lamps and TV etc), just the one off stuff.

wildefalcon

Oh, God.

Celtic tiger wiring.

If you are luck it's only cheap sockets - though I doubt it. Stuff melts because too much current goes through it. Cheap sockets are usually good enough for the job - I've used them on heavy duty applications and have had no problems.


Get a decent experienced electrician in - quick! Show them the sockets, ask them to check the ring main is complete.

bbam

wildefalcon wrote: »

Oh, God.

Celtic tiger wiring.

There'll be more of these coming in the future me thinks...

Give the hoovering a break until it's all checked out.....

cabledude

There could be a couple of things wrong.

1 I don't think it's your appliance. Unless you share a hoover with your neighbour.

2 The problem is obviously with your electrics and indeed your neighbours electrics.

3 You will need to get a RECI or Safe Electric contractor to take a look at your house. Get two or three to call. More than one opinion will be needed.

4 The problem may be undersized wiring. Ring mains for domsetic sockets should use 2.5 mm Twin & Earth cables. Blue and Brown wires with a smaller bare copper wire between the blue/brown. If the cables used are 1.5 mm you are going to have to replace the lot.

5 But hopefully for you it's cheap fixtures and fittings. Switches, roses sockets breakers could be to blame. Your electrician will also check your MCB's and the RCD. He/She should also check the rating on the main switch fuse. If the sockets are cheap imports you will need to replace them with BS approved items. Get your contractor to ensure only up to standard materials are used.

Don't be concerned. Get an electrician a.s.a.p.

Best of luck.

delly

Moved from DIY to electrical

brightspark

@OP Some of the posts here are misleading and though they mention problems that the posters may have experienced are very unlikely to be relevant to your situation.

The fault you have describe is localised heating of the plug/socket.

A bad connection whether within the socket or as a result of loose terminations causes the plug-socket to have a high resistance.

Current squared multiplied by resistance equals watts
watts in this case equals HEAT which causes the melting described


The fault you described is not caused by

• undersized wiring, (the wires would heat not the plug/socket)
• Switches, roses sockets breakers (again they would heat not the plug socket)
• broken ring (theoretically the same as undersized wiring)
• Stuff melts because too much current goes through it (a domestic vacuum cleaner is hardly likely to be drawing in excess of 13A and still be working!)

(of course, given the poor standard of some electrical work I've seen, it's possible that some of the above issues exist in your house as well, but they won't cause your plugs to melt!)

In my opinion the fault is either a batch of bad sockets installed in your house (and your neighbours) or lots of poorly terminated sockets (which were probably all installed by the same person).

The fact that the airwirck plug ins and the sonar repellent plug ins and lamps and TV arn't affected may be due to the fact that all those items are relatively low wattage items so the I^2 R loss across the plug-socket is insignificant.

Zimmerframe

brightspark wrote: »

In my opinion the fault is either a batch of bad sockets installed in your house (and your neighbours) or lots of poorly terminated sockets (which were probably all installed by the same person).

Exactly what that man said, there is nothing, other than junk sockets or loose terminations in the socket box that could cause your issues.

xxtallaghtxx

I'd get onto who ever you and neighbour bought your houses from too. Together. If its sub standard work there should be some kind of come back like a "warranty" if you know what im trying to say.

exaisle

.....or seriously low voltage....

paddymick

The problem is cheap crappy sockets,I`d take a stab in the dark and say they are Powermaster..Ive came across alot of them giving the same trouble and my wholesaler had to stop selling them..

I wouldnt think there is anything wrong with your hoover either.

brightspark

exaisle wrote: »

.....or seriously low voltage....

Can you please explain how low voltage can cause plugs to melt?

Bigtalker

Ok guys - thanks for all this. I spoke to my neighbour. She had an electrician in and he said it was cheap sockets and replaced them all for her. We have one coming this Sat to have a look.

Dissapointing as this year alone we have had to replace our 4 year old gas bioler, found issues in our roof, sanded down the windows as the paint was peeling off and now the wiring. Whats next?!!

Celtic Tiger house building!!

brightspark

Bigtalker wrote: »

Ok guys - thanks for all this. I spoke to my neighbour. She had an electrician in and he said it was cheap sockets and replaced them all for her. We have one coming this Sat to have a look.

Dissapointing as this year alone we have had to replace our 4 year old gas bioler, found issues in our roof, sanded down the windows as the paint was peeling off and now the wiring. Whats next?!!

Celtic Tiger house building!!

don't forget to change any damaged plugs before using them in the new sockets

Bruthal

Bigtalker wrote: »

All,

Very quick one - my hoover is destroying all the sockets in my house. the plau keeps melting and burning the socket turning it brown. We replaced the plug and its happening on the new one. I mentioned this to my neighbour and she said the same thing is happening with her hair dryer and straighteners.

Is this something that known to happen for a specific reason? it sounds to me like its the sockets in our houses. They were built 4 years ago.

Thats purely and simply rubbish sockets. The contacts are not gripping the plug pins properly. Replace all sockets is likely needed.

Edit. Just seen post #20.

And as brightspark said, replace any plugs that have any signs of burnt or overheated pins.

cabledude

If the contractor used cheap sockets, it would be reasonable to assume that they possibly used cheap stuff everywhere. I would not like to have cheap electrical items or fittings in my house. Quite obviously cheap roses are not going to make your sockets heat up!!!! Or MCB's for that matter.

But the point I was trying to make is that cheap materials may have been used generally across your installation. When you get the electrician in, get him to check absolutely everything. Also get him to check the whole fuse board to make sure everything is tightened properly. Most of them will do this but then again the lad who did the job in the first place wasn't very concerned about what he put in. My mothers house had an extention built on 4 years ago and they fitted an extra electric shower. When the contractor installed the contactor for the shower he did not tighten the nuetral wire enough. After a while the shower stopped working. When I looked in to the board the contactor was burnt jet black. Frightening. All because this lad was weak on the screwdriver.

Best of luck...

cabledude

brightspark wrote: »

@OP Some of the posts here are misleading and though they mention problems that the posters may have experienced are very unlikely to be relevant to your situation.

The fault you have describe is localised heating of the plug/socket.

A bad connection whether within the socket or as a result of loose terminations causes the plug-socket to have a high resistance.

Current squared multiplied by resistance equals watts
watts in this case equals HEAT which causes the melting described


The fault you described is not caused by

• undersized wiring, (the wires would heat not the plug/socket)
  

Hypothetically speaking, if 1.5 T&E were used in error couldn't this cause the wiring and in turn the sockets to heat???

M cebee

cabledude wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if 1.5 T&E were used in error couldn't this cause the wiring and in turn the sockets to heat???

no can't see it happening

it's usually just a local socket /plug issue

3kw heating loads and the like don't help much

Bruthal

brightspark wrote: »

Can you please explain how low voltage can cause plugs to melt?

Probably heard that motors can trip overloads if the voltage is a little low. That can happen on a loaded motor alright, as the slip increases with reduced voltage. Would have no bearing on sockets though, even with motors plugged in. Meaningless.

wildefalcon

robbie7730 wrote: »

Probably heard that motors can trip overloads if the voltage is a little low. That can happen on a loaded motor alright, as the slip increases with reduced voltage. Would have no bearing on sockets though, even with motors plugged in. Meaningless.

If the voltage drops, and the wattage remains the same, then the current (amps) increases.

Higher amps, higher temperatures.

brightspark

wildefalcon wrote: »

robbie7730 wrote: »

Probably heard that motors can trip overloads if the voltage is a little low. That can happen on a loaded motor alright, as the slip increases with reduced voltage. Would have no bearing on sockets though, even with motors plugged in. Meaningless.

If the voltage drops, and the wattage remains the same, then the current (amps) increases.

Higher amps, higher temperatures.

Even if you were correct in saying that the wattage stays the same with a consequential increase in current.....the fuse in the plug top should blow before the plug top melts. I have seen 13A plugs used on welders, complete with gutter bolt instead of the fuse, that show no sign of melting.

M cebee

just a bad lot of sockets here by the look of it


-if you've a 3kw heating load and you drop from 230 to 220v

the wattage drops from 3000 to 2750 watts if i recall

-current also drops

-a 1.5 t+e wouldn't affect plug really just voltage drop and readings

Bruthal

wildefalcon wrote: »

If the voltage drops, and the wattage remains the same, then the current (amps) increases.

Higher amps, higher temperatures.

Thats completely incorrect. When voltage reduces, the resistance of the item or appliance is what remains the same, so the amps reduce, and so the wattage is less.

l will use an immersion as an example.

If its 3kw rated at 230v, then it will only be 3kw at the 230v.
3000w/230v = 13 amps

230v/13A = 17.7 ohms. This is fixed, and is what rates the immersion at 3kw only at 230v

Same immersion At 240v
240v/17.7 ohms = 13.6 amps
240v x 13.6A = 3.26 kw.

Now connect 115v to it.
115V/17.7 ohms = 6.2 amps

115 x 6.5 amps = 747 watts. Notice when the voltage is halved, the watts will be 1 quarter. If voltage is doubled to a fixed resistance, the wattage will be 4 times higher.

For an immersion to be 3kw at 115 volts.
3000w/115v = 26 amps
115v/26A = 4.42 ohms.

So the 3kw 115 volt immersion would be 1 quarter of the resistance of the 230v 3kw one.

So halving the voltage to a 230v 3kw appliance does not keep the appliance at 3kw and have a higher current to compensate. A 115v 3kw appliance will have a resistance 4 times lower than a 230v one, so it is designed to be 3kw only at the 115v.

Connect this 115v immersion to 230v and it would be 12kw, until it burnt out.

If the above 3kw 115v immersion was fed from a 230v/115v transformer, the secondary side would have 26 amps flowing into the immersion, and the primary side would have 13 amps, with both sides operating at 3kw. So the higher voltage side has a lower current flow. This is what can cause the confusion you are possibly having.

maxfresh

Get a sparks to check out the wiring ,ive seen sockets wired in 1.5 flex :eek: