Do we underestimate America's influence

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

There has been a fascination with America and all things American for decades, I think it's to do with the way America has;

a) initially sold itself to the rest of the world through Hollywood

b) been sold to us at home as the best thing since sliced bread by the Irish/Italian/German etc diaspora living there

c) dominated for so long economically, which naturally leads to innovation and the consequent flooding of the market of American brands (see Coca Cola, Apple, Nike, Ford, New York Yankees, McDonald's etc)

The fact that we are so over-exposed to American media and culture is also driven by the fact that the US is an English-speaking country of over 300 million people and we are a small country with no major television/movie industry, similiar to how Portugal would be exposed to Brazilian media.

Stiffler2

Robdude wrote: »

Can you elaborate?

Yes of course, Chrome is $h!t. $h!t can be found in a toilet and travels the sewer system to the ocean where it decomposes. Exactly what should happen to chrome.

But less of that & back on topic.

pajunior

It's obvious America has a huge influence on Irish/British society and to a lesser extent Europe and to a lesser extent the rest of the world.

There is a reason we always have these sort of threads about America but not China or Russia and it doesn't have anything to do with their lack of influence.

Best movies: Complete opinion but many would agree that the best of America is as good as anything out there.
Best music: As above.
Television: As above but i would like to add that it depends on the genre. Their best dramas are the best out there. Documentaries are decent but it's comedys where most people mark them down. I would do the same with the obvious exception of the simpsons (seasons 3 - 10).
Literature: Improving but not near the best yet
Science: Was behind the soviets for a while but is now lightyears ahead of everyone else.
Business/Commerce: Not even debatable.

Da Shins Kelly

pajunior wrote: »

Literature: Improving but not near the best yet

I dunno about that - Cormac McCarthy, Philip Roth, Flannery O'Connor, Edgar Allen Poe, Robert Frost, Mark Twain, William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, Ezra Pound, Allen Ginsberg, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Nathaniel Hawthorne, John Updike, J.D Salinger, Sylvia Plath, Kurt Vonnegut and many more.

I think the Americans are well able to hold their own in terms of literature, and a lot of them have very unique styles. I think it's very obvious when you're reading an American's work. Sure, they didn't produce Yeats, Shakespeare or Chekov, but they've produced their fair share of great, great authors and highly influential works of literature.

foxyboxer

Thread title ought to be

Do we misunderestimate America's influence?

Robdude

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Yes of course, Chrome is $h!t. $h!t can be found in a toilet and travels the sewer system to the ocean where it decomposes. Exactly what should happen to chrome.

But less of that & back on topic.

Chrome might be crap; but it's crap that is largely indistinguishable from any other web browser you can find.

I don't see how any rational person could hold the opinion that one browser that is so similar to all of the other browsers can be so bad to call it $h!t in a completely unrelated thread....while being unable to give any sort of justification for their opinion.

pajunior

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I dunno about that - Cormac McCarthy, Philip Roth, Flannery O'Connor, Edgar Allen Poe, Robert Frost, Mark Twain, William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, Ezra Pound, Allen Ginsberg, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Nathaniel Hawthorne, John Updike, J.D Salinger, Sylvia Plath, Kurt Vonnegut and many more.

I think the Americans are well able to hold their own in terms of literature, and a lot of them have very unique styles. I think it's very obvious when you're reading an American's work. Sure, they didn't produce Yeats, Shakespeare or Chekov, but they've produced their fair share of great, great authors and highly influential works of literature.

Sorry maybe "not near the best" was exaggerated.

I simply meant that very few people would say that they are the best. But I agree 100% with you, American literature is underestimated quite a lot.

castletownman

Just one look at the mannerisms etc of the inhabitants of Dublin 4 is a prime example of the influence of America in this country. Cannot be underestimated!

Da Shins Kelly

pajunior wrote: »

Sorry maybe "not near the best" was exaggerated.

I simply meant that very few people would say that they are the best. But I agree 100% with you, American literature is underestimated quite a lot.

I would agree with that. When people think of great literature I think they tend to think immediately of Britain, Ireland and Russia. The Americans are underestimated, but at the moment they have more truly great writers than anywhere else in the world and I think a lot of people would list American works as their favourite books, maybe not even realising that it was written by an American.

Jopari87

The US has been the predominant power for most of the 20th century so of course its influence is huge.

But if we were having this conversation 200 years ago we would be discussing British influence, 400 years ago Spanish influence, 2000 years ago Roman influence etc.

And likewise in the future it will probably be China or one of the other emerging powers that will have the greatest influence.

pragmatic1

Not just entertainment OP. Look at all the scientific advancements and inventions that the US has given to the world. Miles ahead.

Lirange

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I would agree with that. When people think of great literature I think they tend to think immediately of Britain, Ireland and Russia. The Americans are underestimated, but at the moment they have more truly great writers than anywhere else in the world and I think a lot of people would list American works as their favourite books, maybe not even realising that it was written by an American.

Britain and Ireland had a head start. America has only been a country for 200 odd years and it took time to develop it's peculiar identity. Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, etc were before America's time. But yes I agree their literature is underestimated. I was upset your list didn't include Hunter Thompson or John Steinbeck. :P

Yakult

Their new national anthem.
Wish ours was as good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

iregk

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Not just entertainment OP. Look at all the scientific advancements and inventions that the US has given to the world. Miles ahead.

Please do list some of them.

RichieC

iregk wrote: »

Please do list some of them.

Al gore gave us the intertubes... and America invented the A bomb and rocket tech :pac:

SamHarris

Batsy wrote: »

That's just a matter of opinion. It's only the British and Irish and other English-speaking countries who watch a lot of American films. If you went to Continental Europe most of them watch their own movies. Most French people you'd meet would say that French movies are the best in the world.



American television is a load of tripe, punctuated by adverts every 90 seconds. The shows we get from America are only the very best they produce. If we were to get a wider range of their shows then you'd see how dire US telly really is.



Again, that's a matter of opinion. America didn't give the world the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Judas Priest, Led Zeppelin, The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Spandau Ballet, The Stone Roses, Blur, Oasis, the Arctic Monkeys, Radiohead, Pulp, Happy Mondays, Ocean Colour Scene, Supergrass, Suede, Cast, Elastica, and The Darkness (it was Britain that gave the world those greats bands)

Accoring to the democracy that is the market place, he has a point. In my personal opinion you get nearly all the best there and a good dolop of the worst too.

And yes, people do. I remember not to recently someone saying how Americans never/gave did anything good, all the whilst standing in his jeans and t shirts, beside his computer powered by home electricity connected to the internet, charging his iPod. We were probably near a lightbulb too.


Its so dominante its almost invisible, I remember distinctly as a kid thinking about Nestle as a foregin company because stuff like Kellogs and Coke were so ubiquitous that I assumed they were Irish.

Even people who "hate" the place and level criticism after criticism often dont realise their criticism's are generated in the States and exproted, like 911 consiracy theories or health care problems.

tjones64

its hard not to be influenced by THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD

SamHarris

Robdude wrote: »

I always get a chuckle out of these threads.

In the US, nobody ever starts threads like this. I think that, by itself, says something. And, whenever I see these threads, it becomes the 'US' verse the world.

People list off all sorts of great things other countries have done. X invented this. And Y has this.

Which *individual* country has more global influence than the United States - is a much better question. And I'm not talking about specific niche influences like 'Country Z *dominates* the world's supply of coca-bean exports'. But I'm talking across the board. And, I'm not talking about 'since the dawn of time'. Keep it relevant to today; say the last 40-50 years. And, none of this 'Well, Country A played an important role in the history of Country B, so really, Country A should get credit for everything Country B has done. That's a weak and silly argument', and if you apply it enough, you'd find pretty much everyone came from some tribe somewhere and countries mean nothing.

If you had to *honestly* name one country for having the largest global influence what would it be? And why.

Second on this. For example someone watched City of God so now they think Brazil makes better movies, or they watched the US Shamless, it was crap so they ruin good shows.

If you got 10 of your friends to list their top 10 movies, and if 50% was not made in the states I would be absolutly shocked. Ditto with any other form of entertainment, or their favourite technology or (to a lesser extent maybe) music.

It is not that their is another country that competes with its influence, its the rest of the world combined including ireland may have a similiar affect on your likes, dislikes and the things you consume.

SamHarris

iregk wrote: »

Please do list some of them.

Um... powered flight, home electricity, the internet, digital computers, the television, the telephone, the radio... Im just moving around my room here...

Napper Hawkins

SamHarris wrote: »

Um... powered flight, home electricity, the internet, digital computers, the television, the telephone, the radio... Im just moving around my room here...

Also, Slayer \m/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv5_X_Y5D-0

Jesus Wept

Dotrel wrote: »

Their waterboarding is second to none.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCeleRDPmrw

I'd love if a massive team burst in just then and waterboarded everyone in the audience that clapped, which sounded like the majority. :pac:

Da Shins Kelly

Lirange wrote: »

Britain and Ireland had a head start. America has only been a country for 200 odd years and it took time to develop it's peculiar identity. Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, etc were before America's time. But yes I agree their literature is underestimated. I was upset your list didn't include Hunter Thompson or John Steinbeck. :P

Haha! I just named the first that came to mind, that happen to be among my favourite authors. But, it's testament to the strength of American literature that everyone can name at least one that they love.

I agree about Britain and Ireland having a head start, although most of our great writers would have been active in and around the same time as a lot of America's great writers. I think the mix of cultures and the varying ethnic backgrounds of America's writers is what gives it its identity.

iregk

SamHarris wrote: »

iregk wrote: »

Please do list some of them.

Um... powered flight, home electricity, the internet, digital computers, the television, the telephone, the radio... Im just moving around my room here...

Powered flight - ill give you that assuming you mean the wright brothers. O course the French had powered lighter than air flights years before.
Home electricity very much a contested topic. Most believe it was actually Johan wilcke that did this years before Edison.
The Internet - again this has Long since been contested by the English.
Computers - modern history yes however there are still the computer artificacts uncovered in northern Russia which are back some couple of hundred years. Origin, unknown. Also it is widely believed that digital computers were created first and with programmable language in London!
Television - a German invention
Telephone - the one invented by a scot in Canada?
Radio - a cross Italian / croatian invention.

1 out of 7. Not bad.

SamHarris

Double post.

SamHarris

iregk wrote: »

Powered flight - ill give you that assuming you mean the wright brothers. O course the French had powered lighter than air flights years before.
Home electricity very much a contested topic. Most believe it was actually Johan wilcke that did this years before Edison.
The Internet - again this has Long since been contested by the English.
Computers - modern history yes however there are still the computer artificacts uncovered in northern Russia which are back some couple of hundred years. Origin, unknown. Also it is widely believed that digital computers were created first and with programmable language in London!
Television - a German invention
Telephone - the one invented by a scot in Canada?
Radio - a cross Italian / croatian invention.

1 out of 7. Not bad.

The first networked computers were in the states, even the name is taken from Darpanet. So your contention is NO ONE invented

Yes digital computers. This not an invention now :rolleyes:

No, by Alexander Graham Bell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio wrong again.

Ill give you TV, but then I was just hopping around the room to prove a point, that if you cant think of American inventions you must not be thinking very hard.

More nobel prizes in sceince have been won by the US than the rest of the world combined. If your trying to convince yourself that it is somehow techonologically backwards/ has never developed anything then your reality and the reality the rest of us inhabit has very little in common.

K-9

SamHarris wrote: »

The first networked computers were in the states, even the name is taken from Darpanet. So your contention is NO ONE invented

Yes digital computers. This not an invention now :rolleyes:

No, by Alexander Graham Bell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio wrong again.

Ill give you TV, but then I was just hopping around the room to prove a point, that if you cant think of American inventions you must not be thinking very hard.

More nobel prizes in sceince have been won by the US than the rest of the world combined. If your trying to convince yourself that it is somehow techonologically backwards/ has never developed anything then your reality and the reality the rest of us inhabit has very little in common.

I think his point was the Americans just built on technology developed by Brits!

I wouldn't think the American influence is underestimated. Britain I'd say, pound for pound , probably is as influential.

Though with globalism the distinction is more and more blurred.

iregk

SamHarris wrote: »

The first networked computers were in the states, even the name is taken from Darpanet. So your contention is NO ONE invented

Yes digital computers. This not an invention now :rolleyes:

No, by Alexander Graham Bell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio wrong again.

Ill give you TV, but then I was just hopping around the room to prove a point, that if you cant think of American inventions you must not be thinking very hard.

More nobel prizes in sceince have been won by the US than the rest of the world combined. If your trying to convince yourself that it is somehow techonologically backwards/ has never developed anything then your reality and the reality the rest of us inhabit has very little in common.

Like I said open to discussion on the first one. many claim it was actually in the UK.

I'm not sure what you're meaning by digital computer and rolling eyes so i'll have to pass on that.

You do realise AG Bell was born in Edinburgh and lived in Canada where he invented the telephone? That the Bell you're talking about? They don't call Brantford, Ontario telephone city for no reason!

As far as radio is concerned are you talking signal or receiver as there is a difference!

I'm not trying to convince anyone that the US has never created anything. Far from it they have created many wonderful things. While we are at it lets look at some more. Aids being one. That was a great invention by the US. Designed to try and cull the population of another resource rich continent. Nuclear craters, that's another one they invented circa 1945 in what at the time was known as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

To be honest we could be here all day pointing out inventions and who really created them and I've no intention of debating the origin of everything on this earth as I have work to do. What America has given us is publicity and marketing. They do both better than any one else on the planet and have used them mostly for their own benefit. Most, practically all of what you said were american inventions were invented outside of the states but claimed by them.

Anyway back on to the op yes American has a huge influence on the world right now but the history of the world shows us that this is cyclical. Over the past 70 years we are in a period of US influence mainly due to the breakup and restructuring of many of the worlds regions in the same time frame. Before the US you had a huge British influence on the world. Before them a huge European and Russian influence. Artistically, politically and philosophically Europe and Russia had the majority influence. At present we are on the downward slope of US influence and coming into the Asian (china driven) influence. Ask this question again in 50-100 years time and your answer will be very different.

What concerns me is that while influences of the past such as Greek mythology and philosophy, beautiful european and russian music, european art and sculpture, asian and middle eastern foods is what shaped the world. The US influence has been a period dominated by greed, image obsession, brand obsession and consumption. It pales in comparison.

Oh btw Sam you may as well quote a link from the sun or the daily mail as a wiki pedia link. That ceased to be a reliable source of information about 5 years ago.

44leto

There has never been a civilisation on Earth who had such influence and reach of America. Their reach is such that they can effect any part of the globe politically, militarily, scientifically, culturally and economically, they are the only remaining superpower and at present are without challenge.

But I believe their power is waning although China would still not have its power and military might its gaining it rapidly. Although I read a lot of anti American rhetoric in this thread, I think we will look back on the American era as a kind of golden age. I don't think China will be as moral or as restraining with their power.

iregk

44leto wrote: »

I don't think China will be as moral or as restraining with their power.

America moral and restraining with their power. I've heard it all now!

/Thread.

parker kent

iregk wrote: »

I know you said lets not start at the dawn of time but I can't resist. You'd have to say the greeks. They invented democracy and central heating systems. How many people would be dead if it wasn't or that last one?

The version of democracy in Ancient Greece is vastly different to what we understand democracy to be. They are not really related.

Anyway, America clearly has a massive influence on the world. Denying it to seem cool or interesting just makes people look foolish. Plus this is not some willy waving contest where one country can be proved to be definitively more influential than another. Some countries influence the world at various points in history, America is one of them.

pajunior

iregk wrote: »

Powered flight - ill give you that assuming you mean the wright brothers. O course the French had powered lighter than air flights years before.
Home electricity very much a contested topic. Most believe it was actually Johan wilcke that did this years before Edison.
The Internet - again this has Long since been contested by the English.
Computers - modern history yes however there are still the computer artificacts uncovered in northern Russia which are back some couple of hundred years. Origin, unknown. Also it is widely believed that digital computers were created first and with programmable language in London!
Television - a German invention
Telephone - the one invented by a scot in Canada?
Radio - a cross Italian / croatian invention.

1 out of 7. Not bad.

Ah come on, no-one cares who invent the very very first instance of an invention. Why not give Charles Babbage his due for the very first programable computer in the 18th century. Yes Britain invented the first ever electric computer but because it was a military secret all computers in the future were based from the original American computer. Since we are talking about influence the British (Enigma?) had 0 while the American had huge influence.
The internet is 100% an American invention. CERN and others did a huge amount of work developing it and of course creating the WWW but the internet itself is American.

Think of the space race, yes it was German Scientists and Russian will that sent up the first rockets but no-one except for the Americans would be able to land a man on the moon.

The first instance of an invention is important but making that invention work in the real world is what creates influence.

That's why Xerox are nobodys and Microsft and Apple rule the tech world.

parker kent

pajunior wrote: »

That's why Xerox are nobodys and Microsft and Apple rule the tech world.

Absolutely. I agree with all your post but this bit sums up the pointlessness of identifying the very first instance of something. Sure it is noteworthy and historically important, but culturally that make an invention viable for mass consumption as more important in terms of influence.

SamHarris

pajunior wrote: »

Ah come on, no-one cares who invent the very very first instance of an invention. Why not give Charles Babbage his due for the very first programable computer in the 18th century. Yes Britain invented the first ever electric computer but because it was a military secret all computers in the future were based from the original American computer. Since we are talking about influence the British (Enigma?) had 0 while the American had huge influence.
The internet is 100% an American invention. CERN and others did a huge amount of work developing it and of course creating the WWW but the internet itself is American.

Think of the space race, yes it was German Scientists and Russian will that sent up the first rockets but no-one except for the Americans would be able to land a man on the moon.

The first instance of an invention is important but making that invention work in the real world is what creates influence.

That's why Xerox are nobodys and Microsft and Apple rule the tech world.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/11/innovation?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/dc/whereinnovationlies This is considered the best measure of "new" technologies, taking into account their range of use.