Information evening for new post primary school Maynooth

Orion

The admissions policies for the two school were ratified by the Governing Authority last night. Closing dates for applications is 6/12.

One of the requests to the Minister was for a single enrolment policy and the Minister indicated no opposition to this so this is another about face.

If you have kids in 6th class I personally would only apply to MPPS and ignore the MCC. If enough people do that it will force the issue.

Orion

2 articles about this in the Champion.

Front page about the new chair of the governing authority -John Malone. Call me cynical but it smacks of a political appointment. Former secretary general of the department of agriculture, director of kbc bank, chairman of the audit committee at the department of the taoiseach. No experience in education however.
Page 2 has the article "Bitterness deepens as parents divided over two school proposal". Contains details of the meeting on Monday and quotes from parents expressing anger over this nonsense. The ETB are blaming the minister. But the minister told the parents delegation that we were getting what we wanted. So somebody is wrong. The main point is that divisions are already appearing which is what we've said all along would happen.

When I get to a pc I'll post an article written by an anthropologist in NUIM explaining why this two school model is a terrible idea from a community perspective.

Orion

The Minister's responses are now available:

Minister Ruairí Quinn

I propose to take questions 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79 and 80 together.

As the Deputy may be aware, I met with representatives of the parents'
associations from schools in the area referred to. The deputation put forward
the view that the new post-primary school being established in 2014 in the area
should be configured, along with the existing post-primary school into a
junior school / senior school model rather than as two separate fully vertical
schools.

I fully considered all aspects of this matter and I am of the view that the
schools can operate successfully as two vertical schools. I consider this to be
the optimum configuration for the two schools and indeed the best provision
that can be made for the pupils in the area.

The patron of the two post-primary schools in question has developed a specific
management structure for the new educational campus that will be constituted.
In this regard, it is proposed that a single Governing Authority be established
in order to guarantee to Parents/Guardians and Students a fair and equitable
enrolment policy for both schools and to ensure that the overall management of
the campus would be as cohesive and effective as possible. The Governing
Authority will be representative of the stakeholders from both schools together
with members of the patron body and will be under an independent Chairperson.
This authority would be established under the provisions of the Education and
Training Board Act 2013. Apart from the management of campus facilities, one
of the key core functions of the Governing authority will be to develop and
co-ordinate the overarching enrolment policy for both schools, following
appropriate consultation with the respective Boards of Management of both
schools and ensure that the policy is in keeping with the Education and
Training Board policy and Department guidelines. This function does not
supersede the powers conferred under the Education Act 1998 to the Boards of
Managements of the individual schools.

In addition to the establishment of the single Governing Authority, the Patron
will establish a Board of Management for each school. The functions of the
Schools and the Boards of Management are those described under the Education
Act 1998.

The pooling of resources of the two schools would mean the provision of the
widest possible range of subjects for the pupils in both schools. This will be
particularly important during the initial years of the establishment of the new
post-primary school and during the downsizing of the existing school. By
pooling the pupils from both schools, it will also be possible to offer a
subject in one school where the demand from both schools would bring the class
size to a viable number. It is envisaged that both schools will each cater for
up to 1,000 pupils ultimately.

The existing post-primary school in the area referred to is very highly
regarded locally. It is the intention of the patron that the new post-primary
school would replicate and achieve the high standards and success attained in
the existing school. The synergies generated by the new campus environment
should be a significant benefit to both schools towards building on the success
of the existing school and should assist them both in attaining high standards.
The management and governance structures for the Education Campus that have
been developed by the patron body as outlined, seek to ensure that the
necessary appropriate relationships and close co-operation will exist between
the two schools at all levels, from the Principals and the Boards of Management
through to the pupils and the staff.

With regard to diversity of choice for parents when establishing new schools,
my decision on patronage of the new school in question was influenced chiefly
by parental preferences. The new school will cater for pupils of all faiths,
backgrounds and belief systems and will be open to pupils of all primary
schools in the area.

My Department is liaising with the patron in relation to start-up accommodation
for the school.

A lot of this is just rehashing the letter he sent to Stagg in September. He doesn't answer the question about when he will communicate directly with the parent delegation. Parents called the meeting not Stagg - any answers should be addressed to them.

There are two things that jump out immediately.
1: one of the key core functions of the Governing authority will be to develop and co-ordinate the overarching enrolment policy for both schools
Yet the GA have issued 2 enrolment policies not one. This was in their presentation on Monday too - that they would have 2 enrolment policies and one overarching enrolment process. That is not the same thing as having a single policy for both schools.

2: The new school will cater for pupils of all faiths, backgrounds and belief systems and will be open to pupils of all primary schools in the area
This is exactly the policy of the MPPS. So why do we need the same thing twice?

Both of these just show that a) the Minister didn't listen to the parents or read the Jeffers report and b) that the GA/ETB don't give a $hit about the parents preferences.

L1011

Do the enrollment policies as they stand substantially differ? If so, have they justified why?

Orion

I'm still waiting to get a copy of them from the ETB. They have been very quick to antagonise parents but not so quick to give out information.

But one parent I spoke to told me she has no chance of getting in to MPPS with the policy as it is and doesn't want to MCC which she would get in to. So she's applied to Leixlip.

Orion

MYOB wrote: »

Do the enrollment policies as they stand substantially differ? If so, have they justified why?

They do substantially differ. I'll post them later - forgot to bring them to work to scan.

The battle is just beginning really. The campaign to change this is kicking off.

https://www.facebook.com/MaynoothSchoolsGroup
http://maynoothschoolsgroup.wordpress.com/

Orion

Interesting development today.

Minister said a school cannot be redesignated without departmental permission and has undertaken to make enquiries. Stagg asked a supplemental and asked for decision to be set aside.

I believe Stagg is releasing a statement today about it.

Orion

The transcript of the questions in the Dail today and the Ministers answers is on Catherine Murphys website. It's interesting reading.

In other news:

PUBLIC MEETING
Campaign for Junior-Senior Schools
8pm
Monday 2nd December
Glenroyal Hotel

We expect this to be very well attended. Hope to see some of you there.

Leaftlet attached. This will also be delivered around Maynooth this weekend.

Orion

Emmet Stagg and Catherine Murphy are on KFM in 15 minutes to talk about this.

L1011

Can you put up the gist of what's said, not in a position to listen to KFM here (what with working outside the service area, and for a different radio station...)

Orion

Stagg is defending the two school model. There are implications that the uniform will be the same but the FAQ that the VEC published says otherwise. He refers multiple times to the parents who are concerned about this as "a few agitators"! Nice dismissive language from a local representative. Well we'll see how many "agitators" turn up to the public meeting on Monday.

Murphy mentioned the public meeting and the concerns that parents have over the two school model.

Nothing really new to be honest.

Orion

There's a podcast of the segment.

http://kildaretoday.podomatic.com/

metalloa

Thank you for all the information Orion. If you have time will you post the enrollment policies of both schools. I listened to the exchange and Stagg's response is dreadful. Who is he trying to represent ?

Orion

I'm working from home today and no scanner. I'll bring them in tomorrow and post them up.

Call me Al

We were discussing this at the school today. Sadly the reaction among some who have older siblings in the existing school, or who had other family members attend it, was indifference because it wouldn't effect them.

Orion

It will affect them. While they'll get in to MPPS they will not be in the same school that is currently there. They will be in a campus situation where two schools will be competing with each other and there will be two groups of teenagers from different schools with all the division that that brings. To think that just because you may get into MPPS means that it's all rosy is naive.

Orion

Enrolment policies attached.

Moonbeam

MCC will be our only option based on the enrollment criteria and the Irish Stream.
MPPS accepts all faiths but it does not say it is multi denominational..:(
I can not understand why it has to be 2 schools:(

L1011

Moonbeam wrote: »

I can not understand why it has to be 2 schools:(

Zero legal precedent to strip a school's ethos. Unless someone can legally challenge MPPS's dodgy Catholic ethos (as a state-owned school, having a Catholic ethos is likely against the constitution - all other state-funded religious organisations are owned by a non-state body whereas MPPS is owned by Killdare/Wicklow ETB), a single school cannot happen.

The next best option would be retaining the two official schools but have a single enrollment policy with randomisation of which roll number you're assigned to. This would mean that kids would only be seperated for 'core' classes (when I was in MPPS, your class number was based on your English class) and would mix for the optional subjects. One uniform and one set of sports teams would further prevent issues. Initially it appeared this was what was being done but the enrollment policies differing means it won't be this cohesive at all.

Its likely, at least after JC, that there wouldn't be the >28 or whatever required for two classes in the Irish stream meaning that inherently the Irish stream has to be in one school or the other but if the other issues - uniform etc - were dealt with it'd be irrelevant anyway.

Orion

Moonbeam wrote: »

MPPS accepts all faiths but it does not say it is multi denominational..:(

Yes it does:

Maynooth Post Primary is a co-educational, multi-denominational and none, school with non selective entry

From www.mpps.ie

Orion

MYOB wrote: »

Zero legal precedent to strip a school's ethos. Unless someone can legally challenge MPPS's dodgy Catholic ethos (as a state-owned school, having a Catholic ethos is likely against the constitution - all other state-funded religious organisations are owned by a non-state body whereas MPPS is owned by Killdare/Wicklow ETB), a single school cannot happen.

It's not against the constitution at all (unfortunately). However people have asked and not been able to find anything whatsoever that designated MPPS as Catholic.

Tom Ashe, the founding principal, disputes this too. When the school was founded it was non-designated - something the DES accepts in a document on their website. At the time all students were Catholic and a Catholic chaplain was engaged. This does not make it a designated Catholic ethos school - it is just a school catering for the pupils in the school

When the demograph changed and students from Protestant schools enrolled they also employed a CoI chaplain. At that point Mass in the school was changed to an ecumenical service. And in later years a Presbyterian chaplain was appointed to cater for the growing number of that faith.

MPPS has shown over the years that it can grow and adapt to changing demographics within its walls. That would not be possible with a Catholic ethos being enforced.

When the DES or the ETB produce a document from 1971 designating MPPS as Catholic then I'll believe it. Until then - it's exactly what it says - Multi-denominational.

Orion

Well the ethos question had now been put to bed. In a written answer on Wednesday the minister said the school is a non designated community college which has a multi denominational ethos.

Finally!

Now I assume his enquiry into the etb handling of the enrolment policy will also include why he was originally told it was Catholic.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-11-27a.234

Call me Al

Yes it is, but Ruairí Quinn still does not answer the fundamental question that he has been repeatedly asked as to how he came to the conclusion that a twin school model would be best.

He just regurgitates the same comment that MPPS is well regarded and under good patronage, and that he is confident that the twin school model is the best.

I'm delighted for him that he's so confident living over there in Sourh county Dublin, where his decision will have zero impact on his constituents, but we as parents who will be sending our children there, need more transparency than we are getting when coming to this conclusion. I am certainly far from confident. People need and are entitled to an explanation of the process he used.

I also think that the inclusion of a policy whereby children of past pupils are second in line to be enrolled is discriminatory, but thats beside the point right now.

L1011

Interesting that FF took an interest in it with Maynooth never having been much of an FF town.

They seriously need to sort out the admissions policy to reinforce the idea of it being "one school" to the public and I suspect this will be sufficient for most people.

Orion

I'd say it was passed to their education spokesman by a local FF rep.

Orion

Reminder - the public meeting is tonight in the Glenroyal if any of you can make it. From the word around town and surrounding areas it's going to be a full house so get there early.

Moonbeam

i can't make it as 2 of the kids are asleep but hope it goes well.

Orion

The meeting went very well. Just under 500 people attended and the mood was overwhelming positive in favour of the campaign for the junior/senior model. Various politicians also indicated support - Murphy, Martin Grehan PbP, Reada Cronin (SF), Naoise O'Cearuil (FF). No government party members spoke at all. Senan Griffin was there but he was the only Labour or FG rep to even turn up. One of the reporters told us that is all his time reporting in North Kildare this was one of the largest, if not the largest, public meeting ever.

Format was simple enough. Teresa Murray spoke briefly about what the meeting was about. Then we played an excerpt from the Minister's interview on KFM where he states that the Junior Senior model is rare globally. We refuted that with a live video link up from Dr. Jamie Saris who is doing a fellowship in Vienna. He is a product of this type of system and it is in use successfully in North America, UK, Australia and other countries. A parent in the audience from Japan also stated that this type of model is standard over there and they seem to be doing alright

Finally Teresa asked the meeting if we had a mandate to continue to campaign for this and it was an overwhelming show of support.

There is a transcript of Dr. Saris' speech available here

Teresa is also on KFM this morning at 9:25 and people from the meeting have started emailing national media outlets to raise the profile of this.

Orion

Just got word this evening that planning permission has been granted for the Maynooth Education Campus. So that's that stumbling block out of the way.

Now the battle recommences to get the single school model that we want.

lordgoat

Orion wrote: »

Just got word this evening that planning permission has been granted for the Maynooth Education Campus. So that's that stumbling block out of the way.

Now the battle recommences to get the single school model that we want.

Where is this campus going to be exactly? I keep hearing different places on the Moyglare road?