BUDGET 2012

Stiffler2

So AH's, give me your idea's of what you think we can all expect from Budget 2012. I expect but hope I'm wrong that the following will be increased :

Smokes -
Alcohol - - > My 2 achilles heels :eek:


I'm also hearing rumours of a proposed Sugar Tax
New Property Tax
New Water Tax

Has anyone else heard of anything regarding the budget for 2012, any increases in anything else or any new taxes that aren't above ??

Has anyone heard of any leaks as last year the budget was leaked a few weeks early by someone.

Will Petrol be increased ? Will Income Tax be raised etc. etc..

Elmer Blooker

I've heard leaks that there will be a water tax.

Let the bears pay the bear tax.

talkinyite

I'm not paying.

My name is URL

There should be cuts and tax increases across the board.. just not for me.

smk89

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I've heard leaks that there will be a water tax.

If the money collected goes on improving water infastructure and only that I approve. It's a scarse resource despite falling from the sky

Turtyturd

Stupidity tax for everyone who thinks 'Blast ... with piss' is a funny response to anything.

Biggins

Expect pain.

Galtee

I for one will not be paying a property tax. I've already paid a large amount of stamp duty on my home so they can sing for their property tax.

mathie

talkinyite wrote: »

I'm not paying.

The Keyboard Warrior Tax?

mathie

Turtyturd wrote: »

Stupidity tax for everyone who thinks 'Blast ... with piss' is a funny response to anything.

This comment.
Your username.

The defense rests.

irishgeo

Stiffler2 wrote: »

So AH's, give me your idea's of what you think we can all expect from Budget 2012. I expect but hope I'm wrong that the following will be increased :

Smokes -
Alcohol - - > My 2 achilles heels :eek:


I'm also hearing rumours of a proposed Sugar Tax
New Property Tax
New Water Tax

Has anyone else heard of anything regarding the budget for 2012, any increases in anything else or any new taxes that aren't above ??

Has anyone heard of any leaks as last year the budget was leaked a few weeks early by someone.

Will Petrol be increased ? Will Income Tax be raised etc. etc..

the dreaded carbon tax will increase which means, petrol diesel , home heating oil etc will all go up.

i expect that DIRT tax ill go up, thats tax on any interest you make on savings.

cant see them touching income tax or credits but as already said.

property tax. water tax, **** tax(ie tax on people's **** when it goes into a septic tank rather than a public sewage scheme.

Stiffler2

Yes I would also like to confirm that I have heard of a new Septic tank tax.

I would also love to stop paying the TV License & Property tax if it's comes in.

I can certainly tell you there will be no water metre on my house but that would only reallistically work if every Irish Citizen decided they weren't going to pay the property tax.

But I've gone off course here, Any other taxes from any1 ?

Biggins

Expect a minimum set price for certain types of alcohol sales.

talkinyite

mathie wrote: »

The Keyboard Warrior Tax?

The water tax. I consider access to clean water a basic human right so they can go **** themselves.

My name is URL

They should introduce a 1 cent tax on text messages. It'd raise over €60,000,000 per year.

deisedave

Biggins wrote: »

Expect a minimum set price for certain types of alcohol sales.

??

Do you mean that larger for example cant be sold below a certain price or cheaper in bulk.

Galtee

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Yes I would also like to confirm that I have heard of a new Septic tank tax.

I would also love to stop paying the TV License & Property tax if it's comes in.

I can certainly tell you there will be no water metre on my house but that would only reallistically work if every Irish Citizen decided they weren't going to pay the property tax.

But I've gone off course here, Any other taxes from any1 ?

I will not be allowing anyone access to my home to install a water meter either.

Biggins

deisedave wrote: »

??

Do you mean that larger for example cant be sold below a certain price or cheaper in bulk.

Yes - and it looks like the bully's in VFI, etc are going to get away with it.

See:
* http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-publicans-call-for-end-to-cut-price-booze-259238-Oct2011/

* http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-the-government-set-a-minimum-price-for-alcohol-188252-Jul2011/

* http://www.thejournal.ie/cheap-supermarket-alcohol-should-be-doubled-in-price-188225-Jul2011/

Stiffler2

deisedave wrote: »

??

Do you mean that larger for example cant be sold below a certain price or cheaper in bulk.

That is correct as well. A new policy will be introduced so that Alcohol will have a set minumum price which means if an offo sells a can of beer for say 1 euro and the new policy say the minumum price is €1.50 then the offo will have to raise it's price to €1.50 instead. This also includes any "special offers" or bulk sales which is unfortunate.

You can probably blame the Vintners association / pub trade for that one.

mathie

talkinyite wrote: »

The water tax. I consider access to clean water a basic human right so they can go **** themselves.

Try living in India.

Wetai

Ireland's like Springfield when they hosted the Radioactive Man movie.

seamus

Galtee wrote: »

I will not be allowing anyone access to my home to install a water meter either.

What they'll do is apply a flat-rate water charge for anyone without a water meter attached their home, and offer a tax rebate for the cost of fitting the water meter. Over the long-term, it will work out much more expensive to pay the flat-rate than use the meter.

It will also not be possible to sell or rent a property without a water meter fitted and properly calibrated/checked by the relevant authority in the previous 12 months.

Initial rumblings at the moment are that all of these property-related taxes will be consolidated in a single charge. So property tax, water tax, TV licence, sewage tax, etc etc. It will effectively be a "rate" that you pay for your use of public facilities in general, coupled with a property tax, meaning that most people pay around €500/year. But that won't be this year, and maybe not next year. It'll be introduced in the interests of "consolidating" taxes and making them less confusing, after introducing 3 or 4 separate property charges in the space of two years. It'll also be a fiver cheaper than the separate charges so people feel good about it.

This year we'll see a VAT rate increase. 22% maybe. And probably some increse in import duties. We can't spend our way out of a recession. We can only earn money from somewhere else, so they'll aim to lower any taxes which affect exporters and foreign investment.

Cigs will see 10c thrown on. Alcohol won't see an overall increase though it looks like this "minimum price" will get in :rolleyes:
Don't know about fuel. Any increase in fuel makes exports more expensive.
Although the government promised the dole would be untouched, they will leave it alone and cut a huge amount of other social payments.

Biggins

Stiffler2 wrote: »

That is correct as well. A new policy will be introduced so that Alcohol will have a set minumum price which means if an offo sells a can of beer for say 1 euro and the new policy say the minumum price is €1.50 then the offo will have to raise it's price to €1.50 instead. This also includes any "special offers" or bulk sales which is unfortunate.

You can probably blame the Vintners association / pub trade for that one.

Yep, the VFI didn't give a rats arse about social problems when they were raking the massive profits for themselves during the good times but now that everyone is feeling the strain, they are crying to the government about "How cheap booze is damaging to society" and something must be done!

...It also helps the VFI that apparently a good lot of TD's are publicans themselves!

* Long story short: expect some sort of minimum price set for alcohol sales.
What better time to set it up - and the government has been doing the usual 'soften the blow' dropping of hints for the last while - than at budget time and under the PR cover of social responsibility.

Galtee

Wouldn't it be funny if OP was actually Michael Noonan looking for ideas. :pac:

starbelgrade

Galtee wrote: »

Wouldn't it be funny if OP was actually Michael Noonan looking for ideas. :pac:

Not really.

df1985

so a minimum price for alcohol to stop supermarkets and off license selling cheap drink. Guarantee some arsehole publicans will throw 10-20c on the price of a pint......

Biggins

df1985 wrote: »

so a minimum price for alcohol to stop supermarkets and off license selling cheap drink. Guarantee some arsehole publicans will throw 10-20c on the price of a pint......

To be sure!
Within months, if not weeks of once they get used to and comfortable with minimum prices being set in supermarkets.
Not all but some will try it, if only to see could they get away with it at later times.

deisedave

Stiffler2 wrote: »

That is correct as well. A new policy will be introduced so that Alcohol will have a set minumum price which means if an offo sells a can of beer for say 1 euro and the new policy say the minumum price is €1.50 then the offo will have to raise it's price to €1.50 instead. This also includes any "special offers" or bulk sales which is unfortunate.

You can probably blame the Vintners association / pub trade for that one.

Thank god my partner is from N. Ireland, If they try this I will never buy alcohol in this country again. Ill stock up the car every two months when we go up, alcohol is just about getting to a decent price in this country and they want it to become more expensive again.

funk that :mad:

woodoo

Stiffler2 wrote: »

I'm also hearing rumours of a proposed Sugar Tax.

Fat tax, sugar tax. what next.... broccolli tax?

premierstone

seamus wrote: »

This year we'll see a VAT rate increase. 22% maybe. And probably some increse in import duties. We can't spend our way out of a recession. We can only earn money from somewhere else, so they'll aim to lower any taxes which affect exporters and foreign investment.

Import duties have nothing to do with the Irish government and are set by the European Commission and its highly unlikely there will be any change to these.

Oh_Noes

LiamN wrote: »

Ireland's like Springfield when they hosted the Radioactive Man movie.

The "leaving town tax" for exiting emigrants would certainly raise a few bob.

It should be interesting to see how they approach cigarettes. Most of the smokers I know have more or less abandoned buying them legitimately, opting for the black market because there's a saving of around 50% to be made. I think they've already passed the point of diminishing returns in regard to that, it might be the case that raising tobacco taxes results in a loss of money.

I can also imagine that if they push taxes up more and set a minimum price for drink, we'll see a lot more in the way of imaginative ways to get drink. Whether it's going up north, home brewing etc.

It is surprising to see so much talk of welfare and rent allowances and the likes when all they're trying to save there is 700 million out of an overall adjustment of 4 billion.

starbelgrade

I've no problem at all with the government raising the tax take on alcohol. It's a luxury item & should be taxed accordingly.

However, I do have an issue with them interfering with the pricing of goods & services in a free market. There is nothing to prove that below cost selling is of any detriment to the public and to try & introduce a minimum price for alcohol (or any other type of goods) requires monitoring and intervention that would be disproportionate to the adverse effects they were designed to remedy.

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

...I do have an issue with them interfering with the pricing of goods & services in a free market. There is nothing to prove that below cost selling is of any detriment to the public and to try & introduce a minimum price for alcohol (or any other type of goods) requires monitoring and intervention that would be disproportionate to the adverse effects they were designed to remedy.

The supermarket multi-nationals have already given notice to the Irish government that they will fight such a move in the European courts under EU competition rules and regulations.
If the government was to eventually lose, one can only imagine the millions/billions they would have to payback in revenue earned and punitive damages to boot.


...But so far the government - and the VFI are playing deaf to that part!

...What will happen if the above does come to pass? We end up paying out more yet again!

ArmaniJeanss

A miminum price per unit of alcohol isn't a great way of raising money for the government, looking at it purely from the Budget pov.

All they'd actually get from it would be increased VAT, but the Excise portion would stay the same. As people would be able to afford to buy less units then the increase in Vat might not even cover the loss in Excise.

It's makes far more sense to increase the Excise by a small amount.

Rabidlamb

I presume Children's Allowance will get a hit considering Micks computer still can't talk to Margret's computer.
Rent allowance will get a big hit also.

Biggins

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A miminum price per unit of alcohol isn't a great way of raising money for the government, looking at it purely from the Budget pov.

All they'd actually get from it would be increased VAT, but the Excise portion would stay the same. As people would be able to afford to buy less units then the increase in Vat might not even cover the loss in Excise.

It's makes far more sense to increase the Excise by a small amount.

They would introduce the price increase as a tax/levy.
The 'difference' of a new minimum price being the extra the government might also lay claim to.

Amirani

irishgeo wrote: »

i expect that DIRT tax ill go up, thats tax on any interest you make on savings.

This would make a lot of sense, people are saving too much.

ArmaniJeanss

Biggins wrote: »

They would introduce the price increase as a tax/levy.
The 'difference' of a new minimum price being the extra the government might also lay claim to.

Or, in other words, increase the Excise Duty as I said.

Biggins

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Or, in other words, increase the Excise Duty as I said.

If just the duty was increased, those already over the set minimum price - with their already higher prices - would just be hit yet again and they would claim discrimination and/or "why are we being just walloped more again?"

Its all speculative at the mo IF it will come at Budget time - but it looks like its coming sooner or later.
...So will a European court case then, if so!

ArmaniJeanss

Biggins wrote: »

If just the duty was increased, those already over the set minimum price - with their already higher prices - would just be hit yet again and they would claim discrimination and/or "why are we being just walloped more again?"

Its all speculative at the mo IF it will come at Budget time - but it looks like its coming sooner or later.
...So will a European court case then, if so!

What you are suggesting makes no sense.
If they set a miniumum of say €1.50 a can they would have no claim on the 'extra' - the seller of Dutch Gold (currently €1) would just state the 'to shelf' costs are now €1.30 or whatever so the governernment is reduced to just gaining the extra VAT.

A mimimum price just doesn't work as a revenue generator (as a health thing yes).
Excise duty (which effectively sets a minimum but gains revenue from those products already priced over the minimum) is the only way from a budgetary viewpoint.

Stiffler2

Not liking the look of this thread so far. Personally I would prefer a flat rate charge for the water as opposed to a metre so I wouldn't have to stress / worry about my water consumption.

The 1 cent tax on txt messages is a good idea but the 60 million a year it would raise would be pie in the sky compared to the 173 bilion we owe. Although every savings add up I suppose.

Let's face it, no tax is good. People are already out of work & aren't earning as much yet everything costs the same as it used to.

I heard they weren't touching income tax ( this year )

If a water metre is to be installed they will certainly be fiddled with to make it look as if you aren't using as much water. This can be done with a small hole in the plastic front on the metre followed by a strong wire that jams into the mileage which stops the metre from turning, seen it in action before on someone's house for gas.

Their gas bill was something like 15 euro a month lol. So, so far we have:

Property Tax
Water Charges
10c on Smokes
Min price for Alchol
Possible Fuel Increases
1 cent tax on txt's
Increase on Import Tax

Anything else I've missed or anything else anyone can add ?

Biggins

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

What you are suggesting makes no sense.
If they set a miniumum of say €1.50 a can they would have no claim on the 'extra' - the seller of Dutch Gold (currently €1) would just state the 'to shelf' costs are now €1.30 or whatever so the governernment is reduced to just gaining the extra VAT.

To be honest the government (like the previous ones) seem to think they can do the heck they want - and if need be, re-write the laws of the land to facilitate this (even if it means making the public vote and re-vote again to get their way!).

What I'm saying is that with the proper legal 'abilities' to do so in place, if a can NOW costs 1.30 in a supermarket - they might say that if they are setting a minimum of 1.50, the 20c difference might be claimed as theirs under newly minted rules/laws that are further advantageous to them.
Don't put it past them to try every measure of gaining revenue!

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A mimimum price just doesn't work as a revenue generator (as a health thing yes).
Excise duty (which effectively sets a minimum but gains revenue from those products already priced over the minimum) is the only way from a budgetary viewpoint.

Well thats certainly debatable.

They have already at times hinted/said certain taxes will not be changed.
So maybe new ways of gaining revenue are now coming down the pipeline on top of the new ones already hinted at and "soften the blow" PR 'leaks' have mentioned already?

binxeo

Jesus, all of this budget stuff tends to go right over my head unfortunately but I am really not liking what I am reading here. I am dreading this now really am. When are they issuing the budget anyway?

Amirani

binxeo wrote: »

Jesus, all of this budget stuff tends to go right over my head unfortunately but I am really not liking what I am reading here. I am dreading this now really am. When are they issuing the budget anyway?

Every December.

Biggins

binxeo wrote: »

Jesus, all of this budget stuff tends to go right over my head unfortunately but I am really not liking what I am reading here. I am dreading this now really am. When are they issuing the budget anyway?

6th December if memory serves me right.

Stinicker

niallsparky wrote: »

This would make a lot of sense, people are saving too much.

And this is why the economy is here is f**ked, I would abolish DIRT Tax if I were in charged. In Germany over the last decade while Ireland collectively was busy snorting cocaine of a hookers arse paid for with borrowed money, those frugal Germans were happily working away at the coal face making BMW's and robots that make BMW's to sell to gullible fools like us. The average german saves a very large portion of their salary to put away for their retirements and the important things in life. People in Ireland go out on a Friday night and get pissed in the pub and piss their salary away on stupid things.

People need to save more, Bertie Ahern was a total crook but the SSIA Savings scheme was a great thing FF did, however while it was great for frugal people like myself, in reality because of the way it was managed it resulted in throwing a can of petrol onto the property bonfire and essentially bought Fianna Fail the 2007 General Election with this collective bribe.

The SSIA scheme should be started again as part of a greater move to encourage savings, by promoting savings you are promoting better frugal policy and there are many good sides to this whole collapse in that it has woken people up to the true value of money and sorted the borrowed money rich kids out from the people who have money and actually worked for it.

I myself am afraid DIRT would raise also so I pooled my savings which were spread thin here and there before lodging them with PTSB at 10% over 26months, result I got a nice fat cheque and while I was going to use the interest cheque to buy a new car I have decided against and instead lodged it back in to a different account.

We need to reward people who are making the effort and no bailout those cretins who got sucked into the borrowed money mortgage ponzi scheme.

Means Of Escape

mathie wrote: »

talkinyite wrote: »

I'm not paying.

The Keyboard Warrior Tax?

The Smart Bollox Tax?

c_man

How about they cut grants to people to write books (merely because they're in Irish) which sell in the single figures? Cut all grants to Macnas slit-walkers and the likes?

No? Oh right, get rid of a load of cancer treatment wards so.

Amirani

Stinicker wrote: »

And this is why the economy is here is f**ked, I would abolish DIRT Tax if I were in charged. In Germany over the last decade while Ireland collectively was busy snorting cocaine of a hookers arse paid for with borrowed money, those frugal Germans were happily working away at the coal face making BMW's and robots that make BMW's to sell to gullible fools like us. The average german saves a very large portion of their salary to put away for their retirements and the important things in life. People in Ireland go out on a Friday night and get pissed in the pub and piss their salary away on stupid things.

People need to save more, Bertie Ahern was a total crook but the SSIA Savings scheme was a great thing FF did, however while it was great for frugal people like myself, in reality because of the way it was managed it resulted in throwing a can of petrol onto the property bonfire and essentially bought Fianna Fail the 2007 General Election with this collective bribe.

The SSIA scheme should be started again as part of a greater move to encourage savings, by promoting savings you are promoting better frugal policy and there are many good sides to this whole collapse in that it has woken people up to the true value of money and sorted the borrowed money rich kids out from the people who have money and actually worked for it.

I myself am afraid DIRT would raise also so I pooled my savings which were spread thin here and there before lodging them with PTSB at 10% over 26months, result I got a nice fat cheque and while I was going to use the interest cheque to buy a new car I have decided against and instead lodged it back in to a different account.

We need to reward people who are making the effort and no bailout those cretins who got sucked into the borrowed money mortgage ponzi scheme.

Reason our economy is so depressed at the moment is because of high savings. If you had any concept of economics you would know that Government should facilitate savings during times of expansion and promote spending during times of contraction. Ireland's savings rate is in double figures at the moment, far in excess of what would be considered normal in any country. Consequently there's a lack of growth.

Also the SSIA's were a crazy idea, completely inflated the boom when they matured.

Gummy Panda

Dónal wrote: »

Let the bears pay the bear tax.

I pay enough tax :mad: