Is City Centre living vastly underrated in Ireland?

dilbert2

Now before I begin, I concede that I grew up in a suburb in North County Dublin. However, I have always had the desire to live in the City Centre, if not now, at least one day. Why? Well because of a few factors such as

(a) Been so central first and foremost,

(b) Never having to own a car given all the buses and trains

(c) More variety of shops of all kind

(d) Attractive parks such as St. Stephens Green, the Phoenix Park etc.

(e) Countless cinemas, theatres, libraries and of course museums, mostly free of entry.

(f) Much closer to work, and not only that, more employment in general.

(g) General culture and great architecture.

Could list countless other positive aspects of city centre living, and I include all city centres around Ireland including Cork, Galway etc. However, whenever you mention the words "city centre living" to a lot of Irish people, even to those who grew up the cities themselves, there is a lot of negative association with them, particularly from people who use the old "move to a bigger house in the suburbs to raise a family" bunch.

But I don't think we give City Centres enough of a chance in this country, and think too positively of (at least during the boom years) buying a semi-d in the suburbs, particularly if we want to raise a family. But consider the numerous disadvantages,

(a) The huge distance from work and the long commute.

(b) Car ownership, usually in newer 90s and 00s developments necessary in nearly every instance. Thinly spread public transport system.

(c) Dead green spaces left over after development, usually for the kids to kick the ball around on during the summer. In comparison to a city park such as the Phoenix Park, they appear dead and sometimes depressing.

(d) Very limited choice of shops and cultural venues - maybe a spar and a pub, with a shopping centre if you’re lucky. Nothing is free or educational such as museums etc.

(e) Dull architecture and poorly built houses that cost a lot more to heat and maintain.

(f) Gardens that hardly anybody uses (the front in particular), unlike a city park.

And countless other examples. What does everybody think? I personally think that we underrate and even demean City Centre living despite it been a wonderful living arrangement (there are obviously some danger areas in every city, but that’s another story), and vastly overrate buying a home in the semi-d suburbs, particularly during the boom years.

billymitchell

dilbert2 wrote: »

....
But I don't think we give City Centres enough of a chance in this country,
......

What??

Iwasfrozen

dilbert2 wrote: »

Now before I begin, I concede that I grew up in a suburb in North County Dublin. However, I have always had the desire to live in the City Centre, if not now, at least one day. Why? Well because of a few factors such as

(a) Been so central first and foremost,

(b) Never having to own a car given all the buses and trains

(c) More variety of shops of all kind

(d) Attractive parks such as St. Stephens Green, the Phoenix Park etc.

(e) Countless cinemas, theatres, libraries and of course museums, mostly free of entry.

(f) Much closer to work, and not only that, more employment in general.

(g) General culture and great architecture.

Could list countless other positive aspects of city centre living, and I include all city centres around Ireland including Cork, Galway etc. However, whenever you mention the words "city centre living" to a lot of Irish people, even to those who grew up the cities themselves, there is a lot of negative association with them, particularly from people who use the old "move to a bigger house in the suburbs to raise a family" bunch.

But I don't think we give City Centres enough of a chance in this country, and think too positively of (at least during the boom years) buying a semi-d in the suburbs, particularly if we want to raise a family. But consider the numerous disadvantages,

(a) The huge distance from work and the long commute.

(b) Car ownership, usually in newer 90s and 00s developments necessary in nearly every instance. Thinly spread public transport system.

(c) Dead green spaces left over after development, usually for the kids to kick the ball around on during the summer. In comparison to a city park such as the Phoenix Park, they appear dead and sometimes depressing.

(d) Very limited choice of shops and cultural venues - maybe a spar and a pub, with a shopping centre if you’re lucky. Nothing is free or educational such as museums etc.

(e) Dull architecture and poorly built houses that cost a lot more to heat and maintain.

(f) Gardens that hardly anybody uses (the front in particular), unlike a city park.

And countless other examples. What does everybody think? I personally think that we underrate and even demean City Centre living despite it been a wonderful living arrangement (there are obviously some danger areas in every city, but that’s another story), and vastly overrate buying a home in the semi-d suburbs, particularly during the boom years.

Suburbs are ****, the country is were you should go to raise a family.

TheZohanS

The thing that I find amusing about people living in Dublin is that some bemoan having to travel a few kms around the county as if they were travelling the length of the country of something!

kfallon

I live in the City Centre.....get in

Fallon 1 - 0 Public Transport :P

Logical Fallacy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Suburbs are ****, the country is were you should go to raise a family.

As someone who was raised in the country....are you crazy?:D

pow wow

You're giving Irish city centres wayyyyy too much credit OP.

Latchy

TheZohan wrote: »

The thing that I find amusing about people living in Dublin is that some bemoan having to travel a few kms around the county as if they were travelling the length of the country of something!

With some comparing a trip over from the northside to the southside as like a trip from Manchester to London ... even with the motorway it's the other side of the world

Iwasfrozen

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As someone who was raised in the country....are you crazy?:D

As someone who was raised in the country, no. Are you?

parker kent

I'd hate to live in the city centre. There are enough shops, cinemas, libraries etc near me. Plus I can get a bus to the city centre to see anything else that is on and I will be there in 20 minutes. I walk to work every day as well. So living 20 minutes away from the city centre in a bigger apartment for less rent is the ideal IMO.

Obviously as I age my desires will change. Long term I want to live back in Wicklow. Where I will still a short drive away from Dublin Shítty Centre if needs be (for the concerts, soccer matches, theatre etc). They have shops and cinemas and "culture" there too :eek:

spoofilyj

There are advantages and disadvantages to both for I think I depends on where you are in Life.

At the moment I'm in my late 20's and single working away in the city centre and living close by so its grand now, but there is no way I'd stay here to have a family, there's not enough privacy and space.
Parks are great but what about the scumbag element that is a lot more prevalent in Cities and are a constant annoyance.

In the country you have your own space and privacy and the noise level is way lower and I think its more plesent over all for familys.
Over all its down to personal preference though...

Logical Fallacy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As someone who was raised in the country, no. Are you?

I get the feeling you woke up without your sense of humour this morning.

Corvo

The huge amount of scum in cities is what would drive anyone from taking up that life (if previously living elsewhere)

summerskin

having grown up in the countryside in the UK, lived in the mountains in France and also spent 1 year in Geneva, 10 years living in London (a real city, not an oversized town like Dublin), 2 in New York before moving to Clare I can tell you that country life and a commute is far better than city life, at this time in my life.

However, if you're young and have no responsibilities, city life can't be beaten. But it has to be a real city. Not Dublin.

Eoin

TheZohan wrote: »

The thing that I find amusing about people living in Dublin is that some bemoan having to travel a few kms around the county as if they were travelling the length of the country of something!

Pretty understandable given the inordinate amount of time it can take to travel a short distance. It used to take me over an hour to travel 10 miles into work. That's over 2 hours a day - not far off how long it would take to drive to Galway.

SEPT 23 1989

summerskin wrote: »

having grown up in the countryside in the UK, lived in the mountains in France and also spent 1 year in Geneva, 10 years living in London (a real city, not an oversized town like Dublin), 2 in New York before moving to Clare I can tell you that country life and a commute is far better than city life, at this time in my life.

However, if you're young and have no responsibilities, city life can't be beaten. But it has to be a real city. Not Dublin.

Stop slagging Dublin

ScumLord

dilbert2 wrote: »

(c) More variety of shops of all kind

All selling the same crap.

(d) Attractive parks such as St. Stephens Green, the Phoenix Park etc.

We call them fields out here, my town has over a hundred "parks"

Main disadvantage to the city is it's full of people, people are awful to be around and it only gets worse the more of them there are.

Iwasfrozen

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I get the feeling you woke up without your sense of humour this morning.

Oh you were making a joke, I get jokes.

Fbjm

Look at my location.
Now look at the city centre.
Now look at my location again.
Now back to the city centre.

You're missing out.

stovelid

dilbert2 wrote: »

(f) Much closer to work, and not only that, more employment in general.

What I always find strange about this mantra is that it is often untrue.

I think it's a hangover from the property boom where the population were brainwahsed into buying apartments in central locations.

I've been working in my current field for 12 years and am with my 4th employer: all in Dublin and only one of them have been in the city centre.

Each location has its merits but I'm happy to be 8-9 miles out of the city centre but on a Luas line for quick access to the city.

suicide_circus

Well as a young, mostly single male with no real commitments,debts, a very active social life etc I think I would find living any great distance from Dublin city centre highly inconvenient. I can walk to oconnell st in 15mins, perfecto.

My name is URL

I live in the best place in the country. A small quiet village which is less than 1.5 hours drive to the two largest cities on the island, and less than a half hours drive to a couple of the largest towns. I'd hate to live in a city or town tbh.. a lot of people who do; portray themselves as been more cosmopolitan and modern than country folk, despite actually being some of the most insular people you could ever meet.

dilbert2

TheZohan wrote: »

The thing that I find amusing about people living in Dublin is that some bemoan having to travel a few kms around the county as if they were travelling the length of the country of something!

Good for you if you don't mind devoting 3-4 hours of your day sitting in a car. Some people are just debating the merits of alternative living arrangements, and imagining not having to be in such a situation (aka. spending half the day on the M50).

biko

I used to live in city centres (in various cities) and loved it. Mind moving a bit further out is good too but that means it's farther to shops and other amenities.

dilbert2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Suburbs are ****, the country is were you should go to raise a family.

This isn't about the country, its about city centre living -vs- the suburbs. I'm sure country living is wonderful if you work in the middle of the country, but most jobs are in the city. Also, suburbs have none of the advantages of either city centre living, or country living, just a crappy compromise with the best of neither.

WindSock

I'd love to live in a city for a spell, suburbs are for zombies.

TheZohanS

Eoin wrote: »

Pretty understandable given the inordinate amount of time it can take to travel a short distance. It used to take me over an hour to travel 10 miles into work. That's over 2 hours a day - not far off how long it would take to drive to Galway.

dilbert2 wrote: »

Good for you if you don't mind devoting 3-4 hours of your day sitting in a car. Some people are just debating the merits of alternative living arrangements, and imagining not having to be in such a situation (aka. spending half the day on the M50).

I used to commute to Contarf daily, by leaving 20min earlier I could shave 1hr off my commute. My daily commute was 200km, took 1hr 20min each way. Had I used public transport I probably would have gotten there quicker too.

mal1

I'm from the countryside. Living in the city and staying here. Not city centre but close to work. Any commuting will have to be on foot or on a bike.

I don't see a difference in bringing up kids in a good city area or in the countryside. My girlfriend and most of my friends grew up in the city and all they seem fine.

So far this thread is just pointing out the generalities of both lifestyles.

dilbert2

ScumLord wrote: »

All selling the same crap.

We call them fields out here, my town has over a hundred "parks"

Main disadvantage to the city is it's full of people, people are awful to be around and it only gets worse the more of them there are.

Again, nothing about the countryside here, its suburbs - vs - city centre, and a comparison of green spaces in suburban areas - vs - city centre parks. Also, I wish you the best in those "parks", before you are greeted with a shotgun and "this is private property".

starbelgrade

It's not the City Centre.

It's called "town".

starbelgrade

dilbert2 wrote: »

(b) Never having to own a car given all the buses and trains

Only a Dub who's never lived outside Dublin & can't drive would see never owning a car and having to share public transport with the great unwashed as a plus.

Cars are friggin' awesome.

Miss Olenska

summerskin wrote: »

But it has to be a real city. Not Dublin.

Dublin has a larger population (both city proper and metro) than New Orleans. Don't think anyone would consider Orleans to be anything other than a real city. London and New York are alpha cities, there's probably only about 20 of those in the world.

Latchy

City Centre living is grand if the city in question is moving , has a pulse and a beat about it and you can get in and out quickly enough on public or private transports , which is essential and part of the mix for good quality living there .

summerskin

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Dublin has a larger population (both city proper and metro) than New Orleans. Don't think anyone would consider Orleans to be anything other than a real city. London and New York are alpha cities, there's probably only about 20 of those in the world.

and new orleans also is more like a large town.

starbelgrade

Latchy wrote: »

City Centre living is grand if the city in question is moving , has a pulse and a beat about it and you can get in and out quickly enough on public or private transports , which is essential and part of the mix for good quality living there .

Belfast is the best city in Ireland for getting in & out of by car or bus - the connections to the motorway are savage.. you get none of the tailbacks that you do in Dublin where everything gets clogged up along the quays.

Miss Olenska

summerskin wrote: »

and new orleans also is more like a large town.

I like London in many ways, I do! But it's not THAT great, larger population doesn't automatically mean better.

Eoin

TheZohan wrote: »

I used to commute to Contarf daily, by leaving 20min earlier I could shave 1hr off my commute. My daily commute was 200km, took 1hr 20min each way. Had I used public transport I probably would have gotten there quicker too.

That doesn't contradict anything I said though.

jester77

Can't beat city life.

It's great to be able to stay out partying to 4 or 5 in the morning, and be able to walk home without worrying about transport.
Feel like pigging out at 22:00, just pop across the street and get a bag of munchies.
Wake up on a Sunday morning, pop downstairs to the cafe's, sit outside, enjoy the weather, read your newspaper and enjoy a coffee.
Don't have to worry about commuting to work or being stuck in traffic.
Lot's of options for restaurants, bars, cinemas, theaters, etc
In the Summer can walk around the corner to the park or down to the beach and have a BBQ

TheZohanS

Eoin wrote: »

That doesn't contradict anything I said though.

Get up earlier!

Sykk

summerskin wrote: »

having grown up in the countryside in the UK, lived in the mountains in France and also spent 1 year in Geneva, 10 years living in London (a real city, not an oversized town like Dublin), 2 in New York before moving to Clare I can tell you that country life and a commute is far better than city life, at this time in my life.

However, if you're young and have no responsibilities, city life can't be beaten. But it has to be a real city. Not Dublin.

Yes because size of the location matters. Instead of three cinemas, I could be in a city with 40 cinemas.. You know seen as though I can be in multiple places at once...

Latchy

starbelgrade wrote: »

Belfast is the best city in Ireland for getting in & out of by car or bus - the connections to the motorway are savage.. you get none of the tailbacks that you do in Dublin where everything gets clogged up along the quays.

Dublins quays are the motrorists nightmare and it's always been like this .The connections from any major british city onto the motorway with ease is the norm but Dublin as a city just isin't designed to take up and 'free' the amount of traffic it holds .

mal1

summerskin wrote: »

having grown up in the countryside in the UK, lived in the mountains in France and also spent 1 year in Geneva, 10 years living in London (a real city, not an oversized town like Dublin), 2 in New York before moving to Clare I can tell you that country life and a commute is far better than city life, at this time in my life.

However, if you're young and have no responsibilities, city life can't be beaten. But it has to be a real city. Not Dublin.

That makes you a a real city connoisseur. But tell me, what is wrong with these towns you mention?

summerskin

mal1 wrote: »

That makes you a a real city connoisseur. But tell me, what is wrong with these towns you mention?

Absolutely nothing. Towns can be great places to live.

I've been lucky enough to live in everything from a village with 90 people, a town with 150,000 and cities with 8m+, and I'm just expressing an opinion on what is my favoured option at this time.

However, if I had the chance to go back and do it all again as a single person, i would always choose a big city over a smaller one that feels like an oversized town. the dynamic and atmospheres are very different. There is a buzz in the big cities that can't be matched by Dublin, Cardiff, Edinburgh as they feel too parochial, almost.

Eoin

TheZohan wrote: »

Get up earlier!

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. Do you really think that people are choosing to be stuck in traffic because they can't be arsed getting out of bed a bit earlier?

Loads of people:

1) Have fixed working hours. By getting up earlier; they might get into work quicker, but not be able to leave any earlier.

2) Live on shìtty bus routes that are irregular / don't have bus lanes - time of day isn't always the only problem.

I remember having to wait up to 45 minutes on a pretty regular basis for a bus that was supposed to run every 10 minutes - and that was from a suburb that was - on paper - well served by public transport.

Latchy

Miss Olenska wrote: »

I like London in many ways, I do! But it's not THAT great, larger population doesn't automatically mean better.

That's true ...you might get around much quicker with all the tube connections with plenty to see and do but you can still feel disconnected in London and some quiter suburbs aside , it's a city with people constantly on the move .

Miss Olenska

Latchy wrote: »

That's true ...you might get around much quicker with all the tube connections with plenty to see and do but you can still feel disconnected in London and some quiter suburbs aside , it's a city with people constantly on the move .

Exactly.

bnt

To squeeze more people in to the centre of Dublin, comfortably, there would be only one solution: build up. As I understand the situation, there are two locations in Dublin where skyscrapers would be likely to receive approval today: Docklands, and the area around Heuston Station. This is the "La Défense strategy", named after the area of Paris, where skyscrapers and modern architecture are permitted without much argument, while the rest of Paris remains low-rise "heritage".

To build a high-rise anywhere else in Dublin, you'd be at risk of wiping out "heritage" and compromising the tourist appeal. On top of that, there's the problem of space. To stop skyscrapers creating "concrete canyons" and blotting out the sunlight too much, you'd need rules requiring setbacks from the street. There are now such rules in New York, where they limit the number of stories next to a street: higher floors must be further from the street. There have also been rules requiring the whole building to be set back, creating a plaza on front of it, as in e.g. the Rockefeller Center. In short: skyscrapers now need a bigger footprint than in the early days in Chicago, where they could blot out the sun over whole districts.

Jess16

I think the real question is why so many people insist on doing the Townie/Culchie debate ad nauseam -we already know the answers and I doubt they've changed since the last 5,000 times this has been discussed

df1985

Country living is vastly OVERRATED in my opinion. Id top myself if i lived where my cousins live (clare, galway, roscommon)

(I live in Kildare-not city living but close enough-I can be in conolly station in half an hour, have nights out in Dublin, but still be outside the city)

Galtee

dilbert2 wrote: »

Now before I begin, I concede that I grew up in a suburb in North County Dublin. However, I have always had the desire to live in the City Centre, if not now, at least one day. Why? Well because of a few factors such as



(a) Been so central first and foremost,



(b) Never having to own a car given all the buses and trains



(c) More variety of shops of all kind



(d) Attractive parks such as St. Stephens Green, the Phoenix Park etc.



(e) Countless cinemas, theatres, libraries and of course museums, mostly free of entry.



(f) Much closer to work, and not only that, more employment in general.



(g) General culture and great architecture.



Could list countless other positive aspects of city centre living, and I include all city centres around Ireland including Cork, Galway etc. However, whenever you mention the words "city centre living" to a lot of Irish people, even to those who grew up the cities themselves, there is a lot of negative association with them, particularly from people who use the old "move to a bigger house in the suburbs to raise a family" bunch.



But I don't think we give City Centres enough of a chance in this country, and think too positively of (at least during the boom years) buying a semi-d in the suburbs, particularly if we want to raise a family. But consider the numerous disadvantages,



(a) The huge distance from work and the long commute.



(b) Car ownership, usually in newer 90s and 00s developments necessary in nearly every instance. Thinly spread public transport system.



(c) Dead green spaces left over after development, usually for the kids to kick the ball around on during the summer. In comparison to a city park such as the Phoenix Park, they appear dead and sometimes depressing.



(d) Very limited choice of shops and cultural venues - maybe a spar and a pub, with a shopping centre if you’re lucky. Nothing is free or educational such as museums etc.



(e) Dull architecture and poorly built houses that cost a lot more to heat and maintain.



(f) Gardens that hardly anybody uses (the front in particular), unlike a city park.



And countless other examples. What does everybody think? I personally think that we underrate and even demean City Centre living despite it been a wonderful living arrangement (there are obviously some danger areas in every city, but that’s another story), and vastly overrate buying a home in the semi-d suburbs, particularly during the boom years.

You had me at "Now before I begin, I concede that I grew up in a suburb in North County Dublin"

pajunior

This topic is always way to personal to ever have a proper debate about it. Deciding where to live is one of the most important choices we consciously make in our lives that is so easily debated.
No-one wants the decision they made on that to be brought into question.
In my opinion I plan on living in the city center in the future. It's not perfect but as someone in their early twenties it has most things i want.

Also comparing London to Dublin is ridiculous, London is a huge primate city similar to New York or Tokyo. We're talking nearly about 1.5 times the size of the population of this Island. Compare Dublin to Cardiff or Edinburgh for a better comparison.