unclaimed body!!!

Peterbilt

Strange query I know. Trying - TRYING!- to write first piece of fiction. Plot involves body of man found here in Ireland and despite best efforts of Guards - Interpol etc - his ID cannot be verified.
Does anyone know what happens to human remains in Ireland if nobody claims them or ID cannot be found?
Is there something like a period of time and then the body is cremated or buried?
Have already asked my local undertaker over a few Bushmills but he doesnt know. Says he isnt interested in bodies that nobody claims! Yes, yes he is one of those comic undertakers. He also has a pub where you can drown your sorrows afterward...

No, this isnt a joke query. So please no joke replies.
Thanks in advance.

Ken.

Asked a cop friend about this once and his understanding of it is that if the deceased was the victim of murder the body is kept on ice at a morgue pending any trial and if the death was natural or accidental the county council of the area the body was found buries the person.

McCrack

You need to contact the coroners office. Then post back here to let us know. Nothing like a bit of idle information.

BrianD

Do you read about that guy in the UK? He died in police custody 10 years ago in controversial circumstances.

10 years later and it turns out his body is still in the morgue. The family had been given somebody else to bury.

Bit bizarre that a body could be in a morgue for 10 years.

DeepSleeper

BrianD wrote: »

Bit bizarre that a body could be in a morgue for 10 years.

Hmmm - the maximum time you could keep someone on ice in a fish-shop freezer in Galway is about 5 years, so perhaps 10 years in morgue isn't so bad...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0619/mccormackp.html

skafish

Had some experience on this one a few years ago.... A fisherman was washed into the sea, when the divers went loking for the body, we found one, but dental records showed it wasn't the person we were looking for. The body we found was never (as far as I know) identified, and was burried a year and a day after it was recovered. Unfortunatley, the body we were looking for was never found!

Gee Bag

The relevant pieces of legislation I can think of are below:

Local Authority (Sanitary Services) Act (1948)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0003/print.html#partvi

Coroner's Act 1962
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1962/en/act/pub/0009/index.html

The only organisation allowed to retain human remains indefinitley are the National Museum under the National Monuments Acts (1930-2004). But this specifically refers to ancient remains.

The common law position is that no one can own a corpse;

• Handyside's Case (1750)
• Foster V Dodd (1867, LR 3 QB 7)
• Williams V Williams (1882, 20 Ch D 659)

Intrestingly enough, because no one can own a corpse the theft of a corpse is not prosecutable. This arose in cases of 'resurrection men' stealing bodies to sell to medical faculties

R. v Lynn (1789, 2 Term Rep. 733)
R. V Price (1884, 12 QBD 247)


Here's a link to the frequently asked questions section on the Dublin Coroner's website. It appears your question isn't asked too often!
http://www.coronerdublincity.ie/faqs/death.htm

Have had to deal with coroner's from time to time because of my job. If you are going to ask anyone to get an answer to your question then I'd recommend that you e-mail the Dublin Coroner's Office. Some of the other lad's can be a bit arsey.

If you get a response post it up here, I'd love to know the answer.

P.S. found these links. The plot thickens!
http://www.galwaynews.ie/20403-unidentified-body-buried-galway-island
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1007/1224305390063.html

Delancey

To the best of my knowledge an unclaimed and unidentified body will be released by the Coroner once all avenues of enquiry are exhausted.
The body will then be buried at the expense of the local authority, there have been a couple of cases like this in the last few years.

Peregrinus

If an unidentified body is found, an inquest is held to try to determine who it is, and how he came to die.

The coroner gets to decide when and how the body is to be disposed of. Normally, I guess, they would keep it on ice as long as there was any possibility of identifying it (and, therefore, the next-of-kin) or any possibility that it might be needed for, e.g., further forensic tests. But at some point the coroner will order it buried - though probably tissue samples will be taken and retained to facilitate further testing, if new avenues of enquiry open up.

The local authority will be responsible for burying the body. It will almost certainly be a burial, and not a cremation (again, to keep open the possibility of later exhumation and further investigation).

Peterbilt

Thats a great response, thank you everyone. Now all I have to do is finish the thing. My big fear is trying to write something and thinking that it might be ok when in fact its rubbish!

LovelyHurling

Another interesting case - don't know what ever became of the subsequent post mortem though.

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/unidentified-body-may-be-exhumed-1078247.html

Either way it seems that the body is eventually buried, as others have already suggested.

Delancey

LovelyHurling wrote: »

Another interesting case - don't know what ever became of the subsequent post mortem though.

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/unidentified-body-may-be-exhumed-1078247.html

Either way it seems that the body is eventually buried, as others have already suggested.

In that case a family asked for this unidentified female to be exhumed in case it was their sister, the exhumation went ahead but it was not the body of the missing woman.
The remains were reburied after DNA samples were taken - they remain unidentified.

Our man in Havana

Does the concept of paupers graves still exist?

LovelyHurling

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Does the concept of paupers graves still exist?

Not in the 'mass grave' sense of the 19th century, of course, but I know that in the UK, local councils still bury the unclaimed dead - often those with psychological problems who avoided contact with their local communities.

The burial of the dead who had no friends and family was the subject of an interesting documentary on the BBC(?) a few years back. Often the body was only discovered months after the death, and failing the ability to contact any family of the deceased, the council would take on the responsibility for burial. It was part of one council official's job to go along to the 'pauper's funeral' as a mark of respect to the dead person.

I'm not sure what the situation is in Ireland, but it being a smaller country, I imagine the dead tend to be less anonymous here.

These days the Department of Social Protection (but formerly the HSE) provide financial assistance for families who cannot afford to bury their own dead, and in a sense that could be considered a bit of a pauper's funeral, I suppose.

Peregrinus

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Does the concept of paupers graves still exist?

There are no pauper's graves, as such. An unidentified or destitute person who is buried at public expense (in Ireland I think it's the health boards that pay; in the UK it's the local government authorities) is buried in an ordinary grave in an ordinary graveyard. There won't be a headstone, though.

Victor

LovelyHurling wrote: »

These days the Department of Social Protection (but formerly the HSE) provide financial assistance for families who cannot afford to bury their own dead, and in a sense that could be considered a bit of a pauper's funeral, I suppose.

Actually, the vast majority of people may be entitled to a Bereavement Grant of €850, although many funerals would cost a multiple of that.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/death_related_benefits/bereavement_grant.html

Peterbilt

my fictional character turns out in death to have three passports. each country says they have no record of him...but have record of that name and that face. except those men are dead too.

have no idea how to stitch it all together to keep people turning the pages.... honey not now!!! Im reading! etc

skafish

Peterbilt wrote: »

my fictional character turns out in death to have three passports. each country says they have no record of him...but have record of that name and that face. except those men are dead too.

have no idea how to stitch it all together to keep people turning the pages.... honey not now!!! Im reading! etc

Mind you, if you need a reviewer/critic, I'll voulenteer

Our man in Havana

Peterbilt wrote: »

my fictional character turns out in death to have three passports. each country says they have no record of him...but have record of that name and that face. except those men are dead too.

have no idea how to stitch it all together to keep people turning the pages.... honey not now!!! Im reading! etc

Let the UN decide!

viewpoint

I am posting reply to your comment years after you posted this, I hope you are still on boards, my question is where did you find the unidentified remains when you were searcing for a fisherman. What year was this and what was the location. I hope you can help with this.

I am campaigning to get unidentified remains exhumed and DNA taken, even when remains were recovereed many years ago, we have many graves of unidentified remains in Ireland. Each of these are someone's missing loved one. Some remains are retained in universities or morgues for long periods.

I hope you can help with this.