Berlin get to see our Budget first ?

My name is URL

And yesterday Noonan announced an extension of the bank guarantee. Anyone that thinks this lot are any better than FF needs their heads examined.

Morlar

whatislife wrote: »

Fine Gael, Fianna Faile and the rest of them are all of the same but with different cultural/historical backgrounds.

They are all run by self serving, greedy people who put themselves above and before the nation that they are supposed to support.

But its ok because we won't protest. After all protesting is for crusties and doesn't achieve anything...

That reminds me of an article in Vanity fair about the Irish. It was basically a quote from a taxi driver, the gist of it was something like 'Yeah, us Irish will take it and take it and take it and take it. But then, when we do finally snap you better watch out.' (Or words to that effect). I thought it was a fairly accurate observation.

twinytwo

Biggins wrote: »

I remember it well!
Where are they now!

yes where is mr Vin Rhymes... or however he spelt it.

My name is URL

Biggins wrote: »

I remember it well!
Where are they now!

They're in the politics forum bleating on about how we are to blame for the worlds problems and how the only remedies are ones drawn up by the EU

Sir Oxman

Germany is a country. We are a country. (Okay, stay with me here...)
Why is another country in an apparent union of equals having first dibs on another country's budget proposals.
If it has to be someone/thing then it should be the EU not bloody Germany.

And Fianna Fail can shut the fúck up too. Fckin vermin.

foxyboxer

Can anyone translate this into German and send it to Angela?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1109/pensions.html

msg11

gambiaman wrote: »

And Fianna Fail can shut the fúck up too. Fckin vermin.

Don't forget that joker from the green party, I am actually starting to think here to myself that I wouldn't actually trust these looneys with a budget for dog.

Son Of A Vidic

Biggins wrote: »

I remember it well!
Where are they now!

Their silence is deafening isn't it? Mindless, unthinking sheep who blindly followed the bullshít verbal ejaculations of our idiot politicians.

ThinkAboutIt

twinytwo wrote: »

no we are paying them to pay for the lights, so as usual it is the middle class thats forks up for everything.

If we were paying we wouldn't need a BAILOUT from GERMANY. Just accept it, we cannot control ourselves now, we had the chance and blew it. It is what it is.

Biggins

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Their silence is deafening isn't it? Mindless, unthinking sheep who blindly followed the bullshít verbal ejaculations of our idiot politicians.

I like others, kept mentioning "dozing sheep" or words to that effect during the two European referendums and got ridiculed for it.
Amazing how those that were so vocal them, are silent now. Guess they must have crawled back under their rocks to hide!

amacachi

twinytwo wrote: »

id like also to thank all those who voted yes to lisbon, after all those of us who voted no were morons?? right??.

We handed away what little power we had on the back of promises from those in governemt... oh the irony.

Our own government would sell us up the river if it suited them, not a sack between the lot of them.

If you (or hell, even those who thanked your posts) could go ahead and post the relevant part of the treaty that would be super awesome!

TheZohanS

amacachi wrote: »

If you (or hell, even those who thanked your posts) could go ahead and post the relevant part of the treaty that would be super awesome!

Here.

twinytwo

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Their silence is deafening isn't it? Mindless, unthinking sheep who blindly followed the bullshít verbal ejaculations of our idiot politicians.

Year after year of the same drivel coming from everyone of them. id actually like to know how many election promises were actually kept in the last 10 years....

i always remember that bogger healy rae with his " im an honest hard working politican"....

bbbhhhhhaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa

mongoman

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

If we were paying we wouldn't need a BAILOUT from GERMANY. Just accept it, we cannot control ourselves now, we had the chance and blew it. It is what it is.

This is the type of gombeenism thinking that voted Yes to Lisbon, but when you read such dellusion what hope have we?

My name is URL

I wonder if the next treaty will be passed..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8885498/EU-turmoil-revives-calls-for-referendum.html

twinytwo

amacachi wrote: »

If you (or hell, even those who thanked your posts) could go ahead and post the relevant part of the treaty that would be super awesome!

Maybe im missing the point of your post,:o are you asking me to point out what i thought was good? or are u saying that it wouldnt suit everyone?

Well. At least we'll have less of those damn Jews.

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

I like others, kept mentioning "dozing sheep" or words to that effect during the two European referendums and got ridiculed for it.
Amazing how those that were so vocal them, are silent now. Guess they must have crawled back under their rocks to hide!

Nah I'm fairly sure most still say they voted in favour. I'm also loving the revisionism that people on boards were the type who said the bubble wouldn't burst. A quick look through the Accomodation and Property or the Economics forum shows that plenty said it could happen while mainstream economists said otherwise.

amacachi

twinytwo wrote: »

Maybe im missing the point of your post,:o i voted no both times

You implied that somehow voting in favour of the Lisbon Treaty led to where we are now. How? Enlighten us because I'm obviously just one of the sheeple who can't think for myself so it'd be just dandy if you could go ahead and tell me what the Lisbon Treaty has to do with any of this.

twinytwo

My name is URL wrote: »

I wonder if the next treaty will be passed..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8885498/EU-turmoil-revives-calls-for-referendum.html

give the eu more power to do what they want.... i refuse to believe that the people in this country are that slow.... they couldnt honestly vote yes could they?

Morlar

My name is URL wrote: »

I wonder if the next treaty will be passed..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8885498/EU-turmoil-revives-calls-for-referendum.html

I'd say No. That's why they will find some sort of an excuse to avoid giving us a refferendum on any upcoming treaty changes. Either that, or resort to the level of economic scaremongering they resorted to the last time round in Lisbon#2.

twinytwo

amacachi wrote: »

You implied that somehow voting in favour of the Lisbon Treaty led to where we are now. How? Enlighten us because I'm obviously just one of the sheeple who can't think for myself so it'd be just dandy if you could go ahead and tell me what the Lisbon Treaty has to do with any of this.

it was more to do with handing away power, considering owe government does what suits them rather than whats best for the people, than they actual treaty itself.

Wertz

lol 2%? Wave good bye to another swathe of retail jobs then.

There's fuel up by 10 cent a litre next month by the time you allow for carbon levy and extra VAT.

ShooterSF

Can someone explain why no party ever thinks to try increasing income tax and lowering VAT? People would have less in their pockets but still be able to buy as much and would spend it in Ireland and our online stores could become ultra competitive.

amacachi

twinytwo wrote: »

it was more to do with handing away power, considering owe government does what suits them rather than whats best for the people, than they actual treaty itself.

What power did we hand over in that treaty that affects what's happened?

twinytwo

amacachi wrote: »

What power did we hand over in that treaty that affects what's happened?

its has nothing to do with the past, it will however have a massive affect on the future.

mikom

Wertz wrote: »

lol 2%? Wave good bye to another swathe of retail jobs then.

There's fuel up by 10 cent a litre next month by the time you allow for carbon levy and extra VAT.

The vat rate hike will also affect road tolls and parking charges.
This country is going nowhere.

amacachi

twinytwo wrote: »

its has nothing to do with the past, it will however have a massive affect on the future.

So it was an accidental implication on your part that sheeple like me voting in favour of Lisbon had something to do with what's happened so far and that so far it's actually a complete irrelevance? Glad we cleared that up.

ArmaniJeanss

Morlar wrote: »

Each time all the boards.ie experts lined up around the block to pronounce the ridiculousness of those views.

Biggins wrote: »

I remember it well!
Where are they now!

This is really some ridiculous drivel there.

Boards politics forum, the old Economics forum and the Accomodation & Property was an absolute oasis of sanity in the sea of investment property supplements and tv programs in the media, and 'get on the ladder before its too late' rubbish down the local pub.

Whilst there were definitely some 'the boom is getting boomier' posters, the majority of the well written posts were bearish in nature - it was through boards.ie that I learned how about the relationship between rent and purchase price, about how prices here compared to those in other European Capitals, about the history of property bubbles in London and Tokyo, about bubbles as far back in the 18th century.

Those forums definitely saved me from some bad investment decisions - its garbage to suddenly claim that everyone on politics, economics etc was a fanboy of the boom.

twinytwo

amacachi wrote: »

So it was an accidental implication on your part that sheeple like me voting in favour of Lisbon had something to do with what's happened so far and that so far it's actually a complete irrelevance? Glad we cleared that up.

panties in a twist much?

When did i mention anything about the lisbon treaty being the cause of the problems?

I did mention about us handing away what little power we had... which will affect us in the future, because like i said there are no honest men in power.

But sure twist it whatever way you want.

Biggins

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

...its garbage to suddenly claim that everyone on politics, economics etc was a fanboy of the boom.

Who said "everyone" ???

amacachi

twinytwo wrote: »

panties in a twist much?

When did i mention anything about the lisbon treaty being the cause of the problems?

I did mention about us handing away what little power we had... which will affect us in the future, because like i said there are no honest men in power.

But sure twist it whatever way you want.

As I said, Lisbon has nothing whatsoever to do with the current predicament so why bring it up? It also has nothing to do with how we handle this. If there was a genuine desire in this country to close the 40% deficit overnight we would've defaulted by now. I find it funny how it's those who would lose most in a default are often most in favour of it. I'm in favour of one because I'm young and haven't really gotten started yet. To people with kids and so on I find it completely laughable when they start complaining.

fenris

You know the special "everyone" that is kind of like "they" that helps people to avoid facing up to their own decisions or prejudices? - that one!

cherryghost

Reduce the VAT, stop people from shopping outside of ROI, increase revenue from VAT.

OR

Increase the VAT, stop people from shopping in ROI, extra revenue won't happen, will probably fall flat.


Problem?

ArmaniJeanss

Biggins wrote: »

Who said "everyone" ???

The poster whose post you thanked and subsequently quoted in agreement.

'All the boards.ie experts lined up around the block' to disagree with his 'the bubble will burst' prediction apparently.

Morlar

Enderman wrote: »

Reduce the VAT, stop people from shopping outside of ROI, increase revenue from VAT.

OR

Increase the VAT, stop people from shopping in ROI, extra revenue won't happen, will probably fall flat.


Problem?

This looks to be a way of generating revenue while not increasing direct income tax.


Rte just 10 mins ago picked this story up :
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1117/budget.html

In equally hairy news :
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1117/eurozone.html

Spain's borrowing costs shot to a euro-era record of 6.975% in an auction of sovereign debt this morning.

Chucky the tree

Morlar wrote: »

I don't know about you but I said NO to Lisbon twice, I also said 'the bubble would burst'. Each time all the boards.ie experts lined up around the block to pronounce the ridiculousness of those views.

So then explain why a yes to lisbon was bad?

Biggins

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The poster whose post you thanked and subsequently quoted in agreement.

'All the boards.ie experts lined up around the block' to disagree with his 'the bubble will burst' prediction apparently.

I read that as the Boards.ie experts that was espousing that our power (to self-govern/determination) would be not effected - not all experts full stop!

Morlar

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The poster whose post you thanked and subsequently quoted in agreement.

'All the boards.ie experts lined up around the block' to disagree with his 'the bubble will burst' prediction apparently.

What I said was this :

Morlar wrote: »

I don't know about you but I said NO to Lisbon twice, I also said 'the bubble would burst'. Each time all the boards.ie experts lined up around the block to pronounce the ridiculousness of those views.

Which was and remains correct. I did not say EVERY SINGLE POSTER on boards. You are taking what was actually said, twisting it around, removing one part while adding more then saying 'a-ha That's Wrong'. Pathetic.

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

I read that as the Boards.ie experts that was espousing that our power (to self-govern/determination) would be not effected - not all experts full stop!

And what exactly tells you that that's actually happened? Lisbon is a complete irrelevance.

psychward

just nuke the bastards. we are all equal now thanks to Einstein and Oppenheimer

veloc123

God Bless the 4th Reich where Paddy Murphy gets upgraded to Helmut Mueller..AND gets a fancy moustache...woohoo..

Wertz

amacachi wrote: »

As I said, Lisbon has nothing whatsoever to do with the current predicament so why bring it up? It also has nothing to do with how we handle this. If there was a genuine desire in this country to close the 40% deficit overnight we would've defaulted by now. I find it funny how it's those who would lose most in a default are often most in favour of it. I'm in favour of one because I'm young and haven't really gotten started yet. To people with kids and so on I find it completely laughable when they start complaining.

No it's more to do with Maastricht and Nice which if you didn't vote for, (not just you amacachi) your parents did...that's how far this goes back. We were all told we need european integration, single currency blah blah...lisbon was just another step across the river...right now we're at a point where the only way all this mess can possibly work is by taking some very quick hops and steps to get to the other side... but who in their right mind here (or in many other EU countries) is going to ratify any more changes to lisbon or whatever they call it? They know this so it won't even go to referendums: something that was always predicted by the No to Lisbon camp...

cherryghost

They're discussing it on The Last Word right now

twinytwo

amacachi wrote: »

As I said, Lisbon has nothing whatsoever to do with the current predicament so why bring it up? It also has nothing to do with how we handle this. If there was a genuine desire in this country to close the 40% deficit overnight we would've defaulted by now. I find it funny how it's those who would lose most in a default are often most in favour of it. I'm in favour of one because I'm young and haven't really gotten started yet. To people with kids and so on I find it completely laughable when they start complaining.

How can u say it has nothing to do with how we handle it?... the eu will come up with amendments etc etc to try to counteract the problem. These will be to look after france and germany and the euro.

Considering france and germeny will always vote together.. italy greece and spain are in their back pockets and the sheer fact that no govement will oppose them, with the exception of hopefully england... you see this as ok?

Biggins

amacachi wrote: »

And what exactly tells you that that's actually happened? Lisbon is a complete irrelevance.

Well to be honest, when foreign powers are given/leaked (?) our own budget - it does indeed undermine our ability to self-govern our own country and/or decided for ourselves what methods of progress are best applicable!

Getting back on topic - HOW in gods name did the details get so open and who passed them along - and WHY???

Its not an embarrassment for Germany - its one more for Ireland.

ArmaniJeanss

Morlar wrote: »

I don't know about you but I said NO to Lisbon twice, I also said 'the bubble would burst'. Each time all the boards.ie experts lined up around the block to pronounce the ridiculousness of those views.

Morlar wrote: »

What I said was this :

Which was and remains correct. I did not say EVERY SINGLE POSTER on boards. You are taking what was actually said, twisting it around, removing one part while adding more then saying 'a-ha That's Wrong'. Pathetic.

Theres your full quote. You are clearly saying that all the boards.ie experts disagreed with your 'the bubble will bust' prediction, making yourself out to be some sort of lone ranger.

I'm stating that the opposite is true, that boards back in 2005/06, specifically Politics, Accom/Property and Economics was one of the most negative boards going, economically speaking. The majority of posters were predicting that the end of the boom was imminent.

Wertz

Doubt it was a leak Biggins... there's probably something in the memorandum of understanding where this is a stipulation...who can blame them when they're effectively bankrolling the most of the budget via ECB loans?

I'm far more concerned about the 2% (and not just for selfish reasons) than the germans seing the budget...that's the way everything#s headed anyway...

Paparazzo

Why all the Germany hate? We're the ones that made a complete bollocks of out country, not Germany.

amacachi

Wertz wrote: »

No it's more to do with Maastricht and Nice which if you didn't vote for your (not just you ama) parents did...that's how far this goes back. We were all told we need european integration, single currency blah blah...lisbon was just another step across the river...right now we're at a point where the only way all this mess can possibly work is by taking some very quick hops and steps to get to the other side... but who in their right mind here (or in many other EU countries) is going to ratify any more changes to lisbon or whatever they call it? They know this so it won't even go to referendums: something that was always predicted by the No to Lisbon camp...

If we had any common sense over the last 20 year we would've voted yes to all of them and still been fine. Unfortunately we wanted more and more and more and voted appropriately.

twinytwo wrote: »

How can u say it has nothing to do with how we handle it?... the eu will come up with amendments etc etc to try to counteract the problem. These will be to look after france and germany and the euro.

Considering france and germeny will always vote together.. italy greece and spain are in their back pockets and the sheer fact that no govement will oppose them, with the exception of hopefully england... you see this as ok?

Again, find me one single thing in the Lisbon treaty that changes how things are going now compared to if we'd voted "No". If there was no EU it'd be purely IMF which probably wouldn't be awesome.

Biggins wrote: »

Well to be honest, when foreign powers are given/leaked (?) our own budget - it does indeed undermine our ability to self-govern our own country and/or decided for ourselves what methods of progress are best applicable!

We did that ourselves over and over again. This country is like the naughty child who doesn't want "punishment".