Medjugorje

holyhead

Hello, I'm new to this forum on boards. I was in Medjugorje this year as part of a day tour from Dubrovnik. I must say I was very impressed. Would'nt be overtly religious but I got a feeling when there. I guess a feeling of tranquility/calm which was really special. Did quite a bit of reading both books and online and its really captured my imagination. Seriously considering going back again.

soterpisc

Its what has happened to many of us. Once you got there or meet the visionaries a lot pf perceptions change.

Onesimus

Great Holyhead, Dont worry. You have just entered a forum full of unreligious people striving to be more religious every day. We are the most unholy Christians striving for Holiness every day of our lives.

I'm glad you have had a touching experience in Medjugorje. You are not the first and of course will not be the last. I've been there too just like yourself and I went back a second time I loved it.

For anyone who would like a real in depth look at Medjugorje then this youtube video will really help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF4o_pFG9WI

holyhead

Onsimus, what I find fascinating is the level of scepticism surrounding Medjugorje. True I couldn't go before a judge and prove the apparitions to be real. However a number of things seem to indicate that there is something about the apparitions:

1. A number of cluster? bombs were dropped on Medjugorje during the war post break up of Yugoslavia. NONE EXPLODED!
2. The church that was completed, I believe in 1969, was far bigger than what was required to facilitate the needs of the parish. HOW COME?
3. One of visionaries predicted she would get I think a tumour and predicted when she would get the all clear. HOW COULD SHE KNOW THIS?
4. My own sense of calm and tranquility which defies logic and is difficult of accurately express in words. Remember I ain't a holy Joe

Onesimus

Onsimus, what I find fascinating is the level of scepticism surrounding Medjugorje. True I couldn't go before a judge and prove the apparitions to be real. However a number of things seem to indicate that there is something about the apparitions:

This scepticism is to be expected Holyhead. We have this equivelant in the pharisees scepticisms of Jesus himself upon whether or not he was the Messiah. If you also look at the accounts of the saints throughout history both scepticism towards them came from within and without the Church.

1. A number of cluster? bombs were dropped on Medjugorje during the war post break up of Yugoslavia. NONE EXPLODED!
2. The church that was completed, I believe in 1969, was far bigger than what was required to facilitate the needs of the parish. HOW COME?

Without any orginal evidence of the above I can only respond to them as just rumours you have heard for now. Theoretical rumours to be more precise.

3. One of visionaries predicted she would get I think a tumour and predicted when she would get the all clear. HOW COULD SHE KNOW THIS?
4. My own sense of calm and tranquility which defies logic and is difficult of accurately express in words. Remember I ain't a holy Joe

Whether or not she predicted the tumour is something I'm vague on. I think the story goes that Our Lady told Vicka that the Lord would give her this tumour and then miracoulsy remove it and this is how vicka knew she would be ok. So doctors and scientists in Mostar examined her and proved scientifically that she had a brain tumour. When she was cured the doctors then examined her again only to see that she was completely cured of the tumour and they were baffled.

Your own calm and peace that defies all words of explanation can never be explained. it is Our Ladys gift to you.

tommy2bad

1. A number of cluster? bombs were dropped on Medjugorje during the war post break up of Yugoslavia. NONE EXPLODED!
Good Luck
2. The church that was completed, I believe in 1969, was far bigger than what was required to facilitate the needs of the parish. HOW COME?
Ambition of a local PP
3. One of visionaries predicted she would get I think a tumour and predicted when she would get the all clear. HOW COULD SHE KNOW THIS?
Before the event, no way. After, the same as anyone hindsight
4. My own sense of calm and tranquility which defies logic and is difficult of accurately express in words. Remember I ain't a holy Joe
I get the same feeling at Glendalough

See theirs an answer for everything if you don't believe:p
And if you do, I cant for the life of me see the need for apparitions.

holyhead

Tommy you are as entitled to your specticism as I am to my beliefs. No one, including you, will ever remove from me the sense of calm I felt at Medjugorje. I feel lucky to have been there and stand by the points I made. Ridicule all you like but my belief in what I saw and read stands.

tommy2bad

holyhead wrote: »

Tommy you are as entitled to your specticism as I am to my beliefs. No one, including you, will ever remove from me the sense of calm I felt at Medjugorje. I feel lucky to have been there and stand by the points I made. Ridicule all you like but my belief in what I saw and read stands.

No you misunderstand, I am not ridiculing your experience, I am presenting an other view.
Remember I said I get the same from Glendalough.
What I am puzzled by is why the apparitions in the first place, theirs nothing new in any of the 'revelations', the whole secrets thing is a bit suspect, why not announce what is foretold and we could all see if their true or not.
I think we are going to have to wait and see what fruit is born of these events to judge their value.

holyhead

Tommy have you been to Medjugorje. I have also been to Glendalough which is nice 'n' all but it ain't Medjugorje. Its hard to explain the sensation you get when your in Medjugorje. Calm as a word, doesn't really do it justice. Such a feeling of security, as if everything is ok, all is calm and simply serene. Its a place I heard about growing up but never thought I would get there as it was in what was then Yugoslavia which seemed so far away and cut off. Really glad I got there. Will go back I think and climb the hill of the apparitions fingers crossed!

soterpisc

holyhead wrote: »

Its hard to explain the sensation you get when your in Medjugorje. Calm as a word, doesn't really do it justice.

I have heard the same thing from dozens of People.

laoch na mona

the calm could just be the power of your mind similar to the placebo effect

Keaton

I get that sense of calm and peace in my local Catholic church on a Saturday afternoon. What is in Medjugorje that is not to be found in all the tabernacles of the world?

''He who has God Finds he lacks nothing: God alone suffices.”
- St. Teresa of Avila quote

soterpisc

Keaton wrote: »

I get that sense of calm and peace in my local Catholic church on a Saturday afternoon. What is in Medjugorje that is not to be found in all the tabernacles of the world?

''He who has God Finds he lacks nothing: God alone suffices.”
- St. Teresa of Avila quote

I agree, many Catholics have never gone, I like the Quote... Solo Dios Basta... Nada le falta.

The whole phenomenon of medjugorje has been strange for me, i have gone from being totally against it to believing to not sure...on balance more speaks to me pointing to it as being true.... Certainly it has touched many millions...

The Quadratic Equation

holyhead wrote: »

Its hard to explain the sensation you get when your in Medjugorje. Calm as a word, doesn't really do it justice. Such a feeling of security, as if everything is ok, all is calm and simply serene.

I don't wish to dampen your experience, but be careful.

The Pope has already warned Cardinal Schönborn to be careful about Medjugorje.

Catholics that have a side intrest in private revelations, would be far better, and safer, to do proper research on the subject, and focus on the church approved messages of Lourdes and Fatima.

At the end of the day, fully understanding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and attending just one, will do far more for you than any unapproved Marian apparition.

And before you think I am not pro Marian, I am. I have a great devotion to the Rosary, a most powerful Christcentric prayer. Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through him.

Good Article Here :

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/privaterevelation/privater.htm

Even when private revelations have been approved by the Church, this only means that they do not contain anything contrary to faith and morals and that there is sufficient evidence to justify belief in their authenticity; The Church does not, and can not, impose belief in a private revelation and its contents.

If we were to believe every "seer" and "visionary" who came along, then Our Lady is appearing daily in one place or another and giving contradictory messages to the faithful. Further, Jesus warns us about the "false prophets" and this is another reason why we must be very careful about such dubious revelations.

We can thus see that this work of the devil is nothing new as even our days millions of simple, pious people have been led into error by so-called 'apparitions'. Many of these are nothing else than clever traps of Satan who as St John of the Cross further warns " Transforms himself into an Angel of Light for the sake of deception" 2 Corinthians 11:14 (Ascent of Mount Carmel Chapter 37) .

One of the most famous cases of this in Church history is that of Madelane de la Croix in the 16th Century who was the "Franciscan nun of Cordova, dedicated to the Devil from infancy, who, for 30 years, deceived the greatest theologians, Bishops and Cardinals. She had a reputation as a Prophet, as a holy person and a miracle worker. She spoke continuously of the need to do penance. On the strength of this, people flocked to the Sacraments. She was unmasked by blessed Acarie, who proved without doubt' that the Devil was the author f everything extraordinary about her, and that he (the Devil) could lose a little in order to gain much. (Madame Acarie by J.B Boucher - "History of Religious sentiment" Pg. 69-79)

The above may be object to by some who say that Satan wouldn't ask us to pray would he? Yes indeed he would, as Satan give some ground in order to gain much (ones soul) as by receiving true doctrine one may come to the Knowledge of the truth and be saved (1 Tim 2:4) . Further this is confirmed to us in the scriptures when Satan even quoted from the scriptures in order to try and deceive Christ. Let also note that Our Lord himself condemned the Pharisees of old who demanded a sign saying to them that "An evil and adulterous generation demands a sign' (Matt. 12:38).

Onesimus

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I don't wish to dampen your experience, but be careful.

The Pope has already warned Cardinal Schönborn to be careful about Medjugorje.

Catholics that have a side intrest in private revelations, would be far better, and safer, to do proper research on the subject, and focus on the church approved messages of Lourdes and Fatima.

At the end of the day, fully understanding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and attending just one, will do far more for you than any unapproved Marian apparition.

Good Article Here :

Was it wise for the Apostles to follow Jesus when he was not yet approved of by the synagogue and those who sat in the seat of Moses the OT of St.Peter?

The Quadratic Equation

Onesimus wrote: »

Was it wise for the Apostles to follow Jesus when he was not yet approved of by the synagogue and those who sat in the seat of Moses the OT of St.Peter?

I don't know what you think you're following in Medjugorje, but until the Church declares it safe you are not following Jesus. There is only one narrow path. Stick to it brother. God Bless.

Onesimus

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I don't know what you think you're following, but you're not following Jesus in Medjugorje, until the Church declares it safe. There is only one narrow path. Stick to it.

Thats what they thought of the apostles too. ''I dont know what it is you are following but it definitely isnt the messiah'' and they still think that to this day.

If the Church does not even require us to believe in private revelation even though it's approved, then whats the point in waving around the banner of ''Dont believe in it unless it's approved''?

soterpisc

Onesimus wrote: »

Thats what they thought of the apostles too. ''I dont know what it is you are following but it definitely isnt the messiah'' and they still think that to this day.

If the Church does not even require us to believe in private revelation even though it's approved, then whats the point in waving around the banner of ''Dont believe in it unless it's approved''?

Correct.. Knock, fatima, lourdes are not dogmas of Faith. But they are reminders to humanity.

The Quadratic Equation

Onesimus wrote: »

If the Church does not even require us to believe in private revelation even though it's approved, then whats the point in waving around the banner of ''Dont believe in it unless it's approved''?

Read that carefully, and honestly tell me has your thinking not been turned on its head ?

Since when is the declaration a message is safe, and not contary to Catholic faith and morals not required ?

Onesimus

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Read that carefully, and honestly tell me has your thinking not been turned on its head ?

Since when is the declaration a message is safe, and not contary to Catholic faith and morals not required ?

In the case of Jesus Christ himself!!! You still have not answered my first question to you.

Since when has the CDF ( Not the private opinion of a Bishop ) ever told us never to believe in a private revelation that is not approved of by the Church?

Never!!! The Church permits us to believe ( as long as we dont promote it as an approved apparition by them ) until they emphatically pronounce that it is in major error and false. And even then the CDF often get it wrong as in the case with St.Faustina, they banned her Diary as false until Pope John Paul II called for it's approval.

Soterpisc they are not just reminders of humanity they are visits from Christs Mother. There are certain apparitions such as Knock and Lourdes that are private revelation. But there is a big difference between Private revelation and prophecy. St.paul emphatically reminds us in scripture never to suppress the spirit of Prophecy. Why ? because we are in danger of the unforgiveable sin against the Holy Spirit, because when you supress Prophecy you are supressing the Spirit.

In the case of Fatima, it took them many years to approve the apparitions and many bishops offered their private opinion like that of Medjugorje that it was false and yet the result of this suppression of prophecy of Fatima it meant we were punished with two world wars and much more.

Fatima, Garabandal and Medjugorje had their elements of Private revelation but also prophecy as in secrets which makes them completely different to private revelations such as knock. These warnings of Fatima, Garabandal and Medjugorje should not be ignored.

Onesimus

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

How can they untill they investigate it ? and since when were you able to declare a private revelation is not contary to the faith, morals and teachings of the Church ?

Since when were the apostles able to declare Jesus Christs message contrary to Faith and Morals?

Give it up Quadratic. Your replies are becoming Childish, tedious and tiresome.

it took seven years to investigate Fatima, this should not have happened, and it's taken over 30 years for them to launch a definitive investigation upon Medjugorje, this should not have happened either which tells us that there is more going on within the Roman Curia than we know of.

and the fact that St.Faustinas writings were banned are a perfect example of that.

Onesimus

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

Since when were the apostles able to declare Jesus Christs message contrary to Faith and Morals?

Give it up Quadratic. Your replies are becoming Childish, tedious and tiresome.

it took seven years to investigate Fatima, this should not have happened, and it's taken over 30 years for them to launch a definitive investigation upon Medjugorje, this should not have happened either which tells us that there is more going on within the Roman Curia than we know of.

and the fact that St.Faustinas writings were banned are a perfect example of that.

Onesimus

My allegiance is to Jesus and his Church on earth - and to the persons given the ancestory keys that are passed on i.e. the Church and those who inherit them..The Pope is the equivalent of Davids prime minister..the 'keys' are very important biblically..since they bind all.

When the Church decides that the seers in Medjugorje are inline with the Gospels, I will be happy to pay heed - other than that, the simple prayer to Our Lady will suffice to ask her intercession and request her prayers, no matter where I ask her to pray...

That is..

Our Lady, full of Grace,
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now, and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

My allegiance is to Jesus and his Church on earth - and to the persons given the ancestory keys that are passed on i.e. the Church and those who inherit them..The Pope is the equivalent of Davids prime minister..the 'keys' are very important biblically..since they bind all.

When the Church decides that the seers in Medjugorje are inline with the Gospels, I will be happy to pay heed - other than that, the simple prayer to Our Lady will suffice to ask her intercession and request her prayers, no matter where I ask her to pray...

That is..

Our Lady, full of Grace,
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now, and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

And my allegience is to Christ and his Church also and the Church that I obey has never told me never to believe in a private revelation that has not been yet approved or investigated by them yet, only to proceed with caution at all times. This does not translate to your foolish opinion that the Church does not permit us to believe in an apparition until approved by them. Yet the Church allows you to have this position also but dont be spreading your false belief to others that ''Dont believe in this until the Church approves it.''

yet the beautiful Church that I obey and my ancestors have obeyed also have often gotten it wrong down through history the most recent being St.Faustina and the same with many pharisees who thought they were being so obedient to God, and yet in their misguided zeal for his house they crucified him and slayed the prophets before him. And today in the Church, in many Catholics misguided Zeal for his house, they continue to Crucify him by their suppression of the Spirit and his seers whom he still sends us to warn us of whats coming.

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

And my allegience is to Christ and his Church also and the Church that I obey has never told me never to believe in a private revelation that has not been yet approved or investigated by them yet, only to proceed with caution at all times. This does not translate to your foolish opinion that the Church does not permit us to believe in an apparition until approved by them. Yet the Church allows you to have this position also but dont be spreading your false belief to others that ''Dont believe in this until the Church approves it.''

yet the beautiful Church that I obey and my ancestors have obeyed also have often gotten it wrong down through history the most recent being St.Faustina and the same with many pharisees who thought they were being so obedient to God, and yet in their misguided zeal for his house they crucified him and slayed the prophets before him. And today in the Church, in many Catholics misguided Zeal for his house, they continue to Crucify him by their suppression of the Spirit and his seers whom he still sends us to warn us of whats coming.

Oneismus, there is a time for everything under the Sun...

Let's not judge eachother....but celebrate together.

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Oneismus, there is a time for everything under the Sun...

Let's not judge eachother....but celebrate together.

I have judged nobodys person but their opinions/arguments so....lets not imply that Onesimus or anyone for that matter in this thread has been judging anyones person.

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

I have judged nobodys person but their opinions/arguments so....lets not imply that Onesimus or anyone for that matter in this thread has been judging anyones person.

Fair enough....

You do realise that Our Lady holds a special place to anybody who asks for her intercession though, her prayers? Our Lady of Lourdes, Knock, Fatima is one and the same person...

Our Lady said she would be called 'blessed' for generations - Amen, she is most especially called blessed by us...

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Fair enough....

You do realise that Our Lady holds a special place to anybody to asks for her intercession though? Our Lady of Lourdes, Knock, Fatima is one and the same person...

Our Lady said she would be called 'blessed' for generations - Amen, she is most especially called blessed by us...

Of course she is the One and the same Lady, But our Lady Of Fatima carried a different Message than that of Our Lady of Lourdes. If we reject the message of Fatima and yet accept her message of Lourdes, we reject not Only Our Lady but the Son as well. For those who do not Have Our Lady for his/her mother do not have God for his/her Father.

God bless
Onesimus

Keaton

Onesimus wrote: »

Never!!! The Church permits us to believe ( as long as we dont promote it as an approved apparition by them ) until they emphatically pronounce that it is in major error and false. And even then the CDF often get it wrong as in the case with St.Faustina, they banned her Diary as false until Pope John Paul II called for it's approval.

In the case of Fatima, it took them many years to approve the apparitions and many bishops offered their private opinion like that of Medjugorje that it was false and yet the result of this suppression of prophecy of Fatima it meant we were punished with two world wars and much more.

Fatima, Garabandal and Medjugorje had their elements of Private revelation but also prophecy as in secrets which makes them completely different to private revelations such as knock. These warnings of Fatima, Garabandal and Medjugorje should not be ignored.

The Zadar declaration is the latest official Church statement on Medjugorje.

DECLARATION

From the very beginning, the Bishops have been following the events of Medjugorje through the local Bishop, the Bishops’ Commission and the Commission of the Bishops’ Conference of Yugoslavia for Medjugorje.

On the bas[is] of studies made so far, it cannot be affirmed [non constat de supernaturalitate - see footnote2] that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations.

Yet the gathering of the faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted. The Bishops will also provide special liturgical and pastoral directives corresponding to this aim. At the same time, they will continue to study all the events of Medjugorje through the commissions.

Zadar, 10 April 1991
The Bishops of Yugoslavia”


[A few notes worth considering:

The non constat de supernaturalitate status clearly leaves open the room for further data to be considered, while at the same time also making clear, that nothing examined up to the time of this commission indicated anything of supernatural origin.
Since this did not receive an absolute negative judgment (constat de non supernaturalitate), the declaration comprehends that visitors will need pastoral care.
The declaration did not give permission for a cult following of "Our Lady of Medjugorje" to develop3, something which by right, belongs to the competent authority, in this case the Bishop's Conference of Yugoslavia. Rather, the pastoral care, in part, was intended to enable a healthy devotion to Our Lady according to the teachings of the Church (Encyclical Marialis Cultis).]

The world was punished after Fatima, not because 'prophecy was suppressed' but because man ignored the warning and did not abandon his sinful ways.

The Church proceeds with caution with any mystical phenomenon and carefully studies writings and events before giving approval. I don't know under what grounds you can claim the CDF 'got it wrong' with the Diary of St. Faustina. The safe course is to follow the guidance of the Church.

Onesimus

Keaton wrote: »

The Zadar declaration is the latest official Church statement on Medjugorje.

DECLARATION

From the very beginning, the Bishops have been following the events of Medjugorje through the local Bishop, the Bishops’ Commission and the Commission of the Bishops’ Conference of Yugoslavia for Medjugorje.

On the bas[is] of studies made so far, it cannot be affirmed [non constat de supernaturalitate - see footnote2] that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations.

Yet the gathering of the faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted. The Bishops will also provide special liturgical and pastoral directives corresponding to this aim. At the same time, they will continue to study all the events of Medjugorje through the commissions.

Zadar, 10 April 1991
The Bishops of Yugoslavia”


[A few notes worth considering:

The non constat de supernaturalitate status clearly leaves open the room for further data to be considered, while at the same time also making clear, that nothing examined up to the time of this commission indicated anything of supernatural origin.
Since this did not receive an absolute negative judgment (constat de non supernaturalitate), the declaration comprehends that visitors will need pastoral care.
The declaration did not give permission for a cult following of "Our Lady of Medjugorje" to develop3, something which by right, belongs to the competent authority, in this case the Bishop's Conference of Yugoslavia. Rather, the pastoral care, in part, was intended to enable a healthy devotion to Our Lady according to the teachings of the Church (Encyclical Marialis Cultis).]

The world was punished after Fatima, not because 'prophecy was suppressed' but because man ignored the warning and did not abandon his sinful ways.

The Church proceeds with caution with any mystical phenomenon and carefully studies writings and events before giving approval. I don't know under what grounds you can claim the CDF 'got it wrong' with the Diary of St. Faustina. The safe course is to follow the guidance of the Church.

The World was punished for ignoring and suppressing the Spirit of Prophecy Keaton. Our Lady didnt deliver the warning and then say ''Oh and by the way, you only need heed my warning until the Church officially approves it.''

Everyone knows that the CDF banned St.Faustinas Diary it's no hidden secret that they did and then John Paul II approved of it.

Regarding the Official Statement of Zadar. You need to carefully read that in light of Church teaching which can be found Here

You will have to scroll down to point number three given on the Zadar Statement in the link provided which explains it and then they conclude:

''Thus we now know the Church's current position, is as on a sliding scale between positive and neutral. First, we have pope John Paul II's strong support, which suggests positive favor. Then we have the allowing of private pilgrimages, which the norms state is equivalent to saying it is "favorable", and "for the moment nothing is opposed to it". Then we have the 1991 Bishops Conference, which ellicit a cautiously optistic tone, despite their inability to confirm supernatural origin. Therefore, the faithful are free to believe in Medjugorje, promote Medjugorje, and make pilgrimages to Medjugojre, while the process of verifcation continues. The Church apears hopeful, while still is reserving judgement until a final verdict is reached. This is the definitive and conclusive position of the Church at this moment in time, if there could be said to be one. ''

Keaton you and others have not seem to even visited Medjugorje and for the sake of pure argument are just sifting through ''google'' to see what you can find to trump my argument for Medjugorje. Go and study the apparitions at medjugorje, visit the place, see for yourself. For this reason it almost would seem as if I am trying to convince you of the apparitions, and this is not my job as a believer, my job is not to convince you, if you dont believe in it then Our Lady will simply wait until you are ready.

This is my last post concerning Medjugorje and I look forward to the outcome of the current investigation.

Onesimus

Keaton

Onesimus wrote: »

The World was punished for ignoring and suppressing the Spirit of Prophecy Keaton. Our Lady didnt deliver the warning and then say ''Oh and by the way, you only need heed my warning until the Church officially approves it.''

Everyone knows that the CDF banned St.Faustinas Diary it's no hidden secret that they did and then John Paul II approved of it.

Regarding the Official Statement of Zadar. You need to carefully read that in light of Church teaching which can be found Here

You will have to scroll down to point number three given on the Zadar Statement in the link provided which explains it and then they conclude:

''Thus we now know the Church's current position, is as on a sliding scale between positive and neutral. First, we have pope John Paul II's strong support, which suggests positive favor. Then we have the allowing of private pilgrimages, which the norms state is equivalent to saying it is "favorable", and "for the moment nothing is opposed to it". Then we have the 1991 Bishops Conference, which ellicit a cautiously optistic tone, despite their inability to confirm supernatural origin. Therefore, the faithful are free to believe in Medjugorje, promote Medjugorje, and make pilgrimages to Medjugojre, while the process of verifcation continues. The Church apears hopeful, while still is reserving judgement until a final verdict is reached. This is the definitive and conclusive position of the Church at this moment in time, if there could be said to be one. ''

Keaton you and others have not seem to even visited Medjugorje and for the sake of pure argument are just sifting through ''google'' to see what you can find to trump my argument for Medjugorje. Go and study the apparitions at medjugorje, visit the place, see for yourself. For this reason it almost would seem as if I am trying to convince you of the apparitions, and this is not my job as a believer, my job is not to convince you, if you dont believe in it then Our Lady will simply wait until you are ready.

This is my last post concerning Medjugorje and I look forward to the outcome of the current investigation.

Onesimus

I've seen no evidence that Pope JPII approved of Medj. There are a couple of unsubstantiated anecdotes that he said this or that. But anyhow, even if he was personally convinced, that is his own private opinion. The Zadar Declaration is the Church's last word on Medj thus far.

I was at Medj myself a couple years ago. I had a good look round. The only things that impressed me were the reverence for the Sacraments and the powerful preaching.

Newsite

Onesimus wrote: »

Was it wise for the Apostles to follow Jesus when he was not yet approved of by the synagogue and those who sat in the seat of Moses the OT of St.Peter?

I don't see the comparison....

Given that the neither the Bible nor Christ's words, does not call for us to worship or look to Mary at all, in any shape or form, I really do wonder about these things.

tommy2bad

Newsite wrote: »

I don't see the comparison....

Given that the neither the Bible nor Christ's words, does not call for us to worship or look to Mary at all, in any shape or form, I really do wonder about these things.

John 19:26-27 ?

Newsite

tommy2bad wrote: »

John 19:26-27 ?

Are you and Keaton seriously taking that as proof?

If so, clutching at straws wouldn't even do it justice I'm not sure how Jesus acknowledging his mother, an expression of His love for her, at the moment of His death can be mangled into a command to worship her?

Come back to me Tommy when you see Jesus worshipping His mother.

If you can show me one single verse in the entire Bible which points to Mary as anyone other than an ordinary woman with an extraordinary purpose, someone who was indeed full of grace, but still nonetheless a sinner who needed Jesus, I'd love to see it.

'for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,'


And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.'

PDN

Moderating Instruction
Let's not turn this into a Protestant/Catholic thing please.
If non-Catholics wish to argue with the RC doctrines about Mary then take it to the Protestant/Catholic megathread.

Doc Farrell

Although this may be hard to believe, technically Catholics don't worship Mary, see page 275 of a very good book called Catholicism for dummies, isbn 978111807778. They are devoted to her, the same with the saints. Believe me, it's all new to me too!

tommy2bad

Come back to me Tommy when you see Jesus worshipping His mother.

Yeah as Doc Farell pointed out we seem to be at cross purposes here.
Holding Mary in high regard isn't the same as worshiping her.
Lets not even get into the Immaculate Conception thing.
That passage is understood by caths as Jesus declaring Mary as a mother for all mankind which in a way isn't inappropriate. Once again we are back to the position the bible is held in defining what is and isn't kosher.

Malena72

Young friends of mine are in Medjugorje this week, there is a youth festival going on there, and I just googled 'mladi fest medjugorje' and clicked on radio mir, and then clicked on the english flag for english translation....and I just cannot believe the massive crowd that is there right now for the vigil Mass, must be 100,000 and apparently tonight after the Mass there will be a play or a concert given by recovering drug addicts and I heard its fantastic. So I will try to hear/see this! (Mladi Fest means youth festival in their language!)

totus tuus

Malena72 wrote: »

Young friends of mine are in Medjugorje this week, there is a youth festival going on there, and I just googled 'mladi fest medjugorje' and clicked on radio mir, and then clicked on the english flag for english translation....and I just cannot believe the massive crowd that is there right now for the vigil Mass, must be 100,000 and apparently tonight after the Mass there will be a play or a concert given by recovering drug addicts and I heard its fantastic. So I will try to hear/see this! (Mladi Fest means youth festival in their language!)

A huge crowd for sure.....see link!

http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/6528/80000-expected-for-youth-festival/

Mikeyt086

Just wanted to chime in, I saw the thread on the home page, first time in the Christianity forum.

I'm 23 at the moment, when I was 17 in 2007 I went on a pilgrimage as part of a school trip to Medjugorje. We went as about 25 fairly weak Christians, weak as in we never went to mass apart from in school, we were pretty much non-practising Catholics, almost all of us went because it had the potential to be a laugh. But when we got there, I dont know what it was, but every single one of us absolutely loved the place. The people there were the friendliest I've ever met in my life, we did at least one religious activity each day we were there (5 days I think) and imagine a group of 16/17 year olds who don't care much for religion being made do activities? You would think we would all be too cool to care or give a half-assed attempted at being interested, but it was the opposite, we absolutely loved every minute of it. We climbed the mountain, went to mass, saw the weeping Jesus statue, visited the drug addict rehab group and we did everything with incredible enthusiasm.

There definitely is something special about the place, although it didn't make me embrace my religion in the long term, the week I spent there was unforgettable. Honestly everybody came home a much happier person.

We were the first group to go from our school and now it is a yearly tradition for 5th year students which is considered one of the highlights of the year.

Great place.