Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours

who_ru

Mick to return then?

devotional1993

who_ru wrote: »

Mick to return then?

Hopefully, but the poor fellas ass will end up in master butcher Dunphy's bacon slicer within a year:mad:

yabadabado

I would prefer if Mick didn't get the job.I liked him as a coach but I would rather we didn't go after him.
New start for someone ,there would be plenty hoping McCarthy failed before a ball was kicked.
Whoever comes in cannot be a quick fix,we need someone who will have us competitive while also blooding new players/youngsters.If we are second seeds for Euro 2016 the new coach has a great opportunity to get to a tournament.

klose

Down one place to 60th in the fifa rankings yay

bohsfan

Just had a look at the updated UEFA rankings there- we are currently 19th which, when you exclude France, will see us just about scrape in as second seeds for Euro 2016.

It puts the win the other night in perspective, as my rough mathematics suggest that a draw in that match would have seen us ranked 21st behind Turkey and Serbia.

The only fly in the ointment is Romania- they have 2 matches coming up which could potentially up their average and see them overtake us...

darragh16

who_ru wrote: »

Mick to return then?

I like Mick but I wouldn't like to see him return. Whats been done is done and I think we shouldn't hire him second time around. The knives would be out for Mick in some quarters. Would be nice to have someone new at management with fresh ideas in my opinion

yabadabado

bohsfan wrote: »

Just had a look at the updated UEFA rankings there- we are currently 19th which, when you exclude France, will see us just about scrape in as second seeds for Euro 2016.

It puts the win the other night in perspective, as my rough mathematics suggest that a draw in that match would have seen us ranked 21st behind Turkey and Serbia.

The only fly in the ointment is Romania- they have 2 matches coming up which could potentially up their average and see them overtake us...

Romania have to win their 2 playoff games or we are 2 seeds.They aren't seeded in the playoffs so they will get one of the tougher ties.

roanoke

yabadabado wrote: »

Romania have to win their 2 playoff games or we are 2 seeds.They aren't seeded in the playoffs so they will get one of the tougher ties.

Damn these coefficients seem needlessly convoluted!

I was studying the calculation method myself just now for the first time to see how they come up with the scores (eg Ireland are currently on '26733') and one funny thing I discovered was that if Ireland had just got 2x 0-0 draws vs Estonia and then lost on penos (meaning Estonia took our place in the Euro 2012 finals) then we'd actually have a higher coefficient right now (27173) and be safely in the second seeds for 2016.

So much for rewarding achievement! :eek:

noodler

roanoke wrote: »

I discovered was that if Ireland had just got 2x 0-0 draws vs Estonia and then lost on penos (meaning Estonia took our place in the Euro 2012 finals) then we'd actually have a higher coefficient right now (27173) and be safely in the second seeds for 2016.

So beating Estonia 4-0 and drawing with them 1-1 got us less points then two scoreless draws with them?

That can't be right?

SantryRed

noodler wrote: »

So beating Estonia 4-0 and drawing with them 1-1 got us less points then two scoreless draws with them?

That can't be right?

Must be to do with the losses in the Euros I'd imagine.

roanoke

noodler wrote: »

So beating Estonia 4-0 and drawing with them 1-1 got us less points then two scoreless draws with them?

That can't be right?

SantryRed wrote: »

Must be to do with the losses in the Euros I'd imagine.

Exactly!

(In case anyone's interested) Here's how I think Ireland's current score (26733) is calculated............

Comp|team|P|W|D|L|F|A||(P x10k)|(W x 30k)|(D x 10k)|(F x 501)|(A x -500)|bonus||sum|average|weight
WC2010| Republic of Ireland|12|4|7|1|13|10||120000|120000|70000|6513|-5000|12000||323513|26959.4166666667|5391.88333333333
EC2012| Republic of Ireland|15|7|4|4|21|17||150000|210000|40000|10521|-8500|39000||441021|29401.4|11760.56
WC2014| Republic of Ireland|10|4|2|4|16|17||100000|120000|20000|8016|-8500|0||239516|23951.6|9580.64
||||||||||||||||||26733.0833333333


==

Now here's a hypothetical if we had 2x 0-0's v Estonia and missed out on qualification for Euro 2012. ...............

Comp|team|P|W|D|L|F|A||(P x10k)|(W x 30k)|(D x 10k)|(F x 501)|(A x -500)|bonus||sum|average|weight
WC2010| Republic of Ireland|12|4|7|1|13|10||120000|120000|70000|6513|-5000|12000||323513|26959.4166666667|5391.88333333333
EC2012| Republic of Ireland|12|6|5|1|15|7||120000|180000|50000|7515|-3500|12000||366015|30501.25|12200.5
WC2014| Republic of Ireland|10|4|2|4|16|17||100000|120000|20000|8016|-8500|0||239516|23951.6|9580.64
||||||||||||||||||27173.0233333333


==

I make it that Romania would have to win both legs of their upcoming play-off by an aggregate score of something like 19-0 to finish higher than 27173 whereas 2x 1-0's for them will be enough to beat 26733.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there!

briany

darragh16 wrote: »

I like Mick but I wouldn't like to see him return. Whats been done is done and I think we shouldn't hire him second time around. The knives would be out for Mick in some quarters. Would be nice to have someone new at management with fresh ideas in my opinion

We could do worse than Mick. Kerr, for one.

I'd like to see a manager come in who will try to make the team progressive and play a passing game, not necessarily because I think it'll work but just to shut up everybody who has been crying out for it over the last several years. It would be sadly funny to see those calls for more long ball grow in volume.

Rhys Essien

I cant get my head around the sudden shouts of Mick for the job.He is a sound fella but people couldnt wait to see the back of him a few short years ago.He had his stint so I think its best to find someone else.

Rhys Essien

briany wrote: »

We could do worse than Mick. Kerr, for one.

I'd like to see a manager come in who will try to make the team progressive and play a passing game, not necessarily because I think it'll work but just to shut up everybody who has been crying out for it over the last several years. It would be sadly funny to see those calls for more long ball grow in volume.

Believe it or not,we won more games with Kerr.

Augmerson

Brian Kerr or Mick McCarthy would do nicely.

briany

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Believe it or not,we won more games with Kerr.

It's just a pity that most of those wins didn't come in game that matter.

Rhys Essien

briany wrote: »

It's just a pity that most of those wins didn't come in game that matter.

I suppose thats another way of looking at it.

Lennonist

Mick McCarthy is an admirable figure. He won a lot of respect particularly during his time at Wolves, when he picked up his career after things went badly wrong for him and he got hounded out of the job at the tail end of his time as Ireland manager after the World Cup in Japan and post the Saipan debacle. However I think it would be a mistake to bring him back and for me would be an uninspiring choice.

I would prefer Martin O'Neill, but if it's the case that O'Neill doesn't want the job, the FAI should cast the net a bit wider. Particularly if they have a lucrative salary to offer seeing as Denis O'Brien is bankrolling whatever move they make for the next manager.

Lamper.sffc

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I cant get my head around the sudden shouts of Mick for the job.He is a sound fella but people couldnt wait to see the back of him a few short years ago.He had his stint so I think its best to find someone else.

Some but not all where glad to see the back of him. It was a very difficult scenario after what happened at the world cup. Our next campaign didnt start well and it would have been very hard for Mick to continue under the mounting pressure.
He did a great Job overall with the squad he inherited from Jack and eventually got us back to a stage where we could compete with the best teams. Not always win but compete to the best of our ability. He did all this while still being a very young and inexperienced manager.

He has way more experience now than he had when he took over before and an even better understanding of what it takes to encourage a limited team to be better than what they and we think they can be.

There is no way he would stand for this defeatist attitude that has been put about by some.
He would still take a realist attitude to the job but wouldnt talk the team and players down, because he would understand that that is not the right attitude when you want to compete to the best and sometimes beyond your abilities.

When it comes to to picking the next manager its hard to say who would be the ideal one overall, but since we dont know who is really in the running, discounting anyone is pointless.

Backstreet Moyes

From looking at the betting Gerard Houlier might be a decent choice. Would also like Alan Curbishley.

rebelomar

If Mick was reappointed it would be very underwhelming for me. For all his admirable qualities as a manager and a man I just don't fancy it. I don't think it would reinvigorate the public either. Also a concern is the fact that it never tends to work out as well the second time around.

Belsia would be a guy id target. Rumour was he instructed his agent to suss out the Sunderland job so it seems he would be open to relocating to this part of the world.

I just think Irish football needs a change of direction and for any revolution to be successful it needs to happen from the top down. One thing is for certain is that the public interest in this team is at an all time low and the FAI really really need to get this appointment spot on.

Backstreet Moyes

rebelomar wrote: »

If Mick was reappointed it would be very underwhelming for me. For all his admirable qualities as a manager and a man I just don't fancy it. I don't think it would reinvigorate the public either. Also a concern is the fact that it never tends to work out as well the second time around.

Belsia would be a guy id target. Rumour was he instructed his agent to suss out the Sunderland job so it seems he would be open to relocating to this part of the world.

I just think Irish football needs a change of direction and for any revolution to be successful it needs to happen from the top down. One thing is for certain is that the public interest in this team is at an all time low and the FAI really really need to get this appointment spot on.

My ideal situation would be somebody with roots from the LOI i like King's idea of calling up LOI players for training. Obviously King is not good enough and it is probably too soon for Fenlon.

keeponhurling

Nuts102 wrote: »

From looking at the betting Gerard Houlier might be a decent choice. .

Don't really see how he would be a decent choice.

Wacker The Attacker

If I were Mick McCarthy i'd be telling the FAI where to stick it.

The way he was treated by the Roy Keane brigade (fans and media alike) after going through an entire world cup campaign undefeated was a travesty.

Wacker The Attacker

rebelomar wrote: »

If Mick was reappointed it would be very underwhelming for me. For all his admirable qualities as a manager and a man I just don't fancy it. I don't think it would reinvigorate the public either. Also a concern is the fact that it never tends to work out as well the second time around.

Belsia would be a guy id target. Rumour was he instructed his agent to suss out the Sunderland job so it seems he would be open to relocating to this part of the world.

I just think Irish football needs a change of direction and for any revolution to be successful it needs to happen from the top down. One thing is for certain is that the public interest in this team is at an all time low and the FAI really really need to get this appointment spot on.

It also needs a good squad of players. Something we don't have at the moment

briany

rebelomar wrote: »

I just think Irish football needs a change of direction and for any revolution to be successful it needs to happen from the top down. One thing is for certain is that the public interest in this team is at an all time low and the FAI really really need to get this appointment spot on.

The decades that preceded Jack tell us that low public interest won't break the team or the FAI but certainly the bubble will shrink. The team is lingering on a precipice that it hasn't lingered on in quite some years and that's scary to us fans who've maybe only ever known the relatively good times where the team would set out expecting to be competitive for qualification.

Any revolution that's going to take place in Irish football will have to come as much from the bottom as the top, I think. It's all very well to try and get the senior team believing and playing a brand of attractive, effective football but the kids who are watching that and who would seek to emulate it should be encouraged to do so. The players at the top can only rail against the system that they themselves were a product of so much but maybe both ends of the pyramid, pulling together can pull us out of the cycle.

Then again, if you watched that slightly cringey Lineker docu, sensitively titled 'Can England win the next World Cup?', the failings of the 'British style' are readily acknowledged, but things are still slow to be done about it.

Adrift

eventually got us back to a stage where we could compete with the best teams. Not always win but compete to the best of our ability. He did all this while still being a very young and inexperienced manager

Mick did very well with us. He had three full campaigns and got us to play-offs in two. Narrowly missing out on qualification to Turkey and Belgium. People forget in Jack's era there were no play-offs so Mick did just as well. He also qualified us for the 2002 world cup and emerged unbeaten from a group with Holland and Portugal, surely that's been our finest achievement to date?

I do agree his return would be a little underwhelming but at least he has a proven track record of getting the best out of teams that have little or no resources. I'm sure he could get the best out of the lads we have now and aside from kerr, he's one of the few managers that had us playing passing football.

Curbishly? Houlier? Are we that small minded, those guys would be a joke in this position. The job is no longer as attractive as it once was and we have limited interest this time. I think Big Mick still has the passion and personality to lift the team.

LuckyLloyd

Public interest ebbs and flows depending on whether we win games or not. That's it.

The suggestion that we need an exciting appointment to energise the public is laughable. Hire Hiddink, take 2 points from the first12 in next qualifying group - and interest will be where it is now. Hire Kerr, win the first 4 games and Landsdowne will be sold out. Same as it ever was.

Pro. F

Adrift wrote: »

Mick did very well with us. He had three full campaigns and got us to play-offs in two. Narrowly missing out on qualification to Turkey and Belgium. People forget in Jack's era there were no play-offs so Mick did just as well. He also qualified us for the 2002 world cup and emerged unbeaten from a group with Holland and Portugal, surely that's been our finest achievement to date?

I do agree his return would be a little underwhelming but at least he has a proven track record of getting the best out of teams that have little or no resources. I'm sure he could get the best out of the lads we have now and aside from kerr, he's one of the few managers that had us playing passing football.

Curbishly? Houlier? Are we that small minded, those guys would be a joke in this position. The job is no longer as attractive as it once was and we have limited interest this time. I think Big Mick still has the passion and personality to lift the team.

Since O'Brien started boosting the pay packet I'd say the Irish job is a lot more attractive than it has been for a long time.

Lennonist

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

It also needs a good squad of players. Something we don't have at the moment

We have a squad that is good enough to get to Euro 2016, given the extra places available and if we get a half decent group draw. Bottom line. Anyone that takes over will be expected to get the team to the Euro's in 2016.

Mick McCarthy - who I wouldn't pick for the job personally - would not talk down the players and put up with the negative tripe that has seeped into the mindset of some of those watching and talking about the Irish team. I think there are better choices than McCarthy though, simply because he has been here before.

Aenaes

Mick McCarthy ruled himself out of the job, why is he still being talked about?

People finally shut up about Hughton, time to do the same about McCarthy unless he says something different.

simongurnick

Corholio wrote: »

Another one? Its quite a coincidence that about 11 players were all 'pricks' for not getting along with Trap. Amazing coincidence.

So what about the recent tweets from Long and McLean?
Was that down to Trap too? Maybe they mistook Noel King for him??

Seriously lads...it's the players. Open your eyes.

fryup

so for ireland not to get a second seedings for euros

romania have to win both play-off matches???

gnfnrhead

fryup wrote: »

so for ireland not to get a second seedings for euros

romania have to win both play-off matches???

Yes.

Win/draw or anything worse means we get second seeds.

Lamper.sffc

Aenaes wrote: »

Mick McCarthy ruled himself out of the job, why is he still being talked about?

People finally shut up about Hughton, time to do the same about McCarthy unless he says something different.

No he didnt.

Aenaes

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

No he didnt.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/mick-mccarthy-all-but-rules-himself-out-of-republic-job-1.1527310

"I'm in a job and it's not the right time. I'm loving what I'm doing here."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ipswich-chief-insists-mick-mccarthy-not-interested-in-return-to-ireland-post-29670443.html

"The last time I spoke to him about this was a couple of weeks ago when it first came up and he said: 'Look, I'm not going anywhere.' And we don't want him to go."

briany

Have any of the tabloids put Phillipe Troussier forward as a potential candidate yet, I wonder? They were fond of that in the past.

Lamper.sffc

Aenaes wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/mick-mccarthy-all-but-rules-himself-out-of-republic-job-1.1527310

"I'm in a job and it's not the right time. I'm loving what I'm doing here."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ipswich-chief-insists-mick-mccarthy-not-interested-in-return-to-ireland-post-29670443.html

"The last time I spoke to him about this was a couple of weeks ago when it first came up and he said: 'Look, I'm not going anywhere.' And we don't want him to go."

Only one part of the article quoted. When read as a whole,thats the usual interview a manager gives when not wanting to offend his employers or fans of the club they are at. While not openly saying he wants it, he doesnt come out and say he would definitely not take it. He is leaving his options open if he is approached. So its not exactly ruling himself out all together. Not 100% anyway. So discussion about him joining Ireland is not off the table

Charlie19

The future doesn't look great for us at the moment and after the next campaign I'm afraid its probably going to look a lot worse.

rebelomar

briany wrote: »

The decades that preceded Jack tell us that low public interest won't break the team or the FAI but certainly the bubble will shrink. The team is lingering on a precipice that it hasn't lingered on in quite some years and that's scary to us fans who've maybe only ever known the relatively good times where the team would set out expecting to be competitive for qualification.

Any revolution that's going to take place in Irish football will have to come as much from the bottom as the top, I think. It's all very well to try and get the senior team believing and playing a brand of attractive, effective football but the kids who are watching that and who would seek to emulate it should be encouraged to do so. The players at the top can only rail against the system that they themselves were a product of so much but maybe both ends of the pyramid, pulling together can pull us out of the cycle.

Then again, if you watched that slightly cringey Lineker docu, sensitively titled 'Can England win the next World Cup?', the failings of the 'British style' are readily acknowledged, but things are still slow to be done about it.

Good point, I feel we both have the same ideas you probably expressed it a bit better

I definitely feel though if you are encouraging progressive technical play at schoolboys/grassroots level it would help streamline the ideal if the senior side are at least trying to play in the right manner.

Kids don't want to listen to guff like we are little aul Ireland and we are doing our best. This filters down. In any organisation the message comes from the top down and if the message is we are little old Ireland doing our best then any progress will be hampered.

Attitudes dictate actions imo.

rebelomar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Public interest ebbs and flows depending on whether we win games or not. That's it.

The suggestion that we need an exciting appointment to energise the public is laughable. Hire Hiddink, take 2 points from the first12 in next qualifying group - and interest will be where it is now. Hire Kerr, win the first 4 games and Landsdowne will be sold out. Same as it ever was.

Don't agree... we need an initial boost. We need the public/crowd behind the team and close to full houses for the start of the new campaign.

You are correct in your view that results dictate long term...of course they they do.

However hire Hiddink and chances are you win a lot more points than two in your first 12.

Hiddink is a lot better also than the British based coaches being touted to be fair. I'm just using Hiddink as an example of course.

rebelomar

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

It also needs a good squad of players. Something we don't have at the moment

To be fair contrast the performances from Kazakhstan away and at home. I know which performance id rather see. We are certainly capable of playing decent football against these sides.

We have a squad of reasonable ability for International football imo, for champions league level or top class International sides (seeds 1 and mostly 2) we are probably lacking.

However in a European qualifying group(World cup or Euros) with a half decent draw we have players of higher caliber than most 6th 5th and 4th seed teams. I would class us currently as a 3rd seed team. Against first and second seeds we will undoubtedly be under the cosh however playing hoof ball against the aforementioned teams/seeds is ridiculous.

RickyBobby1

I hate this **** of we don't have good enough players.Are you telling me that Sweden and Austria players are that much better outside there one outstanding player Alba and Ibra.
We didn't have our best eleven on the pitch and our tactics were predictable as well as awful that's why we didn't make the play offs.

ThunbergsAreGo

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

I hate this **** of we don't have good enough players.Are you telling me that Sweden and Austria players are that much better outside there one outstanding player Alba and Ibra.
We didn't have our best eleven on the pitch and our tactics were predictable as well as awful that's why we didn't make the play offs.

In a game with 11 players, one outstanding one makes a hell of a difference, without Alaba we draw with/beat Austria

briany

rebelomar wrote: »

Kids don't want to listen to guff like we are little aul Ireland and we are doing our best. This filters down. In any organisation the message comes from the top down and if the message is we are little old Ireland doing our best then any progress will be hampered.

Attitudes dictate actions imo.

I think we've always had the little Ireland mentality, just that it switches between a David v. Goliath type thing if the team's being competitive on the larger stages and the victim mentality if the team's getting spanked. It works both ways. Ireland is a smaller country than most, but if we can maintain the former attitude to this smallness, even in times of adversity, we'd be doing well. We saw just how fragile the team's confidence was at 2012. One game lost and the bubble was burst. True, on their best day they may still have lost all three games but the lack of fight shown was galling. No more of that, please.

Wacker The Attacker

[QUOTE=Lennonist;87078752]We have a squad that is good enough to get to Euro 2016, given the extra places available and if we get a half decent group draw. Bottom line. Anyone that takes over will be expected to get the team to the Euro's in 2016.

Mick McCarthy - who I wouldn't pick for the job personally - would not talk down the players and put up with the negative tripe that has seeped into the mindset of some of those watching and talking about the Irish team. I think there are better choices than McCarthy though, simply because he has been here before.[/QUOTE]


Not necessarily because we're good. Only because almost half of the continent will qualify. Besides, most teams could qualify with a decent draw

Wacker The Attacker

rebelomar wrote: »

To be fair contrast the performances from Kazakhstan away and at home. I know which performance id rather see. We are certainly capable of playing decent football against these sides.

We have a squad of reasonable ability for International football imo, for champions league level or top class International sides (seeds 1 and mostly 2) we are probably lacking.

However in a European qualifying group(World cup or Euros) with a half decent draw we have players of higher caliber than most 6th 5th and 4th seed teams. I would class us currently as a 3rd seed team. Against first and second seeds we will undoubtedly be under the cosh however playing hoof ball against the aforementioned teams/seeds is ridiculous.

Yeah. Because Kazakhstan are shyte.

This is self evident given that we have a higher seeding. However, we saw from this qualifying campaign that the likes of Austria can take points from us too.

briany

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Yeah. Because Kazakhstan are shyte.

They took points off Austria and Sweden only narrowly beat them in Stockholm. They almost beat Ireland as well, of course. I think it's more that it was end of season and they had nothing to play for that they weren't as bothered. At least Ireland were playing for that seeding.

Kidchameleon

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Not necessarily because we're good. Only because almost half of the continent will qualify. Besides, most teams could qualify with a decent draw

I don't really look at it that way. Take a look at the expansion to 16 teams from 1996 onwards and you will see some big names would have failed to qualify if it were not for the expansion:

Notable teams that came second in qualifying and therefore probably would not have qualified for the finals:

1996: France, Italy, Netherlands
2000: England, Portugal
2004: Russia, Spain, Netherlands, Croatia
2008: Portugal, France, Germany, Russia, Sweden, Netherlands
2012: Portugal, Czech Rep, Croatia

LuckyLloyd

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

I hate this **** of we don't have good enough players.Are you telling me that Sweden and Austria players are that much better outside there one outstanding player Alba and Ibra.
We didn't have our best eleven on the pitch and our tactics were predictable as well as awful that's why we didn't make the play offs.

You want it to be one way, but it's the other way. You'll understand in March 2015. Worst Irish Squad since the fifties.