Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours

naughto

noodler wrote: »

We finished fourth in a group...AFTER finishing second twice.


Austria and Sweden ar both better than us by the way.

Its not really up for debate - Delaney will rightly look at the appointment of Trap as a success.

Delaney is the problem with Irish soccer he would want to be f1ucked out

noodler

naughto wrote: »

Delaney is the problem with Irish soccer he would want to be f1ucked out

I was addressing a very specific issue regarding the appointment of Trap.

naughto

Do u honestly think trap was good for Irish football ??

noodler

naughto wrote: »

Do u honestly think trap was good for Irish football ??

I honestly think Trap made the FAI crap loads of money and got Ireland to two play-offs.

As such, I honestly think Delaney can list his appointment as a success.

Do you view the period 2002-2008 period as some sort of golden era for Irish football?

Trap could have left after the Euros but his reign is not defined the guts of the third campaign alone.

Laois_Man

Good article about Robbie Keane's goals record for Ireland....reminded me of many debates I've seen on here

Striker's record under the spotlight

After Robbie Keane was dropped from the starting eleven for a competitive international for the first time in 13 years in Glasgow last November, the debate is on as to whether he should be restored to the team for Sunday’s European Championship qualifier against Poland.

In the entire history of international football, only 12 players have scored more goals than Keane. He is the fifth highest scoring European in international history, and the highest scoring international still playing for his country, anywhere in the world.

Keane has scored more than three times as many goals for the Republic of Ireland as anyone else who has ever pulled on the green jersey. Yet throughout his career, many people in his own country have questioned his record, with familiar refrains that he doesn’t score in big matches, that many of his goals have come against international minnows, and that quite a few have been penalties.

The man himself seems to take such comments in his stride, but whatever about whether the questions are fair and valid, do the facts even stack up?

Keane’s total of international goals currently stands at 65. Of those, 23 have been scored in friendlies (including three in the Carling Nations Cup, which wasn’t really an official tournament), so that leaves 42 in competitive matches.

The argument about scoring goals against minnows is a questionable one, because these teams still have to be beaten after all, and Ireland have on occasion found it hard enough to do so.

If the argument is to be accepted though, Keane has scored five against Faroe Islands, three each against Malta, San Marino and Gibraltar, two against Kazakhstan and one against Andorra. All of which adds up to 17, leaving a total of 25.

Of those, four were penalties. The spot-kick argument is probably even more questionable, as some of these were key moments, most notably the last minute penalty to take the World Cup match against Spain into extra time in 2002.

Overall though, even if you take out goals scored in friendlies, or against the minnows, or from penalties, that still leaves 21. A total which includes goals in FOUR different qualification play offs, a stoppage time equaliser against Germanyat the World Cup, and goals in important qualifiers against Italy, Netherlands and Yugoslavia.

In other words, even with all those limits applied, Keane has still got as many as goals as the man in second place, Niall Quinn, scored in total. When you apply the same criteria to Quinn, the total is nine (or eight if the Turkey team of 1990 are regarded as minnows).

The final argument often made against all this, is that it’s largely in the past, but Keane was Ireland’s top scorer in the last World Cup qualifiers, and in the successful bid to qualify for the last European finals.

For what it’s worth, I’d still back him as the man most likely to come up with a goal in a tight qualifier, and even if that has a lot to do with a lack of suitable alternatives, it’s no less relevant for that.

Perhaps it will only be when Keane is gone from the national team, which is likely to be at the end of this campaign, that people finally appreciate the contribution he has made since his debut 17 years ago.

https://www.todayfm.com/THE-ROBBIE-KEANE-MYTH

naughto

noodler wrote: »

I honestly think Trap made the FAI crap loads of money and got Ireland to two play-offs.

As such, I honestly think Delaney can list his appointment as a success.

Do you view the period 2002-2008 period as some sort of golden era for Irish football?

Trap could have left after the Euros but his reign is not defined the guts of the third campaign alone.

Who hired trap,station ,Kerr it all comes back to one man.
His can you defend trap with the likes of Green, Shannon whelan getting games ahead of what we have now.

bren2001

naughto wrote: »

Who hired trap,station ,Kerr it all comes back to one man.
His can you defend trap with the likes of Green, Shannon whelan getting games ahead of what we have now.

Whelan is in the squad and I fully expect him to start. He flew over from Stoke, with no prior training, after not being named in the Scotland squad, after breaking his leg to prove his fitness. I definitely want a player like that in my squad.

As for Green and Sammon. They are still around the fringes of the squad. They both got very little game time (Green got a bit). Who else did we have? McCarthy was out starting CM with Whelan. Gibson pulled out. It's not as if we are flush with CM's.

Ferris_Bueller

John Delaney has his flaws but jesus the man gets some amount of stick, he gets blamed for everything wrong with Irish football which is hardly fair. I thought Trap was an excellent appointment overall, after coming out of the nightmare with Stan we really needed someone who could stabilize us again and make us competitive, which is exactly what Trap done. We were unlucky with the France incident and then qualified for our first tournament in ten years, like it or not there are a lot of football fans in this country who's only memories of anything exciting happening with our national team are with Trap as manager.

The football was never great and the last campaign and EURO 2012 were very disappointing and I think it was the right time for him to leave, but calling him a failure is ridiculous, two successful campaigns isn't bad.

Also, Whelan is a player I hope to see starting on Sunday. In the past I have doubted him but we really missed him against Scotland, players like Hendrick, Quinn, Gibson are probably all technically better players than Whelan but he has been consistent for Ireland over the past few years and we look like a better team when he is there. If you were a Polish fan looking in, Whelan is playing regularly for Stoke who are 10th in the PL, which is far better than the level most of our squad is playing at.

tigger123

Anyone hazard a prediction for Sunday?

Hulk Hands

bren2001 wrote: »

That qualification campaign we lost 1 game, won 6 and were unbelievably difficult to break down. We were in the seeded pot and could have gotten Turkey, Bosnia or Montenegro. The form we were in, I would have backed us to beat anyone of them.

Things went south at the Euros all right but at that point, it was bonus territory. We were in a group with the 2 finalists and a really good Croatian team. I was only talking to a friend the other night, if we had Trap in charge this year we both believed we would have lost to Germany but never would have lost to Scotland. I was pro-Trap all along and tbh, I would have given him another campaign.

How does qualifying for that Euro's still keep coming up as a massive plus point for Trap? We beat the footballing might of Armenia to second place with an utterly useless Slovakia back in 4th. We then beat Estonia in the playoffs. We only got 1 point from 2 games against the one semi decent side we faced in Russia. If we hadn't have qualified for that Euro's it'd have been the biggest disaster in Irish footballing history.

Trap's reign consisted of 2 average qualifying campaigns, one disaster, and an embarrassment at a tournament finals. His legacy is stifled development of talented young players, estrangement of others, a disenchanted fanbase and a hole in FAI coffers. Good riddance

noodler

Hulk Hands wrote: »

How does qualifying for that Euro's still keep coming up as a massive plus point for Trap? We beat the footballing might of Armenia to second place with an utterly useless Slovakia back in 4th. We then beat Estonia in the playoffs. We only got 1 point from 2 games against the one semi decent side we faced in Russia. If we hadn't have qualified for that Euro's it'd have been the biggest disaster in Irish footballing history.

Trap's reign consisted of 2 average qualifying campaigns, one disaster, and an embarrassment at a tournament finals. His legacy is stifled development of talented young players, estrangement of others, a disenchanted fanbase and a hole in FAI coffers. Good riddance

God, the level of debate has collapsed in here.

Banjaxed82

tigger123 wrote: »

Anyone hazard a prediction for Sunday?

Anything resembling the performance against the US, then I can see us winning by the odd goal. A repeat of Scotland, then hard to see beyond a Poland win.

tastyt

I'd take a draw, keep us in the hunt. Would obviously love a win but just can't see it

eire4

tastyt wrote: »

I'd take a draw, keep us in the hunt. Would obviously love a win but just can't see it

Have to agree with you. We really need a win to really get ourselves right back into the picture but a draw is more likely.

tayto lover

tigger123 wrote: »

Anyone hazard a prediction for Sunday?

One all.
BUT we need to win it.

stiffler123

I'm very grateful for everything Trap has done for Ireland. Got an average group of players to the Euros, and within a whisker of qualifying for the world cup.

I think sometimes people forget how average our squad of players is. We were more solid defensively under Trap than we are now. Sure, Trap's team selections were head scratching at times but more often than not they got results. The team selections under Mon have been just as bad(Stephan Ward a regular in the team).

Do people think we are playing better football under O'Neill? I don't see it tbh.

tonycascarino

eire4 wrote: »

Have to agree with you. We really need a win to really get ourselves right back into the picture but a draw is more likely.

Draw and we won't qualify IMO. Has to be a win if we want to control our own destiny. We haven't beaten a decent nation in ages & now is the time to do it.

Ranchu

stiffler123 wrote: »

I'm very grateful for everything Trap has done for Ireland. Got an average group of players to the Euros, and within a whisker of qualifying for the world cup.

I think sometimes people forget how average our squad of players is. We were more solid defensively under Trap than we are now. Sure, Trap's team selections were head scratching at times but more often than not they got results. The team selections under Mon have been just as bad(Stephan Ward a regular in the team).

Do people think we are playing better football under O'Neill? I don't see it tbh.

Apart from when it actually mattered and we conceded 9 goals in 3 games.

weldoninhio

Feck the negativity. I think we will win 2-0. Poland are no great shakes and are missing some of their better players.

C'mon Ireland!!!!

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Its not really up for debate...

Another clincher to add to the "anyone who thought Trap was rubbish is childish"?

How about you thought Trap was great, I thought he was just desperate, and we can agree to disagree without getting silly?

noodler

Deleted User wrote: »

Another clincher to add to the "anyone who thought Trap was rubbish is childish"?

How about you thought Trap was great, I thought he was just desperate, and we can agree to disagree without getting silly?

Trap was successful.

If you think getting us to the play-offs two out of three times was deperate, I can only imagine how you judged the Kerr and Staunton regimes. And, quite possibly, how you are going to judge the O'Neill regime.

weldoninhio

noodler wrote: »

Trap was successful.

If you think getting us to the play-offs two out of three times was deperate, I can only imagine how you judged the Kerr and Staunton regimes. And, quite possibly, how you are going to judge the O'Neill regime.

Trap was a disaster. Stubborn, uninterested, and taking a massive wsge to sit in his arse in Milan.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

It will be the best atmosphere at a home football game in the Aviva to date.

We will win 3-1.

And I will smile.

woodyg

2-1 Ireland
set piece goals

callaway92

weldoninhio wrote: »

Feck the negativity. I think we will win 2-0. Poland are no great shakes and are missing some of their better players.

C'mon Ireland!!!!

Hopefully, but they bet Germany, destroyed Georgia (we know how that match went for us. . .) and drew with a decent Scotland side. Saying they are in no great shakes is a bit unfair.

Poland technically should be winning this I think, but hopefully the lads will be desperate for a win and might get it.

Heading up to it so can't wait now!

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Trap was successful.

Again, if you judge the worst competitive run in our history, the biggest home defeat, and finishing 4th in our group as successful, good for you. We'll agree to disagree.

TheCitizen

callaway92 wrote: »

Hopefully, but they bet Germany, destroyed Georgia (we know how that match went for us. . .) and drew with a decent Scotland side. Saying they are in no great shakes is a bit unfair.

Poland technically should be winning this I think, but hopefully the lads will be desperate for a win and might get it.

I don't accept your premise that Poland are technically that far ahead of Ireland. I think Ireland's performances to date in this Group is more to do with attitude and approach.

Ireland are at home, they are favourites to win the game, there is a reason for that. If their approach and attitude is right they will win.

noodler

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, if you judge the worst competitive run in our history, the biggest home defeat, and finishing 4th in our group as successful, good for you. We'll agree to disagree.

Why are you only selecting a one year period of his reign that includes games against Spain, Italy and Germany?

Igoring draws with Italy, France, Russia, Montenagro etc as well as the relative success of two campaigns previous to WC 2014's qualffying campaign.

To say you are lacking a balanced consideration of his reign in its entirety is an understatement. I wonder do you consider Mick McCarthy's reign "desperate" because he lost his last three competitive games (Spain, Russia and Switzerland).

noodler

noodler wrote: »

To say you are lacking a balanced consideration of his reign in its entirety is an understatement...

Talking about me yet again?

I was "childish", the matter wasn't up for debate, now I don't have a balanced consideration etc.

Why can't we just agree to disagree? I thought his regime of sitting on his hole in Italy and refusing to go to games or learn the language, leading to him falling out with good players and favouring utter donkeys was awful. I thought the records like worst losing runs, biggest home defeat and finishing in our worst place ever in a group stank, you see them as some blip from one bad year and that he was good because we drew with...Montenegro. We just differ in our views.

Chrissybhoy

You would have to worry about our two CB their clubs are in shocking form with both at the heart and both are skippers for respective clubs and up against one of Europes finest in Lewandowski

yabadabado

Trap's last campaign was a disaster but to write off his tenure completely is doing him a disservice.He took over from the worst manager we have ever had and steadied the ship.Got us to a playoff in the first campaign and got us to the finals in his second.
He had many faults but I think we may look back at his reign in a more favorable light in ten or twelve years time,we don't get to many finals and he managed to get us to one,I'm not sure the current manager will.

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

He had many faults but I think we may look back at his reign in a more favorable light in ten or twelve years time,we don't get to many finals and he managed to get us to one,I'm not sure the current manager will.

As long as the current manager goes to games, doesn't fall out with players because of language problems, doesn't have very obvious favourites, doesn't insist on playing donkeys and overlooking better players, doesn't manage from the other side of the continent and shows some very very basic respect for his role like not blaming his failures on the alleged lack of a domestic league, then he will be an improvement. Whether that will improve matters on the pitch will depend very much on the players available, but at least it will be maximising the resources. Like managers of other countries like Greece and Bosnia do without patting themselves on the back non stop about just being there.

stiffler123

Deleted User wrote: »

Talking about me yet again?

I was "childish", the matter wasn't up for debate, now I don't have a balanced consideration etc.

Why can't we just agree to disagree? I thought his regime of sitting on his hole in Italy and refusing to go to games or learn the language, leading to him falling out with good players and favouring utter donkeys was awful. I thought the records like worst losing runs, biggest home defeat and finishing in our worst place ever in a group stank, you see them as some blip from one bad year and that he was good because we drew with...Montenegro. We just differ in our views.

What was wrong with his English? I thought he was fine for a guy in his 70s. You were really that angry that we lost to Germany, Italy, Spain and Croatia? Give over. We finished below Germany, Sweden and Austria because they have world class players who made the difference for them. We were close to getting results against Sweden and Austria only for Ibra and Alaba.

Do you think things are a lot better now under O'Neill? Are we playing better football? Are all the "donkeys" as you called them from Traps era gone? If you are truly honest I think the answer to those questions will be no.

stiffler123

stiffler123 wrote: »

What was wrong with his English? I thought he was fine for a guy in his 70s. You were really that angry that we lost to Germany, Italy, Spain and Croatia? Give over. We finished below Germany, Sweden and Austria because they have world class players who made the difference for them. We were close to getting results against Sweden and Austria only for Ibra and Alaba.

Do you think things are a lot better now under O'Neill? Are we playing better football? Are all the "donkeys" as you called them from Traps era gone? If you are truly honest I think the answer to those questions will be no.

Have you forgotten incidents like the falling out with Mark Wilson because of his confusion, the admission from players that they didn't know or understand the tactics and so on?

I'm no big fan of O'Neill. But again if he actually turns up instead of sitting on his hole in a villa in Italy, or doesn't attack players over his misunderstandings and language issues, he's already treating the job with more respect than Trap.

yabadabado

Yet for all these faults Trap had us in our best position in 10 years.

eire4

yabadabado wrote: »

Yet for all these faults Trap had us in our best position in 10 years.

True he did great things for us the first half or so of his tenure in charge of Ireland. But certainly over the last couple of years he over stayed when it was clear he had taken us as far as he could and his refusal to see that and accept that saw us fall back considerably by the time he did leave.

yabadabado

eire4 wrote: »

True he did great things for us the first half or so of his tenure in charge of Ireland. But certainly over the last couple of years he over stayed when it was clear he had taken us as far as he could and his refusal to see that and accept that saw us fall back considerably by the time he did leave.

He should have left after Euro 2012 .

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

Yet for all these faults Trap had us in our best position in 10 years.

And, by the time he finished up, our worst position in history, trailing in a miserable 4th in groups and 67th in world rankings.

yohan the great

Deleted User wrote: »

And, by the time he finished up, our worst position in history, trailing in a miserable 4th in groups and 67th in world rankings.

Who the **** cares about world rankings? He had three campaigns and should have brought us to two major tournaments in a row for only the second time ever but for a scandalous refereeing decision. It ended badly but we did have a tough group

weldoninhio

yohan the great wrote: »

Who the **** cares about world rankings? He had three campaigns and should have brought us to two major tournaments in a row for only the second time ever but for a scandalous refereeing decision. It ended badly but we did have a tough group

What scandalous refereeing decision stopped us from going to a tournament??

Aenaes

Deleted User wrote: »

doesn't have very obvious favourites

Most managers do. Don't worry though, Heskey is ineligible.

Deleted User wrote: »

doesn't insist on playing donkeys

Stephen Ward says hi.

Deleted User wrote: »

and overlooking better players

Damien Delaney called, he wants a look in

Deleted User wrote: »

alleged lack of a domestic league

How many LoI players did the other managers call up? I remember Kerr calling up one or two and they weren't a success.

yohan the great

yohan the great wrote: »

Who the **** cares about world rankings? He had three campaigns and should have brought us to two major tournaments in a row for only the second time ever but for a scandalous refereeing decision. It ended badly but we did have a tough group

I didn't suggest people cared about world rankings.

I merely responded to the person who referred to us being in the best position in 10 years by pointing out that, as a matter of fact, he left us in the worst position ever. And in that regard, rankings are a pretty useful barometer. 4th in our group, dwindling attendances and ticket sales, issues with players, the were a host of other issues that also jar with the "best position" assertion.

Aenaes

Aenaes wrote: »

How many LoI players did the other managers call up? I remember Kerr calling up one or two and they weren't a success.

Hilariously, didn't he say that around the Sweden game, when the Swedish sub goalie had played here the previous year.

He was just so clueless. I'm not saying that LoI players should be called up, but to claim there was no league here at all as one of his excuses was just so lame.

The_Kew_Tour

The Ireland U17s have qualified for the Euros in May.

They lost 1-0 to Poland but still came 2nd in their group from the Elite Phase.

Well done to them

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The Ireland U17s have qualified for the Euros in May.

They lost 1-0 to Poland but still came 2nd in their group from the Elite Phase.

Well done to them

The matches in May will surely be on Eurosport?

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And, by the time he finished up, our worst position in history, trailing in a miserable 4th in groups and 67th in world rankings.

You know we finished 4th in the 2006 qualifying campaign?

Kirby

yohan the great wrote: »

Who the **** cares about world rankings?

Anybody with any sense. If you are ranked higher, you are seeded higher, you get an easier group, you qualify.

And because you qualify by beating teams weaker than you, you maintain your ranking....ensuring you get an easy group next time and so on. It's a cycle. There are some pretty average teams high on the ranking list because they know it matters.

The_Kew_Tour

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The matches in May will surely be on Eurosport?

I reckon they will. They usually do the underage Euros

Kingp35

yohan the great wrote: »

Who the **** cares about world rankings

Anyone with any knowledge of International Football cares about world rankings because they are VERY important. Your seeding for the World Cup qualifying groups is based entirely on your world ranking. How the FAI choose friendly opponents also has an adverse effect on our ranking as they tend to try and choose big name countries to sell tickets but we invariably end up struggling against them, receive no ranking points and slip further down the list.

irrespective of how ranking points are given out, your World Ranking is very important for World Cup qualifying.

noodler

Kirby wrote: »

Anybody with any sense. If you are ranked higher, you are seeded higher, you get an easier group, you qualify.

And because you qualify by beating teams weaker than you, you maintain your ranking....ensuring you get an easy group next time and so on. It's a cycle. There are some pretty average teams high on the ranking list because they know it matters.

Is it not based on the previous three campaign's results?