Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours

rebelomar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care tbh. If he's in doubt he can **** off. McCarthy has been desperately underwhelming to date. Wanting to play and being proud to do so is a pre requisite as we'll always be weaker than our opposition.

Why can he not be in doubt?

The only reason people like Kilbane, Breen etc had no problem instantly declaring is because they had no hope of playing for England at senior level...zero chance and they knew this.

If you can't see this then I suggest you take off the green tinted glasses.

This kid and McCarthy have/had options...they also probably felt as much English /Scottish as Irish so it's a big decision for them.

You think Clinton Morrison ever felt Irish growing up...I'd doubt it but from a professional point of view it was a great opportunity for him. For what it's worth all these lads have been great servants to us and I'm delighted they declared but it's different for guys like Grealish etc who have options.

It's not just an emotional decision unfortunately it's also a professional one whether we like it or not.

RGDATA!

rebelomar wrote: »

The only reason people like Kilbane, Breen etc had no problem instantly declaring is because they had no hope of playing for England at senior level...zero chance and they knew this.

If you can't see this then I suggest you take off the green tinted glasses.

Pretty sure both Breen and Kilbane would take issue with you about that. Kilbane declined an England underage call-up.
Agree that neither would ever have made an England senior squad, but even if they knew this, that doesn't mean that that's a reason to choose Ireland. Think both these guys are good examples of people who declared for Ireland for the same reason most of us would - because they were brought up identifying as Irish.

eire4

RGDATA! wrote: »

Pretty sure both Breen and Kilbane would take issue with you about that. Kilbane declined an England underage call-up.
Agree that neither would ever have made an England senior squad, but even if they knew this, that doesn't mean that that's a reason to choose Ireland. Think both these guys are good examples of people who declared for Ireland for the same reason most of us would - because they were brought up identifying as Irish.

Agree with you there on Kilbane and Breen. While for sure there are guys who chose to play for Ireland only because they had no chance of breaking into an England team Kilbane and Breen do not come into that equation in the sense they always wanted to play for Ireland and always saw themselves as Irish.

eire4

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Have to say it is embarrassing having your National team depend on a kid who has never grown up here and waiting to make his decision.

Personally, he should play for England, but if he does choose us then lucky us.

But we should be producing our own talent, not depending on England.

To be fair given how many people have emigrated from Ireland we are always likely to have a number of lads in the Irish team who were born in England or indeed other countries. I have no problem with that at all.

Pighead

How this will probably pan out. Grealish declares for England. Plays a couple of friendlies. Is usurped by the next bright young thing. Never plays international football again.

eire4

Pighead wrote: »

How this will probably pan out. Grealish declares for England. Plays a couple of friendlies. Is usurped by the next bright young thing. Never plays international football again.

I think you have to play a competitive international before your international future is confirmed. A player can play a full international friendly and still switch to another country later.

LowOdour

Pighead wrote: »

How this will probably pan out. Grealish declares for England. Plays a couple of friendlies. Is usurped by the next bright young thing. Never plays international football again.

If thats the case then I wouldn't want him playing for us either. The reason we all want this kid is he looks the real deal...we have had enough "not good enough to play for *insert country here* " players already

Pighead

eire4 wrote: »

I think you have to play a competitive international before your international future is confirmed. A player can play a full international friendly and still switch to another country later.

That's a cracking point. Ok, substitute playing the friendly match to playing a couple of minutes at the end of a competitive fixture. Actually do you even have to play a couple of minutes or would an appearance as a sub in a competitive fixture suffice?

eire4

Pighead wrote: »

That's a cracking point. Ok, substitute playing the friendly match to playing a couple of minutes at the end of a competitive fixture. Actually do you even have to play a couple of minutes or would an appearance as a sub in a competitive fixture suffice?

As far as I know any kind of appearance in a competitive game would do it even if the player was only on the field for a second or 2.

tonycascarino

3 of Jack's 4 grandparents are Irish born and bred. He even played Gaelic Football in Croke Park & has represented us all the way up to U21 level. If he feels English after that then let him off.

LuckyLloyd

rebelomar wrote: »

Why can he not be in doubt?

The only reason people like Kilbane, Breen etc had no problem instantly declaring is because they had no hope of playing for England at senior level...zero chance and they knew this.

If you can't see this then I suggest you take off the green tinted glasses.

This kid and McCarthy have/had options...they also probably felt as much English /Scottish as Irish so it's a big decision for them.

You think Clinton Morrison ever felt Irish growing up...I'd doubt it but from a professional point of view it was a great opportunity for him. For what it's worth all these lads have been great servants to us and I'm delighted they declared but it's different for guys like Grealish etc who have options.

It's not just an emotional decision unfortunately it's also a professional one whether we like it or not.

When James McClean was rinsing that Polish player a few weeks ago I don't think it had a whole lot to do with cool calm professionalism. That's what we need more of, not a kid viewing International football as a choice or a chore.

Rhys Essien

tonycascarino wrote: »

3 of Jack's 4 grandparents are Irish born and bred. He even played Gaelic Football in Croke Park & has represented us all the way up to U21 level. If he feels English after that then let him off.

But he is English,fully English.

That lad who plays in the MLS was born and bred in Cork yet he now says he doesnt feel Irish.His Dad even played for Cork in the GAA.

Kerrydude1981

Rhys Essien wrote: »

But he is English,fully English.

That lad who plays in the MLS was born and bred in Cork yet he now says he doesnt feel Irish.His Dad even played for Cork in the GAA.

And his uncle is the great Maurice Fitzgerald,

Bring back Joe Lapira

citytillidie

All that is going on here is what Ireland have done to Northern Ireland and they don't like it when it is on the other foot.

miroslavklose

Amazing how these arguments always bring out the mindreaders who know why a player chose to represent Ireland better than the player himself does. Some remarkable talents being wasted on such trivial matters.

miroslavklose

citytillidie wrote: »

All that is going on here is what Ireland have done to Northern Ireland and they don't like it when it is on the other foot.

Not really. Grealish is a player who has genuinely split loyalties. Players like McClean and Gibson never had split loyalties.

dd972

rebelomar wrote: »

The only reason people like Kilbane, Breen etc had no problem instantly declaring is because they had no hope of playing for England at senior level...zero chance and they knew this.

If you can't see this then I suggest you take off the green tinted glasses.

Kilbane and Breen are Irish through and through, both parents from here, GAA, Catholic Church, summers spent back here with Tayto and Red Lemonade, I could go on...

If they were born in France or Norway they'd be regarded as Irish nationals born overseas, if born in 'perfidious Albion' all vestiges of Oirishness are negated and rendered null and void by the same people who revere Connolly, Larkin, Marciewicz, Childers, etc, etc. I doubt for a second that Kilbane or Breen would declare for England or feel English.

rebelomar

RGDATA! wrote: »

Pretty sure both Breen and Kilbane would take issue with you about that. Kilbane declined an England underage call-up.
Agree that neither would ever have made an England senior squad, but even if they knew this, that doesn't mean that that's a reason to choose Ireland. Think both these guys are good examples of people who declared for Ireland for the same reason most of us would - because they were brought up identifying as Irish.

I'm not saying Breen or Kilbane didn't have an Irish identify growing up...Their "Irishness" isn't in question.

The point is their allegiance was never tested as per Grealish because a full England cap was never a remote possibility possibility.

It's a similar situation to Bentalab and other Algerian/French players face but France isn't a realistic option so they jump at Algerian full cap despite playing underage for France where as Bentalab had a real decision to make

rebelomar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When James McClean was rinsing that Polish player a few weeks ago I don't think it had a whole lot to do with cool calm professionalism. That's what we need more of, not a kid viewing International football as a choice or a chore.

Yeah we need more lads born in Ireland coming through for future sustainability.

Unfortunately they are not there so we have to rely on lads like Grealish and Crowley etc to declare.

But if you want to go down to the Championship and League 1 then lads who qualify will jump at the opportunity to đeclare...

Why??

No options

The_Kew_Tour

eire4 wrote: »

To be fair given how many people have emigrated from Ireland we are always likely to have a number of lads in the Irish team who were born in England or indeed other countries. I have no problem with that at all.

Neither do I. But most have their mind made up soon enough, not dicking around.

The English lads gave as much effort if not more in the Irish jersey then everyone, but its not the problem some of us have.

The_Kew_Tour

miroslavklose wrote: »

Not really. Grealish is a player who has genuinely split loyalties. Players like McClean and Gibson never had split loyalties.

Very true, comparing it to the North is horse ****.

yabadabado

citytillidie wrote: »

All that is going on here is what Ireland have done to Northern Ireland and they don't like it when it is on the other foot.

very different scenario .

Dirty Dingus McGee

rebelomar wrote: »

I'm not saying Breen or Kilbane didn't have an Irish identify growing up...Their "Irishness" isn't in question.

The point is their allegiance was never tested as per Grealish because a full England cap was never a remote possibility possibility.

It's a similar situation to Bentalab and other Algerian/French players face but France isn't a realistic option so they jump at Algerian full cap despite playing underage for France where as Bentalab had a real decision to make

Kevin Kilbane turned down the chance to play for England at u-18 level so if he was interested in playing for England at that stage he would have thought he'd have a decent chance at senior level, so he was fully set all along on playing for Ireland.Those are the type of players we want not people who aren't 100% committed.If Grealish isn't 100% committed to playing for Ireland then we'd be better off without him.

Frankly FIFA should really do something to sort out the international eligibility issue.It's a joke players changing there minds at a late stage.What should happen is that when a player sign's his first professional contract he should have to complete a document confirming which country he is going to play for and that country cannot be changed afterwards.

weldoninhio

If someone is eligible for Ireland, they should be called up to the squad as soon as the manager thinks they are ready for international football.

If they turn down the opportunity because they aren't sure if they want to play for another country, they should be told "thanks,but no thanks" and that should be then end of their association with the Irish national team.

It's not often I give Keane credit, but when he spoke about the focus being grabbed by Grealish's father and waiting for him to make a decision rather than the player, he may have been spot on.

Lucas Hood

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3049357/Abolish-crazy-rules-allow-Jack-Grealish-play-Republic-Ireland.html

Martin Samuel gone off on a bit of a rant.

Lucas Hood

Lucas Hood wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3049357/Abolish-crazy-rules-allow-Jack-Grealish-play-Republic-Ireland.html

Martin Samuel gone off on a bit of a rant.

It's just not cricket.

Ah cricket, that sport where England hoover up Irish players like Morgan, Joyce and Rankin, primarily because of the financial inducements on offer when playing for a test nation...

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

It's just not cricket.

Ah cricket, that sport where England hoover up Irish players like Morgan, Joyce and Rankin, primarily because of the financial inducements on offer when playing for a test nation...

Good point. A lot of nonsense in that article by Martin Samuels. I think his point seems to be rules allowing young players to play for national youth sides that they qualify for, but are outwith where they are actually born, should be abolished. He doesn't outline how that could happen.

Ultimately so long as a player meets qualification criteria it should be a personal decision for the player and his family. Samuel's talks about "switching sides", he doesn't get the irony that if Jack Grealish decides to play for England at senior level he will be "switching sides", given that he has represented Ireland up 'til now.

Kerrydude1981

Deleted User wrote: »

It's just not cricket.

Ah cricket, that sport where England hoover up Irish players like Morgan, Joyce and Rankin, primarily because of the financial inducements on offer when playing for a test nation...

And don't forget the South Africans!!

And they made some of these lads captains

The_B_Man

tonycascarino wrote: »

3 of Jack's 4 grandparents are Irish born and bred. He even played Gaelic Football in Croke Park & has represented us all the way up to U21 level. If he feels English after that then let him off.

Strong words, coming from Tony Cascarino... :pac:

keeponhurling

Not a lot MON or Keane can do.
He said he didn't want to be considered for the Irish senior team. What are they supposed to do, kidnap him?

If he says he is available for selection, then consider if he merits a place in the squad.

It's a bit pointless constantly asking them about it. Questions on whether he will declare for Ireland or England should be directed at Grealish himself.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When James McClean was rinsing that Polish player a few weeks ago I don't think it had a whole lot to do with cool calm professionalism. That's what we need more of, not a kid viewing International football as a choice or a chore.

Your black and white views of football and life are simply out of touch with reality. The idea that a dual nationality kid who has to put some thought into which nation to play for is automatically going to be less of a committed fighter in international football is nonsense. Rational thinking off the pitch doesn't in any way preclude passion on it. Humans are not that simple.

tonycascarino

Lucas Hood wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3049357/Abolish-crazy-rules-allow-Jack-Grealish-play-Republic-Ireland.html

Martin Samuel gone off on a bit of a rant.

Someone needs to let him know of John Barnes, Luther Blissett, Owen Hargreaves, Saido Berahino, Wilfred Zaha, Victor Moses, Shola Ameobi, Tony Dorigo, Leroy Lita, Fabrice Muamba, Cyrille Regis, Matt Le Tissier, Graeme Le Saux, Zavon Hines, John Salako, Nedum Onuoha, Dominic Matteo, Chris Bart-Williams, Nathan Chalobah, Andrew Surman, Craig Johnston, Jlloyd Samuel, Rob Jones, Terry Butcher all born in other countries than England yet all represented England from U21 to Senior Level. Didn't they chase Adnan Januzaj too who was about as English as Napoleon...and this is just soccer we are talking about.

The_Kew_Tour

I see Grealish is in papers tomorrow doing a Sterling part 2.

Might just help us get him.

Beefy78

tonycascarino wrote: »

Someone needs to let him know of John Barnes, Luther Blissett, Owen Hargreaves, Saido Berahino, Wilfred Zaha, Victor Moses, Shola Ameobi, Tony Dorigo, Leroy Lita, Fabrice Muamba, Cyrille Regis, Matt Le Tissier, Graeme Le Saux, Zavon Hines, John Salako, Nedum Onuoha, Dominic Matteo, Chris Bart-Williams, Nathan Chalobah, Andrew Surman, Craig Johnston, Jlloyd Samuel, Rob Jones, Terry Butcher all born in other countries than England yet all represented England from U21 to Senior Level. Didn't they chase Adnan Januzaj too who was about as English as Napoleon...and this is just soccer we are talking about.

Lol. Did you even read the article or just the headline?

tonycascarino

Beefy78 wrote: »

Lol. Did you even read the article or just the headline?

Lol. I read the article and the headline. Thank you for your concern.

Dearg81

tonycascarino wrote: »

Lol. I read the article and the headline. Thank you for your concern.

He mentioned Januzaj in the article and was against him playing for England so your question about Januzaj indicates that you didn't read it.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

Your black and white views of football and life are simply out of touch with reality. The idea that a dual nationality kid who has to put some thought into which nation to play for is automatically going to be less of a committed fighter in international football is nonsense. Rational thinking off the pitch doesn't in any way preclude passion on it. Humans are not that simple.

Has James McCarthy been a success in the green jersey?

Beefy78

Dearg81 wrote: »

He mentioned Januzaj in the article and was against him playing for England so your question about Januzaj indicates that you didn't read it.

Mentioned Butcher as well and made the clear (and pretty obvious) point that place of birth doesn't necessarily determine nationality. The vast majority of those mentioned by tonycascarino have been living in the UK since they were very small children. It's completely different to the case of a kid like Grealish who is born, raised, schooled and, from a footballing perspective, produced in one country and playing football at youth level for another.

I go back to my original point - it should be down to just one thing and that is what nationality a player honestly considers himself to be. If that is Irish in Grealish's case then fair play to him - same as Wilfreid Zaha and Shola Ameobi to take two names from that list. If the fact that the country that took them both in at the age of four, raised them, gave them a life and an opportunity to make a great career for themselves is the one that they feel that they 'belong' to and want to represent then that should be respected. The UK is a land of mass immigration and that should be represented in her sporting teams as it is in every other walk of life.

What needs to be stopped is the likes of Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Deco declaring for Portugal. Januzaj playing for England would have equally have been wrong and I wasn't impressed by England's prior courtship of Mikel Arteta, Paolo Di Canio and Manuel Almunia. If it is the establishment of a panel which can stop that then I think it is a good idea regardless of whether Samuel is right or wrong in his analysis of the Grealish situation.

Trond

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has James McCarthy been a success in the green jersey?

Players take time to adapt to international football, its literally as simple as that. Maybe if Trap started playing him when he first had the chance we'd be seeing more from him now. He'll obviously become a great player for us in time...

eire4

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has James McCarthy been a success in the green jersey?

Too early to say in his international career. But for me he is at this stage one of our most important players.

miroslavklose

I think McCarthy's done well for Ireland. He hasn't been the success a lot of us might have expected but the team is still better for his presence.

noodler

miroslavklose wrote: »

I think McCarthy's done well for Ireland. He hasn't been the success a lot of us might have expected but the team is still better for his presence.

I also think he has done okay, and certainly compares to what others have brought to the table in the same time period.

Definitely think there was more expectation on him - even in this slightly underwhelming form (relative to what we know he can bring from the EPL)

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has James McCarthy been a success in the green jersey?

He certainly hasn't played to his ability and his attitude is questionable. But that's just one player, far from a pattern that we should be concerned about.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

He certainly hasn't played to his ability and his attitude is questionable. But that's just one player, far from a pattern that we should be concerned about.

Thanks for the reasonable assessment (I'm going to ignore some of the posts above for my own sanity).

It is just one player, but he's the most comparable example to this Grealish kid in that he burst into the top level and had a choice to make for which he didn't seem terribly committed one way or another and was weighing up the value of each for a time.

And maybe I am out of touch or something. To be clear though, I don't care about whether these players are born in Ireland or not. Some of the most committed players we ever had came in on the granny rule, but those success stories clearly felt a huge passion playing for Ireland and identified as Irish. I think that is always going to be a vital ingredient for us and, honestly, if he doesn't feel that connection to the green jersey then good luck to him in the English set up and I wish him all the best. 'Settling' to play for us means he is unlikely to produce his best for us and we'll be lumbered with an underperforming 'big' name (if he makes it) that is obliged to play but becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

Mezcita

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Thanks for the reasonable assessment (I'm going to ignore some of the posts above for my own sanity).

It is just one player, but he's the most comparable example to this Grealish kid in that he burst into the top level and had a choice to make for which he didn't seem terribly committed one way or another and was weighing up the value of each for a time.

And maybe I am out of touch or something. To be clear though, I don't care about whether these players are born in Ireland or not. Some of the most committed players we ever had came in on the granny rule, but those success stories clearly felt a huge passion playing for Ireland and identified as Irish. I think that is always going to be a vital ingredient for us and, honestly, if he doesn't feel that connection to the green jersey then good luck to him in the English set up and I wish him all the best. 'Settling' to play for us means he is unlikely to produce his best for us and we'll be lumbered with an underperforming 'big' name (if he makes it) that is obliged to play but becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

But why would any player (not just Grealish) declare for us if he didn't want to? If these guys don't want to be selected for international duty all they have to do is say it.

Fair enough, it caused a bit of a fuss with the likes of Stephen Ireland but people don't really seem to care now.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Thanks for the reasonable assessment (I'm going to ignore some of the posts above for my own sanity).

It is just one player, but he's the most comparable example to this Grealish kid in that he burst into the top level and had a choice to make for which he didn't seem terribly committed one way or another and was weighing up the value of each for a time.

And maybe I am out of touch or something. To be clear though, I don't care about whether these players are born in Ireland or not. Some of the most committed players we ever had came in on the granny rule, but those success stories clearly felt a huge passion playing for Ireland and identified as Irish. I think that is always going to be a vital ingredient for us and, honestly, if he doesn't feel that connection to the green jersey then good luck to him in the English set up and I wish him all the best. 'Settling' to play for us means he is unlikely to produce his best for us and we'll be lumbered with an underperforming 'big' name (if he makes it) that is obliged to play but becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

We've had a lot of players who played for us under the granny rule, for the majority of them that meant making a calculated decision or outright settling. And lots of those players gave their all once they committed. It possible, and fairly normal behaviour, to make a rational choice but then be all in once it's been made.

Trond

Great piece written in response to the Samuel article

https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/a-response-to-martin-samuel-of-the-daily-mail-regarding-jack-grealish/

frisbeeface

Westwood made the Championship Team of the Year along with Richard Keogh and Murphy. Great to see Westwood doing well, think he is our best option in nets. Forde has done nothing to deserve being dropped though.

http://balls.ie/football/270934-championship-team-of-the-year/

bren2001

Ireland to play Northern Ireland behind closed doors in the Aviva on June 3rd, 4 days before England and 10 before Scotland. Hopefully should give us a bit more time to try tactics and give the players a bit of momentum to take into the Scotland match.