Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The man got us to two play-offs. The first one we were robbed; the second one we qualified. Before Trap we weren't even in contention to qualify.

Trap can get no credit for the performance in Paris. Every single interview Trap talks about his system. It got us beaten in Dublin and made the French look untouchable. In the second leg Trap's precious system was abandoned. The team played almost the complete opposite to what his system proscribes and we put it up to the French. Only then were we robbed by Henry's hand ball. Giving Trap credit for that performance in Paris is a completely dishonest analysis of the situation.

Before Trap was Staunton. Of course Trap is better than him. Using Staunton as a yardstick is fúcking idiotic.

Mr.Nice Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

Trap can get no credit for the performance in Paris. Every single interview Trap talks about his system. It got us beaten in Dublin and made the French look untouchable. In the second leg Trap's precious system was abandoned. The team played almost the complete opposite to what his system proscribes and we put it up to the French. Only then were we robbed by Henry's hand ball. Giving Trap credit for that performance in Paris is a completely dishonest analysis of the situation.

Before Trap was Staunton. Of course Trap is better than him. Using Staunton as a yardstick is fúcking idiotic.

Brilliant stuff. So we don't give him any credit for the team's high point but I bet we have to let him take plenty of blame for the bad performances, yeah? I love how Trap had nothing to do with the pre-game preparations for Paris, instructions and so on.

As for Staunton, using the previous manager and where the team where under him and comparing it to where we are now is idiotic? Hardly. I know what I think is idiotic.

Go on and compare him to our other managers then. Where would you rank him in terms of our history of managers?

Banjaxed82

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Brilliant stuff. So we don't give him any credit for the team's high point but I bet we have to let him take plenty of blame for the bad performances, yeah? I love how Trap had nothing to do with the pre-game preparations for Paris, instructions and so on.

As for Staunton, using the previous manager and where the team where under him and comparing it to where we are now is idiotic? Hardly. I know what I think is idiotic.

Go on and compare him to our other managers then. Where would you rank him in terms of our history of managers?

Given Ireland's style of play in every game BUT Paris, I think it's a fairly safe assessment to say he had nothing to do with it.

Mr.Nice Guy

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Given Ireland's style of play in every game BUT Paris, I think it's a fairly safe assessment to say he had nothing to do with it.

His teams have played quite well from behind a few times. There is Paris, the game against Italy away, the game against Russia at home where we started to play much better, the game yesterday. I guess that must have all been Glenn Whelan acting as player-manager.

Banjaxed82

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His teams have played quite well from behind a few times. There is Paris, the game against Italy away, the game against Russia at home where we started to play much better, the game yesterday. I guess that must have all been Glenn Whelan acting as player-manager.

Paris - Yes
Italy - Against 10 men for majority - and at that we still conceded and had to get an equaliser.
Russia - WTF? Trap only had to go an hour into the game and 3 nil down before he changed things.
The game yesterday - What game? Kazakhstan? :eek:

Banjaxed82

Trappatoni's take on the match:

“I’m not happy but today was away game, the first game in the qualifier.

“I am happy because we achieved the result. We have the habit again, we achieve again the habit to win. Now in this moment, all that is important is the result.

“When we see the games in England, we watch about the performance of the player. The performance like Cox, also Jon Walters was important. Now we change it and we got it right to change it, to put in Long and Doyle. Fantastic.

“I said also in the [pre-match press] conference, we have good changes on the bench. Important. In fact, they won the game.”

What the f*ck is Trap on about?

Mr.Nice Guy

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Paris - Yes
Italy - Against 10 men for majority - and at that we still conceded and had to get an equaliser.
Russia - WTF? Trap only had to go an hour into the game and 3 nil down before he changed things.
The game yesterday - What game? Kazakhstan? :eek:

If he was such a bad manager would the players be producing these displays for him?

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Brilliant stuff. So we don't give him any credit for the team's high point but I bet we have to let him take plenty of blame for the bad performances, yeah? I love how Trap had nothing to do with the pre-game preparations for Paris, instructions and so on.

The team played in a fashion directly opposite to his system. He espouses his system in every single interview he gives and says that it needs to be practised every single training session. So when the team plays completely contrary to that system then yes, I'm going to say he doesn't get any credit for the performance arising.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

As for Staunton, using the previous manager and where the team where under him and comparing it to where we are now is idiotic? Hardly. I know what I think is idiotic.

You are suffering from sample bias. That is why your argument is wrong.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Go on and compare him to our other managers then. Where would you rank him in terms of our history of managers?

Well, I've only seen from the Charlton era on. I would have Trap behind McCarthy, Charlton and maybe joint or slightly ahead of Kerr.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His teams have played quite well from behind a few times. There is Paris, the game against Italy away, the game against Russia at home where we started to play much better, the game yesterday. I guess that must have all been Glenn Whelan acting as player-manager.

Only starting to play when you go behind is a ridiculous idea. If we had played properly from the off we could have beaten Italy and qualified automatically. Do you remember how absolutely awful they revealed themselves to be when they got to that WC?

I don't know what you are talking about yesterday for. We were playing Kazakhstan ffs. And we didn't even do anything impressive when we went behind.

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If he was such a bad manager would the players be producing these displays for him?

Which displays? The displays they produce when the go a goal down and abandon his defensive system? Or the displays of complete disorganisation and fecklessness when they are level or ahead in a game?

Mr.Nice Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

The team played in a fashion directly opposite to his system. He espouses his system in every single interview he gives and says that it needs to be practised every single training session. So when the team plays completely contrary to that system then yes, I'm going to say he doesn't get any credit for the performance arising.

But the team were down! Of course they had to change it up. When we are losing he doesn't have us sit back.

Pro. F wrote:

You are suffering from sample bias. That is why your argument is wrong.

You saying my argument is wrong doesn't make it wrong. I have a different viewpoint to you and seemingly the majority, but the example is valid.

Pro. F wrote:

Well, I've only seen from the Charlton era on. I would have Trap behind McCarthy, Charlton and maybe joint or slightly ahead of Kerr.

Okay, that's reasonable. So you are saying he's pretty much the best manager we've had in the decade since Mick.

Pro. F wrote:

Only starting to play when you go behind is a ridiculous idea. If we had played properly from the off we could have beaten Italy and qualified automatically. Do you remember how absolutely awful they revealed themselves to be when they got to that WC?

I don't know what you are talking about yesterday for. We were playing Kazakhstan ffs. And we didn't even do anything impressive when we went behind.

Is it ridiculous for Stoke to only really express themselves against the Uniteds and Citys when they go down? That is where we are internationally. None of our players feature in the top of England. I mention yesterday's game because the players didn't throw in the towel.

Trap just on a par with Kerr?

Have I missed something?

toc2012

rarnes1 wrote: »

Trap just on a par with Kerr?

Have I missed something?

we went 50 mins 1 nil down to kazakhstan

toc2012

toc2012 wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Trap just on a par with Kerr?

Have I missed something?

we went 50 mins 1 nil down to kazakhstan

So that makes his reign on a par with Brian Kerrs? Great logic that.

toc2012

IMO

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

But the team were down! Of course they had to change it up. When we are losing he doesn't have us sit back.

Trap does not train short passing and high pressing. His system is built on the opposite of that. He works on his system every day in training, as he says himself. So when that system is abandoned one week and a good performance (and result) are achieved then I don't see how he can get credit for that. It proves that he was obviously wrong that his system was the best approach.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You saying my argument is wrong doesn't make it wrong. I have a different viewpoint to you and seemingly the majority, but the example is valid.

The sampling bias invalidates your argument. It is possible for a viewpoint to be unsupportable in the face of logical investigation, which yours in this particular case is. (The particular case being that because Trap is better than Stan that that is proof Trap is good.)

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Okay, that's reasonable. So you are saying he's pretty much the best manager we've had in the decade since Mick.

I don't find that impressive. Fair enough if you do.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Is it ridiculous for Stoke to only really express themselves against the Uniteds and Citys when they go down? That is where we are internationally. None of our players feature in the top of England. I mention yesterday's game because the players didn't throw in the towel.

Yes it is ridiculous. But that is a whole other discussion.

A more important point would be that we don't play anything like Stoke. Not even a single bit.

professore

Okay, that's reasonable. So you are saying he's pretty much the best manager we've had in the decade since Mick.

He earns more than all of them put together. The FAI could put that money to much better use.

The positions he plays players like Cox in while leaving Mc Clean on the bench coupled with his inability to man manage means he should go. There are much better managers out there for a fraction of the cost.

Banjaxed82

James McClean post on twitter:

"i apologise for my tweet last night, it was stupid, disrespectful and i let my frustration get the better of me which still aint an excuse"

Mars Bar

Robbie Brady has been called up to the squad so I wonder is that McClean dropped now?

Banjaxed82

Mars Bar wrote: »

Robbie Brady has been called up to the squad so I wonder is that McClean dropped now?

Doubt it. McGeady (plus other senior members) will probably be sent home, so Trap could do with the wingers. No wait... He's got loads of wingers; cox, long, doyle, walters

Pierce_1991

After that tweet it's very possible we've seen the last of James McClean in a Trappatoni side.

A Dub in Glasgo

Footballers and brains don't go together. It was obvious that footballers should stay well clear of twitter especially those who cannot count to 10 before sending their little message

Banjaxed82

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Footballers and brains don't go together. It was obvious that footballers should stay well clear of twitter especially those who cannot count to 10 before sending their little message

devotional1993

mnn doubt it this time. However the guy is very overrated at the moment.

Vurnon San Benito

James McClean - grow the fuck up and put your head down in training.
Absolutely sick of hearing about him and his outbursts.

Rates himself too highly, and an immature kid as well as that.

Knob.

Trampas

My own thoughts on Trap is

Style of football is decades old. Formation needs to change

Playing players out of position (I would have McGeady on right and McClean on left)

Picking players ahead of players who should be in the team or squad (Green, McShane, Keogh) should be even near the squad.

Alienates the team with his team selection.

Stubborn old fart. I think he does things just to prove a point to the media and if you get into a disagreement with him you can forget about your career while he is in charge.

Does he even look at the players week in week out or does he prefer to watch Serie A. FAI should insist he is at prem league games.


I understand we haven't got the likes of messi in the team but use the best you have

karma_

Trampas wrote: »

My own thoughts on Trap is

Style of football is decades old. Formation needs to change

Playing players out of position (I would have McGeady on right and McClean on left)

Picking players ahead of players who should be in the team or squad (Green, McShane, Keogh) should be even near the squad.

Alienates the team with his team selection.

Stubborn old fart. I think he does things just to prove a point to the media and if you get into a disagreement with him you can forget about your career while he is in charge.

Does he even look at the players week in week out or does he prefer to watch Serie A. FAI should insist he is at prem league games.


I understand we haven't got the likes of messi in the team but use the best you have

The last 2 years were essentially a waste. Yes we qualified for a competition but there should have been no room for loyalty to the old guard and we were humiliated because Trap did not play his best team. Not only that, he neglected to give some of teh young players any kind of game time in that competition with idiotic keystone cops like substitutions and selections.

We are now about to waste another 2 years and squander some of the best young Irish talent if changes are not made.

The whole situation is very depressing.

noodler

I would just like to echo the general feeling on McClean.

Absolute idiot.

Banjaxed82

http://twitter.com/JMcC_23

McClean obviously isn't the brightest. Not the first time he's had a twitter brain fart.

Should be banned from using any computer technology.

toc2012

TBH I'm siding with McClean on this one, he was called from his club named in the team, then trap told media he had a virus (throat infection) dragged half way across the world regardless of said virus, McClean tells media he is fit and has no virus, sits on the bench watches a miserable performance, (I'm sure he feels he could have one better) .

I'd be angry too.

buyer95

Seems like McClean has removed his twitter page? https://twitter.com/JMcC_23

Not a bad thing, what with some of the ill advised things he has said on it

aindriu80

didn't read much of the 160 odd pages but here is my 2 cents worth.

Well last night was no surprise for me, after a 3 game losing streak I could never imagine we would control the game from the start and secure the 3 points over the 90 minutes without fuss.

I didn't however expect to go from despair to delight over a period of 5 minutes. Really happy we got the points.

The formation we play and how we play it does look stone age. 4-3-3 would be my preference but we don't have the players to do it. As for Trapattoni he is doing an ok job but only an ok job. When things don't work out for us we don't have any other options but the long ball. I couldn't blame him for anything I saw last night or with any of the player fall outs but we might not be able to afford him if we screw up this qualification.

The players have to control things more. Quick passes and better movement without all the fouls we make should be what we are looking for, even if we don't have quality players

ronsgonawin

aindriu80 wrote: »

didn't read much of the 160 odd pages but here is my 2 cents worth.

Well last night was no surprise for me, after a 3 game losing streak I could never imagine we would control the game from the start and secure the 3 points over the 90 minutes without fuss.

I didn't however expect to go from despair to delight over a period of 5 minutes. Really happy we got the points.

The formation we play and how we play it does look stone age. 4-3-3 would be my preference but we don't have the players to do it. As for Trapattoni he is doing an ok job but only an ok job. When things don't work out for us we don't have any other options but the long ball. I couldn't blame him for anything I saw last night or with any of the player fall outs but we might not be able to afford him if we screw up this qualification.

The players have to control things more. Quick passes and better movement without all the fouls we make should be what we are looking for, even if we don't have quality players

Please explain? We have alot of midfield players all used to playing in a three man midfield.

Trap doesnt believe in quick passes and controlling the game. Have you watched any of the games?

Banjaxed82

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Please explain? We have alot of midfield players all used to playing in a three man midfield.

Trap doesnt believe in quick passes and controlling the game. Have you watched any of the games?

This isn't true. Trap believes it once he has a Liam Brady, Michel Platini or Roberto Baggio in his team.

As if a bunch of no name players from say.....Swansea could possibly knock the ball about affectively.

Trap would play a passing game but only if he has World Class players to do so, so low is his belief/trust in player's abilities.

G.K.

4-3-3 means nothing. Players lining out in a 4-3-3 formation could play the exact same tactics as Trap does.

aindriu80

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Please explain? We have alot of midfield players all used to playing in a three man midfield.

Trap doesnt believe in quick passes and controlling the game. Have you watched any of the games?

Well from a ROI point of view we don't do midfield on the deck. We have lots of midfield players to play 3 across the centre yes but we don't control the game and pass the ball on the deck into attacking positions.

The strikers get the ball from the keeper or the defenders and it makes the play stale from an attacking point of view as the opposition (playing as 1 defending) are all back into formation.

If we are not controlling the game we are resolutely defending and that alone makes the game almost un-winnable.

The team should go from the present 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 but play has to go with it and no manager of ROI has yet wanted to see players playing.

Yes I watch all the games.

Banjaxed82

aindriu80 wrote: »

Well from a ROI point of view we don't do midfield on the deck. We have lots of midfield players to play 3 across the centre yes but we don't control the game and pass the ball on the deck into attacking positions.

The strikers get the ball from the keeper or the defenders and it makes the play stale from an attacking point of view as the opposition (playing as 1 defending) are all back into formation.

If we are not controlling the game we are resolutely defending and that alone makes the game almost un-winnable.

The team should go from the present 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 but play has to go with it and no manager of ROI has yet wanted to see players playing.

Yes I watch all the games.

Mick McCarthy wasn't the worst football to watch.

noodler

toc2012 wrote: »

TBH I'm siding with McClean on this one, he was called from his club named in the team, then trap told media he had a virus (throat infection) dragged half way across the world regardless of said virus, McClean tells media he is fit and has no virus, sits on the bench watches a miserable performance, (I'm sure he feels he could have one better) .

I'd be angry too.

You don't get to holier-than-thou bashings like that in public.

Disgraceful behaviour.

No one to blame but himself if he is out of the next squad.

Banjaxed82

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Mick McCarthy wasn't the worst football to watch.

Yeah and half the country were calling for his head after the World Cup 2002.

Banjaxed82

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah and half the country were calling for his head after the World Cup 2002.

So?

That had nothing to do with his style of play. That's what we're talking about here.

Banjaxed82

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

So?

That had nothing to do with his style of play. That's what we're talking about here.

Just highlighting the fickleness.

aindriu80

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Mick McCarthy wasn't the worst football to watch.

Looking back on Irish soccer I can see that things weren't easy for players/managers/supporters but things change and I hope the way in which we get our results does.

Well looking at Irish soccer now I can only point to a new formation and playing style. We have lots of attributes that makes us tough to beat and gets us some great results but the problem with Irish soccer is that we need more of a machine to eat through qualification games and more in the bag for entertainment.

Banjaxed82

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just highlighting the fickleness.

Hardly fickle. The man had been in charge for 3 campaigns, and sacked at the beginning of his 4th campaign. Not many international managers who manage more than 3 campaigns. Felt like the end of a natural cycle, albeit in poxy circumstances; Roy Keane, etc.

wicorthered

Robbie Brady called into the squad for the Oman game. I'm in shock an actual positive Trapatonni move. Hopefully he's not called in to replace a banished McClean!!

SantryRed

My thoughts on Trap:

He doesn't have a system. He sets out 4-4-2 and that's it.
He clearly doesn't care about the team that much as he is paid 1 million euro a year and never takes in a Premier League game.
His persistence with Paul Green and Paul McShane to name a few further proves he doesn't see how players are playing in the PL and Championship.
He has been so lucky it is unreal so far. So many fortunate things have happened and I'm convinced he has god on his side.

However, people who say he should never have been given a contract after qualifying for Euro 2012 are idiots. How could the FAI not give the man who got our country into the tournament? Regardless of how lucky we are. I hope we continue to fluke results under Trap so we keep our co efficient up so that the new manager will have a 2nd seeded side for Euro 2016.

I do think Trap is causing problems further down the chain for our next manager in 2016, as his persistence in older players who aren't as good will kill us when trying to move our next generation in. Saying that, we'll probably still qualify for France since there's 24 teams going!

IRISHSPORTSGUY

wicorthered wrote: »

Robbie Brady called into the squad for the Oman game. I'm in shock an actual positive Trapatonni move. Hopefully he's not called in to replace a banished McClean!!

Alex Pearce too.

syngindub

no point callling these players in if not given a run though

Renn

syngindub wrote: »

no point callling these players in if not given a run though

The experience of sitting on the bench at Craven Cottage will prove invaluable to them when they get to do the same at Tórsvøllur surely?

listermint

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Alex Pearce too.

link on this?

ronsgonawin

G.K. wrote: »

4-3-3 means nothing. Players lining out in a 4-3-3 formation could play the exact same tactics as Trap does.

Your right it doesn't matter. He needs to go