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Does the politics forum encourage hostility.

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    #32
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    MungBean wrote: »
    Seeing as you think they should be held to a standard what standard do you think they should be held to ?
    Not insulting each other or other posters on the forum in general
    No snide remarks about each other or "handbagging"
    as well as
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056111797
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055516094
    This is the type of posting which led me to create the feedback thread. People using round about arguments to attack the ideology/supporters/user instead of responding to the topic and issue at hand.
    I'm going to assume you were answering my confusion with an explanation rather than targetting this at me...
    Say for example I posted a policy on health care from the ULA. Rather than discuss that policy some people would straight out attack left wing ideology or supporters of Higgins or the ULA as a means to discredit the policy rather than discussing the policy itself.

    So every time a discussion is attempted about a policy people jump in to take a swing at their "opponents". Ignoring the thread topic, ignoring the issue and focusing on their contempt for the supporters of it.
    Do you have any examples of this to link to please


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    #33
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »
    Ok, fair enough. But I don't think the mods are doing enough, even when something is reported.

    I am entitled to say that.

    You are entitled to say that and the mods don't mind such direct criticism once it's polite and reasonable. We're entitled not to agree with you though.


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    #34
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Not insulting each other or other posters on the forum in general
    No snide remarks about each other or "handbagging"

    But its limited to personal insults while allowing attacking them through their party support or ideologies. If you attack a parties support in response to a member of that support asking a question you may as well be attacking the poster. Its a round about way of being a dick and throwing a few digs while remaining within the rules.
    I'm going to assume you were answering my confusion with an explanation rather than targetting this at me...

    Of course it was how could it possible be a reference to your post ? But odd that you'd assume it correct in response while thanking the above post which took it up completely wrong and used it as an excuse to throw a dig. Pretty indicative of how the politics forum is run, encouraging the handbags instead of dealing with it in an adult manner.
    Do you have any examples of this to link to please

    Yes I do, they have been reported, discussed with the cmod and I was advised my an admin not to get specific in this thread. So if you'd care to discuss it privately then pm me but I wont be linking it here.


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    #35
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, thats her saying she doesn't know what you're on about, and you using it to launch into another 'O, The Humanity' speech on the horrors of the politics forum.

    And this is you misunderstanding something in your eagerness to get involved and throw some mud.


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    #36
    pavcro10
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭pavcro10


    I've always found it interesting how politics discussions can completely rile people up more so than any other. People nearly always lose it and fall out. I think it's because our political stances, be they liberal or conservative or whatever, define a person more than any other opinion. More so nowadays than religion.


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    #37
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »
    The soccer forum is a good example of a fairly regulated forum. A class above the Politics forum.

    If that's what you want, good luck to you, I'd oppose any such draconian system bring brought in. I don't think you appreciate the history of the Soccer forum and why it is the way it is.


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    #38
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    pavcro10 wrote: »
    I've always found it interesting how politics discussions can completely rile people up more so than any other. People nearly always lose it and fall out. I think it's because our political stances, be they liberal or conservative or whatever, define a person more than any other opinion. More so nowadays than religion.

    Yeah, as a country gets more secular, politics replaces religion as the reason to hate your neighbour.


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    #39
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    MungBean wrote: »
    But its limited to personal insults while allowing attacking them through their party support or ideologies. If you attack a parties support in response to a member of that support asking a question you may as well be attacking the poster. Its a round about way of being a dick and throwing a few digs while remaining within the rules.
    If you say all members of FF are idiots you will get sanctioned, I've done that before myself. It is a roundabout way of being rude, and it's not tolerated that I have seen
    Of course it was how could it possible be a reference to your post ? But odd that you'd assume it correct in response while thanking the above post which took it up completely wrong and used it as an excuse to throw a dig. Pretty indicative of how the politics forum is run, encouraging the handbags instead of dealing with it in an adult manner.
    Are you really making snide remarks in a thread complaining about snide remarks? Really?
    Nodin said I was confused, which was true, so I thanked it.

    Yes I do, they have been reported, discussed with the cmod and I was advised my an admin not to get specific in this thread. So if you'd care to discuss it privately then pm me but I wont be linking it here.
    Oh I see, that's fair enough, it would have just made it easier for me to understand because any general attacking a support base has been disciplined that I've seen/dealt with


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    #40
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Are you really making snide remarks in a thread complaining about snide remarks? Really?
    Nodin said I was confused, which was true, so I thanked it.

    Its not a snide remark. Its a statement of why I think the politics forum encourages this behaviour. Nodin took me completely wrong and jumped in to accuse me of soapboxing just to get involved. You thanking it (fair play Nodin for throwing a dig) and then admitting in the following post that you could see it was an explanation looks to me like encouraging that type of post while not personally wanting to say such things yourself.
    Oh I see, that's fair enough, it would have just made it easier for me to understand because any general attacking a support base has been disciplined that I've seen/dealt with

    I have explained it as best I can. Its not direct insults I'm talking about, I know they are acted upon. Its the tolerance to the round about insults which break no rules yet are designed for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to show contempt for a support base or people with a belief rather than discussing the topic at hand.


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    #41
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #42
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Absolutely you should be sanctioned. Its a discussion forum and if you want to hurl abuse and show your contempt rather than discuss then you have no place in that forum. Go to AH to shout down anyone you think doesnt have their facts straight, responding to the subject matter and discussing it reasonably is what should be done in the politics forum.


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    #43
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Just writing it off without some sort of back up or links is a bit ignorant tbh. Even link to a previous thread or something. The problem is has a high chance of creating noise and not any type of quality.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #44
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    K-9 wrote: »
    Just writing it off without some sort of back up or links is a bit ignorant tbh. Even link to a previous thread or something. The problem is has a high chance of creating noise and not any type of quality.

    Yup, ignorant, crass and reflects poorly on the person. Doesn't mean it's actionable though.


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    #45
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    K-9 wrote: »
    Just writing it off without some sort of back up or links is a bit ignorant tbh. Even link to a previous thread or something. The problem is has a high chance of creating noise and not any type of quality.

    That's true, it's not a shouting match and it would help to at least link to arguments why
    nesf wrote: »
    Yup, ignorant, crass and reflects poorly on the person. Doesn't mean it's actionable though.

    Kinda true as well


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    #46
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    nesf wrote: »
    Yup, ignorant, crass and reflects poorly on the person. Doesn't mean it's actionable though.

    Yeah. Calling SF voters economic illiterates say isn't really abiding by the spirit of the rules though, if not technically actionable.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    That's true, it's not a shouting match and it would help to at least link to arguments why



    Kinda true as well

    At this stage I kind of know the main posters so you get used to predictable responses!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #47
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #48
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    K-9 wrote: »
    Yeah. Calling SF voters economic illiterates say isn't really abiding by the spirit of the rules though, if not technically actionable.

    You're telling me SF voters are well versed in economics? The problem is the phrasing here, if I said the average SF voter didn't know much about economics or banking I'd be saying the exact same thing but it'd be slightly less offensive.

    It's all shades of grey, disparaging the opposition isn't against the spirit of the rules, gross abuse is which is a very different thing.


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    #49
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    :D illiterate and Conservative Christian. I like it.
    nesf wrote: »
    You're telling me SF voters are well versed in economics? The problem is the phrasing here, if I said the average SF voter didn't know much about economics or banking I'd be saying the exact same thing but it'd be slightly less offensive.

    It's all shades of grey, disparaging the opposition isn't against the spirit of the rules, gross abuse is which is a very different thing.

    Nope, not telling you that at all. Calling a support base economically illiterate when they post here is abuse, it's just clever and getting around rules.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #50
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    K-9 wrote: »
    Nope, not telling you that at all. Calling a support base economically illiterate when they post here is abuse, it's just clever and getting around rules.

    Maybe, but really the same can be said about the support bases of all parties and that's what should be thrown back at the comment. It's basically a statement of fact, it's just nothing unique to SF.


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    #51
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    nesf wrote: »
    Maybe, but really the same can be said about the support bases of all parties and that's what should be thrown back at the comment. It's basically a statement of fact, it's just nothing unique to SF.

    True. Libertarians too so we can all just call each other economic illiterates, great craic!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #52
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    K-9 wrote: »
    True. Libertarians too so we can all just call each other economic illiterates, great craic!

    Yup. We're all clueless basically, that's what I've figured out from studying it, just some more clueless than others.


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    #53
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I understand that to your mind you've explained it all before and dont particularly feel like explaining it again. But in that case you really do have no business being in the thread at all. Your not willing to engage and discuss the subject matter (Policy from elected members of the Dail) because you disagree with the support base, have contempt for them and have discussed the topic before. So there is nothing you can contribute to that thread other than your own hostility and contempt which to me isnt discussing anything its just having a pop for the sake of it. Just because you've discussed it before doesnt entitle you to ignore the topic and launch attacks at the support base.
    I said that Sinn Féin has an economically illiterate support base, which is true. I did not say that all Sinn Féin voters are economically illiterate.

    I'm sure we could all fling mud around then argue how its logically true and lawyer our way out of it but it doesnt change that fact that what you did was ignore the subject matter of the thread and launch into an attack for the sake of attacking based on your contempt for the support base to discredit a policy rather than addressing the policy itself which was the subject of the thread.
    I could equally have said that the U.S. Republican Party has a conservative Christian support base in the South. That does not imply that every Southern Republican voter is a conservative Christian.

    And in a thread about a Republican Budget proposal it would be clear that its not about the budget and about the party and support. Ignoring the topic to focus on your issue with the support because your not bothered for whatever reason to discuss the topic but still want to discredit it isnt reasonable discussion. Its having a go at something because you dislike who says it. It adds nothing whatsoever to the thread other than hostility. I'll accept hostility being a part of politics when its attached to a valid argument but I dont accept it being a valid contribution in itself to a thread.


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    #54
    Valmont
    Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    MungBean wrote: »
    But in that case you really do have no business being in the thread at all.
    If boards.ie is so terrible and mean and unwelcoming, why do you keep coming back? It's already been pointed out that you are asking for some impossible moderation.


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    #55
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MungBean wrote: »
    ................
    I have explained it as best I can. Its not direct insults I'm talking about, I know they are acted upon. Its the tolerance to the round about insults which break no rules yet are designed for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to show contempt for a support base or people with a belief rather than discussing the topic at hand.

    For somebody who has a grand total of 1 post in 'Politics' and 35 in 'Irish Economy', you seem unduly affected by this supposed business.


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    #57
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Valmont wrote: »
    If boards.ie is so terrible and mean and unwelcoming, why do you keep coming back? It's already been pointed out that you are asking for some impossible moderation.

    I'm giving feedback, thats what this forum is for. We are talking about the politics forum not boards.ie.

    And how has it been pointed out that I am asking for impossible moderation ? Its not impossible for a certain way of posting to be discouraged. There is a charter which the mods base their actions upon. That charter can be amended, and its not completely out of the question to propose amending it to reduce the needless antagonising I am talking about.


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    #58
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Nodin wrote: »
    For somebody who has a grand total of 1 post in 'Politics' and 35 in 'Irish Economy', you seem unduly affected by this supposed business.

    What has the post count in the forum have to do with anything ? Are you dismissing my opinion because of my post count ?

    Why are you going out of your way to get personal ? Respond to the issue I have raised not whatever problem you have with me for raising it.


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    #59
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Its nothing personal, as up to this thread, we've never interacted before, as far as I recall. The fact is that one can't claim to be a pilot unless theres a certain numbers of hours flown, a wine taster unless theres been a great deal of wine sampled.

    Somebody is making a claim against a forum, despite a tiny amount of participation there. That rather points to it being a question of the persons sensitivities rather than the forum in question.


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    #60
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Nodin wrote: »
    Its nothing personal, as up to this thread, we've never interacted before, as far as I recall. The fact is that one can't claim to be a pilot unless theres a certain numbers of hours flown, a wine taster unless theres been a great deal of wine sampled.

    Somebody is making a claim against a forum, despite a tiny amount of participation there. That rather points to it being a question of the persons sensitivities rather than the forum in question.

    Someone can read a forum and not like what they see though.


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    #61
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Nodin wrote: »
    Its nothing personal, as up to this thread, we've never interacted before, as far as I recall. The fact is that one can't claim to be a pilot unless theres a certain numbers of hours flown, a wine taster unless theres been a great deal of wine sampled.

    Somebody is making a claim against a forum, despite a tiny amount of participation there. That rather points to it being a question of the persons sensitivities rather than the forum in question.

    I dont believe we have interacted before I didnt mean you have a personal problem with me only that your questioning my right to give feedback based on how many posts I have rather than discussing the issue I have raised.

    I read the forum quite a bit and I'm giving feedback on what I think is an issue.


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