Communism or Facism?

DarylH

If you had only the choice of letting your country in WWII times become a Fascist Dictatorship or a Communist Dictatorship?
Which would you, personally, choose and for what reason?
Both have there Pro's & Con's.
Discuss?

laoch na mona

communism its the slightly lesser of two evils

DarylH

You opinion, but why?
Fascism brought Germany Nil Unemployment and brought about the ultimate demise of the humiliating Treaty of Versailles.
Communism did take from the rich and give to the poor, in a sense, but not entirely.

laoch na mona

fascism is based on racism

biko

What is your own opinion OP?
Discuss

For me it's either or, all dictatorships have the same "qualities" so the living conditions would be the same. Maybe under fascism you'd be better off unless you were one of the people persecuted for some made up crimes.

ejmaztec

DarylH wrote: »

You opinion, but why?
Fascism brought Germany Nil Unemployment and brought about the ultimate demise of the humiliating Treaty of Versailles.
Communism did take from the rich and give to the poor, in a sense, but not entirely.

I don't think that the Russians had any unemployed citizens either.

DarylH

My opinion?
Well as said previously both have pro's and con's but my money is also on Fascism given I am not persecuted for a made up crime.
Hitler was a inspirational speaker, don't call me a "F**king Nazi" but he was AMAZING at speaking to the German People and he instilled faith and confidence in them and anyone he heard, if I was in that time and I was listening to Hitler and his view on Communism I would go with fascism, it also depends if you are rich or poor.
Poor your communist and rich your fascist.
Saying fascism was racism is a dull statement without proof, they would not be considered different thing if they were the same.
Not sure, I did not look it up, but Racism apply specifically to a person vs one race, you could, however, say Hitler was a racist.

LostCorkGuy

Well because I fit the majority in everything (white male christian university student ) i'd definatly pick fascism as i'm completly sure I wouldnt be discriminated against
Plus I really don't believe in socalist policies

DarylH

CorkGuy,
That is a good reason to pick fascism but on another note what have you against Communism as you would not be persecuted there either,

laoch na mona

DarylH wrote: »

My opinion?
Well as said previously both have pro's and con's but my money is also on Fascism given I am not persecuted for a made up crime.
Hitler was a inspirational speaker, don't call me a "F**king Nazi" but he was AMAZING at speaking to the German People and he instilled faith and confidence in them and anyone he heard, if I was in that time and I was listening to Hitler and his view on Communism I would go with fascism, it also depends if you are rich or poor.
Poor your communist and rich your fascist.
Saying fascism was racism is a dull statement without proof, they would not be considered different thing if they were the same.
Not sure, I did not look it up, but Racism apply specifically to a person vs one race, you could, however, say Hitler was a racist.

they thought other races were sub human that's rasict

DarylH

laoch na mona wrote: »

they thought other races were sub human that's rasict

You are able to bold font my own text but unable to provide evidence this coincides with racism, please, elaborate.

LostCorkGuy

Comunist russia was far worse than nazi german for killing its own citizens ! Obviously it wasn't as premeditated and horribly efficent as the german final solution but the treatment of the cossaks , farming class and ukrainiens (spelling ?) was brutal and a greater number died compared with the jewish holocaust !

www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm

DarylH

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

Comunist russia was far worse than nazi german for killing its own citizens ! Obviously it wasn't as premeditated and horribly efficent as the german final solution but the treatment of the cossaks , farming class and ukrainiens (spelling ?) was brutal and a greater number died compared with the jewish holocaust !

Would you say any of the killings of people in Soviet Russia were justified?
Many agree on the fact that none of the killings in Germany were but I am not informed on the deaths of people in Russia aswell as I am with the rest of the war so would you care to tell me if these killings (in Russia) were justified in some way or sort.

LostCorkGuy

www.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Purge

Theres the wiki article on it !
I recently watch a documentary on the cossacks who had to flee to england to escape much like the jews fleeing germany and how they were sent back to their deaths in russia after the war by the british government !
I would like to point out these cossaks were murdered because of their fathers role in the civil war supporting the royal family !

Manach

From my understanding, both secular creeds were equally bad in dealing with nationalities. Based on a book, Communism by Archie Brown, in the late 30s/start of the war the Soviets displaced millions from their ethnic homelands to Siberia(such as the Volga Germans) causing major loss of life. The Nazi's own record in places like the Ukraine is well known. A new book on the subject, Bloodlands, by Tim Sydner puts the death toil in Eastern Eurpe from 1933-45 at 1M per year, caused by both war and state originated famine.

HavingCrack

laoch na mona wrote: »

fascism is based on racism

Attempting to define fascism is extremely difficult. It certainly places immense importance on nationality but not neccessarily racism . Franco's Spain and Mussolini's Italy (in the beginnning) weren't any more 'racist' than any other westernised state at the time.

DarylH wrote: »

Would you say any of the killings of people in Soviet Russia were justified?
Many agree on the fact that none of the killings in Germany were but I am not informed on the deaths of people in Russia aswell as I am with the rest of the war so would you care to tell me if these killings (in Russia) were justified in some way or sort.

Very few of them were. It's likely that a small minority of actual and spies/enemies of Stalin were murdered in the collectivisation campaign, the Show Trails and the Purges but the numbers are tiny in the overall scheme of things. Millions of men, women and children were deported, murdered or simply 'disappeared' on very spurious charges. Often people were denounced by jealous neighbours or work colleagues. Simon Sebac Montefiore discusses the Purges quite well in his book "The Court of the Red Tsar". I amn't overly keen on him as a historian but his depections as to how the vicitims were chosen is excellent.

laoch na mona

DarylH wrote: »

You are able to bold font my own text but unable to provide evidence this coincides with racism, please, elaborate.

labbensraum and the concentration camps are evidence enough they saw Russians, Slavs and Jews as sub human
do you really need this to be explained

HavingCrack

laoch na mona wrote: »

labbensraum and the concentration camps are evidence enough they saw Russians, Slavs and Jews as sub human
do you really need this to be explained

Be careful conflating fascism automatically with nazism. Mussolini (pre 1937) and Franco weren't renowned as being any more racist than any other European state at the time. Salazar's Portugal also falls into this category.

The Croatian and Slovakian regimes however were both extremely nasty indeed. It's a very mixed bag.