irish people criticizing irish americans

Stiffler2

triseke wrote: »

Really? Seriously?

How can one be Japanese in this circumstance? When I was in secondary school, there was a girl in my class whose Irish parents worked with a medical charity and she was born on vanuatu in the pacific. She was there until her mum was medically fit to fly and then came home. is she from Vanuatu?

You are what you eat......
In other words you are where you're from

Considering she was born in Vanuatu in a hospital in that country I would assume she has a birth cert.

What do you think it says on the birth cert as country of Origin or birth country ??

yupyup7up

Stiffler2 wrote: »

you are english, your parents are Irish.


/Sorry dude

actually would love to see your birth cert....but I already know what it says on it if you were born in England - lol

well no, because it says on my passport that my nationality is Irish.

Yeah it says I was born in England but that says nothing about my nationality

Sure I can't even get an English passport because I didn't claim citizenship before I turned 18 and plus I don't have any English ancestry that I know of(All Irish as far back to my great-great grandparents, thats the furthest I've got)

Stiffler2

well if it says on your birth cert you were born in England then you are english.
Maybe not to you , maybe not to the rest of AH or your mates.

To me though you are English.

Surely your country of birth is your nationality.
You cannot choose your nationality just like you can't choose your parents.

yupyup7up

Stiffler2 wrote: »

well if it says on your birth cert you were born in England then you are english.
Maybe not to you , maybe not to the rest of AH or your mates.

To me though you are English.

Surely your country of birth is your nationality.
You cannot choose your nationality just like you can't choose your parents.

no your nationality is determined by the nationality you first obtained AFAIAC.

I NEVER had english nationality as my parents were irish and therefore wanted me to be irish. I have a birth cert from england because i was born there obviously, but that doesnt determine your nationality. If I am english, then why does it say "Nationality : Irish" on my passport?

Tiocfaidh Armani

yupyup7up wrote: »

no your nationality is determined by the nationality you first obtained AFAIAC.

I NEVER had english nationality as my parents were irish and therefore wanted me to be irish. I have a birth cert from england because i was born there obviously, but that doesnt determine your nationality. If I am english, then why does it say "Nationality : Irish" on my passport?

You're as Irish as me. A culchie but you're still Irish:D

Stiffler2

yupyup7up wrote: »

no your nationality is determined by the nationality you first obtained AFAIAC.

I NEVER had english nationality as my parents were irish and therefore wanted me to be irish. I have a birth cert from england because i was born there obviously, but that doesnt determine your nationality. If I am english, then why does it say "Nationality : Irish" on my passport?

well that's a good point my man. I personally would determine the nationality of someone depending on where they were born but that's just me.

It might not be the correct way to do it and my way could be wrong by all counts but that's just how I personally see it.

what is AFAIAC ?

I mean if tha's the case then I'm probably a :::

African-Viking-English-Irish man from Northern Ireland

but no - I was born in Ireland, therefore I'm Irish.
Each to their own though

Sure f**k it, the next person that asks me I'm jamaican ok !
I wasn't born there but I like their dread locks so now I'm jamaican.

DeaKat

I going to regret commenting again... but couldn't resist- the ignorance here is astounding. Stiffler2- have you ever heard of a certificate of birth abroad? Its issued to (for example) Irish people whose child was born outside of Ireland. I'll say it again. Where you are BORN does NOT determine your nationality. It is not that simple. I don't care if you personally believe otherwise- you are wrong.

robp

Fergality wrote: »

I don't mind people identifying with their heritage, but Christ are all these Americanisms annoying.

'African-American' - a black person won't get offended if you say they're black.
'Irish-American' - What the ****? You're American, with Irish roots. No other nationality in the world tried to dilute their identity. What is it with Americans and their social insecurities?

Not true. The term Anglo-Irish is equally accepted as those you mentioned. As is Anglo Indian, British Pakistani, Asian Brazilian or Asian Australian. If countries can accept its citizens having citizenships in more than one country then having a multiple nationality is real. Country of birth is only part of the complex mix that composes nationality.

yupyup7up

Stiffler2 wrote: »

well that's a good point my man. I personally would determine the nationality of someone depending on where they were born but that's just me.

It might not be the correct way to do it and my way could be wrong by all counts but that's just how I personally see it.

what is AFAIAC ?

I mean if tha's the case then I'm probably a :::

African-Viking-English-Irish man from Northern Ireland

but no - I was born in Ireland, therefore I'm Irish.
Each to their own though

Sure f**k it, the next person that asks me I'm jamaican ok !
I wasn't born there but I like their dread locks so now I'm jamaican.

You know that if somebody is born in Ireland now (I think post 2006), that they aren't automatically entitled to Irish citizenship? It's based on the parents.

AFAIAC = As far as I am concerned.

I would have been entitled to british citizenship from birth, but my parents would have to have applied for it for me, but I'm glad they didn't. I'm Irish by immediate descent and I've never held british nationality.

It was just unfortunate that I was born in the last recession resulting in not being born in Ireland!

Mark Tapley

DeaKat wrote: »

I going to regret commenting again... but couldn't resist- the ignorance here is astounding. Stiffler2- have you ever heard of a certificate of birth abroad? Its issued to (for example) Irish people whose child was born outside of Ireland. I'll say it again. Where you are BORN does NOT determine your nationality. It is not that simple. I don't care if you personally believe otherwise- you are wrong.

I keep wavering on this issue of nationality but this is the worst argument I have heard. Calling people astoundingly ignorant because they dont agree with you is just arrogant . You are right it is not a simple issue yet you refuse to entertain another viewpoint.

Chairman Meow

If Irish-Americans want to claim to be Irish, thats fine by me. I dont have a problem with it. I know its 'cool' to hate America nowadays (George Bush! Iraq! etc), but america & Ireland have a long shared past, and if anyone who wants to celebrate it, knock yourself out.
We should be happy anyone actually wants to identify themselves as Irish, tbh.

Stiffler2

DeaKat wrote: »

I going to regret commenting again... but couldn't resist- the ignorance here is astounding. Stiffler2- have you ever heard of a certificate of birth abroad? Its issued to (for example) Irish people whose child was born outside of Ireland. I'll say it again. Where you are BORN does NOT determine your nationality. It is not that simple. I don't care if you personally believe otherwise- you are wrong.

what's the problem here ? I said in one of my posts above that I may be wrong, but regardless if I am wrong or not wrong I will not be changing my view on "how i see it"

DeaKat

Mark Tapley wrote: »

I keep wavering on this issue of nationality but this is the worst argument I have heard. Calling people astoundingly ignorant because they dont agree with you is just arrogant . You are right it is not a simple issue yet you refuse to entertain another viewpoint.

No. I wasn't calling anyone ignorant because they don't agree with ME. It's that the facts are not correct. Stiffler2 said you have to be born in Ireland in order to hold Irish nationality- this is not correct. I'm refusing to entertain a viewpoint that is lacking in factual information, that is not arrogance.

Mark Tapley

DeaKat wrote: »

No. I wasn't calling anyone ignorant because they don't agree with ME. It's that the facts are not correct. Stiffler2 said you have to be born in Ireland in order to hold Irish nationality- this is not correct. I'm refusing to entertain a viewpoint that is lacking in factual information, that is not arrogance.

This isnt only about what passport you are legally entitled to, it is also an emotional issue . I am entitled to both a British and Irish passport . Going by the "facts "I can say I am Irish and this would be true , I could also say I am British and this would also be true. Bureaucracy and legal facts are part of what decides your nationality. just as nationality is a part of your identity .

DeaKat

I absolutely agree with you. My earlier post was simply disagreeing with a definition of identity that relies ONLY on what is on your passport/where you were born.
Identity is a complex issue, and the definition of what construes identity has changed so much in the last - maybe 50 years? People are so much more mobile now, and may be born in a place that they don't at all identify with as part of their nationality (for example).

I think it used to be quite a simple issue (for the most part), because where you were born was likely where one or more of your parents, grandparents etc were born/raised. Not true anymore- for example, my daughter was born in France to an (american born Irish mom) and an Irish born dad- she lived there as a toddler and then moved home (here). She is definately not French, in fact, she has an American accent (as do many of her classmates- for different reasons- perhaps largely to do with pop culture:). It is a really interesting issue to debate I think, because there are so many cases like this- and it can be very weird (and isolating) to grow up feeling like you don't belong anywhere (ie Irish in America, American in Ireland so on and so on... ) the amount of times people have asked me where I'm from and I've replied 'earth' is high - that said, the amount of times people have asked me where I'm from and Iv'e replied 'Ireland' and they have smirked and said - 'no, where are you REALLY from?' is higher.

Fuctifino

What if you were born in NYC to Irish parents, lived there until you were 1, and moved back to Ireland where you've been ever since?

I cant remember America or anything about it. Am i Irish?

Tiocfaidh Armani

Fuctifino wrote: »

What if you were born in NYC to Irish parents, lived there until you were 1, and moved back to Ireland where you've been ever since?

I cant remember America or anything about it. Am i Irish?

You are what you feel you are, not what someone you don't know on the internet tells you ya are!

DeaKat

Fuctifino wrote: »

What if you were born in NYC to Irish parents, lived there until you were 1, and moved back to Ireland where you've been ever since?

I cant remember America or anything about it. Am i Irish?

I would say you were Irish- but more important is whether YOU identify yourself as Irish. I think alot of Irish people are very quick to label other people as being something or other rather than listening to how those people identify themselves. I also think that the line has become so blurry- of course there are legal issues to what constitutes a persons nationality, but what about what culture they identify with? Perhaps one of the problems alot of Irish people have is people coming in to Ireland (read Americans to stick with the topic of the thread) and declaring themselves Irish when they not only have no association whatsoever with Ireland, but they are completely culturally alien- ie they don't understand Irish culture/society etc....

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

You are a Race aren't you?

No. The race is caucasian. The nationality is Irish.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

No. The race is caucasian. The nationality is Irish.

So you can't be racist to the Traveling Community or the Polish then. Or the French or the British. Or those bastard Dutch?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So you can't be racist to the Traveling Community or the Polish then. Or the French or the British. Or those bastard Dutch?

No, that's discriminating against someone based on their nationality. Some people call it racism but it's a bit of a misnomer, since they're not races.

TashaMonster

Deleted User wrote: »

No, that's discriminating against someone based on their nationality. Some people call it racism but it's a bit of a misnomer, since they're not races.

It's called bigotry or xenophobia

Mark Tapley

DeaKat wrote: »

I absolutely agree with you. My earlier post was simply disagreeing with a definition of identity that relies ONLY on what is on your passport/where you were born.
Identity is a complex issue, and the definition of what construes identity has changed so much in the last - maybe 50 years? People are so much more mobile now, and may be born in a place that they don't at all identify with as part of their nationality (for example).

I think it used to be quite a simple issue (for the most part), because where you were born was likely where one or more of your parents, grandparents etc were born/raised. Not true anymore- for example, my daughter was born in France to an (american born Irish mom) and an Irish born dad- she lived there as a toddler and then moved home (here). She is definately not French, in fact, she has an American accent (as do many of her classmates- for different reasons- perhaps largely to do with pop culture:). It is a really interesting issue to debate I think, because there are so many cases like this- and it can be very weird (and isolating) to grow up feeling like you don't belong anywhere (ie Irish in America, American in Ireland so on and so on... ) the amount of times people have asked me where I'm from and I've replied 'earth' is high - that said, the amount of times people have asked me where I'm from and Iv'e replied 'Ireland' and they have smirked and said - 'no, where are you REALLY from?' is higher.

Very well put . I must have taken your post out of context.What you said about growing up not belonging struck a chord with me. Being a "Brit " in an Irish school in the seventies was difficult. Times like you say have changed.

Stiffler2

I like turtles

Deki

how do you feel about monkeys ?

Skopzz

Kiera wrote: »

Bleedin plastic paddys!

Another Loyalist is disguise...

token101

sandmanporto wrote: »

I am pretty sick of this. I am American by birth, and I get pretty frustrated when Irish people tell irish americans they ARE AMERICAN NOT IRISH. I would admit to my scandinavian heritage before my irish! Peace all!

Go back to Sweden then.

woodoo

Leave the yanks alone or i'll burst ya

lividduck

sandmanporto wrote: »

I am pretty sick of this. I am American by birth, and I get pretty frustrated when Irish people tell irish americans they ARE AMERICAN NOT IRISH. I would admit to my scandinavian heritage before my irish! Peace all!

" when good Americans die they go to Paris, when bad Americans die they go to ...America" (Oscar Wilde). Your American , get over it!

lividduck

Fuctifino wrote: »

What if you were born in NYC to Irish parents, lived there until you were 1, and moved back to Ireland where you've been ever since?

I cant remember America or anything about it. Am i Irish?

You are still American, same way as Babe was a pig and the ugly duckling was a swan, you were born in America, your american, it is sad, but you will just have to live with it.

Tiocfaidh Armani

lividduck wrote: »

You are still American, same way as Babe was a pig and the ugly duckling was a swan, you were born in America, your american, it is sad, but you will just have to live with it.

How arrogant telling people what they are and are not.

smash

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

How arrogant telling people what they are and are not.

Your birth cert dictates what you are really.

Tiocfaidh Armani

smash wrote: »

Your birth cert dictates what you are really.

If he doesn't even remember America and has spent his life in Ireland and feel Irish then he is. It's not a black and white issue. He's American born that's about it and he feels Irish so good on 'em.

Johnny Foreigner

sandmanporto wrote: »

I am pretty sick of this. I am American by birth, and I get pretty frustrated when Irish people tell irish americans they ARE AMERICAN NOT IRISH. I would admit to my scandinavian heritage before my irish! Peace all!

If you have an Irish passport, then you are an Irish citizen.
You are American-Irish.
Some Irish don't like Americans, don't take it personally.
Simple.

Johnny Foreigner

smash wrote: »

Your birth cert dictates what you are really.

You are mistaken.
Your parents dictate which nationality you are by their nationalities.
Your passport dictates your citizenship.
Your birth certificate certifies your place of birth.

Johnny Foreigner

Fuctifino wrote: »

What if you were born in NYC to Irish parents, lived there until you were 1, and moved back to Ireland where you've been ever since?

I cant remember America or anything about it. Am i Irish?

Yes, you are American-Irish.

treborflynn

FAG

Mod note: user banned

Killer Wench

Honestly, I don't understand what problem there is in saying that one is Irish American. I think it would be something else entirely if an American identified as Irish when they don't have any significant current ties to Ireland.

To be "Irish American" is an ethnic identity unique to the US. It is not an attempt to steal Irish identity, but an attempt to say that this American's ancestry has ties to Ireland. German Americans do it. Italian Americans do it. Kenyan Americans do it. Chinese Americans do it.