Using a Kindle

mickoregan

DON'T DO IT........:D

artvandelay48

I was thinking of getting my mom a kindle as she tears through books but she's an avid library user and might not want to buy every book she reads. I have heard rumours of an Amazon library service coming soon. Do other library services exist for Kindle readers?

Animord

mickoregan wrote: »

DON'T DO IT........:D

I will write to Santy to amend list. Internet stranger says no. *weeps*

:P

Enkidu

Maybe I'm a heartless git, but for me the incredible thing about a fictional work is the story and characters inside and in a factual work the knowledge you gain about our fascinating world. I get these just as much from the Kindle as I did for books, I love the thing.

It's only for very specific books, for example my Granny's copy of Wuthering Heights, that I'd make an exception, but that's mainly because its an "artefact" as such.

Brian017

mickoregan wrote: »

DON'T DO IT........:D

Seems you have a irrational hatred of Kindles there Micky

Fair enough, you and other people like the smell, feel, texture and the look of books on your shelf etc...

But for others, like me it's all about the content of the book and so the lack of a physical book doesn't bother them. And because it's highly portable you can carry as many books as you want without adding weight to the bag.

I have a physical disability also so reading a big book (500 pages for example) can be a bit of an ordeal, the kindle makes things so much easier for me to read big books.

So while it's not the device for you and I respect your viewpoint, it makes reading so much easier and pleasurable for other people. As with everything in life, it comes down to personal preferences and tastes. ;)

mickoregan

Brian017 wrote: »

As with everything in life, it comes down to personal preferences and tastes. ;)

Of course

pug_

I've been thinking of getting one recently mostly for technical books. I like the idea of being able to highlight passages and make notes knowing I can later undo it again if necessary unlike a real book.

Also the idea of potentially having a whole library available at my fingertips is pretty appealing.

It's kind of weird, but this time last year I was the person saying I'd never give up real books; but then a few months ago it just kind of clicked how useful an ereader could really be and now I'm waiting for the kindle touch to make it's way to our shores.

mickoregan

I wonder how many people buy an e-reader just because it's another gadget??

Ya see, what bothers me sometimes about things like this - e-readers, Blu Ray, HD Television, etc. is that a whole industry exists whose job it is to convince us that we can't possibly be really living if we don't have these things.

Just a thought.

MagicMarker

mickoregan wrote: »

I wonder how many people buy an e-reader just because it's another gadget??

Ya see, what bothers me sometimes about things like this - e-readers, Blu Ray, HD Television, etc. is that a whole industry exists whose job it is to convince us that we can't possibly be really living if we don't have these things.

Just a thought.

This evening I got myself 2,500 books, I could have got a whole lot more.

Just a thought.

Enkidu

mickoregan wrote: »

I wonder how many people buy an e-reader just because it's another gadget??

Ya see, what bothers me sometimes about things like this - e-readers, Blu Ray, HD Television, etc. is that a whole industry exists whose job it is to convince us that we can't possibly be really living if we don't have these things.

Just a thought.

Well the printing press and books are just another, albeit older, gadget. Couldn't you apply the same thinking there and stick to genuine scribal writing on velum?

flyaway.

mickoregan wrote: »

I wonder how many people buy an e-reader just because it's another gadget??

Ya see, what bothers me sometimes about things like this - e-readers, Blu Ray, HD Television, etc. is that a whole industry exists whose job it is to convince us that we can't possibly be really living if we don't have these things.

Just a thought.

I'm sure people are perfectly able to make up their minds about whether or not they need a product. And really, you're convinced you can't do without ''proper'' books so where is the difference...?

You seem really against other people using Kindles! Why?

akonobi

rich.d.berry wrote: »

I would love to see the day when school text books are made available for downloading on e-readers. It's ridiculous the number of books my son is expected to carry around.

If Amazon or B&N sells the textbooks in question, it's no-brainer(if you can afford it). I know what you mean though. If only the books were free like public school textbooks.

pug_

mickoregan wrote: »

I wonder how many people buy an e-reader just because it's another gadget??

Ya see, what bothers me sometimes about things like this - e-readers, Blu Ray, HD Television, etc. is that a whole industry exists whose job it is to convince us that we can't possibly be really living if we don't have these things.

Just a thought.

I don't think you'll find many people convinced that e-readers are a necessity to leading a fuller life. Maybe it's just me but I think the more gadget oriented people tend to go down the tablet route and if they get some enjoyment out of it then I don't see anything wrong with that either.

Personally I think e-readers are genuinely useful devices. Most of the arguments I've seen against using them are based on nostalgia with no logical reasoning against having an e-reader. Things like the feel of a book, the smell of a book, the change in weight from your right hand to your left as you get past the half way point, a nicely ordered library you can leaf through and pick up a book to just leaf through if you want.

But none of that addresses the most important aspect to books which is their content. There is not one word of a difference between a book you pick up on a shelf and an e-book. The font is identical, and the font size is adjustable on an e-reader so can also be identical (this is also a useful feature for me personally as my eyesight isn't the best). Granted the covers are in greyscale, but colour e-ink is in it's early stages and soon things like cookery books will also make sense on an e-reader.

The benefits to an e-reader are numerous and have been mentioned already so I won't go over them again, but I will say that actively taking a stance against them without any good valid reasoned arguments based on their practical application does run the risk of being perceived as being a bit quaint or old fashioned, or dare I say it might show an unwillingness to move with the times.

In my view they are just another advancement in how we do things. It wasn't so long ago people were mourning the death of records when the CD came along, and the CD when mp3s came along. To a certain extent the same thing is happening to DVDs and BR with a lot of people having digital libraries. Books have a much longer history that has to now been slow to change, but over the last few thousand years there have been many changes to how we store written information, and pretty much every one of them has had it's detractors, and people now wonder what it was those detractors had against change. I see no difference here.

mickoregan

flyaway. wrote: »

You seem really against other people using Kindles! Why?

Oh, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I really don't care whether others use them or not. I'm just in a discussion with you folks.
E-read on, baby!

kylith

I have a couple of questions about the Kindle.

I've seen other e-readers in Easons (Sony and other generic brands) and every single one of them flashes negative when you turn a page. Does the Kindle do that, and does it not drive you mad?

MagicMarker

kylith wrote: »

I have a couple of questions about the Kindle.

I've seen other e-readers in Easons (Sony and other generic brands) and every single one of them flashes negative when you turn a page. Does the Kindle do that, and does it not drive you mad?

Yes it does and no it doesn't, it only happens for a split second, it's no more annoying than having to turn an actual page.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Aseth

I think kindle being this 'new cool thing' may actually encourage some people to reach for a book - even if it's in electronic format. A lot of people simply don't read anymore. Also it's more practical if you move a lot.

syklops

mickoregan wrote: »

Oh, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I really don't care whether others use them or not. I'm just in a discussion with you folks.
E-read on, baby!

Thats not the impression you give. By page 3 of this thread you had made several posts against the kindle including one that said:

No dont do it!

in response to another poster who seemed genuinely torn on the idea.

That doesn't sound like a discussion in my book(pun not intended).

I wonder if it'a perhaps an age thing. Maybe with 40+ yrs of book reading behind me I'm just too old to want to change

My father is 75 and travels a lot, mostly by air. He got a kindle about two years ago and loves it. He can slip it into the pocket of a suit jacket so easily. He reads thing like Tom Clancy 1000+ page turners so there was no chance of doing that before.

He then suggested we buy one for my aunt. She used to love reading but when she was in her 30's got viral arthritis and had to give up on books because she could not turn the pages anymore. Now she is back to reading 3-4 books a week.

My mother is the luddite of the family. She refused to get a mobile, she refused to learn how to use a computer, and she refused point blank about even trying to read an ebook reader. Guess what she wants for Christmas. A kindle. She has seen my dad finish a book while sitting in the conservatory and say "wow that was really good, I'm going to start the sequel now", and he taps on his kindle and has it and starts reading it, without having to stir from his chair.

All three of these people have a lot more than 40 years behind them and they are embracing the technology.

bluewolf wrote:

also easier to remember what page something was on when i remember how much of the book i was holding in each hand!!

When I am reading on the tram to work, I regularly catch myself memorising the page number before turning off the E-book reader despite it remembering what page I was on. Its a habit of 25+ years of reading which is hard to get out of but it demonstrates how similar the reading experience is.

I like the Kindle Fire for reading

I was furious with both Amazon and Barnes and Noble for naming their tablets the same as their e-readers. It muddied the waters for non-techy people who don't know the difference between e-ink and LCD, and damaged sales in my opinion. This is why you still hear the "glare from the screen, hurts eyes" etc all the time. Why could amazon not call it the Amazon Fire and leave the kindle bit off of it. An e-book reader and a tablet are 2 different devices and until they build e-ink into a tablet they will remain different devices.

This has resulted in headlines such as "Amazon releases new kindle" when its a tablet not an e-reader. I wonder how many people this christmas will ask for a kindle e-reader and get a tablet instead. Like in my above example, e-readers have introduced a new consumer to the market place. Neither of my aforementioned relatives have MP3 players, or laptops or smartphones that us younger techy people have. Now Amazon have gone and confused them by giving two horses the same name.

flyaway.

kylith wrote: »

I have a couple of questions about the Kindle.

I've seen other e-readers in Easons (Sony and other generic brands) and every single one of them flashes negative when you turn a page. Does the Kindle do that, and does it not drive you mad?

You don't even notice really and it's just like the page of a book passing your eyes when you turn it. And, from what I've read, the latest Kindle only flashes every 6 pages

mickoregan

syklops wrote: »

Thats not the impression you give. By page 3 of this thread you had made several posts against the kindle including one that said:

"No, don't do it"

in response to another poster who seemed genuinely torn on the idea.

Are you serious? I kinda thought it was obvious that this was a humorous response.

OK, you got me. I'm pretty much convinced there's a conspiracy amongst the media and electronics companies to extract our natural brain energy through these devices and replace it with their own evil intentions. We have to fight it ...FIGHT IT, I TELL YA.....

hooplah

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There's actually a growing market for LP's and I think that will continue long after CD's have bitten the dust completely. For some people it will be related to the sound quality but I suspect for many more its because an LP gives you an object with cover art, a nice feel and that looks good on your shelf. If you buy an LP these days it often comes with a code for a digital download and with the prevalence of mp3 players and smart phones I reckon the download probably gets listened to more than the vinyl.

Since I started working in a public library I probably buy more books than I did previously. However I'm less likely to buy paperbacks unless they are books that are published only in paperback. More likely I'll read something (by borrowing it for free) and if I like it and want to own a copy I'll get a nice edition with a cool cover, or a hardback, or something that makes it worth spending the money.

I suspect I'll keep buying 'nice' editions of books I like, whether I read them originally in hard copy or not.

I'm not against e-readers and have downloaded technical books in pdf. Mind you I haven't paid for any of them and can't see myself ever paying the equivalent of a paperback for any e-reader book. I would be more inclined to get an ereader when books are more available in a cross platform format and when its easier to lend someone a copy of your book.

Turtwig

I've never really been one for getting gadgets just for the sake of them being new and fancy. The kindle always seemed a bit of fad to me. For one, the screen was too small. For another, you could not write or annotate or anything other than ridiculously slow typed words on the books. They just seemed utterly pointless. I spend the greater proportion of my day reading pdf files on a laptop or desktop. Needless to say this is a right whole pain in the eyes and becomes utterly irritating after a while at times. I used to print out the pdfs but that turned out to be a waste of time and paper as a lot of pdfs would turn out to not be that useful. So against my better judgement I followed the advice of a few friends and plunged in and got a cheapo kindle. Christ almighty! I have never been able to say there's ever before been a gadget that increased my productivity so much. The amount of stuff I've read - and not just pdfs - is incredible! I was always a readaholic, but now I think I just may have a chronic problem. Bleh, it's freaking awesome.

Aside from the fact that some technical papers don't always display correctly, the big gripe I have with the current kindle I possess is the lack of touchscreen input. Currently, I have a blank a4 page beside me which I sketch crap on, and then use my computer to annotate the stuff back into the document. If a kindle allowed me to sketch notes onto it as I read it in real time in that lovely e-ink I think I'd be in heaven. And a kindle that allowed you to interface with LaTeX...ohhhhh *salivates*

Oh, and a method for counteracting motion while in transport by tracking your eyes or something would be awesome.

First gadget in a long while that I actually have a strange sort of affection for.

Byron85

I got a Kindle Keyboard last week and finally got around to using it yesterday. It's great. I find it a lot easier on my eyes, speaking as someone who is always sat in front of his computer or reading a book. It's going to be very useful for reading academic journals etc as i'm in the final year of my degree.

A very worthwhile purchase indeed.

Toby Take a Bow

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'd agree, largely. But I think you're putting too much emphasis on what the consumer wants. From what I've seen over the years, it's what Amazon and some other companies want, and if they want electronic reading devices, that's what we'll get. It was the same with tapes, CDs and iPods. Of course, there are benefits that come with the new technology (mainly portability in the case of music, and to a lesser extent for books), but as you've said yourself, the kindle hasn't yet mastered an actual physical book in terms of readability and format and still there's a huge growth in the sector (a huge growth measured against a relatively small growth, but growth in a recession nonetheless). For the big companies like Amazon, buying ebooks means you won't be able to get anything second hand which is a huge bonus for them. Same applies to publishers (which is why I prefer to read articles about growth from companies that aren't directly invested in placing ebooks as the future).

I would also suggest that growth at the moment isn't necessarily a signifier of growth in the future. There may be a tipping point in the future as technology manages to finally perfectly reproduce paper in what it's giving us, but it may be further off than we think.

Other problems would include the rate that the electronic copies we purchase degrade. I don't think enough research has been done in this area, but I know that many libraries don't consider their electronic copies of rare books to be with them for anything like the period the actual books have remained.

I've said it before, but I would be convinced to get some form of ereader when it comes in foldable computer screen technology, possibly something that shifts size so I can read whatever takes my fancy (atlas, cookbook, children's book, etc). I don't travel enough, and I don't need to keep a thousand books on me at all times and the books I buy at the moment are always cheaper than the electronic version.

Toby Take a Bow

iguana wrote: »

Twenty years? If you'd said five I'd be thinking you were pessimistic about the speed of advances in consumer technologies but twenty?

Maybe. The eReader hasn't had a huge development since it came out with eInk which was ... 5 years ago? We're due!

pug_

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Maybe. The eReader hasn't had a huge development since it came out with eInk which was ... 5 years ago? We're due!

Well then good news, the first colour e-ink readers were released earlier this year. I'd say that's a bit of a development

Dades

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

For the big companies like Amazon, buying ebooks means you won't be able to get anything second hand which is a huge bonus for them. Same applies to publishers (which is why I prefer to read articles about growth from companies that aren't directly invested in placing ebooks as the future).

On the flip side there are thousands of legally free books (mostly classics) available to eReader users. No delivery charge - properly free. Also, both Amazon and publishers are acutely aware that anyone with the Internet and a bit of savvy can (illegally) get any new release for free. eReader formats are readily convertible so once you get an eBook for one device that's all you need. So, like with MP3s, the Big Corporations don't really hold all the cards, they are just accepting of a business model that can benefit everyone, depending how it's embraced.

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Maybe. The eReader hasn't had a huge development since it came out with eInk which was ... 5 years ago? We're due!

Certainly eInk displays have come on in the last 5 years. Older models suffered from glare, but no you can read eReaders in direct sunlight. The contrast has been steadily improving, too.

ixoy

There's one other thing that e-books have brought: a shift in the nature of publishing. The advent of e-books enables people to self publish, and reach a wide audience, that would otherwise never have been attainable. Obviously this isn't without its flaws - publishing houses can offer editors, etc that the self published can't reach.
However, it does allow new talent to arise in an industry that's often afraid to take risks.

On the same token, many shops often only push the best sellers (particularly the supermarket chains), not allowing new authors any shelf space. Using e-books, it's easier to promote your work (through blogs, recommendations, Amazon's features such as "Other customers bought..") and have your work noticed. It gives people chances they might never have otherwise and it's paid off very well for a range of new authors.

Toby Take a Bow

pug_ wrote: »

Well then good news, the first colour e-ink readers were released earlier this year. I'd say that's a bit of a development

That is good news, I missed that. Soon they'll be able to adequately match what a paper book gives you. I'll probably have to wait until the prices come down, though: I definitely can't afford any of the colour eink readers I saw online.

Dades wrote: »

On the flip side there are thousands of legally free books (mostly classics) available to eReader users. No delivery charge - properly free. Also, both Amazon and publishers are acutely aware that anyone with the Internet and a bit of savvy can (illegally) get any new release for free. eReader formats are readily convertible so once you get an eBook for one device that's all you need. So, like with MP3s, the Big Corporations don't really hold all the cards, they are just accepting of a business model that can benefit everyone, depending how it's embraced.

I presume Amazon and the rest think they can beat the illegal download market, in the same way as the music industry thought they could too. As long as they look after that market, and release a new-better-more improved model every three years or so, they should be doing nicely.

ixoy wrote: »

On the same token, many shops often only push the best sellers (particularly the supermarket chains), not allowing new authors any shelf space. Using e-books, it's easier to promote your work (through blogs, recommendations, Amazon's features such as "Other customers bought..") and have your work noticed. It gives people chances they might never have otherwise and it's paid off very well for a range of new authors.

Could authors who are published in paper form not use all those forms to publicize their work (blogs, recommendations)? My local Waterstone's - before it closed down - really went to down on recommending books by lesser known authors. The 'other customers bought' option on Amazon isn't really equivalent to the supermarkets pushing the bestsellers at half price, to be fair.

Any of the self-published work I've read has been self-published for a reason. But bringing new authors to the fore - and I'm sure it's only time before someone who is actually good and whose books are well-written - can only be a good thing.