Grand National 2012

ste2010

AngryBollix wrote: »

I had €20 each way on Sunnyhillboy. I almost wretched in the bookies

That's why your called angrybollix...I can picture ye standing there wretching in the bookie snapping pens and throwing at the tv's ye angry bollix

Huntley

A 4 and a half furlong trial race on the flat? I've heard it all now.

hucklebuck

robbie1977 wrote: »

If they had a max of 30 runners and for the top 1 foot of the fences had the haydock style brush hurdletype of stuff for the top foot it would still be a great spectacle but not half as many fallers.

I don't think this would make any difference, there is plenty of give in the top of those fence, most fallers are due to the depth of the fences and the difference heights on the take off and landing sides in my opinion, the other issue is having to take evasive action with bodies strewn on the deck.

hucklebuck

Huntley wrote: »

A 4 and a half furlong trial race on the flat? I've heard it all now.

Well there are 5 furlong races

ste2010

hucklebuck wrote: »

Huntley wrote: »

A 4 and a half furlong trial race on the flat? I've heard it all now.

Well there are 5 furlong races

You were joking though huckle? It would be hilarious...I can imagine the 4m version of overturn or celestial halo p*ssing it off as a front runner only to be pulled up with a mile and a half to run

Juwwi

hucklebuck wrote: »

Well there are 5 furlong races

I think theres 2 furlong races in America.

And if humans can run 26 miles on the flat why cant a horse run 4 and a half on the flat.:D.

ste2010

robbie1977 wrote: »

hucklebuck wrote: »

Well there are 5 furlong races

I think theres 2 furlong races in America.

And if humans can run 26 miles on the flat why cant a horse run 4 and a half on the flat.:D.

And If horses can be handicappe why can't humans..usain bolt carrying top weight of 15stone

hucklebuck

ste2010 wrote: »

You were joking though huckle? It would be hilarious...I can imagine the 4m version of overturn or celestial halo p*ssing it off as a front runner only to be pulled up with a mile and a half to run

No, not about the 4m 4f flat race, imo if it irons out the non stayers it will make for a better race, this way you have the highest rated horses that get the trip and then the only lottery is the race itself

If there was decent prize money Big Bucks would run and sluice in.

hucklebuck

ste2010 wrote: »

And If horses can be handicappe why can't humans..usain bolt carrying top weight of 15stone

I would love that, I could run against him carrying one packet of Kerrygold and still lose by 3 seconds!!!

hucklebuck

robbie1977 wrote: »

And if humans can run 26 miles on the flat why cant a horse run 4 and a half on the flat.:D.

A 26 mile horse race would be brilliant, it would be just like Formula 1 but watchable!!

ste2010

hucklebuck wrote: »

If there was decent prize money Big Bucks would run and sluice in.

He's like a trundle wheel powered by a Ferrari engine!
On another note off topic...I know u were asking about time form a few weeks ago. I came across their pod casts yesterday. One to follow

hucklebuck

RSPCA looking for a review of the National, that didn't take too long...

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=524165&lid=&raceid=&title=RSPCA+urge+National+scrutiny&ref=atrPA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Sat

hucklebuck

ste2010 wrote: »

He's like a trundle wheel powered by a Ferrari engine!
On another note off topic...I know u were asking about time form a few weeks ago. I came across their pod casts yesterday. One to follow

Cheers man, I am still trying to nail down my selection process, it is either very good or piss poor with no happy medium.

ste2010

[/QUOTE]

Cheers man, I am still trying to nail down my selection process, it is either very good or piss poor with no happy medium.[/Quote]

No worries. To be honest your not alone. Usually do very well until jan. then chelt finds out alot of horses and aintree unusually was pretty ok for me this year but usually kills me. I'm considering knocking handicaps on the head..if I looked at them this is where I fall down the most. I'm not a layer but wouldn't rule it out..I worry it would be laboursome and take a little bit of the enjoyment out of the gamble.
Can't wait for punchestown now..some great memories up there. Last year had 5 winners (including a 16-1 I tipped up) and 2 places in 1 day with all the lads. Surely a success that will never be repeated, We went bananas after popping bottles and dancing like sean puffy combs around the court hotel after! :-)

Juwwi

Edit Horse appears to be fine .

Timfy

I was born and brought up in Lambourn, as most of you know it is a horse racing village, one of the largest centres of all things equestrian in the UK. I love the purity and grace of flat racing. I love the passion, strength and sheer spectacle of national hunt. I was raised in an environment that was permeated with racing as did most of my friends. However I feel that the Grand National is nothing to do with the core spirit of racing. It is just a modern day version of the Roman games, with a stupid, braying crowd expecting, and unfortunately getting, death and destruction. I know that the course has been "sanitised" and is a shadow of it's former self but when quality horses die, not just also rans that obviously wouldn't manage the course, but Cheltenham Gold cup winners, then something is deeply, irrevocably wrong. I'm no tree hugger nor animal rights activist but seeing a race continue around the corpses of two mighty animals strikes me as somewhat inhumane. I wonder if in the forthcoming Olympics that should an athlete die during the 1500m, whether the other runners would just continue around him as if he was roadkill?
My friend, heavily involved with racing and still living in Lambourn had this to say "It was a very sad day today and deeply upsetting to hear of any horse being put down let alone one of such amazing charizma as Synchronize. The quality of the crowd has definately changed the public attitude of the race and not for the better in my opinion, pure sterile greed for the big win ! It needs less runners and tougher qualifying races to make these owners and trainers think a bit harder about the risks rather than the glory."

Morgans

Timfy wrote: »

I was born and brought up in Lambourn, as most of you know it is a horse racing village, one of the largest centres of all things equestrian in the UK. I love the purity and grace of flat racing. I love the passion, strength and sheer spectacle of national hunt. I was raised in an environment that was permeated with racing as did most of my friends. However I feel that the Grand National is nothing to do with the core spirit of racing. It is just a modern day version of the Roman games, with a stupid, braying crowd expecting, and unfortunately getting, death and destruction. I know that the course has been "sanitised" and is a shadow of it's former self but when quality horses die, not just also rans that obviously wouldn't manage the course, but Cheltenham Gold cup winners, then something is deeply, irrevocably wrong. I'm no tree hugger nor animal rights activist but seeing a race continue around the corpses of two mighty animals strikes me as somewhat inhumane. I wonder if in the forthcoming Olympics that should an athlete die during the 1500m, whether the other runners would just continue around him as if he was roadkill?
My friend, heavily involved with racing and still living in Lambourn had this to say "It was a very sad day today and deeply upsetting to hear of any horse being put down let alone one of such amazing charizma as Synchronize. The quality of the crowd has definately changed the public attitude of the race and not for the better in my opinion, pure sterile greed for the big win ! It needs less runners and tougher qualifying races to make these owners and trainers think a bit harder about the risks rather than the glory."

You do realise that the screens that the horses ran around were up for an injured jockey.

Qualifying races?

newuser89

what a race in compliance ran in 5th
i was watching him after giles cross pulled up as the woman was adamant i back it
ran on the outside from what i could see and made very gd ground on the leading bunch towards the last few fences
had to listen to her all day on how shes always right(i kept telling her it was a waste a money ,no chance)

b757

naughto wrote: »

where can i watch the race again??

Yeah here it is on youtube..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur_hgbhX5gg

€10 e/w on Black Apalachi..

Nulty

I can't believe the national was won by a nose (short head but really, a nose)

:eek:

barney4001

Katie gave her horse a great ride just did not stay on for her

UrbanSea

Timfy wrote: »

I was born and brought up in Lambourn, as most of you know it is a horse racing village, one of the largest centres of all things equestrian in the UK. I love the purity and grace of flat racing. I love the passion, strength and sheer spectacle of national hunt. I was raised in an environment that was permeated with racing as did most of my friends. However I feel that the Grand National is nothing to do with the core spirit of racing. It is just a modern day version of the Roman games, with a stupid, braying crowd expecting, and unfortunately getting, death and destruction. I know that the course has been "sanitised" and is a shadow of it's former self but when quality horses die, not just also rans that obviously wouldn't manage the course, but Cheltenham Gold cup winners, then something is deeply, irrevocably wrong. I'm no tree hugger nor animal rights activist but seeing a race continue around the corpses of two mighty animals strikes me as somewhat inhumane. I wonder if in the forthcoming Olympics that should an athlete die during the 1500m, whether the other runners would just continue around him as if he was roadkill?
My friend, heavily involved with racing and still living in Lambourn had this to say "It was a very sad day today and deeply upsetting to hear of any horse being put down let alone one of such amazing charizma as Synchronize. The quality of the crowd has definately changed the public attitude of the race and not for the better in my opinion, pure sterile greed for the big win ! It needs less runners and tougher qualifying races to make these owners and trainers think a bit harder about the risks rather than the glory."

The horse had won a Gold Cup.What kind of qualifying races would he want to see if that isn't accepted?


Also, using this human v. horse argument is not comparable.

Huntley

sting60 wrote: »

The person who told me Ballabriggs at 50/1 is now telling me Giles Cross big time.Its the National but this horse is in serious order.This is my best info this year so far I tipped Countrywide Flame as a banker at Cheltenham,the war office had 5e e/w on it at 33/1 loads of brownie points.

sting60 wrote: »

Back the horse.He is going to run a blinder.

sting60 wrote: »

The owners /trainers in my opinion know more than you.You are a fool please do not contact me again.

Huntley wrote: »

If the owners/trainers think he will stay 4m 4f then I would question whether they know more than me. We will see who the fool is in 9 days.

Giles Cross is best priced 25's, considering I am such a generous and charitable guy I will exclusively lay you whatever you want at 27's.

sting60 wrote: »

Where you at Cheltenham fool when I asked you for a challenged.You shut up .very ,very right.

Very, very wrong it seems.

What was it this time Sting, did he have a cough?

irish_stevo815

What a dramatic finish to the race. Always sad to hear horses dying from a race.

Had 5 horses backed, only 1 finisHed for me: sunnyhillboy, but had him to win. Also had synchronized (RIP), kilyglen, black apalachi and alpha beat, all each way.

Will prob see some big changes for next year after them fatalities. Synchronized should never have been put into the race after what happened during the parade. The whole start of the race was a shambles, but the finish was so so dramatic

mystika121

Can I just ask how does a horse qualify for the Grand National? Can lesser rated horses pay a supplement fee to enter the race?

Also, why is the tape used at the start when most steeplechases don't use it?

Thanks.

Stewie Griffin

Huntley,
Giles Cross was pulled up at the 11th fence, about 2 miles (at a rough guess) into the race. It's hardly conclusive proof that he wouldn't have stayed, seeing as he has won over 3m4f this season.
FWIW, I don't think he would have stayed the trip either, but I just don't think you got the proof you needed yesterday.

Morgans

mystika121 wrote: »

Can I just ask how does a horse qualify for the Grand National? Can lesser rated horses pay a supplement fee to enter the race?

Also, why is the tape used at the start when most steeplechases don't use it?

Thanks.

Each horse has a rating based on that they have done to date on the racetrack. The top 40 rated horses run.

Tape is used in all steeplechases. Sometimes its more visible than others.

Morgans

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

Huntley,
Giles Cross was pulled up at the 11th fence, about 2 miles (at a rough guess) into the race. It's hardly conclusive proof that he wouldn't have stayed, seeing as he has won over 3m4f this season.
FWIW, I don't think he would have stayed the trip either, but I just don't think you got the proof you needed yesterday.

Was against Giles Cross in two match bets yesterday as I didnt think he would finish. Those who support him will blame the ground. I'll happily take him on again next year, but how he ran yesterday proves no one right or wrong.

Huntley

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

Huntley,
Giles Cross was pulled up at the 11th fence, about 2 miles (at a rough guess) into the race. It's hardly conclusive proof that he wouldn't have stayed, seeing as he has won over 3m4f this season.
FWIW, I don't think he would have stayed the trip either, but I just don't think you got the proof you needed yesterday.

We didn't see whether the horse stayed or not but that isn't entirely relevant in this situation.

If somebody felt entitled to call me a fool last week than you can be sure I will remind him that the horse didn't run a "blinder" and he wasn't "very,very right".

Huntley

If memory serves me right I think a horse has had to place in a 3 mile chase before their rating is taken into account.

gscully

I think they should leave the race alone.

Just my opinion, but I think the ground has a lot to do with it. We've had mild and dry weather early Spring for the last two years and the ground has been harder than it should be for such jumping. I'd wager that there's a higher attrition rate during summer NH meetings than Winter. The cross-country at Cheltenham lost two horses also and was the only part of the course that couldn't be watered. Maybe if it was determined that the Grand National be run on ground no better than good-to-soft or soft, that would help? Good and fast ground is fine for lighter flat horses with nine stone on their backs, but not for horses landing from five feet high with eleven stone on them.

As an aside, does anyone know if racehorses use standard horse-shoes or are they specially designed for absorbing impact? I know I wouldn't go out running unless I had plenty of cushioning.

Morgans

Huntley wrote: »

If memory serves me right I think a horse has had to place in a 3 mile chase before their rating is taken into account.

NOt sure if this is the case. Quoilbet and Or Noir De Samoza ran last year with ratings from france. I dont think that they had won or placed in 3m chases. Maybe some restrictions have been added. I remember Majed running in his first chase in the National for Martin Pipe. Might have forced a change.

UrbanSea

Such rubbish being posted over in the thread in After Hours.


Apparently stable workers don't care about the horses as long as they're paid

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

Such rubbish being posted over in the thread in After Hours.


Apparently stable workers don't care about the horses as long as they're paid

Whats new? Whenever I feel like posting rubbish, that's where I go.

Sunnyhillboy was so unlucky....I might post that in this thread for a few weeks til I get over it

:P

Nulty

Did anyone else see the lass of Neptune Collonges slapping the neck of the horse in the winners enclosure after he won the race. She was belting the life out of the soft peachy animal. It was a disgrace and totally cruel and abusive behaviour. You could hear the slaps a mile away and I think she should be locked up and the key thrown away. Poor animal being beaten by a human. Absolutely disgusted.

Big Daddy Cool

i feel they should leave the race as it is.

There is no way possible you can ever reduce the risks of jump racing where you will get zero fatalities or injuries, i feel if you continually decrease the size of the fences its possible you could increase the emphasis on speed which in turn could lead to more fallers because horses will be going that quick they wont meet a jump properly or lose their balance on landing which again in turn could lead to more problems and what do you do then,

i know maybe have jump racing over 5 miles without whips with 2 show jumping poles a maximum 2 feet off the ground and a maximum field of 15 runners.

now i bet that would keep ''everybody'' happy :rolleyes:

Colonel Sanders

Morgans wrote: »

Huntley wrote: »

If memory serves me right I think a horse has had to place in a 3 mile chase before their rating is taken into account.

NOt sure if this is the case. Quoilbet and Or Noir De Samoza ran last year with ratings from france. I dont think that they had won or placed in 3m chases. Maybe some restrictions have been added. I remember Majed running in his first chase in the National for Martin Pipe. Might have forced a change.

Wasn't the 3m stipulation only introduced this year?

hucklebuck

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Wasn't the 3m stipulation only introduced this year?

Yeah after last year, as far as I remember they changed it to horses 7 or older who had placed in a 3 mile chase or further, I think the rationnel was that 6 year old are too inexperienced for it.

I have a feeling there is a minimum rating too but not too sure, I remember Mullins giving out about one of his but I think that was because he had won 2m6 ish but Mullins had to run him again and plot him in a 3 mile plus race so his horse could qualify.

Nulty

Winning owner John Hales pays tribute to JP McManus, who owned the runner-up and was first to contragulate him despite losing his Gold Cup hero during the race. "We lost One Man here in 1998 the year he won the Champion Chase. The highs and lows of this game are extreme," Hales says.

Nulty

Frank Berry

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/12/04/15/manual_121612.html&BID=465

Great info from Evan Williams

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/12/04/15/manual_114522.html&BID=465

**Jockeys comments**

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/12/04/14/RACING_National_Jockeys.html&BID=465

naughto

UrbanSea wrote: »

Such rubbish being posted over in the thread in After Hours.


Apparently stable workers don't care about the horses as long as they're paid

i have being reading them as well next week when all of this is forgotten it will be the same people posting in fancies for the day OR the tips thread or people like huntly running logs that will go about there business as usuall.

i dont post much in the fancies as i would get a lot wrong,put i have being following treads like this and ones like pyros (that lad was unreal for tips)
for a long time now.
horses die all the time in races just cos its the grand national and was on prime time tv does not give every tool who knows nothing about horse racing or what work goes in to getting a horse to agand national a right to say it should be stoped.
rant over:)

hucklebuck

Did you see According To Pete's owner came out and said he would never run another horse in the National, what a prize prick!

He lapped up the attention, knew the risks, he won £150,000 off the horse decides to throw his horse into a high risk race and then comes out with unhelpful comments when the industry is under fire.

I hope his ****ing paper shop goes bang :mad:

Huntley

hucklebuck wrote: »

Did you see According To Pete's owner came out and said he would never run another horse in the National, what a prize prick!

He lapped up the attention, knew the risks, he won £150,000 off the horse decides to throw his horse into a high risk race and then comes out with unhelpful comments when the industry is under fire.

I hope his ****ing paper shop goes bang :mad:

What's the big deal?

Plenty of people have been turned off the National over the years and don't have the same allure to it as others. The gentleman in question will probably never own a horse as good again and it is understandable that he wouldn't want to run another animal in it in future after such unfortunate circumstances. I would never encourage anybody to run their horses in it but that doesn't mean I want the race cancelled.

The industry isn't under fire either, it is the annual scare mongering that the media latch onto at this time of year.

Nulty

Sunnyhillboy - the little horse who jumps badly. What a little ripper!

hucklebuck

Huntley wrote: »

What's the big deal?

Plenty of people have been turned off the National over the years and don't have the same allure to it as others. The gentleman in question will probably never own a horse as good again and it is understandable that he wouldn't want to run another animal in it in future after such unfortunate circumstances. I would never encourage anybody to run their horses in it but that doesn't mean I want the race cancelled.

The industry isn't under fire either, it is the annual scare mongering that the media latch onto at this time of year.

My problem with it is this guy and According To Pete were in every paper in the lead up and the whole thing was being made into a fairytale story and Mr Nelson was more than happy to go along with it all the while knowing the risks of running a horse in a National.

Absolutely, if I had a horse good enough I would not risk him in the National but the people who do and know the risks and I think comments from them like this serve no purpose he could have kept his counsel instead of putting the boot into the sport that gave him plenty of cash. I don't want the race cancelled or changed(save for maybe the canal turn) but that doesn't mean people that do won't use his comments as a stick to beat the sport with.

It has turned into Bambi.

We both know the media who put this guy up as a hero will now write of his agony and how he will never run a horse in such a barbaric race.

Lets not forget all the crap last year and the resulting whip ban ****e that raged on and only got ironed out in February but the ban remains.

Nulty

hucklebuck wrote: »

My problem with it is this guy and According To Pete were in every paper in the lead up and the whole thing was being made into a fairytale story and Mr Nelson was more than happy to go along with it all the while knowing the risks of running a horse in a National.

Absolutely, if I had a horse good enough I would not risk him in the National but the people who do and know the risks and I think comments from them like this serve no purpose he could have kept his counsel instead of putting the boot into the sport that gave him plenty of cash. I don't want the race cancelled or changed(save for maybe the canal turn) but that doesn't mean people that do won't use his comments as a stick to beat the sport with.

It has turned into Bambi.

We both know the media who put this guy up as a hero will now write of his agony and how he will never run a horse in such a barbaric race.

Lets not forget all the crap last year and the resulting whip ban ****e that raged on and only got ironed out in February but the ban remains.

Can you link to the article or source of your discontent?

Huntley

hucklebuck wrote: »

My problem with it is this guy and According To Pete were in every paper in the lead up and the whole thing was being made into a fairytale story and Mr Nelson was more than happy to go along with it all the while knowing the risks of running a horse in a National.

Absolutely, if I had a horse good enough I would not risk him in the National but the people who do and know the risks and I think comments from them like this serve no purpose he could have kept his counsel instead of putting the boot into the sport that gave him plenty of cash. I don't want the race cancelled or changed(save for maybe the canal turn) but that doesn't mean people that do won't use his comments as a stick to beat the sport with.

It has turned into Bambi.

We both know the media who put this guy up as a hero will now write of his agony and how he will never run a horse in such a barbaric race.

Lets not forget all the crap last year and the resulting whip ban ****e that raged on and only got ironed out in February but the ban remains.

You are making much ado about nothing.

Talking about the race, Mr Nelson said: "If he'd have done well we'd have been chuffed for him, but it's a chance you take. You always think it's going to be someone else's horse."

He said he would never enter another horse in the Grand National race.

"No, I wouldn't," he said. "I couldn't go through all the pain again."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17719966

What part of that are you reading that makes you think he is putting the "boot into the sport"? His comments seem totally understandable and reasonable.

Nulty

"After the race we saw the loose horses running in and we were looking for him, but he never came."

That is possibly the saddest thing i've ever heard - at least to do with horse racing

hucklebuck

Sorry about not linking before, overlooked it.

I read this one:

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/896226-grand-national-was-my-last-says-according-to-pete-owner-after-fatal-fall

He added: ‘There is nothing sporting about an event that routinely kills so many horses.’

---

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9650076.Sad_end_of_racing_fairytale/

“I know I’ve had a bad experience, but it’s daft, there are 40 horses running and any of them could be brought down at any time, like According to Pete was.

“You can’t make the jumps easier because it is an international race. But two horses were killed and two more are fighting for their lives.”

---

This for me is just needless and harmful, each article accompanied by stricken horses.

Huntley

hucklebuck wrote: »

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/896226-grand-national-was-my-last-says-according-to-pete-owner-after-fatal-fall

He added: ‘There is nothing sporting about an event that routinely kills so many horses.’

That comment was not from the owner, it was from 'Animal Aid'.

hucklebuck wrote: »

“I know I’ve had a bad experience, but it’s daft, there are 40 horses running and any of them could be brought down at any time, like According to Pete was.

I would agree with this. 40 horses barreling along over 20ft wide fences. It is a spectacle, but absolute madness from a realist point of view. The majority of trainers/owners understand this.

hucklebuck wrote: »

“You can’t make the jumps easier because it is an international race. But two horses were killed and two more are fighting for their lives.”

This was a fact, the industry should not be trying to hide away these aspects of the sport. Horses die on a regular basis, it is educating and informing that should be pursued, not covering up the unfortunate nature of the sport.

hucklebuck wrote: »

This for me is just needless and harmful, each article accompanied by stricken horses.

His comments are pretty innocuous and are not going to damage the sport in the slightest.