VAT in the republic going up, will you shop in the north?

RobitTV

Since vat in the republic is going up to 23% and rip-off ireland will be at it's highest level.

Will you shop in the north more often?

ejmaztec

Not from Kerry I won't, but I'll be buying even more online if they go ahead with this madness. If yet another clueless government wants to shoot themselves in both feet, then it's entirely up to them.

jahalpin

The UK increased their VAT level to 20% a few months ago. An increase of VAT in ROI to 23% would lead to the previous differential (17.5 v 21%) being maintained (0.5% reduction actually)

The supermarkets here are currently offering excellent deals on beer and spirits in the run-up to Christmas and so the cost benefits of going up the North have been greatly reduced.

The cost of petrol has also greatly increased, so the cost of getting to the North has increased greatly.

You also have to remember that you buy items in the U.K. eg electrical or toys etc, the branches of the stores here will normally not handle warranty queries and so you will have to bring the product back up the North if it develops a problem.

rubadub

As always I will determine where the best value is myself, and not con myself by doing bogus calculations to make myself feel like I saved a fortune. Common things people do to fool themselves is omitting travel expenses, and travel time.

I would have to be paid at least triple time to work on weekends, so the savings would have to be massive.

I doubt this tiny increase in VAT will make much of a change to my shopping habits.

Bullseye1

No I'll buy locally. It would take a couple of hours to drive to the North and another couple home. I'm sure it would cost the guts of €30-€40 in car fuel. It's only 5 minutes drive to the local shopping centres. Plus I'm helping support local employment. If it costs me an extra €50 on my Christmas shopping bill so be it.

bugler

It won't send me North (I've never been) but it will make me more likely to buy from Amazon and the like. I will still be charged the new VAT rate of course, but the savings will be of increased importance.

Skopzz

jahalpin wrote: »

The cost of petrol has also greatly increased, so the cost of getting to the North has increased greatly.

Gasoline is not much higher compared with this time last year. It's also off its peak price since the spring of 2011.

Skopzz

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No I'll buy locally. It would take a couple of hours to drive to the North and another couple home. I'm sure it would cost the guts of €30-€40 in car fuel. It's only 5 minutes drive to the local shopping centres. Plus I'm helping support local employment. If it costs me an extra €50 on my Christmas shopping bill so be it.

But that is a FALSE ECONOMY shopping local. It does not address the issue of uncompetitive prices, it just kicks the can down the road. Shopping local is also a form of protectionism.

I don't care where something is made as long as it's cheap. That's the economic circle of life.

Bullseye1

Cheap does not mean quality. Maybe if I had six or seven kids I'd feel differently. If the Euro gained substantially against the Pound I could understand but on an average shopping week say €150-200 your not looking at huge savings, unless of course the government brought in VAT on groceries.

Nanazolie

I'll try my best to shop local. I might have to adjust my shopping habits, but in the long run, if the VAT increase causes smaller shop owners to close, there will be less money in the government's coffers and I, the tax payer, will be paying even more to bail Ireland out. In shopping locally, as best as I can, I insure that the economy recovers and my own job is protected.

Sure, there are things that drive me mad, like adult's clothes and some medications being charged at the higher rate. And that Noonan can deem them "luxury items that poorer people don't tend to buy". So that's it, go naked and eat white bread, you won't suffer the burden of the VAT increase. :mad:

borderlinemeath

I've noticed a trend with posters in this and other threads of the same subject - since I joined boards and definately for the past couple of years I have been encouraging posters to shop local for the benefit of their local economy, to boost the tax intake of the country (and by the same token not the UKs coffers) and to maintain and keep businesses and people in jobs.

For the most part my efforts fell on deaf ears, bar a few regular posters who can also see that the way forward is for the country to pull together and dig ourselves out of the shiit pit that we're in. A lot of posters were completely blinkered in their outlook, didn't give a damn once they got their cheap slab of beer and conned themselves into thinking that they had saved a few euro without even a thought for currency conversions/fuel costs/time costs and the psychological splurge that seemed to kick in once they got to the mecca that was Northern Ireland and caused them to buy far more than they would ever need. The fact that they had spent more than they ever needed to was justified by the fact that they thought they SAVED money by doing this:rolleyes:

I'm so happy to see so many posters (here and elsewhere) saying that they will shop locally and do their best to boost their local economy and to try and keep people in jobs and businesses running. So many people are far less gullible now to believe that there are huge savings to be made and are also showing a civic responsibility that was notably absent in the past couple of years.

There's no chance of me going north or even buying online. I have bought books from amazon this year though - older books that were out of print and unavailable to me locally.

Skopzz

You must open up and stop being rigid about the issue of "quality". Big brand names are not what quality means...

Skopzz

Nanazolie wrote: »

I'll try my best to shop local. I might have to adjust my shopping habits, but in the long run, if the VAT increase causes smaller shop owners to close, there will be less money in the government's coffers and I, the tax payer, will be paying even more to bail Ireland out. In shopping locally, as best as I can, I insure that the economy recovers and my own job is protected.

Sure, there are things that drive me mad, like adult's clothes and some medications being charged at the higher rate. And that Noonan can deem them "luxury items that poorer people don't tend to buy". So that's it, go naked and eat white bread, you won't suffer the burden of the VAT increase. :mad:

Shopping local is as silly as being happy to part your hard earned cash with some rip-off retailer. It does not address the issue of predatory prices but rather feeds them. I will shop wherever it's cheaper because that promotes competition and thus stimulates economic growth. Shopping local is not the answer. I will shop up north if retailers continue to be greedy. Let them suffer away.

borderlinemeath

Skopzz wrote: »

Shopping local is as silly as being happy to part your hard earned cash with some rip-off retailer. It does not address the issue of predatory prices but rather feeds them. I will shop wherever it's cheaper because that promotes competition and thus stimulates economic growth. Shopping local is not the answer. I will shop up north if retailers continue to be greedy. Let them suffer away.

You are still seriously beating that same drum? The amount of venom in your posts towards, it seems, every retailer south of the border is getting tiresome at this stage.

Next thing you'll be giving out currency advice again:rolleyes:

Nanazolie

Skopzz wrote: »

Shopping local is as silly as being happy to part your hard earned cash with some rip-off retailer. It does not address the issue of predatory prices but rather feeds them. I will shop wherever it's cheaper because that promotes competition and thus stimulates economic growth. Shopping local is not the answer. I will shop up north if retailers continue to be greedy. Let them suffer away.

Unlike giant retailers like Tesco and M&S which can increase and decrease their margins and basically dictate the prices here, the smaller retailers barely break even. Most have already been brought to their knees by higher taxes, and shoppers frantic search for value.
If you shop wherever is cheaper, by all means go and shop in China or Pakistan, you'll find excellent deals there. Just remember to close your eyes on the condition people live in there
How on earth can you believe than spending your money in another country will promote competition? Are you expecting shopkeepers to work for free? Or should they get rid of their employees and thus create more unemployment? You are being naive if you think that small retailers make indecent amounts of money on your back, they are not. Open your eyes and see how many shops have closed lately, some town centres are virtually dead, and it's only supermarkets now.

I'm not talking about posh shops selling a coffee cup for 30 euros or Christmas baubbles in Swartkowsky cristal. I'm talking about the local fruits and vegs shop, the butcher, the shop that sells clothes that are not "designers", the off licence. Our local pharmacy closed a year ago because they couldn't open 7 days a week to compete with bigger stores, keeping employees and making enough profit to pay the rent. They are sorely missed, and people who went further to get "better value" now suffer as much as the others when they need a prescription and the nearest chemist is a 15mn drive

keithclancy

While I live in NL its the same jazz here with Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.

But in all honestly, any high priced stuff i'll buy online but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy every day stuff over the border, even though there is a fairly big price difference for some items.

I mean, if I was getting Kerrygold in a Local Supermarket in Duesseldorf, I MIGHT pickup a crate of beer, but then you have to return the damn crate to get the refund.

IMO ... A VAT Increase only puts pressure on the retailer not the Consumer.

Its not just the Fuel either, its the Wear and Tear and the whole hassle of if something goes wrong you may have to go back there just to sort out your refund.

Fishtits

My OH is from the "North" so we're regular visiters. We shop on occaisions, it tends to be more focussed on the stuff she can't get down here.

Personally on a "principle" level I don't care less. If I can save money I'll do it.

The F*ckwits that got us into this mess are sitting pretty on massive pensions. Bertie the Boll*cks et al...

I'm tight to pay the bills. Its survival at this stage and I'll do whatever I have to. Apologies to no-one.

Macy0161

RobitTV wrote: »

Since vat in the republic is going up to 23% and rip-off ireland will be at it's highest level.

Will you shop in the north more often?

Do you mean as a protest, or for actual savings? If it's the former, go ahead and potentially cut off your nose...

For savings of going North, compared to a few years ago when St Brian put up our VAT rate, and people flocked to Newry...

• the exchange rate isn't nearly as favourable as it was the last time (it was nearly stg£ for euro, and the shops were offering it)
• the VAT differential isn't as much as it was at that time (there was 5.5% of a difference), and doesn't apply to a lot of the weekly shop anyway
• fuel is significantly more expensive now

The only thing you can do is shop around, both within Ireland and with people that'll deliver to Ireland. Gotta say, the christmas shopping this year suggests there's not that great a savings going outside (and that's with having people coming home, so not even taking into account delivery).

If you want to support Irish retailers, you're better off going to independents rather than the multiples such as Tesco, where (leaks suggest) they take a significantly higher margin out of Ireland.

Buying electricals online or cross border is all very well until something goes wrong. I have done, and probably will do again, but I have had the less than positive experience of trying to sort a problem which does make me more reluctant now and ups the necessary price differential.

Bobbity

Definately wont be going up north, what is the point of handing over your hard earned cash to the north, keep it local and support Irish Businesses and jobs.
Shopping in Tesco, another big NO. They are leeches and are killing our towns across the country. They are hammering the farmers, many of whom are hanging in by their teeth, killing off small local retailers, a lot who have already gone, a lot more to go.....think on before you go north.:mad:
We have our own Irish Owned supermarkets, so why not support them.
Supervalu, Superquinn, Dunnes, Centra.........their prices are just as keen as Tesco and money in coming back into the Irish Economy, instead of going to Britain.

bcirl03

I'll go wherever it's the cheapest - dont care if it's local, up North or on the Internet.

If you want my business who ever is the cheapest has it.

ThisRegard

Bobbity wrote: »

Shopping in Tesco, another big NO. They are leeches and are killing our towns across the country. They are hammering the farmers, many of whom are hanging in by their teeth, killing off small local retailers, a lot who have already gone, a lot more to go.....think on before you go north.:mad:
We have our own Irish Owned supermarkets, so why not support them.
Supervalu, Superquinn, Dunnes, Centra.........their prices are just as keen as Tesco and money in coming back into the Irish Economy, instead of going to Britain.

Tesco Ireland is a different entity than Tesco UK. And of course the Irish owned companies are complete angels when it comes to treating suppliers and staff, Dunnes in particular. Profits, of which also aren't published, from Dunnes stay within the family and a select few, whereas in Tesco shareholders, many of which are employees, benefit. These rubbish it trotted out regularly without people who post it actually checking the facts.

grumpymunster

Will wait and see what actual impact it is likely to have before deciding. Would normally support local butcher as meat quality is excellent other than that no real ties. I would tend to prefer Aldi & Lidl to Tesco & Dunnes both for price and quality.

If I decide to go North it will be a once in a quarter trip to stock up on non perisables mainly. Time does not enter the equation for me its a grand day out with she who must be obeyed.

Tazz T

The 3% mightn't seem like a lot but if minimum pricing on alcohol or a big hit on excise duty comes in, the difference in the price of alcohol will be massive. I already buy a lot up north where you can get 2 x 24 cases of 5% beer for £20. That's half the price it here at the moment and could be a 1/3 of the price after the budget.

Government hasn't a clue, by raising VAT and excise they will simply lower the amount of VAT and excise revenue in through cross border shopping. They should have raised income tax. They broke every other electoral promise why not that one.:rolleyes:

hairyfoot

I don't understand this attitude of 'we don't want to contribute to the local economy'. Yes, some items are more expensive locally, but they also have higher overheads (including higher VAT, higher minimum wage and higher rent). And even if it is more expensive, as others have mentioned is a couple of % here and there worth the hassle of going North (obviously that depends on how close you are to the border and how tight your household budget is).

I know people are disillusioned with the Government, and I'm not going to pretent I agree things that have happened, but how is Ireland going to recover if we all avoid taxes (through not paying VAT locally)? How is supporting the UK economy over Ireland worth saving a few €€?

All of that said, I have tried not to shop in the North, but am starting to be lured by the convenience of online shopping, and frustrated with the lack of Irish options (or when there is an online store the poor quality of the website). I don't want to go completely off topic from the OP, but if I *want* to continue to spend local, and can't find the variety I need in the physical store, how can I continue to support Irish retailers?

Le_Dieux

Skopzz wrote: »

Gasoline is not much higher compared with this time last year. It's also off its peak price since the spring of 2011.

I'm not saying you are right/wrong, but please provide a link on prices - I am assuming you are talking about fuel prices at the pump?

I don't ever recall retail prices this high, and thats before noonan gets his hands on the extra charges he has coing down the (pardon the pun) pipeline.

Skopzz

Let's ignore the greedy local retailers and head up north folks. I'm going to Asda next week for my christmas shopping and I do not care about insignificant retailers down here who'll screw me out of money.

davo10

Skopzz wrote: »

Let's ignore the greedy local retailers and head up north folks. I'm going to Asda next week for my christmas shopping and I do not care about insignificant retailers down here who'll screw me out of money.

This is the same guy folks who you and I are supporting in college and welfare payments, who cannot turn up on time for his payments yet vilifies welfare staff for inefficiencies, flies to the continent at least once a month yet does not work, offers ludicrous currency advice, thinks all Northern businesses and business people are sectarian bigots who are "not to be trusted" and do us southerners down "as evidenced by the .co.uk" on their websites (I know, another poster pointed out that many nationalists in the North also have websites which end in .co.uk).

Those "insignificant retailers" are the lifeblood of our economy, they offer goods and services, not everyone can drive a couple of hours up the road to do their shopping, employment, meeting places, and the taxes which allow you a subsidised education (in the North as of next year you would have to pay £9k per year in University), so stop knocking the employers and the working man and woman. You seem to want to take as much as you can yet contribute nothing to society.

Macy0161

Midweek or whatever it was did a comparison yesterday, and I think the saving came to €3 or something. That was before fuel costs. I didn't see the start to see the trolley, but it included food, drink, baby products and toys from what I heard.

VAT won't change the figures much - it's all about the exchange rate.

borderlinemeath

Skopzz wrote: »

Let's ignore the greedy local retailers and head up north folks. I'm going to Asda next week for my christmas shopping and I do not care about insignificant retailers down here who'll screw me out of money.

Every so often there's talk of schemes whereby the recipient of social welfare has to spend all their money within the country by means of vouchers or a swipe card.

Normally when I think about it, it would be a step too far, heading back to the days of butter vouchers. However, in your case, it would be just right. It might shift your anger from the retailers towards the government. I doubt very much you would be as vocal as to bite the hand that feeds you so to speak.

Skopzz

davo10 wrote: »

This is the same guy folks who you and I are supporting in college and welfare payments, who cannot turn up on time for his payments yet vilifies welfare staff for inefficiencies, flies to the continent at least once a month yet does not work, offers ludicrous currency advice, thinks all Northern businesses and business people are sectarian bigots who are "not to be trusted" and do us southerners down "as evidenced by the .co.uk" on their websites (I know, another poster pointed out that many nationalists in the North also have websites which end in .co.uk).

Those "insignificant retailers" are the lifeblood of our economy, they offer goods and services, not everyone can drive a couple of hours up the road to do their shopping, employment, meeting places, and the taxes which allow you a subsidised education (in the North as of next year you would have to pay £9k per year in University), so stop knocking the employers and the working man and woman. You seem to want to take as much as you can yet contribute nothing to society.

No plans to visit the crack pipe in my immediate future... I will be able to shop where I want while suckers like you are counting your losses.