Waterford retailers are going to be hit very hard, vat rise in budget.

RobitTV

The decision to drive the VAT rate up to 23 per cent will not generate the €670m in extra revenue the Government is hoping it will.

And retailers say that the Government's 'suicidal' decision will close businesses across the country.

When the VAT rate comes into service waterford will be a ghost town and retailers will go bust. People can't afford to spend more.

This is a stupid decision, this is the final blow.

Where will you be shopping this christmas? waterford or on the internet?

ziedth

Madness, Retail sector is on it's knees as it is. I cant understand the logic. personally, I have been looking into starting my own business this last year but I'm definitely holding off now to see how it all looks in six months.

RobitTV

ziedth wrote: »

Madness, Retail sector is on it's knees as it is. I cant understand the logic. personally, I have been looking into starting my own business this last year but I'm definitely holding off now to see how it all looks in six months.

I Agree, it's actually the most stupidest thing iv'e heard all year.

There's no logic at all, they won't make savings they will make losses because of Northern ireland and to the south nearby wales and plus the internet.

They done this in 2008 and they made 700M in losses to northern ireland, you think by now they would of understood putting up VAT was a catastrophic idea.

I feel sorry for waterford retailers, thanks to the goverment their day's are numbered.

Inflation and cost of living will now fly up like a space rocket, the goverment has made a catastrophic choice.

dayshah

I think its a stupid decision to raise VAT, I'd much prefer raise income tax or capital gains tax.

But I'm curious who will pass it on, and compare it to who reduced prices during the summer when VAT was reduced on some things.

Not The Real Scarecrow

Poor decision alright, can't for the life of me fathom it. Sure, it looks like the easiest option and if you lack vision it can seem like an easy way to generate more revenue. But in the long term it will impact on every section of society, can't see it doing much either to encourage foreign investment into a country that will have the highest rate of VAT in europe. I'm not gonna get into party bashing cause in my opinion all politicians are the same, out for them selves under educated idiots , doing jobs they have absolutely no or little qualifications for.This has lead them to be easily lead by the big boys of europe down a path that has ruined the country and now the new crowd seem intent to put the final nails in the coffin.
On a side note as well, if governmental information was leaked to another country in any other country other than Ireland the government of the day would be forced out for treason. I think it shows where their loyalty is.Obviously not with the Irish people but with a foreign body.

abouttobebanned

Well for one you can say goodbye to all the cheap drink deals in the pubs. They'll creep up in the shopping centres and off licences as well.

We're now entering into an economic scenario that will see us sharing the same high cost of living as somewhere like Norway, only without their high incomes.

I was listening to a FG politician on the last word last week and he vehemently denied that any aspect of the budget had been finalised. He catagorically denied that a leak had occurred. We were spoon fed lies similar to the ones about the IMF.

Waterford is going to suffer badly because we're a few steps behind the rest of the country now in almost every way. The parking situation, btw, is laughable. But that's another story.

There are people who are now dedicating themselves to positivity about Waterford. #welovewaterford is one such idea. I'm mad for it. Love positivity. But not at the expense of realism. People are just burying their heads in the sand.

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

I think its a stupid decision to raise VAT, I'd much prefer raise income tax or capital gains tax.

But I'm curious who will pass it on, and compare it to who reduced prices during the summer when VAT was reduced on some things.

We don't have a tax problem in this country. We have a spending (public) problem.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

We don't have a tax problem in this country. We have a spending (public) problem.

That's great Finnbar.

If anything is going to get us out of this mess, it's one line slogans.

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

That's great Finnbar.

If anything is going to get us out of this mess, it's one line slogans.

It's the truth though.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

It's the truth though.

No, seriously, that's great work from you; keep it up.

Here I was thinking that to get out of this hole we are in me needed serious policy analysis. You know, the sort of thing like regressive nature of direct taxation, marginal propensity to consume of different income groups, effects on demand, effects on inflation, to what extent the decrease in spending caused by an increase in VAT would reduce the total tax take; you know complicated stuff like that.

But then you've clearly shown a one line response is all we need.

Brilliant.

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

No, seriously, that's great work from you; keep it up.

Here I was thinking that to get out of this hole we are in me needed serious policy analysis. You know, the sort of thing like regressive nature of direct taxation, marginal propensity to consume of different income groups, effects on demand, effects on inflation, to what extent the decrease in spending caused by an increase in VAT would reduce the total tax take; you know complicated stuff like that.

But then you've clearly shown a one line response is all we need.

Brilliant.

We need to start living with in our means. Nothing complicated about that at all. We have a public spending problem in this country.

Please do try and keep up.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

We need to start living with in our means. Nothing complicated about that at all. We have a public spending problem in this country.

Please do try and keep up.

Oh, its just so difficult for me to keep up with these nuggets of wisdom from you.

I just have a habit of complicating the issues. I sometimes even resort to facts, such as the fact that even cutting the public pay bill to zero would not close the deficit. I sometimes waste my time by looking at the opinions of respected economists, rather than trash from the Sunday Independent. Yes, informing myself and basing my views in reality is probably one of my biggest failings.

The real world is ever so complicated. But you Finnbar, you know where its at.

Ignore reality, and simplicity is beautiful.

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

Oh, its just so difficult for me to keep up with these nuggets of wisdom from you.

I just have a habit of complicating the issues. I sometimes even resort to facts, such as the fact that even cutting the public pay bill to zero would not close the deficit. I sometimes waste my time by looking at the opinions of respected economists, rather than trash from the Sunday Independent. Yes, informing myself and basing my views in reality is probably one of my biggest failings.

The real world is ever so complicated. But you Finnbar, you know where its at.

Ignore reality, and simplicity is beautiful.

Respected economists? You're having a laugh. And where did I post that I wanted to see public sector pay cuts?

Instead of reading 'respected economists' (snigger). I would suggest that you should improve your comprehension skills.

mike65

Waterford is at least a long way from the border so its protected to a degree.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Respected economists? You're having a laugh. And where did I post that I wanted to see public sector pay cuts?

Instead of reading 'respected economists' (snigger). I would suggest that you should improve your comprehension skills.

Thanks for the tips on furthering my education.

When you said Ireland has a public spending problem I (foolishly) thought you might want to cut that spending. I thought maybe you'd like to reduce the public sector paybill, close some hospitals or have some clear policy alternative to a tax increase. Silly me. Who needs alternatives when one-line slogans are so much better. If gives your opinion a gravitas that is so much better than the people saying 'replace capitalism with something nice'.

Of course its silly to think some economists are respected its so much easier and more efficient to stereotype an entire profession, especially when that profession is playing a major role in policy formation right now.

I've wasted so much time trying to educate myself as to the problems the country faces, when all I needed to do was improve my English comprehension, and read one-line critiques of government policy.

That's for the tips.

abouttobebanned

Dayshah you're getting as bad as me for the smartarseishness

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

Thanks for the tips on furthering my education.

Never to late to start.

When you said Ireland has a public spending problem I (foolishly) thought you might want to cut that spending. I thought maybe you'd like to reduce the public sector paybill, close some hospitals or have some clear policy alternative to a tax increase.

Let's start living within our means, aye?

Silly me. Who needs alternatives when one-line slogans are so much better. If gives your opinion a gravitas that is so much better than the people saying 'replace capitalism with something nice'.

Don't worry about it and capitalism can never be replaced. It is a natural form of the human condition.

Of course its silly to think some economists are respected its so much easier and more efficient to stereotype an entire profession, especially when that profession is playing a major role in policy formation right now.

Yes, the respecters of the dismal science are in charge... fills me with confidence.

I've wasted so much time trying to educate myself as to the problems the country faces, when all I needed to do was improve my English comprehension, and read one-line critiques of government policy.

Maybe you've been looking in the wrong place?

That's for the tips.

You're welcome.

dayshah

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Dayshah you're getting as bad as me for the smartarseishness

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Let's start living within our means, aye?

And one way is to increase tax.

Finnbar01

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Dayshah you're getting as bad as me for the smartarseishness

I think you meant stupidity?

Lols.

ex_infantry man

the government should be lowering the vat rate to encourage spending this will thus increase tax take and keep people in the retail sector in employment!!! whoever came up with the idea of increasing the vat rate by 2% should be strung up by the balls and used as a pinyata but using hurleys to beat him or her with

RobitTV

This is going to make retailers in waterford crumble, such a shame.

tunedout

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I think you meant stupidity?

Lols.

Hi finbar it appears to me you are the stupidity lols having read above.

Lols.

i think you should government the vat from now on

RobitTV

And i heard the Ferrybank shopping center is opening in april :eek:

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/mhgbaugboj/

Such a waste now at this point, no one will buy anything due to the VAT rise and this will only become a big and utter waste.

Shame really

thomasm

ex_infantry man wrote: »

the government should be lowering the vat rate to encourage spending this will thus increase tax take and keep people in the retail sector in employment!!! whoever came up with the idea of increasing the vat rate by 2% should be strung up by the balls and used as a pinyata but using hurleys to beat him or her with

Is the point not that no one in this govt came up with the 2% VAT rise and they are merely messengers boys for the IMF, EU, ABC and whoever else had us by the nuts and they decided on this.

LLU

why is this in the Waterford forum? Are other retailers not going to get affected besides Waterford ones? Is the VAT increase only in Waterford?

RobitTV

The Goverment should be trying to boost consumer confidence and get people spending in their local economies.

1. Reduce VAT for a short-period of 6-8 months to try and help families with their weekly shopping bill's and maybe try and boost their confidence and they may by the odd thing they wouldn't buy.
--
2. - Reduce Fuel VAT and try and get people on the road again and cut family bill's, that will help families abit.
--
3. Try and encourage retailers to do more special offers over a 6-8 month period.
-
4. Goverment should do everything possible to help struggling retailers and families.

dayshah

thomasm wrote: »

Is the point not that no one in this govt came up with the 2% VAT rise and they are merely messengers boys for the IMF, EU, ABC and whoever else had us by the nuts and they decided on this.

All the IMF are saying is they want stability and the money back. They don't particularly care if its through dole cuts, vat increase, or increase in inheritance tax etc.

The government like to say its the IMF so as not to get the bad publicity.

Finnbar01

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I think you meant stupidity?

Lols.

Just received an infraction for this... Lols!

ziedth

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Just received an infraction for this... Lols!

Enough,!!!!

Keep it on topic from here lads. Anymore bitching or posts that aren't on topic and it's a week off. Cheers!

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

All the IMF are saying is they want stability and the money back. They don't particularly care if its through dole cuts, vat increase, or increase in inheritance tax etc.

The government like to say its the IMF so as not to get the bad publicity.

How would you sort out this mess? Tax increases all the way?

ex_infantry man

its goin to be the death of our economy!!!!!

decies

mike65 wrote: »

Waterford is at least a long way from the border so its protected to a degree.

Not really mike my god if there was medals handed out to Waterford people for not supporting their own we would be on the podium for a medal!!!!

merlante

decies wrote: »

Not really mike my god if there was medals handed out to Waterford people for not supporting their own we would be on the podium for a medal!!!!

Too right, JJ Kavanagh will be doing direct buses to Newry and they'll all be full. The main entertainment will actually be the 6 hours on a coach bitching about how bad the shopping is in Waterford.

dayshah

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Well for one you can say goodbye to all the cheap drink deals in the pubs. They'll creep up in the shopping centres and off licences as well.

In fairness, 2% on €2 would only bring it to €2.04; but if they increase VAT I'd be very surprised they don't raise excise duty and so on too. Still, €2.50 could become the new bottom, rather than €2, which is still fairly cheap.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

How would you sort out this mess? Tax increases all the way?

Mainly. There are to be some saving from Croke Park, but mainly tax increases, and government investment in infrastructure.

That said, I wouldn't increase VAT.

daenerysstormborn3

LLU wrote: »

why is this in the Waterford forum? Are other retailers not going to get affected besides Waterford ones? Is the VAT increase only in Waterford?

Because this is the Waterford forum and Waterford people are discussing the effect the increased VAT rate will have on an already seriously suffering part of the country.

I'd say the Ferrybank Shopping Centre could get put on the long finger again because of this.

As another poster has said, the only positive thing is that Waterford is so far from the border.

This is going to be a disaster for the town.

WLR was on in the car earlier and there was an ad (I'd say it's a campaign they're running at the moment) from a local person employed within the town encouraging people to shop locally. As much as I'd love to I do not make enough money to do all my shopping locally.

kryogen

At the turning on of the christmas lights our wonderful mayor urged us all to be selfish this year and do all our shopping in waterford..... Gonna be plenty of that from now till the new year.....

Odats

Budgets are tight and people will go where the cheapest price is. Supporting your own within reason is logical but no one will be put up with being ripped off.

The governments hands are tied with the ECB and IMF and unfortunately this budget is being dictated from Brussels not Leinster house and they are looking for the quickest return.

wmpdd3

It is a blessing that we are so far away from the border. You have to add €60 for petrol onto any trip to Newry etc. But it will hit chains that also trade in NI.

There's already rumored uncertainty about the large supermarkets in Dundalk and Donegal, I could see closures there. Last time these store were under threat, a major chain reduced their prices and sourced their products in GB, this wont be happening again, they'll just close.

Sully

Well, I think its safe to say that while this is old news - I am stunned that the hike isn't gradual and is being hiked up with very little warning. This was agreed under Fianna Fail, but was supposed to be spread out over the next few years. I actually forgot about it until it raised its head in the past few days. Perhaps the government and their advisers have a better outlook on things, but I cant see it working.

Yes, we spend a lot of money. I think its being curtailed and slowed down, big time, with the recession. But is now the right time to hike up consumer prices on product when consumers have **** all money? This idea might work if had a lot of money and a hike wouldn't hit our pockets that hard, but enough to slow us down.

Our wage packet and take home pay, minus our expenses, is very little. Hiking up prices will hamper businesses, who will either have to drop the price or absorb it if they are to try keep afloat. That alone will lead to cutting jobs to make up the saving. Then, if with all these cuts in the budget and the VAT hike will further empty our pockets - it means us consumers wont have enough money to spread around. That could then end up having a direct impact on businesses again, who will see consumer spending down and will have to cut staff back.

I don't understand why it has to be hiked up so sharply and at such a bad time. Its not making any sense. I'm not comfortable with it going up at all, prices in Ireland are far to high as it is and this just makes it worse.

Remember when the previous government increased VAT, and they lost a huge amount of money? Oddly, they decided to still implement it as part of the plan with the EU/IMF and even more oddly, Fine Gael and Labour are implementing it even quicker when there seems to be room to move on it. The EU/IMF seem to be flexible, as long as the figures are met.

Psychedelic

I think the VAT rate was due to be increased by 1% in 2013 and another 1% in 2014 as part of the EU/IMF bailout terms. I assume the government are doing it all in one go now to try raise money as part of their €3.5bn cuts instead of raising that money through other cuts/taxes.

And by doing the 2% increase in 2012 and assuming they hold that rate for the following 2 years then they are going to be taking out a lot more out of the economy than if they increased it by 1% in 2013 and 2014.

wellboytoo

You think this is bad, I remember when the high rate of VAT was 35%!!! the black economy was rampant, maybe we should have an historian setting the budget , if you know where you are coming from you may be able to plan the future?

alphasounds

This is putting really the breaks on, i get dizzy thinking about it.
Free market ? I would like to know is the real point just greed of a few,
or something a bit more intelligent behind this Orchestration of pressure.
How about a levy for over 100k state pensioners ?

old gregg

happy to shop local regardless of vat rate, happy also to boycott the local shops that treated the good times as an opportunity to rob the locals.

Smiley Burnett

dayshah wrote: »

I think its a stupid decision to raise VAT, I'd much prefer raise income tax or capital gains tax.

But I'm curious who will pass it on, and compare it to who reduced prices during the summer when VAT was reduced on some things.

You want income tax rises???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did that work for us in the 1980's???