GAA Infastructure

munchkin_utd

roadmaster wrote: »

Time to go back to planning so .The Government cant be taking swipes at the GAA over facilitates when they are building grounds that the GAA cant use

After the proclamations over the week that building facilities which are only used by one major sport is a waste of taxpayers money, that would be the logical conclusion.

KrustyUCC

Yes but will the government actually follow through on that?

Doubtful

namloc1980

roadmaster wrote: »

Time to go back to planning so .The Government cant be taking swipes at the GAA over facilitates when they are building grounds that the GAA cant use

Clearly the GAA need to change their playing field dimensions. Problem sorted.

KrustyUCC

Clearly other stadia need to build bigger pitches to accomodate at least a minimum size GAA pitch seeing as funding "Grants must be used to benefit all the community". Problem sorted

namloc1980

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Clearly other stadia need to build bigger pitches to accomodate at least a minimum size GAA pitch seeing as funding "Grants must be used to benefit all the community". Problem sorted

Where do you think Dalymount Park is going to get the space for a GAA pitch from?

salmocab

Think this might be all getting a bit childish now lads.

Pete_Cavan

This multi sports thing is nonsense. Why would GAA grounds have to be available for other sports who have no interest in using them because (a) they wouldn't fill 10% of the stadium and (b) the fans will be 20m from the pitch? No LOI or pro rugby club is interested in sharing a stadium with GAA, the pitches aren't compatible and the negatives of sharing outweigh the positives.

GAA pitches can and are used for multiple sports anyway: football, hurling and rounders. GAA isn't a sport as some seem to think, it is an organisation which administers multiple sports (the clue is in the name).

Where do we draw the line with this multi use anyway, should all grounds now have a long jump pit on the sideline, a putting green on the 45? All sports want to develop the best facilities for their needs, not design around the needs of others. Of course share facilities where it makes sense but don't compromise facilities out of some warped sense of fairness.

No surprise to see the Minister for Stepaside Garda Station involved here. The only time he is interested in his ministerial portfolio is when there is a populist bandwagon to be jumped on and he can (hypocritically) whine about wasting tax payers more. How many other sports have used Wesley hockey pitch Shane?

TheRiverman

roadmaster wrote: »

If the government are so eager to ensure all sports get access to stadiums, will they stipulate that the likes of the RDS and Dalymount pitches will have to be big enough to play Hurling and football?

I wonder what's the story the RDS.I remember reading about two years ago that there was a plan to revamp the main arena,building a new stand in place of that awful Anglesea one etc.

KrustyUCC

namloc1980 wrote: »

Where do you think Dalymount Park is going to get the space for a GAA pitch from?

According to Lord Ross "Grants must be used to benefit all the community" from now on

I have no issue with Dalymount getting grants nor Wesley College getting grants for a hockey pitch but I do have an issue with supposedly all future GAA grants being subject to different criteria just because a GAA picth could accomodate other field sports when other sports won't be made accomodate GAA games

Lord Ross has dug a hole for himself here as he used the Miller Game to have a specific dig at the GAA without thinking of the consequences of his words

salmocab

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This multi sports thing is nonsense. Why would GAA grounds have to be available for other sports who have no interest in using them because (a) they wouldn't fill 10% of the stadium and (b) the fans will be 20m from the pitch? No LOI or pro rugby club is interested in sharing a stadium with GAA, the pitches aren't compatible and the negatives of sharing outweigh the positives.

GAA pitches can and are used for multiple sports anyway: football, hurling and rounders. GAA isn't a sport as some seem to think, it is an organisation which administers multiple sports (the clue is in the name).

Where do we draw the line with this multi use anyway, should all grounds now have a long jump pit on the sideline, a putting green on the 45? All sports want to develop the best facilities for their needs, not design around the needs of others. Of course share facilities where it makes sense but don't compromise facilities out of some warped sense of fairness.

No surprise to see the Minister for Stepaside Garda Station involved here. The only time he is interested in his ministerial portfolio is when there is a populist bandwagon to be jumped on and he can (hypocritically) whine about wasting tax payers more. How many other sports have used Wesley hockey pitch Shane?

I very much agree with this although I have trained for rugby on Wesley’s hockey pitches in very bad weather as they are available to rent, plenty of soccer teams use them too.

salmocab

TheRiverman wrote: »

I wonder what's the story the RDS.I remember reading about two years ago that there was a plan to revamp the main arena,building a new stand in place of that awful Anglesea one etc.

That’s still on the cards but it’s complicated as RDS only rent to Leinster.

kksaints

salmocab wrote: »

That’s still on the cards but it’s complicated as RDS only rent to Leinster.

The RDS used to rent out their pitch to LOI clubs for European matches and to the FAI for the cup final before Tallaght Stadium was completed. I remember watching St Pats against Hertha Berlin in 2008 and Steaua Bucharest in 2009.

Regards Dalymount that will be DCC owned so along with Bohs and Shelbourne will probably be available for other sports including juvenile GAA like Tallaght Stadium.

Pete_Cavan

salmocab wrote: »

I very much agree with this although I have trained for rugby on Wesley’s hockey pitches in very bad weather as they are available to rent, plenty of soccer teams use them too.

I am not familiar with the set up there but I would think you played on general all weather pitches rather than the hockey pitch which received the grant

salmocab

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I am not familiar with the set up there but I would think you played on general all weather pitches rather than the hockey pitch which received the grant

Well it was one of their hockey pitches the one they received the grant for was only recent but my point was their pitches are for hire for other sports.

smelly sock

namloc1980 wrote: »

Where do you think Dalymount Park is going to get the space for a GAA pitch from?

Thats not the gaa's problem though. Dalymount shouldnt get one penny if it cant hold gaa matches.

Bonniedog

KrustyUCC wrote: »

According to Lord Ross "Grants must be used to benefit all the community" from now on

I have no issue with Dalymount getting grants nor Wesley College getting grants for a hockey pitch but I do have an issue with supposedly all future GAA grants being subject to different criteria just because a GAA picth could accomodate other field sports when other sports won't be made accomodate GAA games

Lord Ross has dug a hole for himself here as he used the Miller Game to have a specific dig at the GAA without thinking of the consequences of his words

You under-estimate the hatred that some people have for the GAA.

namloc1980

smelly sock wrote: »

Thats not the gaa's problem though. Dalymount shouldnt get one penny if it cant hold gaa matches.

And the GAA shouldn't get one penny until it gets rid of its rules on foreign games. Government will save a fortune by not giving a penny to anyone.

salmocab

Ah lads where does this nonsense end? Should every stadium be big enough to hold test cricket?
I have no issue with the GAA only using their own stadiums as they see fit, couldn’t care about grants. The like of Tallaght stadium is available for rent and other sports have been played there. There is a difference between stadiums being open to other sports and stadiums having pitches that suit other sports and this is just silly talk now because Ross stuck his oar in.

KrustyUCC

Yes in general just silly talk but that's the conclusion that "Grants must be used to benefit all the community" from now on

Ross has dug a hole for himself

Lots of people has reacted with glee in the fact that from now on if a GAA clubs will apply for funding "Grants must be used to benefit all the community"

Our club are currently coming up with a plan to redevelop a pitch that hosts GAA, Camogie and Ladies Football

The chairman of the soccer club stated loudly in the pub that sure if the GAA get funding they will have to allow us to use the pitch

A nearby rugby club also are doing redeveopments yet the soccer club won't be asking for use of their new facilities

Carawaystick

salmocab wrote: »

Ah lads where does this nonsense end? Should every stadium be big enough to hold test cricket?

Every golf course should be big enough....:D

nice_guy80

Carawaystick wrote: »

Every golf course should be big enough....:D

Not when they can refuse membership

purplepanda

With all the recent discussions regarding GAA grounds & different field sports using the same stadia I quickly looked into how this works in USA & Australia.

It appears that any major GAA new & /or stadium upgrades that receive government / EU / Lottery aid will probably require access for the paupers of the FAI. I'm assuming that the later organisation is incapable of building any serious new stadium on it's own , given their total failures in the past decades & their very low contribution of €33million towards Landsdowne /Aviva Stadium.

Although there has been older stadiums traditionally used for all 5 major Aussie sports, Cricket, Australian Football, Rugby League, Rugby Union & Soccer, it appears that most new / modern stadia have now settled for either of the following.

1. Aussie Rules & Cricket, due to the large Oval field used for both.

2. Rugby League / Rugby Union & Soccer. Similar pitch dimensions.

In the USA over the last 25 years large capacity multi use stadiums have not been built. Whilst the Australians have split theirs into more manageable combinations of field sports.

Whilst a Rugby / Football stadium makes very good sense, I still don't see any serious plans put forward on how a combined GAA / Football & / or Rugby ground would be built.

It obviously would have major problems at the field goal ends, I assume there would be extendable seating needed? If this was to happen what about
a stadium that could host major athletics meetings? As soon as you draw up the specification needed you run into further expense & problems.

Wembley Stadium used to hold GAA exibition games in the '60's & 70's, as it had been used for athletics & even greyhound racing but my understanding is that they were actually 13 a side.

There have been recent newspaper reports regarding a South Dublin GAA stadium, could this proposal be further developed as a multi use stadium?

Having seen the Ireland Wales Football game in Croke Park, the atmosphere was lacking compared to Hurling matches I have been too, The smaller dimensions of the playing field didn't help, although the FAI could supposedly (under FIFA rules) have had a larger playing surface than was actually laid out.

It would be helpful if someone could put together a presentation plan of how this could all work. In the meantime I see major problems with the details. The cost of the London Olympic stadium being converted for dual Football & Athletics use was over £300 million, & the supporters have been complaining regarding the low sight angles of the playing field.

Bonniedog

Let's face it. GAA has gotten in the neck over the PUC game. But the elephant in the room is the FAI which gets huge public investment, and huge TV rights, and is partly funded by Dermot Desmond and yet has to beg for grounds, and has a CEO on more money than the President of Ireland, and whose players have to threaten to go on strike for a couple of hundred Euro. And whose kids teams have to sell tickets door to door to get jerseys.

Fair play to them for turning themselves into victims!

blue note

The irfu and fai don't have a need for more large stadia. It would be a disgrace if they built others.

If course, the same could have been said for pairc ui caoimh.

Bonniedog

The IRFU are well able to look after themselves. They have adequate grounds for internationals and Pro 12 and Champions League and pay the wages of their professionals.


FAI is vastly wealthy organisation that seems impervious to scrutiny, as opposed to the "dinosaurs" who get millions of people in the gates and supply tens of thousands of children with hurleys and footballs and jerseys. And provide properly audited accounts and have an open democratic Congress elected by delegates from every county in Ireland. Now. Who doesn't do that?


Perhaps Damien Duff and others are shooting at the wrong door.

Poor_old_gill

The GAA didnt handle the Liam Miller issue very well and thats always been my stance but having sympathy for family and for the FAI are too completely different things.

After the situation has now been resolved- people need to start asking as to how it came to that, why doesnt Irish soccer have adequate stadiums? Even a few that can handle attendances in excess of 10,000.

Why has development of players been, predominantly, left up to English clubs? Why has it taken this long to even have a plan for a regional centre of excellence in Munster?

On top of all these historical issues- it's virtually impossible to have sympathy for an organisation who have Delaney at the helm.
I still love that great stat from Euro 2012- the final was between Italy and Spain- John Delaney earned more than the combined salaries of the Italian & Spanish FA chief executives.

CrabRevolution

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

The GAA didnt handle the Liam Miller issue very well and thats always been my stance but having sympathy for family and for the FAI are too completely different things.

After the situation has now been resolved- people need to start asking as to how it came to that, why doesnt Irish soccer have adequate stadiums? Even a few that can handle attendances in excess of 10,000.

Why has development of players been, predominantly, left up to English clubs? Why has it taken this long to even have a plan for a regional centre of excellence in Munster?

On top of all these historical issues- it's virtually impossible to have sympathy for an organisation who have Delaney at the helm.
I still love that great stat from Euro 2012- the final was between Italy and Spain- John Delaney earned more than the combined salaries of the Italian & Spanish FA chief executives.

If anything their stadia are all adequately sized. How many big grounds do you reckon they need?

The average LOI premier division crowd over the last 5 years is 1650. The average First Division crowd is about a quarter of that.

Why should they waste money building big stadia to hold non existent crowds?

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

as opposed to the "dinosaurs" who get millions of people in the gates and supply tens of thousands of children with hurleys and footballs and jerseys

Tell me where we can get these hurleys, footballs and jerseys off the GAA

Poor_old_gill

CrabRevolution wrote: »

If anything their stadia are all adequately sized. How many big grounds do you reckon they need?

The average LOI premier division crowd over the last 5 years is 1650. The average First Division crowd is about a quarter of that.

Why should they waste money building big stadia to hold non existent crowds?

The crowds are low because the product isn’t good enough and isn’t advertised properly.

If they started developing decent players in Ireland and the standard got better then crowds would rise but the FAI is only concerned with the international end of things.

Bonniedog

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Tell me where we can get these hurleys, footballs and jerseys off the GAA

Your local GAA club maybe!

Don't think you would be too popular if you just turned up, took stuff and never came back

CrabRevolution

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

The crowds are low because the product isn’t good enough and isn’t advertised properly.

If they started developing decent players in Ireland and the standard got better then crowds would rise but the FAI is only concerned with the international end of things.

I fully agree, but my point stands that soccer grounds in Ireland are perfectly adequate for 99.9% of the use they get.

Bonniedog

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I fully agree, but my point stands that soccer grounds in Ireland are perfectly adequate for 99.9% of the use they get.

Main problem the LOI has is that most soccer supporters prefer watching "youse" and "us", neither of them having even the slightest relationship to the people concerned, rather than following local teams.

No-one in Manchester, other than some octogenarian exile, follows any LOI team.

Other problem is of course that the organisation is bizarrely run, without wanting to be controversial. Club I was with had perfectly amicable relations with local soccer club with whom we shared players. They did not appear to get much support from those higher up the food chain. Doubt that they are even remotely interested.

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

Your local GAA club maybe!

Don't think you would be too popular if you just turned up, took stuff and never came back

There's a big difference between 'the GAA' and the local GAA club.
One has money, most clubs don't.

Bonniedog

nice_guy80 wrote: »

There's a big difference between 'the GAA' and the local GAA club.
One has money, most clubs don't.

I know. It all goes one gourmet dinners for Dean Rock.

threeball

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Tell me where we can get these hurleys, footballs and jerseys off the GAA

Cul Camps are the cheapest baby sitting service in the world and they throw in a nice jersey, rucksack and sports top.

Pete_Cavan

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I fully agree, but my point stands that soccer grounds in Ireland are perfectly adequate for 99.9% of the use they get.

Yeah and this is why the idea that GAA stadiums should be available to soccer clubs is nonsense. The soccer clubs don't want to use a stadium which would be 90% empty and fans 20m from the sideline. They also prefer using their own facilities, even if they are substandard is case, because they keep all the income instead of paying rent. Perhaps Shane Ross focusing all his energy on reopening Stepaside Garda Station is a good thing because anything that goes towards his ministerial portfolio just makes things worse.

roadmaster

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Yeah and this is why the idea that GAA stadiums should be available to soccer clubs is nonsense. The soccer clubs don't want to use a stadium which would be 90% empty and fans 20m from the sideline. They also prefer using their own facilities, even if they are substandard is case, because they keep all the income instead of paying rent. Perhaps Shane Ross focusing all his energy on reopening Stepaside Garda Station is a good thing because anything that goes towards his ministerial portfolio just makes things worse.

You are correct but in some cases there should be municipal stadiums. Drogheta Utd are moving with the help of louth county council. Louth GAA have said they are moving but they dont know where they are going. Surely it would be cost benefit to both organisations if they had one staduim in drogheda . With the pitch you could go 130 m x 80 m for Football and Hurling which would not make the soccer pitch look so small.

On a side note if shane ross knows better than Assistant Commissioner Pat Leahy about stepside garda station i am sure shane ross knows more about whats best for sporting organisations then they do.

gandalf

I see Ballivor GAA are planning on upgrading sewage and install a new shed. All if this is being facilitated by the cult of Scientology! I knew the GAA was desperate for funding but this is a betrayal of the community by the local GAA as the vast majority don't want the Scientology backed facility that the GAA will help enable to be opened in the town.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/campaigners-sick-to-the-stomach-at-gaa-club-facilitating-scientology-centre-1.3586905?mode=amp

So is this an acceptable way to improve infrastructure at club level?

nice_guy80

gandalf wrote: »

I see Ballivor GAA are planning on upgrading sewage and install a new shed. All if this is being facilitated by the cult of Scientology! I knew the GAA was desperate for funding but this is a betrayal of the community by the local GAA as the vast majority don't want the Scientology backed facility that the GAA will help enable to be opened in the town.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/campaigners-sick-to-the-stomach-at-gaa-club-facilitating-scientology-centre-1.3586905?mode=amp

So is this an acceptable way to improve infrastructure at club level?

They are allowing the builder use the car park.

Ballivor would be a fairly disadvantaged area so I'd say they'd take anything they can get.
And it's not scientology that's building it

gandalf

nice_guy80 wrote: »

They are allowing the builder use the car park.

Ballivor would be a fairly disadvantaged area so I'd say they'd take anything they can get.
And it's not scientology that's building it

To cult of Scientology are the ones funding the whole operation so your splittings hairs with that one. So if a club is in a disadvantaged area it gives them a green light to accept funding from anyone no matter the blowback on the general community?

CK22

http://kildaregaa.ie/update-st-conleths-park-re-development

Kildare have got permission to develop the stand at Conleths Park. Nice little stand I have to say, no pillars in the way, a VIP section. Capacity will rise to 15,000 following completion. Finally a stadium that makes sense in terms of size and facilities. Further development of terraces expected in coming years.

CK22

Also I would assume that because there will be dressing rooms in the new stand, the clubhouse may be knocked down to make the terrace longer, which would be welcome.

C__MC

Just seen the state of casement Park last night

So sad

At this stage - could the ground be re opened and tidied up until planning permission is given?

Awful
Call by Antrim GAA to shut it

funnyname

Nice plans, pity Clare GAA couldn't do the same when they redeveloped their stand.

CK22 wrote: »

http://kildaregaa.ie/update-st-conleths-park-re-development

Kildare have got permission to develop the stand at Conleths Park. Nice little stand I have to say, no pillars in the way, a VIP section. Capacity will rise to 15,000 following completion. Finally a stadium that makes sense in terms of size and facilities. Further development of terraces expected in coming years.

CrabRevolution

C__MC wrote: »

Just seen the state of casement Park last night

So sad

At this stage - could the ground be re opened and tidied up until planning permission is given?

Awful
Call by Antrim GAA to shut it

I found it strange that they just shut up shop in advance of anything happening. You'd think they'd be using it right up until the day the diggers arrived. I'd also imagine it'd need a bit of work to reopen after 5 years of no maintenance whatsoever.

I see Antrim are blaming GAA HQ for this, which I don't understand. As far as I can tell it's local residents who are stopping the redevelopment, not a lack of funds or will from the GAA.

That said, funding could be an issue now for a few planned stadia now that there's no Rugby World Cup angle to work.

smelly sock

gandalf wrote: »

To cult of Scientology are the ones funding the whole operation so your splittings hairs with that one. So if a club is in a disadvantaged area it gives them a green light to accept funding from anyone no matter the blowback on the general community?

The catholic church use our facilities also. If one cult can use them why not another.

blackwhite

C__MC wrote: »

Just seen the state of casement Park last night

So sad

At this stage - could the ground be re opened and tidied up until planning permission is given?

Awful
Call by Antrim GAA to shut it

The Antrim county board have some neck trying to blame GAA HQ for the condition that Casement is in.

Croke Park may have a role in the delay of redevelopment - I don’t think anybody sane person could say that responsibility for basic maintenance (like cutting the fupping grass!!!) lies with anybody except the Antrim County Board themselves

roadmaster

Hopefully the campaign to keep clones will be successful. Much better town and Craic for games than where casement is

nice_guy80

roadmaster wrote: »

Hopefully the campaign to keep clones will be successful. Much better town and Craic for games than where casement is

True.
Plus with brexit you wouldn't know what might happen

Pete_Cavan

The problem with Casement is the site is too small for a big stadium and there isn't sufficient access. Then you also have the political issue of half the Assembly not giving a crap about this project. Everyone was going to be kept happy with three new stadiums but some are delighted to see Casement not progressing now that the rugby and soccer stadiums are sorted.

The only realistic chance of having a large GAA stadium in Belfast was if was if it was built on a larger site without houses up against the stands. 35k all seater was never going to work on the Casement site.