GAA Infastructure

spot555

Casement Park stadium plans are formally approved! (can't post link to BBC article)

"Infrastructure Minister Nichola Mallon announced the successful completion of the planning process for the 34,500-capacity Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) stadium.

In October, Ms Mallon said she had recommended approval of the project but it still had to pass a number of further stages.

Those have now been completed."

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/83081850#Comment_83081850

What are they going to build there next to rehabilitate it after it being a cathedral :)

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673216#Comment_117673216

Such a waste of money if that goes ahead. One game a year the ulster final will fill it and maybe a semi. 15k more than enoght

zetecescort

legal challenge to planning approval at Casement park dismissed

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0531/1302190-casement-redevelopment-closer-after-appeal-dismissed/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141970#Comment_119141970

The residents said it was wrong on constitutional grounds in a country with no constitution.

Fiyatoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675362#Comment_117675362

Considering there was a full house on Sunday past in Clones at almost double that , that renders your argument invalid.

The best ulster championship games between the top few demand 15K easily even if it’s the first round, Derry Tyrone being a prime example in Healy park.

the stadium will be used for concerts and other things throughout the year.

I think the location in ulster isn’t the best but it had to be a city, and was always going to be Belfast. At the minute nowhere is better than going to croke park for me personally but it’ll be good to have an alternative to Clones which is a dirty kip of a town

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142380#Comment_119142380

11 million spent and it is probably still as far away as it was 13 years ago. The cost is spiraling and no sign of who is going to fund it.

Pussyhands

Let's be real, these developments are more about capacity for concerts than sporting events.

Connacht rugby are building a new stadium and their capacity will only be 12k. 30k+ in Casement makes no sense.

With the intercounty scene getting shoved to second fiddle and club game seen as more important, you'd wonder is it worth having all these stadia at all.

Gusser09

Theres no need for this stadium really. The money would be much better spent developing clones and corrigan pk. Its just another example of a bright and shiney toy which will get little use. Will the RFU be allowed to use it as a base for Ireland games in the North? No. Will the IFA get to use it for matches thay require a biggeer capacity? No.

And at the same time the GAA stand by and look at the likes of Newbridge, Navan Mullingar thurles etc fall apart.

It would make your blood boil. The decision to carry on with all of this was political.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142910#Comment_119142910

The end of it may be political as well, as any extra funding will be blocked, you can bet on that. When you have an organisation that has let itself become controlled by bottom line accountants in suits who probably never kicked a ball in their lives, these kind of things happen. The backbone of the GAA - volunteerism - is just laughed at by them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142910#Comment_119142910

Corrigan Park looks pretty badly landlocked so not sure how much can be done. The Casement plans are a bit over the top but I would have no problem with Belfast getting a good stadium.

I wouldn't have Thurles on that list either. Plenty has been put into that place and it got way too many games over the years because of the "history"

PeggyShippen

Thurles at 46,000 capacity can hardly be compared to Navan, Newbridge ect. It certainly needs a face lift but is it worth it with Cork being so good now. Hard to justify it

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675362#Comment_117675362

could say that about pretty much every county ground

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142910#Comment_119142910

i think this will have to be the way with new stadia from now on, multi-use and if the various sporting organisations dont agree to it then tough luck, no public funding for you

Gusser09

Thurles is falling apart. There's no way that Parci Caoimh should have gone ahead to that scale. Thurles is more central and is where the GAA was founded.

We'll end up with a stadium in Ulster full for one game a year. Antrim league games will have max 3-4k at them. It'll be the croker of the North. Absolutely horrific place to watch games when it's not even at least half full. Again Clones is more central and the money should have been used there.

Let other county grounds fall apart and have a few gems dotted in inaccessible location around the country for most counties.

Anyway I'll believe it when it happens.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145566#Comment_119145566

Ya but Thurles the town is also falling apart. I'de much rather head to Cork.

Being the "home of hurling" or any of that BS should have no bearing on where a game is played.

Hilarious too that you are calling Cork and Belfast inaccessible. A small few of the places in Ireland actually have a train going to them.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145587#Comment_119145587

LOL. Wheres the train from Donegal, Fermanagh, Mionaghan and Cavan to Belfast?

LOL. Yes inaccessible for most of the counties who will be involved in games there. We should lash a stadium into the Killybegs while we're at it. Sure lads could sail to it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145618#Comment_119145618

Do those counties have trains to anywhere?

The fact Belfast has a train station makes it a lot less middle of nowhere than Clones.

Pete_Cavan

Talk of Belfast having a train station means nothing. The fact is train will not be an option for most people starting out the journey so theoretically having a train station near the destination is no advantage (and that's before considering all the operational limitations, NIs rail system is worse than ours).

Whatever case there might for having games in Belfast (personally I think there is none), Andersonstown Road is just a terrible location. For all its faults, Clones is actually a fantastic place for before, during and after a game. The case for having a new stadium at the Casement site seems to be the same as that for many out of town stadia around the world, sounded good in theory but in practice the match day experience is crap.

The only redeeming feature of the Casement site is that it's owned already, that seems to be the only thing that matters to those who want a shiny on stadium, no land costs so that more money can be pissed away on the white elephant stadium.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147600#Comment_119147600

I remember going to Casement for a game a few years ago and a simple checkpoint or accident on the motorhead delayed the start of the match for over half an hour, simply because all of the fans were coming in that way..all of them.

Awful place to get in and out of ordinarily and chaos if there is any hold up. And it is soul less.

Clones needs a proper traffic plan and it would improve dramatically and it has tradition and soul.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145566#Comment_119145566

The money for Casement comes from the NI Executive, how could it be spent on Clones?

BaywatchHQ

I don't think there was much wrong with Casement Park in the first place. I haven't read much about the issue but they could have redevelopment the stand and left the terraces. I am not a big fan of fancy modern grounds anyway but I know others have different views. When it shut the terraces were only 14 years old as they were built to replace the grass hills around 1998.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150057#Comment_119150057

They want to have corporate facilities and to be able to host concerts. A county ground for Antrim could have been developed there for not much more than a tenth of what they propose spending (but the whole lot needs knocking at this stage). The whole thing is nothing more than a vanity project.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150057#Comment_119150057

I haven't been up there much but it looked a bit dilapidated. Not that other grounds also don't but it stood out in my mind a a pretty bad one.

PeggyShippen

The area where Casement Park is ,is awful. It's so poor and the housing is atrocious. It's miles from the city centre. It's nothing like Limerick ,Cork or Dublins GAA stadia.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150576#Comment_119150576

Ha you almost got me with that one.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148607#Comment_119148607

What are the GAA putting to it?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150057#Comment_119150057

Concerts and other events apart from GAA matches.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119148607#Comment_119148607

GAA funds going into it as well

PeggyShippen

Hard to justify putting in another 50 million or so into the new stadium. I suppose the UK taxpayer will be expected to pick up the tab for it. They probably will too. The stadium is needed but id like to see things attached.

1. That it be made more 'municipal' . That other sports can and will be playing there.

2. That Ulster GAA makes a serious effort to start GAA clubs in Loyalist areas. The one in East Belfast was more or less started by a few individuals. Id like these Loyalist communities to be able to join without having to use Irish and without having to stand for Amhran na Bfhainn. Those little things would go along way. In my opinion Ulster GAA is too political and republican and needs to tone all the non sporting stuff out. I wish them every success.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147600#Comment_119147600

LOL at Andersontown Rd being a terrible location versus Clones being a 'fantastic' place for before, during and after a game. Have you ever been to match day in Clones on Ulster Final day? Traffic is chaos trying to get to and from there from any location in Ulster, no motorway, no dual carriageway, basically zero Public transportation to the town, its shocking. The only thing that's nice is that there's a good buzz about the town on the Finals day, but you'd have that anywhere the where the finals are staged. Casement is not 'out of town' it's in west Belfast, Ireland's second city, fully connected to public transportation, and is nearby a motorway.

'White elephant' stadium also, have you seen the state St Tiernach's Park is in? wooden benches galore, barely any toilet facilities, barely anywhere inside the ground to get something to eat/drink - Ulster GAA need a fit for purpose stadium- plus any concerts etc that they host, all the money the GAA get for renting out the stadium is reinvested in our games across the country unlike say Aviva Stadium where ticket revenues it just goes back into salaries for professional rugby/football players - id much rather have a stadium generating loads of money for investing in GAA facilities/coaching etc across the country.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154056#Comment_119154056

I seen a while back ulster GAA are already open to discussions with the Irish FA about hosting 2028 Euros soccer matches in Casement, so absolutely the stadium will likely be made available to any other sports events that wish to rent the stadium. Plus its great for the GAA as any money from renting out Casement is reinvested back into Gaelic facilities/coaching etc.

Regarding your second point, clubs can be started by anyone who wishes to start a club, its all grassroots. There is nothing stopping anyone from starting a new club today in a Loyalist area (apart from maybe threats from loyalist paramilitaries as we've unfortunately seen with East Belfast GAA). Re: having to use Irish, Its one line on an application form asking for your name in Irish, hardly the most challenging/difficult of tasks to complete - you can find it fairly easily with a google search. Re: national anthem, the organisation operates on an all-ireland basis, you can chose to sing the anthem or not. Indeed maybe we could add Ireland's Call as an alternative or to compliment Amhran na Bfhiann in future.

Please give examples of Ulster GAA being 'too political' and 'republican', specifically around 'all the non sporting stuff'. Ulster GAA (I don't work/volunteer for them or anything, am just a member of my local GAA club) by far and way lead the other provincial councils (and indeed can be compared to their regional counterparts in the IFA and Ulster Rugby) with how they operate, v. professional setup imo, they seem to make efforts with every element of Gaelic Games across all the codes in addition to Scor etc. Plus they run the great cross community Cuchulainn initiative in addition to running the EU Peace Sports initiatives along with Ulster Rugby and the Irish FA.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154173#Comment_119154173

??? If all the money is going back, how come the facilities in Clones aren't better? It's not hard to build decent toilets and shop units.

I'll tell you why, because the self same GAA allowed the facility to downgrade by not investing in it. A fraction fo the money being spent in Belfast would bring Clones up to a sustainable level. And if the Ulster Council would change the policy of not caring about the supporter once they get the ticket fee off them and properly manage the traffic that problem could be eased.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154260#Comment_119154260

Because ten plus odd years ago, the NI Executive was gonna build a municipal stadium for all the big sports at the Maze but that plan was scrapped and instead the NI Executive created the Regional Stadia programme, offering Ulster GAA the opportunity to make a massive investment in one of its stadiums north of the border through a combination of Ulster GAA and NI Executive money, and where better to do it then in Ireland's second city, accessible by motorway, public transportation both within the city and to and from the city. Plus the opportunity of hosting concerts and conferences etc given that it's Belfast (with no disrespect to Clones here, big acts though will only generally play in cities/well connected towns etc) allows for even more money to be generated for investment in our games.

Why would they invest in Clones when they're given the above opportunity, plus factor that in with it being fairly difficult to get to clones plus the town itself isn't in a great state tbf.

There's nothing stopping Clones GAA however from investing in the ground if they so wish / apply for grants from Croke Park/Governemnt etc.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154056#Comment_119154056

From what I can remember the GAA were pro the Maze stadium and it's actually not their fault at all that soccer and rugby stuck with their 2 non "municipal" stadia instead.

PeggyShippen

Ulster GAA has some excellent administrators and volunteers. Always had. My comment about it being too political ,well its obvious isn't it. They've named Clubs and club grounds after guys who got killed in the troubles,some fairly reprehensible people who were indeed some mothers son but who blew up or attempted to murder others. They need to cut out plaques that commemorate these people . It's a bad look and alienates others like me and I'm not a Unionist or Loyalist but a regular GAA member from Munster.Thats something that can go a long way.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

//

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154331#Comment_119154331

Clones and Clones GAA already and for years have invested massive time and money into the stadium so has the Irish state. But it is not enough and the miserly approach of the Ulster Council is the main reason for the current state.

If you purposefully downgrade the facilities you have then sure you can make an easy case to waste more money on a new souless stadium,

Word is the business plan for Casement may finally see the end of it, though. The permission to host gigs may be more torturous and restrictive than the Garth Brooks debacle. Resistance from Unionism to more money being committed to it will be intense too.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154647#Comment_119154647

Why would Ulster council bother investing money in Clones if they're going to be redeveloping a stadium elsewhere in Belfast, with a view to all their major games taking place there in future also. It would just be money wasted on Ulster GAA's part for what is a dilapidated facility.

'Soulless' - what make St Tiernach's Park full of soul while a newly redeveloped Casement Park 'soulless' - if anything there will be a massive buzz for Gaels across Ulster moving to a brand new, modern fit for purpose stadium.

They've already got Planning Permission for the stadium incl. 3 gigs a year. Its also a UK Gov/NI Exec. commitment under the NDNA Agreement. The original money is ring fenced whilst the gap in funding will likely be covered by the UK Gov. (rightly so though imo, if this was Windsor Park or Ravenhill in the same situation, I would want them funded as it is the right thing to do under the original Regional Stadia Agreement.)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154702#Comment_119154702

 will likely be covered by the UK Gov. 

There is nothing guaranteed, watch the uproar if the UK gov dig deeper for the extra costs, which are exponentially greater than they were. The business plan doesn't support the extra costs I have heard.

2 of the millions they have already thrown at Casement would have made Clones fit for use for the next ten years, which looks like the time frame before this gets built. There is no excuse for the state of Clones. You are blaming the wrong people for it, is the point.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154774#Comment_119154774

Building Casement (Completing the Regional Stadia Programme) is a UK Government/NI Executive commitment under the New Decade, New Approach Agreement. It will be built (and most likely the shortfall will be covered by the UK Gov.)

Again, this was an opportunity given by the NI Executive for the Ulster Council to redevelop a modern, fit for purpose new stadium after the Maze project failed.

Maybe ten years ago but 2 million euro now would get you very little for modernising the stadium. Plus Clones is hard to get to for the majority of the province, traffic is always chaos on match days with little to no proper parking facilities (parking in fields is not proper facilities), little to no public transportation (I doubt the local link will help many outside of County Monaghan[or indeed those within the county!]) and the town itself is just unfortunately in a sorry state. Also there's pretty much no potential for Clones to host concerts/conferences etc as any modern day stadium should as a means of a generating revenue to make the stadium both sustainable and profitable in the long term (Whilst generating additional funds for the GAA to redistribute nationally).

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154828#Comment_119154828

How would I get to Belfast for a game from Monaghan? I'll tell you, the exact same way someone from Donegal gets to Clones. Transportation is gonna be the same to a large degree, car and bus.

3 concerts a year is not gonna bring the windfall you think and that is probably why the business plan is not making sense now.

Parking in fields is the norm for massive events like EP or Glastonbury. Coming up with a proper traffic plan would solve a lot of it. Not even Croker can cope with traffic on a big day and it's something big event goers put up with and expect. I have spent two hours getting out on to the M1 on big Croker days.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154940#Comment_119154940

Monaghan town to Belfast - ten mins up to ballygawley roundabout on main road then smooth dual carriageway and motorway directly to Belfast - max 1hr20mins. Public transportation - several bus services both direct and via connections to Belfast from Monaghan town.

All roads in the North lead to Belfast in addition to this, again via motorway, dual carriageway or main road, not least all public transport in the north also leads to Belfast, be it Bus or Train.

Three concerts, 100-150+ odd conferences/event hires annually of inside the stadium for meetings etc, having boxes/corporate seats and tickets for the uLSTER Finals series, All Ireland qualifiers - I think the revenues will work out nicely for Ulster GAA/The GAA - benefitting gaels across Ireland through good re-investment by the GAA into training facilities/coaching etc across the Island.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155182#Comment_119155182

You'd wonder how anyone manages to get to Clones or any other venue for intercounty matches to listen to you.

Casement will be no easier or harder to get to. And the inability to get to it won't hamper profits, it never has, even in the days when nearly 40,000 made it to Clones.

There is no venue that can handle that volume and delays are normal and most accept that.

Maybe the GAA should get into music promotion biz and forget about football altogether? That obsession with profit and the bottom line finished me with premiership soccer, I would hate to see the GAA go the same way, but signs are that they are.

zetecescort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154457#Comment_119154457

ah stop will ya. sure if the orange order cut out the political stuff we'd all join down here. aren't we only mad for parades. I suppose you want streets and housing estates renamed too

Pete_Cavan

The parking situation at Casement is no better than at Clones.

I'd say a new Casement would struggle to get concerts, the capacity at 34k isn't big enough for big acts. The Boucher Road Fields isn't overly busy with concerts and I'm sure it won't want to give up that income. Croker makes big money from concerts because it gets the big acts who pay big money because they can sell 80k high priced tickets per night. Concerts on that scale are very lucrative but Casement wouldn't be anywhere near that.

A stadium like that proposed would have huge running costs and the GAA don't want to get saddled with that again after PUC. It would be a white elephant and complete waste of money, anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155434#Comment_119155434

"Casement will be no easier or harder to get to" - This is simply not true. If you dropped me into to pretty much nearly any town in Ulster you can be pretty sure i'd easier to get to Belfast wayyyy quicker than Clones, as again, especially in the north, all roads and public transit leads to Belfast. This is simply not the case with Clones. You would struggle to get there without a car, but even with a car you're driving on crappy backroads, no motorway/dual carriageway etc.

Lol if it meant the money was reinvested back into Gaelic infrastructure and coaching across the Island, by all means let the GAA promote music/gigs in our venues, unlike say the premier league where the money just goes to share holders of the clubs and the massive salaries of players and managers, with GAA the vast majority of the money is reinvested in our games

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155535#Comment_119155535

Probably why the business plan is in trouble.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155535#Comment_119155535

You've a whole network of public transit along with park and rides across Ulster that will help alleviate traffic and transition people from cars to public transit. I believe they actually have plans to really push public transport for the new Casement when it opens (avoid lots of people driving/parking etc).

Re: Gigs, this is nonsense - Boucher Road, Ormeau Park, Botanic Gardens, Custom House Square and the SSE Arena have loads of gigs over the summer - all of theses venues are smaller capacity than Casement so of course the likes of ed Sheehan will want to play in a bigger venue (like Casement) if he can.

Totally disagree that it'll be a white elephant, look at Croke park, loads of conferences, meetings, gigs and matches, same will happen with Casement as they'll no doubt put in place a decent Operations team to get the Stadium going. PuiC is attracting gigs, conferences and meetings now and will no doubt only grow as a venue for these events as Cork City continues to grow.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156155#Comment_119156155

You said it yourself. Clones is falling apart for want of investment. The 'money' therefore isn't filtering to where it is needed NOW or for the last decade and more as they pursue the shiny new jewel.

It's wrongheaded nonsense.

30,000 people make their way to Clones again and again and before the capacity was reduced up to 40,000 and the last complaint you will hear is 'I couldn't get there by public transport. I am almost 50 years involved in this..from selling programmes to working on the final/semi finals.

In that 50 years, the greatest threat to numbers attending is the cost of the product...the money you would have to spend to follow your county to an All Ireland is just astronomical. Concerts in Croker have driven the price of attending games up, rather than down.

kentuckyfriedchicken2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156184#Comment_119156184

Am repeating myself but why would they invest in St Tiernachs Park when the NI Executive have presented this amazing opportunity to get a brand new, state of the art, fit for purpose stadium for a fairly small amount of money on Ulster GAA's part - there's no point, its a waste when they know there's going to be a new stadium built (with the majority of it funded by the UK Government) and all their future big matches etc will be held there.

The fact is getting to and from Clones is a nightmare, be it private or public transport (again no disrespect to Clones, but when you compare it with travelling to Belfast, it's night and day). The facilities in and outside of St Tiernachs Park are fairly poor. The town itself is in a sorry state. The NI Executive is willing to invest in our games with a showpiece state of the art stadium in our second city, why on earth wouldn't we want such a facility (with the further ability on the GAA's part to generate further income by means of concerts, conferences, meetings and events that can be reinvested in our games.

"Concerts in Croker have driven the price of attending games up, rather than down" - this is nonsense, where is your evidence for this?