GAA Infastructure

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909245#Comment_119909245

Oh for crying out loud, when is this nonsense going to stop?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909245#Comment_119909245

The new PUC cost 99 million.This is going to be a serious upgrade. Its good to have a senior minister in your area

PeggyShippen

72million...rising to 120 million no doubt. Then the standard will still be below international soccer and rugby requirements. Dont forget the Gaelic Grounds is pushing on and it's more central than Fitzgerald stadium. That's another 130million... and on we go

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909860#Comment_119909860

Years ago in Connacht at least there was a push to make a single ground the main ground in the province, and develop that ground accordingly.

Hyde Park was the choice of the Connacht Council, but it was objected to and twarted by Mayo and Galway.

It needs to get back to that way of thinking.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909860#Comment_119909860

But what’s the argument? That we should let many GAA grounds fall into disrepair? Killarney was a shithole when I last visited it 10 years ago. We just do nothing for another 30 years until it’s practically falling down or we just put in a couple of hundred thousand so that it looks a little better but is still a kip?

breezy1985

72m is what they are asking for it might not be what they get.

Hopefully they are told to cop on. Its a very remote single code stadium it doesn't need to be a high end one. Give em a bit of money for minor upgrades but it doesn't need more than that.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909952#Comment_119909952

That approach will leave a relic in a few decades if it’s not already a relic. What’s the long term plan here? Do you think it will just be passable to have it in the same state in 50 years? Do you not see that it’s eventually going to need a significant upgrade so why waste 300k on polishing a turd, just plan to do it proper.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909956#Comment_119909956

I think it would be great if it was significantly upgraded but there are 32 counties to worry about and Killarney is nowhere near the most pressing issue stadium wise. Throw money at this and stadia that are currently relics will fall down now never mind 50 years.

If Kerry CB are so worried why did they recently spend money pointlessly increasing capacity with a new terrace instead of building a new one.

Pete_Cavan

There is no way €72m will be spent in Killarney, they'd be doing very well if they got 10% of that from the government. That meeting was just a PR stunt for Foley, she has no influence and doubt she'll be at cabinet after the reshuffle.

They don't get enough big games and I can't see a stadium there attracting many concerts, there are already facilities for acts of a certain size in the town. Conferences might do well but again lots of competition, a museum and tourist attraction could help cover operating costs but would be a drop in the ocean towards construction costs.

A full rebuild isn't realistic. They should look at replacing the existing long side terrace with what becomes the new main stand with conference facilities and museum, then tart up the other stand a bit. Capacity would obviously drop but that would be a good thing.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909987#Comment_119909987

Yeh agreed. Parish Pump stuff at it's best. Munster don't need any investment really. Pairc ui Caoimh should be the croke park of the province. Let thurles, Killarney and Limerick go to shite like we have done with every ground in Leinster apart from Corker.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909986#Comment_119909986

I think there are many many pressing issues in sports infrastructure across Ireland (if you want to tell me what are the more pressing issues stadia wise you talk about then please do) and unfortunately because it’s never being confronted when labour and materials were cheap the problem is only getting worst and the policy of kicking the can is eventually going to need to be confronted with major investment.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909998#Comment_119909998

Letting all bar a handful of stadiums go to shite would be hugely damaging to the GAA and such a policy would never be accepted. We need good facilities in reasonable sized stadiums to retain and attract players and supporters.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909998#Comment_119909998

Boo hoo poor Leinster 😭

O'Moore Park is a grand stadium as is Tullamore. Nowlan Park is one of the nicest grounds in the country and should be the blueprint for 80% of county grounds. Wexford park is fine bar needing better seats and Longford got a redevelopment and it's not Croke Park or Munsters fault it failed.

There are grounds that do need work like Meath who have had to stop due to lack of money, Louth who hopefully will still go ahead (again money), Wicklow, Westmeath and Kildare who really have no excuse for the state they let things get to.All of need government and GAA help before we start worrying about Killarney.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910163#Comment_119910163

So all Leinster grounds need to be good before Killarney?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910315#Comment_119910315

No but the ones I mentioned in the last paragraph do. They are in an absolutely dire state.

PeggyShippen

Munster is what, 1.4 million people with a really strong GAA tradition. It's also the biggest province by geographical size. Cork city isn't near alot of places. Thurles ,Gaelic Grounds and Cork are the 3 traditional munster final venues and Kilarney occasionally. It's got a totally different dynamic than the other provinces . Way bigger crowds

CrabRevolution

I was only half listening to the radio when the Fitzgerald Stadium upgrade was reported and originally assumed they were talking about cancelling the project when the estimated price was €72 Million. I was shocked to see they were being serious about it.

How anyone can say there's a good business case for spending over €72 Million on a stadium which will only ever reach capacity in the event that;

1. Cork have a strong Football team.
2. Kerry and Cork both make the Munster final. and
3. It's Kerry's turn to host.

This can only happen once every 2 years at most and hasn't happened at all in the last decade.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119915610#Comment_119915610

The other option is for it to be a kip. Eventually all stadiums need to upgraded. Just the same as any public facility.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119915731#Comment_119915731

No one is disputing that.

The argument is about the ludicrous 72m figure. You don't even know what they are going to spend it on because they have not given a solid plan.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119915851#Comment_119915851

Well they should have a published plan. They’ll need that for funding for sure. I don’t find 72 million rising to god knows what, ludicrous personally. Building in Ireland is expensive and Killarney needs major work on the evidence of my last visit 10 or so years ago

Pete_Cavan

There is a very wide spectrum between kip and all singing, all dancing, big concert hosting stadium. It's not either/or.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916153#Comment_119916153

It’s a spectrum between a kip and a modern facility.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916153#Comment_119916153

Exactly.

72m is just county board conference shte talk.

roadmaster

The new talllaght North stand which will hold 2000 people came in i believe around 8 million. Total project is 11.5 million inculding other works. So you can see how mad prices are at the moment

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916177#Comment_119916177

when you have a large very old stadium you will eventually need to replace all of it. Kerry could plan to have half a kip and half a modern facility but again in 20 or so years the kip will need to be replaced.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916332#Comment_119916332

Your saying all this but you still don't have a clue what the plan is.

And your still talking about 20 years from now. There are places already kips nevermind 20 years from now that need money too.

If they said build a new stadium I would agree with you but all they said was upgrades for vague "events"

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916698#Comment_119916698

Ok so you’ve no issue if the cost is 72 million for an eventual overhaul that is large and planned? I think they should publish the plan alright, I don’t see any even mildly ambitious plan having a price tag of less than 72 million. There is a lot of work to do there.

in terms of other places being kips, yes I agree there is…Kerry are not concerned about other kips, they are concerned about their kip.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916722#Comment_119916722

Yes Kerry are right to be concerned about their own kip and like every county should try their best to bring in funds.

But the government and GAA are also right to say "72m go away to fk Kerry"

What is the "lot of work" that needs to be done there ?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916747#Comment_119916747

if government tell Kerry to eff off then grand, just leave off any more rugby World Cup bids like we embarrassed ourselves with before, proposing Killarney as a possible venue in that fiasco.

in terms of what work needs to be done: seems Kerry GAA think 72 million’s worth probably rising to 100 million.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916774#Comment_119916774

So you don't know what needs to be done but you are telling us all the place is definitely a kip without 72m

Isn’t the new Dalymount Park up around the 50mill price tag? For 8000 seats??

kerry want 70mill that won’t even put a dent on what needs to be done.

KerryGAA need to learn there lessons from Cork and pUC

Either knock it all down and start a fresh with max capacity 20k and do a right good job of it

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916779#Comment_119916779

Yes it’s a kip, a relic. It needed large scale modernization when I visited it for a match 10 years ago. That’s why Kerry GAA are looking to upgrade it to a modern venue at huge cost. But I agree they should publish the plan for the investment which I’ve already said.

if government say no then ok. But please don’t claim it’s anything other than a relic. As are over 50% of county grounds.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916836#Comment_119916836

Kerry have not mentioned anything about building stands or stadia though. They just said upgrades.

I agree about the 20k thing though. Counties need to stop building stadia to suit the 2 game every few years and instead make them fit for the guaranteed league and early championship matches. As I said earlier I love Nowlan Park as a blueprint.

ah Nolan is only alright, wouldn’t rate it that highly.

if Kerry do it right an All seater and all 4 stands roofed would set up the south west region for the next 100 year’s.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917344#Comment_119917344

All seater would be absolutely crazy. Why would you take away the terraces ?

The reason I like Nowlan Park is its a good size for all types of games and a good mix of covered and uncovered for summer and winter. Obviously any new stadium would be better in terms of amenities.

WesternZulu

Completely agree with others who have said that most counties get carried away with themselves and build these massive stadium's that are full once a year if you're being optimistic.

What they end up building is a half arsed job with below par facilities with 3 open terraces in a country where it pretty much rains constantly throughout the year.

For example see MacHale Park in Castlebar. Massive investment for a huge stand that has pillars obstructing views and blue seats that were probably installed only because they were cheaper. Just not good enough; all in the name of capacity over quality. Meanwhile the other 3 sides of the stadium are concrete benches open to the elements of the West.

What Mayo, and other countries, should focus is on is building far smaller but better equipped stadiums. Some of the smaller stadiums used by soccer teams in Scandinavia should be used as a blueprint as to how to do these things properly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917406#Comment_119917406

GAA Terraces are ****.

nobody wants to be standing in an empty or 1/4 terrace without a roof watching matches in the lashing rain and wind and cold during league and first few rounds of Munster.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917734#Comment_119917734

I think you'd find that most GAA fans are more than happy to stand on a terrace, whatever the weather. In any case, having an all seater stadium would be too costly and isn't feasible.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917734#Comment_119917734

Loads of people choose the terrace that's absolute nonsense.

As usual "nobody" in Ireland means "me"

As I said earlier places like Nowlan Park have a covered terrace for just that. Lots of stadia have covered terraces. We are talking about building a new stadium so you build a not sht terrace. And a 20k capacity stadium would not need to open the terrace for the games you mention.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917766#Comment_119917766

But if given the opportunity to sit or stand in a covered stand/terrace with better facilitie they wouldnt take it?

An all seater stadium doesnt have to be too costly but most stadiums are just not good enough in this day and age and should be done up

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917768#Comment_119917768

I’ve been to lots of stadiums in the world to watch all types of sports.

Can tell ya for certain that GAA stadiums in Munster are absolutely shocking especially terraces and will never get us (Ireland) big sporting tournaments.

The point I’m trying to make is if Kerry GAA are going to spend 70+ million then they should do it right and think 100 year’s down the line & future proof it. They’ll make the money back for sure.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917778#Comment_119917778

A seated stand doesn’t have to have better facilities than a terrace. That is just an old-fashioned mindset, like a terrace having a roof is some out of this world concept. And yes many people do choose to stand, it allows the opportunity to move around and chat to different people, or get anyway from some you don't want to be around.

If doing up a stadium, it is almost certainly going to be much cheaper to upgrade an existing terrace to a better terrace than creating a seated stand. In many cases, a terrace can be upgraded as a terrace by breaking out concrete and pouring new concrete over. A seated stand would have a completely different profile so would almost certainly require complete demolition and rebuilding. It is going to cost a lot more and is unlikely to deliver any additional income.

PeggyShippen

'All seater' stadiums are actually old fashioned now. Some people want to stand. There's 'rail terracing 'which is coming to many premiership clubs as we speak.

Let's call a spade a spade. If you really want to do a proper modern stadium that's good enough for soccer and rugby then you need to be spending about 200,000 million. That's the bottom line. What we ll get for the 72 or 80 or 90 million is PUC mark 2. A good stadium ,perfect for GAA and the odd friendly but not good enough for much else.

Kilarney is miles from anywhere in Munster except West Cork. Hurling teams have no interest in taking a Munster final there. The Gaelic Grounds Thurles and PUC are sufficient a d the big money should only go into those 3. Thurles is the GAAs second stadium. Cork is home to close on 600,000 and Limerick is very strategically placed for qualifiers, Munster finals and as were seen the odd All Ireland match such as Kerry v mayo

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917798#Comment_119917798

I agree about the current stadia. They are big empty shells.

But if you are building a brand new one you would still build a terrace like many modern high end stadia have. Even the Premier League has gone back to standing areas. Closer to home people love the terraces at Thomond Park and many choose them over seats.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909872#Comment_119909872

100 % this , Big regional grounds for major chamionship games and then county ground with a good stand to keep you dry during the league with proper toliets and somewhere to get a nice coffee.

The average league attendence i would say for must county would not exceed 6k and early round championships 10k

As a poster mentioned the Nordic Countrys have a good template. If you where to build a 10/15K all seater v 25k stadium with a stand and big terreaces would the price work out in the same ball park?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918728#Comment_119918728

In most cases, to build a 10/15K all seater you have to knock the existing stands and start building from scratch. This is going to be far more expensive than refurbishing existing terraces (and adding facilities as necessary). In that case, capacity has little/nothing to do with it. Refurbing three terraces and rebuilding the main stand even if capacity is 25k is going to be a lot cheaper than building a knocking and rebuilding all new stands for 15k capacity. You could say several stadiums are too big but that capacity is there and isn't costing anything, making it smaller and all seater will cost a fortune.

Going back to Killarney specifically, as I said before, they should just refurb the existing seated stand but as the secondary stand and build a new main stand on the other side. Below you can see the new stand planned at St Conleths Park, a variation on this with conference possibility and a museum should be designed for the existing long side terrace. I'm sure this could be done for one third of the money KCB are talking about.

https://kildaregaa.ie/club-kildare/

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918879#Comment_119918879

I think westmeath are going down a refurb route. They are replacing the benches in the stand with bucket seats,Upgrading dressing rooms and replacing the stand roof. The main terracce is getting a scrub down and remedial works done to the barriers on the terrace. A lot better yhan the idea they had of building a 26k stadium in the 2000s

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119918879#Comment_119918879

There is a plan to roof the uncovered stand in Limerick which hopefully will become the new main stand if they stick a few shops in. Mackey Stand has terrible views and ide love to see it knocked for something like above.

raindodger

open stand in limerick brilliant on a dry day, wet day =wet arse.If you roofed it pillars would have to go in restricting views.Mackey stand has no redeeming feature

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119919005#Comment_119919005

Pillars don't have to go in.