GAA Infastructure

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379446#Comment_121379446

Why, Dublin County Board, of course.

But you appear to be missing the point. Their outlay on maintenance of an 8,500 ground where there are no significant plans for development is considerably less than the outlay of other counties on development/maintenance of larger grounds.

They get away with this because the rental of Croke Park is so readily available to them. If it wasn't, they'd have no choice but to either build and maintain a larger ground of their own, or else face an ongoing financial loss by only being able to accommodate 8,500 spectators when even their Div. 2 League matches this year attracted crowds in the region of 18,000 to 20,000.

breezy1985

Is there not a special thread for whinging about the Dubs or am I getting Boards and Hogan Stand mixed up ?

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379490#Comment_121379490

Bigger seats, and/or seats being more spaced out, would mean a reduction in capacity, and this in turn would surely lead to higher ticket prices, at least for All-Ireland Finals and other potential 'sell-outs'.

Bit like the difference between flying economy class and flying first class!

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380795#Comment_121380795

I'm not whinging at all. I'm simply pointing out a financial reality.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380817#Comment_121380817

Likewise, I have no desire to do the Dublin GAA discussion that’s being done millions of times before but when people are saying dublin GAA could teach the FAI something then I feel it’s important to cite some realities about the difference in the scale of challenges facing both groups.

awec

https://ulster.gaa.ie/2023/11/ulster-gaa-statement-on-casement-park-project/

Yet another setback for Casement as it’s forced to change contractor and go back to procurement stage again.

PeggyShippen

Casement won't be available for the Euros . That's obvious. Too much 'pushback"

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121418684#Comment_121418684

No way another Irish venue will get the games north or south

Mal-Adjusted

Queue the "surprised" and"shocked" northern politicians when their euro games are taken from them.

PeggyShippen

It's toast. In Northern Ireland you've to bring one community totally with you and not upset the other one at least. Tgats the minimum. Unionists and loyalists are upset.

The idea of a GAA stadium in Republican West Belfast is too much for Unionists to not get 'upset' . The stadium is toast as far as I can see.It might get built at some stage but it ll host no Euro games.That's almost certain now. It's a terrible pity . Iv played hurling in Casement twice.

PeggyShippen

I meant a Gaa stadium hosting Northern Irish football games.

megadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379490#Comment_121379490

Funny you should mention the size of seats in England, as I attended an American Football match in Twickenham a few years ago and was stunned at how tight the fit was.

I am 6'2", so while I'm big I'm no giant, but my friend is about 5'8" and both of us spent the entire match sitting sideways as we simply couldn't sit straight without our knees being strongly pressed into the seat in front. Thankfully the couple beside me spent most of the match at the bar which gave us the room to sit sideways, but it was extremely uncomfortable either way.

Bearing in mind that the current version of Twickenham is relatively newly developed I simply cannot believe they got permission to build it the way it is. I've never had the same problems in Croke Park.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420221#Comment_121420221

The Shed End in Chelsea is the worst I have ever seen. You just have to stand.

roadmaster

There is going to be a piece on tonight's Prime Time about Casement

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/1130/1419354-casement-park-row/

roadmaster

Paric Tailteann Main Stand to start by the end of next year with Floodlights also being reinstalled

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2023/12/06/e2-3m-pairc-boost/

Tombo2001

Dublin inner city.

Have said it on other threads, so sorry for repeating.

But it is brutal that there are no GAA playing facilities available in what is the most socially deprived area in the entire country.

(I mean a place where kids from the inner city can play Gaelic football, therefore not Croke Park).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466168#Comment_121466168

It sucks but sadly it's the same in all big city centres. Very hard to find anything outside of a 5 a side soccer pitch.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466168#Comment_121466168

Whatever facilities that could be built would be wrecked by the usual crowd.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466243#Comment_121466243

Well.... there is a uniqueness about the GAA that means I dont think a 'big city comparison' is really valid. The way that communities are built around clubs. I dont think that really applies to other sports or other cities.

TBH - what would work well is if the pitch on Fairview Park was handed over to a club; but in fairness all the soccer clubs would be kicking up then.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466363#Comment_121466363

The inner boxing clubs dont have this problem.

Ironically - the whole point is that so the usual crowd have something to do other than go out and wreck things.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466540#Comment_121466540

There is no "uniqueness" about the GAA. Plenty of countries have little towns and villages with nothing going on but a single team.

Communities are not built around clubs in major towns and cities in Ireland. Many parts of all our cities don't have GAA clubs. And no team sport seems to have pitches until you get to Drumcondra where you have Na Fianna close to the rugby and soccer club and Vincent's is just north oof Fairview Park.

It sucks and land should have been protected by councils for community sport long ago but that's how cities have developed over the years.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466710#Comment_121466710

I'd fairly strongly disupute that.

Two examples - was talking to a London colleague, saying I would be going coaching later that evening. He was asking me what I was on about. I explained that I was going to coach an underage team, that I'd been doing it for a number of years. That all underage teams in the club are coached by volunteer parents. That this would come to hundreds of volunteer parents coaching in our club. He said that if it was London, we would be paying a big fee. That the idea of volunteer coaches doesnt exist; all the underage coaches are paid. Thats what he told me, I cant say if its right but thats what he sees. Its certainly that way in the States, its well documented. Yes the GAA is unique, culturally.

Linked - Na Fianna at the weekend; 3000 people walk from the clubhouse to Croke Park to watch the team play in Croke Park. Communities arent built around clubs in big cities - are you kidding me? Seriously.....

To my point on the inner city - read Philly McMahons book to see what that club did for the community in Ballymun

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467053#Comment_121467053

He is probably confused about the level of sport you are talking about. Club GAA is at the level of what they call Sunday league or grassroots and they are just as proud of the volunteer thing as we are. I knew plenty of lads in London volunteered for clubs. There is a level above that which the English call small and local but it's LOI level and they would get something.

Also how can you say the GAA is unique when all of the local soccer and rugby in Ireland is run by volunteers too.

Yes Na Fianna has fans of course it does and yes it means a lot to them but the community is not built around the club. That only exists in one horse villages. Those city communities will be built around a vast number of clubs, pubs, groups and whatever else.

Jus looking closer to home nobody would say "Caherdavin is built around Na Piarsaigh" or "Monaleen built around the club"

One thing the GAA does seem unique for is all this mythology and folklore but it's mostly marketing.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467116#Comment_121467116

Ok point taken but its not black and white - to say a community is built around something, thats a high bar. To say the local gaa club is hugely important to the community is still valid - in a way soccer clubs arent because they dont tend to have their own club houses and facilities. Rugby Clubs can claim also this status sometimes, but there aren't nearly as many of them. I can think of three rugby clubs in Northside Dublin - so they dont tend to be central to the community - whereas if you look at Cabra, Glasnevin, Marino, Ballymun, Raheny, Coolock, Artane all of these have their own GAA clubs that are absolutely central to the community; major focal points for young and old, men and women - probably more so than the church in any of these places for example.

The North Inner City is missing this. Thats the point I am trying to make

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467315#Comment_121467315

Ya the north inner city is missing this and its sad. The only real way to solve it is clear a patch of land in the middle of the city. Putting pitches in a park that's already next to soccer pitches in a park and in a current GAA clubs catchment will do nothing for little Joxer.

I would say you are wrong about soccer clubs too especially in that area with Home Farm. Round my way Pike, Star, Janesboro, Summerville and Ashling would all feel like they have a community and have club houses iirc.

Don't forget most inner cities predate the Victorian era which is when all our sports really began so those areas were well covered before clubs became a thing.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467315#Comment_121467315

But if we flip to the southside and in particular the southwest of Dublin it's soccer clubs that are the focal point whether St Patricks in Inchicore or Shamrock Rovers in Tallaght at a LOI level or the likes of Bluebell United and Crumlin United at LSL level. I see what you saying and in those areas you refer to in North Dublin it makes sense but those areas mostly have a long history and tradition of GAA. Just settling up a GAA club in an area and expecting it to become a community hub will not work. Indeed in the North Inner City and Sheriff Street, Sheriff YC have provided sports for the local areas and in Phibsboro Bohemians have become much more prominent in the local area recently.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467366#Comment_121467366

Yes I kind of see what you mean - certainly bohemians fc, I'd go to them a lot -but I wouldnt say its as community based, they get fans coming in from all over to watch the games. Also you wouldnt get young lads going up in the evening for a kick around in Dalymount, whereas say in the summer months there would be lads up in the gaa club for hours on end pucking about.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467545#Comment_121467545

Depends how you define community really. A group of people coming together support Bohs (ugh) can also also be described as a community really. Your second point with regards to youngsters hanging around hitting a ball around is fair enough although I have noticed a recent trend in some places mostly small towns it has to be said where the club locks the ground when it's not in use. Guess they're afraid of vandalism sadly.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467545#Comment_121467545

The clubs I mentioned are at a lower level than Bohs and are just as community based as any GAA club I know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467575#Comment_121467575

It's insurance claims they are afraid of not vandalism.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466168#Comment_121466168

There is generally a lack of playing pitches in city centres. As has already been said, cities were well developed before sports became a passtime for the general population and city centre land is very valuable for other uses. Add in the sheer size of a GAA and it's not surprising that there aren't any in the core city centre.

You don't have to go far out to find them and the situation has been improving. On the north side specifically, within 2km of the Spire there is St Brenden's who now have good facilities at Grangegorman and the GAA will add a GAA pitch on the land they bought at Clonliffe College. Not much further out, you have Fairview Park, St Vincent's, new pitch at DCU St. Pat's, Na Fianna and St. Finbar's.

I doubt there are many people in Dublin city centre who couldn't get to a GAA pitch in less than 20 minutes. Part of the issue with community in the city centre may be that the names of most of the clubs don't reflect the area, a lot being named after saints.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468677#Comment_121468677

I would say the names being ambiguous is part of the plan in a city.

Na. Piarsaigh for instance who have the whole northside of Limerick to themselves might not want to limit their catchment by calling the club Caherdavin.

Or a Cabra fella might play for Na Fianna would might hate anything called Drumcondra.

The loss of handball alleys and the fading of that game was a big loss for inner city Gaelic games.

PeggyShippen

There is a growing issue with sports clubs becoming politicised aswell. We obviously have some Ulster clubs being named after terrorists and this in itself excludes people. Then we have the likes of Bohemians who are a left wing / alternative club who's politics would be the opposite of mine. I wouldnt go and watch or let my kids participate in a club like Bohs . Id drive 45mins to avoid them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469551#Comment_121469551

How in god's name can a GAA fan claim sport is "becoming politicised"

It always has been and not just in Ireland either.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469551#Comment_121469551

The 'terrorist' designation is meaningless here. Those clubs are not named after people the community see as 'terrorists'.

Your wee profile flag shows you yourself are taking political stances and are just being predictably self righteous.. Ho hum.

roadmaster

The Kerry County Board must be using the Same QS firm that the HSE use if they think they can get a similar size new Fitzgerald Stadium build for €78 Million

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/sport/gaa/killarneys-fitzgerald-stadium-upgrade-will-cost-between-35m-and-78m-kerry-chairman-tells-delegates/a1312507880.html

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469622#Comment_121469622

Anyone who says anything like that clearly doesn't know anything about sport history or sport outside the British Isles.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470024#Comment_121470024

This is all starting to sound like the crazy pet project of of a maverick county board chairman.

spot555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468747#Comment_121468747

I seen a few months ago they've built a new handball building beside Croke Park, should hopefully get more people back playing.

raindodger

Kerry supporters used to get great glee in saying they would only travel for finals.Do they expect other counties to rush down to a white elephant for group games .

With the cork footballers in the doldrums there is no fixture which would warrent this build.

If you try and force people to go to a unsuitable venue they just wont go .Look at the trouble cork have at attracting any outside counties filled more often for other sports rather then the gaa.

If you got any kind of a cost benefit ratio done wonder would you find money better off spent on coaching and particpation projects other than vanity

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470276#Comment_121470276

That's just the handball version of Crime Park. It won't do anything for playing numbers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470282#Comment_121470282

Did you not hear that Killarney will get all of the biggest music acts. Elvis will be making a comeback just for Killarney.

raindodger

Elvis never died it was just fake news

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471304#Comment_121471304

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470463#Comment_121470463

Ah sure isn't the 'devil' buried in Killarney

Some say he was dead

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469551#Comment_121469551

Sure is. My old man used to support Bohs and I went there with him on occasion in the 70s. Now its like some sports wing of the Shinners or is it the Stickies... Would make a great GAA pitch though.😎

More realistically though I would like to see the waste ground around Richmond Barracks developed as a GAA club. Is it Barracks SQ? Anyhow everytime I go thru there it's a mess.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471511#Comment_121471511

It's housing both social and non-social going up around Richmond Barracks.

CrabRevolution

Kerry seem to be pitching hard for government/ central GAA funding, especially with the insistence on not getting into debt (not in itself a bad aim).

There's no way they'll get anywhere near €35 Million though, never mind almost €78 Million. With the topped up funds announced recently, GAA stadia are getting typically €6-8 Million. Even if in the next round of LSSIF funding they go mad and give Kerry double the highest award at €17 Million, who is going to make up the €20 Million+ shortfall?

The GAA are tightening up on wasteful stadium builds after having to bail out Páirc Uí Chaoimh (see the Louth stadium standoff during the summer, or their only mild enthusiasm for Casement), so they won't be throwing huge amounts of cash Kerry's way either.

The only way I see a €35 Million+ project in Killarney is if the Healy-Raes are propping up the next Government.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476923#Comment_121476923

You maybe on to something there I could easily see the Healy Ray Crew proping up the next government and as part of there demands a new Fitzgerald Stadium or a major upgrade. Its only recently Michael said the only job he has is to look after Kerry

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478175#Comment_121478175

Built using a Healy Are construction firm too if they got the money.

It really bugs me this "build it and they will come" attitude. It's just not true when you are talking about a sport as small as GAA. Kerry have a catchment of 150k and are not a prime neutral venue choice. A few concerts if they get them won't pay for that stadium.

Sometimes I think the Kerry crowd actually believe the "cute hoor" horsesht they feed the Yanks.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478192#Comment_121478192

The reason a stadiums might be viable in Kerry while not in more populated area is tge amount of accommodation in the area. It has the second most hotel accommodation to Dunlin and that is before you look at Holiday rentals

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478863#Comment_121478863

Still won't get enough gigs or events and the GAA don't factor in hotel space when choosing venues.

The recent expansion of the terraces in Killarney was an absolute waste of money. Outside of improving spectator facilities and comfort in the main stand Killarney needed no work.

Those plans are a chronic waste of money and if Kerry get the cash it can only be through corruption.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478863#Comment_121478863

I know you are local but would I be right in saying that around half of those beds are currently contracted to the government?

Not sure of figures but from memory there was about 6000 beds and now it's about 3000.

Regardless of any of that the plans I saw for Killarney are pie in the sky stuff.