GAA Infastructure

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457099#Comment_122457099

I'm not saying the GAA is sectarian. Im saying that casement and the argument about other codes playing there has sectarian baggage, you just need to look at the reaction from the protestant side to see that Casement is more devisive than unifying. Very few NI soccer fans want to head in to West Belfast to watch a match and plenty of locals won't want them there either. Rugby is less of an issue due to the demographics involved but as I mentioned earlier, Ulster have the ground they need already and it's too small for Irish games at 34k.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457360#Comment_122457360

The crowds will depend on the success of teams at that time. Remember that 27,633 attended an Ulster semi-final between Armagh and Derry in 2005 and 19,631 for the Armagh-Tyrone Dr McKenna Cup semi-final in 2006. These crowds included people living in Belfast who might not have travelled to more distant venue. With Armagh as All Ireland champions now and Derry thinking that they should be, such crowds are possible at present also.

The ambition has to be to get Antrim to some success and mobilise the crowds for them.

The city can also benefit from having a concert venue.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457576#Comment_122457576

So you are saying the Protestant bigots should prevent a stadium in West Belfast, which has less Protestants than Clones?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457576#Comment_122457576

You're looking at it very much from the loyalist viewpoint. The decision to build or not build casement should have nothing to do with pandering to them just because it may upset them. They hardliners are a big part of the reason it hasn't been built to date and shouldn't be listened to. Can you imagine the chances of the last upgrade of Windsor being cancelled because it would upset nationalists? Such nonsense.

More moderate unionists will have no issue with Casement and the GAA having a stadium just as rugby and soccer has. Casement won't cause division. Sports facilities do the opposite and if you think otherwise you havent been involved much in sport. The success of a growing GAA club in east Belfast shows that a lot of people have moved on from the nonsense of dragging politics into sport.

The demographics are changing all.the time. More and more protestants marrying catholics and younger generations are not being interested in the old tribal conflicts.

Westernview

100 %. Ulster football dominated all competitions this year and coaching standards are ahead of most counties in the south. Along with the Ulster final it is likely that semifinals and AI qualifers will be played there too when the bigger Ulster teams meet. Armagh Antrim and Down have large populations and the other big teams up there have sizeable populations and big support bases. The extra comfort of an all seater will attract extra supporters. So much potential to grow the games in a proper stadium.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457788#Comment_122457788

The decision to build or not build Casement has had nothing to do with pandering to Unionists. The issue is that NI has no money to fund the stadium so they have been trying to extract the money from an uninterested government in Westminster. The new Labour government use the project for some good soundbites and a "building bridges" narrative but are slashing budgets. There is less respect for Unionists on "the mainland" than there is on this island so they have had no influence.

The issue is the cost and the lack of potential returns. Neither of those are going to change favourably any time soon.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457814#Comment_122457814

All seater is more likely to turn people away. Also the location isn't going to attract people either.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458161#Comment_122458161

The GAA can configure the stadium with some terraces, e.g. 30,000 with seats or 34,000 with terraces at the end. But even if they do not there is no reason why a seat should turn anyone away, expect perhaps those that go to Clones to get pissed.

You keep talking about the location, what is wrong the location? There is a motorway at the end of the ground and a railway station 10 minutes walk away.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457788#Comment_122457788

Jesus, you don't even know what you're arguing for. One minute the bigots are going to provide some of the games to justify this 34k stadium and in the next breath you're saying they should be ignored and build it anyway. It's complete nonsense.

Antrim need a 10k if that. Ulster already have a provincial ground which is almost never full and now you want a 2nd which will cost millions per year to maintain. Croke Park costs over 13k per day just to keep it ticking along. Even if Casement is 1/3 of this you're still talking colossal money for a white elephant. UEFA, the IFA and IRFU won't absorb a penny of this but the GAA need to cover it regardless.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458216#Comment_122458216

Many people like the flexibility of terraces, being able to meet up with others without having to coordinate on tickets, moving away from people you find annoying, kids have a bit of freedom, not having the disruption of people moving to and from seats, etc. It is Casement which is designed around people getting pissed, with huge corporate and hospitality areas.

No use being beside a motorway if there is nowhere to park. How many trains serve the train station there on weekends and what percentage of Ulster is actually served by the rail lines? There is nothing there for the thousands of people either pre or post match. It is a terrible location.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458336#Comment_122458336

The terrace thing is not an issue

There will be room for 30,000 spectators when it first opens, rather than 34,500.
Rather than build a 34,500 capacity stadium with 26,000 seats and 8,500 standing, the plan is to initially make it all-seater. However, the plan is to increase the capacity after the Euro 2028 soccer tournament.

Transport is an issue everywhere, but Belfast has a substantial fleet of buses than can run to parking locations. How did 83,000 people get parked for the All Ireland final?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458150#Comment_122458150

That should be directed to threeball. He's the one linking a reasons not to build based on upsetting unionists.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458161#Comment_122458161

Breathtaking negativity as usual. Better to be standing in the rain in the rain than sitting under cover eh.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458243#Comment_122458243

Never said its for the bigots. It's for nationalists and moderate unionists and everyone in between .

Your anger towards the project is remarkable. Not sure how you'll cope when construction begins.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458417#Comment_122458417

Just another 10 million to repurpose the stadium after the Euros in that case. Shur what harm. Better to spend it on that than grassroots clubs in Antrim.

threeball

Not anger, just amazed by the idiocy of the whole thing.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458767#Comment_122458767

It is not going to cost 10 million, the stadium is designed with sections like this.

A capital budget is not available to spent on clubs in Antrim and why should Ulster money only be spent in Antrim anyway?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458417#Comment_122458417

I am aware of the plan to change the stadium after the Euros, I was responding to the claim that "the extra comfort of an all seater will attract extra supporters". It's just another example of the pros trotted out for the stadium not being based on reality.

83,000 people didn't have to get parked for the All Ireland final. People travel various ways to Croke Park, car, bus (both scheduled service and charter), Luas, train or a combination of those. The stadium is within walking distance of a main train and bus station and many city bus routes plus both Luas lines drop people within walking distance. Where is there parking for thousands of cars from which to run these buses?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458477#Comment_122458477

Breathtaking niavety as usual. Terraces and roofs are not mutually exclusive. And the location is terrible and isn't going to attract people.

Not believing that spending £300m on a stadium to host one game a year is a good idea is not negativity and believing it isn’t some kind of virtue.

roadmaster

Is the terracing for casement is it fixed longterm or is it going to be rail terracing?

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458967#Comment_122458967

It's gonna be built. You'll have to get over that fact.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459052#Comment_122459052

That is blatantly not a fact.

The stadium as currently has planning permission might be built but the chances of that are already low and diminish by the day. If the Euros gets ruled out, another, much smaller, version might eventually get built. No stadium getting built is also a possibility.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459189#Comment_122459189

Its amazing the energy some people put into negatively opposing things. I know you hope nothing is built but that sort of anti-progress mentality has held the north back for decades. But Labour will get it done.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459213#Comment_122459213

Nobody is opposing anything. The actual facts of the situation are that the stadium as designed will cost over £300m and will be filled at best a couple of times a year, events which already happen elsewhere. It will also have minimal spinoff economic benefits due to being situated between houses and a motorway on the edge of the city.

There are dozens of more worthwhile projects which could happen around NI, particularly given it's infrastructure deficit and the infrastructure it does have is mostly substandard. And it's not even the case that there is an allocation available only for Casement which can't be used for something else. There is no funds and they are begging the UK and Irish governments for the money, they'd have a much stronger case for something which would generate economic activity and returns.

I don't even see it benefiting the GAA. The Ulster final in Clones (or any big game really) is special because it takes over the town and generates a great atmosphere before and after the game when people can socialise. It won't even help Antrim GAA, they wont build a following playing in an empty stadium. The stadium will also struggle to cover its operating costs, look at the issues of PUC which has a couple of big games per year and has 30% more capacity to attract stadium tour acts.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122459793#Comment_122459793

Yeah...don't do it...do something else...what aboutery..negative negative, etc etc etc.

roadmaster

I see the Local reps in Monaghan are looking for 10 Million to upgrade clones. Considering construction costs at the moment that would only cover the proposed new entrance on the town side of the stadium i would say.

https://www.northernsound.ie/news/calls-to-prioritise-funding-for-st-tiernachs-park-241402

roadmaster

So accordding to various media today is the day for casement. Hopefully the announce the funding.

FrancieBrady

Sin é

https://twitter.com/AmandaFBelfast/status/1834657762170519921

Fr Tod Umptious

No bad harm.

No need for another white elephant.

Build something with a capacity more suited to Antrim and Ulster GAA.

Pete_Cavan

No surprise. In the week where the Finance Minister says the NI Executive has a several hundred million £ deficit, they were not going to get a couple of hundred million £ for a stadium that will hardly even get used.

Better for the GAA too to not have the millstone around it's neck.

The interesting part will be seeing where gets the games instead.

roadmaster

Heather Humpreys is already on the phone id say looking for that 50 million for clones

Larbre34

The games will just be added to the Dublin schedule.

The idea they would be reallocated to PUC in Cork, which would have a seated capacity of only about 22,000, is fanciful.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613269#Comment_122613269

Never mind the seating capacity it's not anywhere near the standard UEFA require.

The games will be distributed around the UK.

I don't think you could just move them to Dublin, logistically it may be difficult.

Boom__Boom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613269#Comment_122613269

Pretty sure I read a few months back that a UEFA source said the backup plan if Casement wasn't available that the games that were going to be in the North would be split among Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613214#Comment_122613214

Antrim may not need capacity, but Ulster GAA needs something bigger than the likes of the Athletic grounds, which may well be more or less full for several league games this season.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613348#Comment_122613348

Yes it does. Disappointing for NI not to get the Euros and the Tories are largely to blame for not progressing it. The GAA will still benefit though as it will almost certainly be built.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613348#Comment_122613348

Clones

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613269#Comment_122613269

They won't be added to Dublin. It will almost certainly mean another English stadium will be added.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613348#Comment_122613348

I think Ulster people are daft to want Clones over Belfast but it seems to be what they want so might as well build a small but high quality stadium in Belfast. Something like Ravenhill or Thomond Park that other small counties can use as a template for a modern GAA stadium.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614002#Comment_122614002

Media reports are that the Belfast games will be divided up between the other host venues with the Aviva getting 1 of the games.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614002#Comment_122614002

Clones is a great place to watch a game and its easier to get to for most people in the ulster counties.

The GAA really need to get some sort of template for any stadium rebuilds. Maybe take the plans of the new Louth Stadium or Tullamore and just roll that out for county ground redevlopment like they way we did housing and schools in the 50s.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614141#Comment_122614141

Stadio Bliss.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614002#Comment_122614002

Clones is great, only people who have never been and likely will never go there have an issue with it. Hopefully the GAA and Irish government will make funding available for a new stand there.

Antrim GAA can now look to get facilities which suit their needs, either on the Casement site or further improvement at Corrigan Park. This would be a much better outcome for Antrim GAA than the Casement white elephant.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614186#Comment_122614186

My issue isn't with Clones. I just prefer the big cities for the big games. I absolutely hate trips to Thurles which Im constantly told I have to love because of "tradition".

rrs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614224#Comment_122614224

More of an issue with parking in a City though Clones isn't great for parking. Parking in fields a few miles from the ground.

J Cheever Loophole

I'll be generous and say Clones has 'character'. I've lost count of the times I've been to Clones and indeed have enjoyed some great days out there. But let's face it. It is of its time. It has had no meaningful investment in over 30 years. 90% of the patrons are exposed to the elements. Access to the biggest part of the ground (in terms of capacity), the Hill, is via gravel covered walkways. The bulk of the seats are benches. It has had it's capacity reduced from 37,000 to a little over 28,000.

I accept that the dream of a truly modern GAA stadium appears to have now gone, but it does not mean that we as GAA patrons should continue to Put up with outdated facilities in the 21st Century. We should be demanding better.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614286#Comment_122614286

All does issues can easily be solved with money

J Cheever Loophole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614295#Comment_122614295

A very modern (UEFA standard) Casement Park could be built with money, but it ain't going to happen.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614286#Comment_122614286

It has had no meaningful investment in over 30 years.

Basically and only because the GAA has had it's eye on another prize.
Traffic management is not rocket science if the will is there but if the attitude is (as a Chair of the Ulster Council told me personally) 'I don't care how they get out as long as they get in' then no super shiny new stadium is going to solve the problems

J Cheever Loophole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614391#Comment_122614391

My concern Francie is only with the ground itself. Not even talking town facilities, parking or traffic management. St Tiernach's Park is really outdated and does not meet the needs of the modern era. The size and scale of any attempt to modernise it would be huge.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614439#Comment_122614439

Nothing in the region of 400 million.
400 million would revamp the town and surrounding villages too.😁