Taxi's refusing to take someone in a wheelchair

280special

I was in the Q for the taxis at Connolly station this evening when an Irish Rail guy appeared wheeling a woman in a chair and approached the taxis towards the middle of the q of taxis waiting. Two seperate taxis waved them away refusing to take her, presumably they didnt want the hassle of handling what they thought was a invalid. As it was she wasnt, looked like a leg or foot injury necessitating the use of a crutch.

Apart from what I view as being disgusting behaviour, does anyone know what the legal position is on this ? Are taxi drivers allowed to discriminate in this way ?

MagicMarker

Maybe it's an insurance issue? There are taxis available with wheelchair access.

If she had a crutch then why didn't she just get up out of the wheelchair?

phasers

Were they definitely wheelchair accessible taxis?

Alice1

I believe that they were entitled to refuse, if their taxis were not wheelchair accessible.

If she wishes to make a complaint, she would need the numbers of the taxis and then contact the Carriage Office.

Coriolanus

More likely they didn't want anyone "messin' wit de sisdem". They probably thought she should just get in the first one.

Mint Sauce

Were they set up to take a disabled person?

2qk4u

How do you know the Taxi's were wheelchair accessible ? and if they were then they can not refuse to take the fare.
Did you take their licence number and report it ?

Dotrel

Doesn't sound like the honest hardworking taxi drivers I know, who've always been prepared to go that extra mile .... when they realise you don't know the area.

Kevin Duffy

280special wrote: »

I was in the Q for the taxis at Connolly station this evening when an Irish Rail guy appeared wheeling a woman in a chair and approached the taxis towards the middle of the q of taxis waiting. Two seperate taxis waved them away refusing to take her, presumably they didnt want the hassle of handling what they thought was a invalid. As it was she wasnt, looked like a leg or foot injury necessitating the use of a crutch.

Apart from what I view as being disgusting behaviour, does anyone know what the legal position is on this ? Are taxi drivers allowed to discriminate in this way ?

So she was queue-jumping and going to the wrong taxis? Little wonder she was waved on to other cars.

2qk4u

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

So she was queue-jumping and going to the wrong taxis? Little wonder she was waved on to other cars.

She wasnt que jumping, the customer can choose any Taxi on the rank.

OPENROAD

irish-stew wrote: »

Were they set up to take a disabled person?

Shouldn't they all be really?

minidazzler

2qk4u wrote: »

How do you know the Taxi's were wheelchair accessible ? and if they were then they can not refuse to take the fare.
Did you take their licence number and report it ?

You'll get a few taxi drivers who "forgot" their ramps quite often. AFAIK they get a cheaper or free licences, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

phasers

2qk4u wrote: »

She wasnt que jumping, the customer can choose any Taxi on the rank.

I think they mean the wheelchair person skipped the queue of people.

minidazzler

phasers wrote: »

I think they mean the wheelchair person skipped the queue of people.

If it was a wheelchair taxi then it doesn't matter, people with disabilities have priority under certain regulations to get those taxi's.

280special

By the looks of it she couldnt walk very far, hence Irish Rail were doing a bit of good customer service by getting her down to the taxi rank with her travel bag.

It certainly wasnt anything to do with being fair to the guys at the head of the rank, there were plenty of us waiting for taxis so they were'nt stuck for business. From what i could see the taxis were quite capable of taking her, after all the Irish Rail guy wouldnt have tried to get her into the taxi if they werent. Dont know who she was so cant advise her on the complaint system ! This isnt the first time i have seen something like this, it appears to be down to an unwillingness to take on someone who might be a bit more difficult to get in and out.

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

She wasnt que jumping, the customer can choose any Taxi on the rank.

And the taxi man can wave her on, it's an unwritten rule among taxi men that they take their turn when accepting a fare.

2qk4u

phasers wrote: »

I think they mean the wheelchair person skipped the queue of people.

Wheelchair passengers get priority.

phasers

minidazzler wrote: »

If it was a wheelchair taxi then it doesn't matter, people with disabilities have priority under certain regulations to get those taxi's.

But this hasn't been established yet, and the OP went on to say the person in question could walk with a crutch. Slightly confusing.

Kevin Duffy

2qk4u wrote: »

She wasnt que jumping, the customer can choose any Taxi on the rank.

If the OP was already in a queue and she didn't join the queue, she was queue-jumping. I you queue-jump me and give me "the customer can choose any taxi" as an excuse, it will have to be a taxi that take pasengers suffering the disability of nosebleed.

Mint Sauce

OPENROAD wrote: »

Shouldn't they all be really?

If that was the case every taxi on the road would have to be a people carrier or mini bus type.

Saloon cars dont have any room for an occupied wheel chair.

dumbbell

surely she would just go in the van like taxi and not a car model ...

2qk4u

MagicMarker wrote: »

And the taxi man can wave her on, it's an unwritten rule among taxi men that they take their turn when accepting a fare.

No he cant, its an offence to refuse the fare. If you are last in a que and a customer gets into your car you have to take the job. Im well aware thet the unwritten rule exists but so do the real regulations.

phasers

This makes no sense to me. If she can walk with a crutch she could get into any taxi and put the chair in the boot, so why skip down the rank?

I might just be a bit dense though so ignore my rambling...

280special

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

So she was queue-jumping and going to the wrong taxis? Little wonder she was waved on to other cars.

No, it wasnt a Q jump and they didnt wave her up to the head of the Q, they just waved her away, if anything towards the taxis behind them.

But then maybe this attitude to someone with a disability or injury is to be expected in this great , friendly , helpfull country of ours.

280special

phasers wrote: »

But this hasn't been established yet, and the OP went on to say the person in question could walk with a crutch. Slightly confusing.

Cant see what the confusion is, this lady couldnt walk very far, she just about got into the taxi with help.

In the past I have seen plenty of more mobile people than that parking in disabled parking spaces...including some taxi drivers !

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

Wheelchair passengers get priority.

Why?

2qk4u

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why?

Because the Taxi Regulator said so.

flutered

during my sojourn in the u.s. inviladed people had priority for taxis, if some one with a stick/cane was in a qeue then they had priority, manys the time i seen blokes to stop women geting in a taxi and having the guy/gal with a stick 1st preference, i assume the war vets thing being the difference.

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

No he cant, its an offence to refuse the fare. If you are last in a que and a customer gets into your car you have to take the job. Im well aware thet the unwritten rule exists but so do the real regulations.

A taxi driver may not unreasonably refuse a fair, do you think a taxi driver asking a customer to use the taxi at the top of the rank is unreasonable? No taxi driver in the country would be punished for doing this.

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

Because the Taxi Regulator said so.

Link?

melekalikimaka

lads calm down surely this person can stand up for themselves.


<i'll get my coat>

minidazzler

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why?

There are only a few wheelchair taxi's around, even most minibuses can't take them, so if one comes along, wheelchair gets priority because who knows when the next one will be available. Also, regulations say something to that effect, taxi drivers don't get wheelchair taxi's out of the goodness of their hearts, AFAIK there are incentives. Not sure what they are though.

Mike 1972

MagicMarker wrote: »

Maybe it's an insurance issue? There are taxis available with wheelchair access.

Why in this day and age are all taxi's not wheelchair accessable ?

2qk4u

MagicMarker wrote: »

A taxi driver may not unreasonably refuse a fair, do you think a taxi driver asking a customer to use the taxi at the top of the rank is unreasonable? No taxi driver in the country would be punished for doing this.

Yes they would, its the regulations , Im not just making this up. Go have a read of this - http://taxiregulation.nationaltransport.ie/for-users/

minidazzler

MagicMarker wrote: »

Link?

http://taxiregulation.nationaltransport.ie/for-operators/spsv-vehicle-licensing/

MagicMarker

minidazzler wrote: »

There are only a few wheelchair taxi's around, even most minibuses can't take them, so if one comes along, wheelchair gets priority because who knows when the next one will be available. Also, regulations say something to that effect, taxi drivers don't get wheelchair taxi's out of the goodness of their hearts, AFAIK there are incentives. Not sure what they are though.

Oh that's fine, a wheelchair user getting priority to one of the few wheelchair accessible taxis is fine. But that's not what 2qk4u said, she/he said that that a wheelchair user gets priority in response to someone mentioning that maybe this woman skipped the queue of people, and it hasn't been determined that she approached a wheelchair accessible taxi.

2qk4u

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why in this day and age are all taxi's not wheelchair accessable ?

Because they are too expensive to buy.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why in this day and age are all taxi's not wheelchair accessable ?

Costs, I'd imagine.

280special

I know that in the past bus operators could not refuse to take someone unless they were a danger to themselves or other passengers...most times drunks were the only ones not allowed on ! Even were someone got on the bus and didnt have the money or refused to pay the fare the driver was obliged to take them to the next stop or town if it was in the country before getting them off the bus.

Surely if that is the case a Taxi cannot refuse a fare without just cause?


By the way, no one in the Q of passengers raised or voiced any objections, thankfully the attitudes of some on this forum might not be that commonplace.

j8wk2feszrnpao

2qk4u wrote: »

Yes they would, its the regulations , Im not just making this up. Go have a read of this - http://taxiregulation.nationaltransport.ie/for-users/

Reading that, then the taxi asking the user to use the taxi at the top wouldn't be unreasonable.

Mike 1972

280special wrote: »

I know that in the past bus operators could not refuse to take someone unless they were a danger to themselves or other passengers...most times drunks were the only ones not allowed on ! Even were someone got on the bus and didnt have the money or refused to pay the fare the driver was obliged to take them to the next stop or town if it was in the country before getting them off the bus.
.

How long ago are we talking about ?
It hasnt been the case for as I can remember and I seriously doubt it ever was.

Malachi Dead Yearbook wrote: »

Costs, I'd imagine.

Just how much does a wheelchair accessible vehicle cost ?

Surely making it mandatory for PSV's manufactured after a certain date would bring costs down through economies of scale ?

2qk4u

Malachi Dead Yearbook wrote: »

Reading that, then the taxi asking the user to use the taxi at the top wouldn't be unreasonable.

Its an offence and the driver will get a €250 fine .

Mat the trasher

http://taxiregulation.nationaltransport.ie/for-users/taxi-compliments-and-complaints/when-can-a-taxi-driver-refuse-service/

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

Its an offence and the driver will get a €250 fine .

Has a driver ever been fined for asking someone to use the taxi at the top of the rank?

280special

Mike 1972 wrote: »

How long ago are we talking about ?
It hasnt been the case for as I can remember and I seriously doubt it ever was.

It was the case in the late 80's as well as untill at least the late 90's. How do I know ? Because back then I was a regular, 5 day a week, traveller on a private coach, I remember at least three or four occasions when the driver cited the regs to various drunks or guys who were messing about, and a couple of other times when young lads thought they was being smart by saying they had no money. I also remember a Bus Eireann driver pulling in outside a Garda station, well short of our destination and late in the evening, when a guy refused to pay, gave him what sounded like a standard speel about refusal to pay and told him he could either get off or the boys in blue would do it for him.

280special

MagicMarker wrote: »

Has a driver ever been fined for asking someone to use the taxi at the top of the rank?

I imagine the driver could certainly ask, but cant refuse to take the fare themselves if their suggestion isnt taken up. Customer's have the right to choose whose services they use. After all if the lead driver was someone who you had a row with previously, wasnt a good driver, or who you felt overcharged you in the past you would hardly want to travel with them again ?

ilovesleep

Some people who are less abled and require a wheelchair can very much indeed walk for brief periods and would be able to go for example from a car to a doorstep. So the person in Dublin in the OP could very well be capable of sitting into the back of a car unaided and wheelchairs can fold up. Dispicable carry on from the taxi drivers.

j8wk2feszrnpao

2qk4u wrote: »

Malachi Dead Yearbook wrote: »

Reading that, then the taxi asking the user to use the taxi at the top wouldn't be unreasonable.

Its an offence and the driver will get a €250 fine .

Not based on the above link.
There was no definition of unreasonable, so doubt they'd be fined, tough to convict without witness/proof.

But I've no knowledge of the legislation, nor of this case (circumstances have not been fully explained).

bijapos

There seems to be some confusion here:

A "wheelchair accessible taxi" is one where you can physically get a wheelchair plus person into the taxi by means of a ramp or a lift. These are usually used by people in motorised wheelchairs as they are too heavy to lift into a boot or by people with such a disability as to make them get out of the wheelchair either very discomforting, dangerous or impossible. These are almost always some kind of converted MPV or van.

A standard wheelchair like you would see in a hospital can be literally folded in 5 seconds and put into the boot of any car. A taxi driver is obliged to accept this fare payer if they are capable of entering and leaving the taxi on their own without any assistance. If its a case of the passenger having to be lifted into the taxi, the driver can refuse this on health and safety grounds.

Presuming the woman was able to get out of the chair and into the taxi on her own the drivers were not allowed to refuse her.

If they mistakenly believed she was badly disabled and needed a wheelchair taxi they should either have made the effort to inform her of this or shown something that wasn't ignorance and offered to get the radio operator to get a wheelchair accesible taxi for her.

I was in a wheelchair for about 6 weeks some time ago (damaged leg and broken wrist) and the ignorance of taxi drivers here was probably the worst thing I had at the time. It was before mobile phones so it wasn't as if I could ring a certain driver in advance to come and pick me up.

Either way in this case the taxi drivers should have accepted her and they are in the wrong.

LighterGuy

Hmmm,
I dont know what to make of this story (as in whats at play) I'm picturing it in my head as I know the Connolly Station rank. Like where these taxis who refused 6 seaters or regular taxis?

Was it the taxi drivers being dicks by refusing out of 'hassle' (hassle = them being lazy bastards fearing they might have to help) or was it because they were just following rank etiquette and refusing because they werent the first in the que?

Or is it because there are disabled taxi rules? .. that a normal taxi cannot pick up a disabled person officially (while lets be honest, many a normal taxi probably would but in a rank they might not be so open to then because of the other taxis around?)

Capt'n Midnight

When did Dublin get the first wheelchair accessible taxi's ?

Point is that before that ALL wheelchairs would have to go in the boot anyway.

While it a taxi can refuse on reasonable grounds, since it is illegal to discriminate based on disabilities you can't call that reasonable grounds.