SUMO vc Conventional

the drifter

So...from a strength building point of view....what are the main differences from pulling sumo over conv. why change at all? is it worth cycling in some sumo pulls every now and then?

Da Za

I've tried sumo once or twice in training, just warming up so I'm no expert. Afaik it'll strengthen your hips and hamstrings immensely. It may be very beneficial to add in, in a post comp cycle or an off season cycle.

Less distance travelled equates to more weight lifted, generally but technique plays a major role for sumo pulling. Nothing worse than seeing an awful looking sumo pull.

VIS and COH will have plenty to add to this, as they've both lifted sumo in competition.

d'Oracle

I prefer Sumo, but my hip doesn't want me doing them.

Much less demanding on your lower back, much more demanding on your hip muscles.

But I have yet to get any idea of how one affects the other.
I think Kevpants recommends doing them.

the drifter

I think when i go back doing some strength training ill give it a go.its not as if im going to be moving massive numbers :P

Hanley

I don't like them, and I don't really buy that they bring your hips into it to any great extent, certainly they don't for most people I see pulling sumo, especially raw.

Most people you see pull sumo raw just end up wide stance SLDL'n it. Obviously there's good guys who don't do that, before anyone posts links to prove me wrong.

The other funny thing with em is that up to 80ish% they can look beautiful and move much faster than conventional DLs, but once you start to push the way suddenly tekkers falls apart and the bar stays stuck to the floor.

I think they're a nice break, but I think ultimately most people will be stronger conventional.

the drifter

I was thinking that about the SLDL type pull in sumo stance as well. From being at the worlds a lot of lifters seem to end up that ya...and others were almost in a bottom of squat position when starting

d'Oracle

When I was taught how to do them, I was told two things above all.

1) You have to drive your traps back and hips through from the start (i.e. don't stiff leg them).
2) They will be slow off the floor when they get heavy.

I found them to be true in my limited experience.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

When I was taught how to do them, I was told two things above all.

1) You have to drive your traps back and hips through from the start (i.e. don't stiff leg them).
2) They will be slow off the floor when they get heavy.

I found them to be true in my limited experience.

That's good advice.

kevpants

I think raw sumos are great. I've done them every 10 days or so for a few months now and haven't pulled convo off the floor in all that time.

My max sumo has gone from 225kg to 242.5kg as of last night. My best ever convo pull was 250kg. I also managed to pull 270 from below the knee conventional out of the rack last week.

Hanley you're right most people's hips pop up and it turns into an SLDL but a funny thing happens with plently of practice the bar gets seriously quick off the floor. That 242.5kg pull flew up over my knees and it took ages to lock out, completely at odds with 3 or 4 months ago when max lifts just sat there looking at me.

For me pulling convo just injured me all the time. This is a lot to do with my imbalances etc but anyone who spends a lot of time on a couch or office chair is going to have hip/glute issues and I think sumo pulling is a good way to up your deadlift and not constanly overtrain your lower back.

Every pulling session now consists of working up to 90%+ on sumo followed by working up to 90%+ below the knee convo from the rack then abs. Adding weight every week and crucially I'm not injured!

the drifter

i actually tried some over on morton last night....to some very strange looks from an oly coach, I like them and will look to work them in when i do go back doing some strength work in 3kg time :P

Scuba Ste

Ah that was you in Morton last night, I was snatching on the other platform.

Had a feeling you might be a baordsie when you were doing sumo deads. The number of people in Morton that lift in converse or do sumo deads is surprisingly low.

BrianD3

I've been doing sumo deadlifts - with both a moderate and a wide stance - for 8 years and apart from the occasional groin niggle I've never injured myself with them. In contrast I've had several SI episodes from conv. pulling. Even if I never injure myself again in the conv. pull I'll probably have lingering doubts about injuring myself which affects confidence and could limit my 1RM.

One thing I've found with sumos is I can "lose my groove" and suddenly "forget" how to do them. Something that that seems to reduce this is switching my mixed grip each session - right under/left over one session then and left under/right over the next etc.

PS my sumo deadlift 1 RM is nearly double my squat 1 RM :eek: So while the sumo deadlift might strengthen the hips etc. I've found no carryover to the squat.

Hanley

Have you got REALLY f*cking long arms by any chance Brian?

BrianD3

Hanley wrote: »

Have you got REALLY f*cking long arms by any chance Brian?

They're long alright not sure if they'd be classed as really long - my arm span is about 6 foot 1 while my height is 5 foot 9.5

Long arms + sumo stance = short ROM! Even so and even assuming my squat form is far from optimal, I think I should be able to manage to squat more than 50% of my deadlift.

COH

BrianD3 wrote: »

They're long alright not sure if they'd be classed as really long - my arm span is about 6 foot 1 while my height is 5 foot 9.5

Long arms + sumo stance = short ROM! Even so and even assuming my squat form is far from optimal, I think I should be able to manage to squat more than 50% of my deadlift.

Simple maths - your a male, height - 5 foot 9.5, arm span 6 foot 1, multiplied by the square root of lift more, carry the four...

Yeah, you're squatting like a girl!

Sport science.