Fear of actions.

ps3man

Ok here is a little background on this post and I will try explain the title.

Was leaving the tax office today off O'Connell Street. Outside there was in plain sight a drug deal going down which was witnessed by a ban garda on her own.

She approached the dealer who was by the looks of it, high on his own supply. He became hostile and despite the Ban Garda having her baton out, he attempted to hit her. In my view and If I was the garda I would have hit him with the baton. He was hostile and aggresive towards the Ban garda, he was also a good foot taller than her. The Ban Garda was hesitant in using her baton but she has every justifiable reason to do so. Should she have hit him? He ran away and whether he was caught or not I dont know.

Did she not hit him for fear of the consequences of doing so? (sued for misuse etc.)

What should she do? Or should have done?

stimpson

ps3man wrote: »

O

What should she do? Or should have done?

Call the guards.

chin_grin

Oh great a literal garda bashing thread!

im invisible

junkie bashing thread...

Teyla Emmagan

We haven't had Ban Gardai for about 10 years OP!

congress3

Smack the sh1te outta him

John Doe1

Should have asked him "Do you like bread cos imma gonna give you this knuckle sandwich" then Boom

hondasam

ps3man wrote: »

Ok here is a little background on this post and I will try explain the title.

Was leaving the tax office today off O'Connell Street. Outside there was in plain sight a drug deal going down which was witnessed by a ban garda on her own.

She approached the dealer who was by the looks of it, high on his own supply. He became hostile and despite the Ban Garda having her baton out, he attempted to hit her. In my view and If I was the garda I would have hit him with the baton. He was hostile and aggresive towards the Ban garda, he was also a good foot taller than her. The Ban Garda was hesitant in using her baton but she has every justifiable reason to do so. Should she have hit him? He ran away and whether he was caught or not I dont know.

Did she not hit him for fear of the consequences of doing so? (sued for misuse etc.)

What should she do? Or should have done?

plenty of cctv in the area, he would have been seen on camera, Ban Garda is no longer used.
If he hit her would you have done anything?

Gee Bag

ps3man wrote: »

She approached the dealer who was by the looks of it, high on his own supply. He became hostile and despite the Ban Garda having her baton out, he attempted to hit her. In my view and If I was the garda I would have hit him with the baton. He was hostile and aggresive towards the Ban garda, he was also a good foot taller than her. The Ban Garda was hesitant in using her baton but she has every justifiable reason to do so. Should she have hit him? He ran away and whether he was caught or not I dont know.

Sounds like she was on her own, against a much bigger lad, who was off his tits. Pretty reasonable of her not to want to take a hiding over a small drug deal.

TheZohanS

You could have came to the garda's assistance OP. Gardai can't use their batons unless there is, or they believe there to be, a serious threat to their safety or the safety of others AFAIK.

arybvtcw0eolkf

'Fight, flight or freeze'

Sounds like the banner frozen, or thought for a second - 'wait, I'm not going to jail for no dirty pox of a junkie'.

She probably know's his face, in which case I hope he gets his come 'uppence from her work mates some dark evening.

flutterflye

This isn't the same thing.
But I used to volunteer with the ISPCC.
We'd go around the streets of Dublin and engage with minors, some of whom would be with parents or other adults.
We always had to go in pairs, and if there was any threat to our own safety, we had to leave immediately.

I'm just thinking, maybe there is a similar protocol with guards?
Maybe if she were to have hit him, he could have gone ape sh1t and attacked her, or called over some of his mates or something? And maybe they aren't supposed to antagonise, only defend, especially when alone?

This is all just me guessing though.
I have no idea.

ps3man

There were taxi drivers from the rank there assisting. I could have tried to help but there was no difference I could have made. Other gardai were on the scene chasing him seconds later.. My question is whether she should have hit him, he attempted to hit her and threatened her safety. Fully justifiable

ps3man

Gee Bag wrote: »

Sounds like she was on her own, against a much bigger lad, who was off his tits. Pretty reasonable of her not to want to take a hiding over a small drug deal.

They were hand to hand, she tried not to use her baton. In terms of self defence the baton was the most reasonable thing to use given the circunstances. She just totally hesistated to use it..

Eathrin

Would I be right in saying she should have attempted to arrest and should he resist then use force?

Gee Bag

ps3man wrote: »

They were hand to hand, she tried not to use her baton. In terms of self defence the baton was the most reasonable thing to use given the circunstances. She just totally hesistated to use it..

In that case I go with Makikomi, she thought about the consequnces or froze for a second.

IMO she would have been well within her rights to club him like a Canadian would a baby seal, but then I'm not the Garda Ombudsman!

hondasam

ps3man wrote: »

There were taxi drivers from the rank there assisting. I could have tried to help but there was no difference I could have made. Other gardai were on the scene chasing him seconds later.. My question is whether she should have hit him, he attempted to hit her and threatened her safety. Fully justifiable

ps3man wrote: »

They were hand to hand, she tried not to use her baton. In terms of self defence the baton was the most reasonable thing to use given the circunstances. She just totally hesistated to use it..

She choose not to use the baton, considering she had assistance seconds later she did the right thing.
There was no need to hit him. your story is not really making sense.

I don't think the banner froze, more likely she knew him, knew he was harmless.

Oranage2

Honestly, give her a break,She was on her own and probably just didnt was to have a few bruises for coppers on the Saturday.

Also you never know what Junkies have so it's probably best not to engage on her own, cant see much wrong really -

jester77

If she saw the deal then surely she could have cuffed him and radioed in for a unit to pick him up? If he resisted then it would be baton time. (Don't know the law here, but surely that must be allowed?)

Eathrin

Hey at least she engaged him, I've seen many gardaí turn their backs, very literally, on people engaging in illegal activity in the city centre.

ps3man

Cian A wrote: »

Would I be right in saying she should have attempted to arrest and should he resist then use force?

That was what she tried to do, in doing so he became aggresive and violent towards her..

I have seen this fella and others mug people including myself in and around the talbot street area on a few occasions in the past couple of years. They are the scum of the earth and dont give a breeze what they do. If the gardai have batons to defend themselfs with then they should use them (not lighlty obviously)

A broken arm from one of these would make him think twice about thinking he is above the law.. I sound awfully aggressive but I have been mugged and threatened by these scumbags, they have the cheek to think they can do what they like, steal what they like and assault who they want and tbh a taste of their own medicine works a lot better than a night in pearse street.

Rant over

ps3man

hondasam wrote: »

She choose not to use the baton, considering she had assistance seconds later she did the right thing.
There was no need to hit him. your story is not really making sense.

I don't think the banner froze, more likely she knew him, knew he was harmless.

he tried to hit her though? And backup might be too late if he pulls something out of his pocket.. stabvest or not

biko

At least it's a not another "omg the gaarda bate the ****e out of some poor man today" thread.
Continue

m2c, she'll see him again. Junkies can't stay away.
Maybe next time there'll be 2 garda, hilarity will ensue.

stovelid

He was clearly an undercover operative and the tiff was enacted for your beneift to compenstate her blowing his cover.

MagicSean

This is a knock on consequence of the ridiculous sentences given to the Gardai a few weeks back. Hardly unexpected.

hondasam

ps3man wrote: »

he tried to hit her though? And backup might be too late if he pulls something out of his pocket.. stabvest or not

It's still no reason to hit him, you wanted her to hit him then the thread would be different.
Gardai put up with this ****e every day, if they were to hit everyone the ombudsman would be real busy.

hondasam

MagicSean wrote: »

This is a knock on consequence of the ridiculous sentences given to the Gardai a few weeks back. Hardly unexpected.

Completely different situation. They were guilty of assault as was seen on cctv.

MagicSean

hondasam wrote: »

Completely different situation. They were guilty of assault as was seen on cctv.

CCTV can't prove assault, it can only show the physical act. It's a matter of one word against another when it comes to the rest of the proof.

ps3man

hondasam wrote: »

It's still no reason to hit him, you wanted her to hit him then the thread would be different.
Gardai put up with this ****e every day, if they were to hit everyone the ombudsman would be real busy.

If physical assault doesn't constitiute a genuine reason for the garda to react with force.. what does?

Your right though I did want her to hit him. From what I saw it would have been the right thing to do.

hondasam

MagicSean wrote: »

CCTV can't prove assault, it can only show the physical act. It's a matter of one word against another when it comes to the rest of the proof.

They were found guilty, it was captured on cctv, was it not?

ps3man wrote: »

If physical assault doesn't constitiute a genuine reason for the garda to react with force.. what does?

Your right though I did want her to hit him. From what I saw it would have been the right thing to do.

What would she have gained by hitting him? there was no need.

ps3man

hondasam wrote: »

They were found guilty, it was captured on cctv, was it not?



What would she have gained by hitting him? there was no need.

He may not have been able to make a runner? Would think twice about thinking he was above the law? The Ban Garda just trying to defend herself is the one that comes to mind for me..

parrai

ps3man wrote: »

Was leaving the tax office today off O'Connell Street. Outside there was in plain sight a drug deal going down which was witnessed by a ban garda on her own.

She approached the dealer who was by the looks of it, high on his own supply. He became hostile and despite the Ban Garda having her baton out, he attempted to hit her. In my view and If I was the garda I would have hit him with the baton. He was hostile and aggresive towards the Ban garda, he was also a good foot taller than her. He ran away and whether he was caught or not I dont know.

ps3man wrote: »

The Ban Garda was hesitant in using her baton but she has every justifiable reason to do so.

hondasam wrote: »

She choose not to use the baton, considering she had assistance seconds later she did the right thing.

As the you have said in your original post (bold) she used her common sense in the situation, she was on her own, she waited until she had help...

Saila

this thread is starting to sound like "a scumbag mugged me once, I saw him today getting into trouble with the cops.........I so wanted the garda to hit him to make me feel better :mad:"

ps3man

Saila wrote: »

this thread is starting to sound like "a scumbag mugged me once, I saw him today getting into trouble with the cops.........I so wanted the garda to hit him to make me feel better :mad:"

There is an element of that alright.. But Is fear or reppercussions hampering the Gardas effort to police the streets?

MagicSean

hondasam wrote: »

They were found guilty, it was captured on cctv, was it not?

Yeah but I don't think your understanding what I'm saying. The same cctv could have been used to prove them innocent if their version of what was said was believed. Proof of the physical act is rarely the issue in a trial for assault.

hondasam

MagicSean wrote: »

Yeah but I don't think your understanding what I'm saying. The same cctv could have been used to prove them innocent if their version of what was said was believed. Proof of the physical act is rarely the issue in a trial for assault.

I know what you'r saying, without the proof they probably would have been believed and got off.

MagicSean

hondasam wrote: »

I know what you'r saying, without the proof they probably would have been believed and got off.

Obviously you don't know what I'm saying.

suicide_circus

jester77 wrote: »

If she saw the deal then surely she could have cuffed him and radioed in for a unit to pick him up? If he resisted then it would be baton time. (Don't know the law here, but surely that must be allowed?)

STOP!
Baton time, do dodo do, da do do do...

Chinasea

Her feeble attempts are a mere wasted drop in the heroin ocean that are damned city is drowing in.


so much drugs in this country you could shake a baton factory at them.