He's right on this....."scrap the childen allowance" says O'Leary.

tayto lover

Why are some posters suggesting that the children of alcoholics, scumbags, runaway fathers etc etc should suffer because of the circumstances they found themselves born into ?
There should always be help for these kind of unfortunate children and even M.O'L suggests that. BUT some posters are using the discussion to have a go at the ills of society and using the plight of unfortunate children to do so. The children had NO say into what kind of circumstances they were born into.
On the other-hand there are many decent families who use this welcome money wisely and their children always benefit from it. They are suffering from job losses, mortgage troubles and genuine poverty. Not all or even many parents are druggies, alcoholics and scumbags. They have their children's welfare at heart.
Perhaps the money being given to the children of problem parents could be distributed differently, through social services or in the form of vouchers, to sort out the problem. It might work but might also cause another type of stigma for the already stigmatized children.
However it's done it will not suit certain types of posters on here as they love a rant and a chance to say "why should I have to pay". It wouldn't surprise me to see a thread on here complaining about the amount of money that is spent on Special Needs children. Some people are just whingers and don't know how lucky they are. The rant is more important to them than the purpose.

stovelid

These threads = moron bait.

seanmc1980

It baffles me the sense of entitlement a large portion of Irish society has. The expectation that the state should in some way contribute to the raising of YOUR child is ludicrous.
The social welfare in this country has gone out of hand because of the “buy a vote” politics of FF over the past 10 years.
20billion folks. That’s what it cost Ireland in social welfare every year.
Put that into context at the moment there are 1.8m people working in the state. That works out at over 11k per working person.
Scrap the childrens allowance all together its not my problem you squirt out kids you can’t afford and expect me to pay for them, your house, you drink and your fags. And while you’re at it cut the dole, limit the medical card, rent allowance and all the other ****e that’s costing the honest tax payer 11k a year to fund.
Its time to get back to basics guys, you pay your own way in life and shouldn’t have a expectation that the state will pick up the bill.

daithimacgroin

scrap child benefit now and in 30 years all the knackers will be gone!

Hells Belle

seanmc1980 wrote: »

It baffles me the sense of entitlement a large portion of Irish society has. The expectation that the state should in some way contribute to the raising of YOUR child is ludicrous.
The social welfare in this country has gone out of hand because of the “buy a vote” politics of FF over the past 10 years.
20billion folks. That’s what it cost Ireland in social welfare every year.
Put that into context at the moment there are 1.8m people working in the state. That works out at over 11k per working person.
Scrap the childrens allowance all together its not my problem you squirt out kids you can’t afford and expect me to pay for them, your house, you drink and your fags. And while you’re at it cut the dole, limit the medical card, rent allowance and all the other ****e that’s costing the honest tax payer 11k a year to fund.
Its time to get back to basics guys, you pay your own way in life and shouldn’t have a expectation that the state will pick up the bill.

Stupid is as stupid posts.

Try and get a couple of facts right before you post drivel like this, also drinking/drugging at 11am is not acceptable. Come back when you've sobered up.

My name is URL

seanmc1980 wrote: »

It baffles me the sense of entitlement a large portion of Irish society has. The expectation that the state should in some way contribute to the raising of YOUR child is ludicrous.
The social welfare in this country has gone out of hand because of the “buy a vote” politics of FF over the past 10 years.
20billion folks. That’s what it cost Ireland in social welfare every year.
Put that into context at the moment there are 1.8m people working in the state. That works out at over 11k per working person.
Scrap the childrens allowance all together its not my problem you squirt out kids you can’t afford and expect me to pay for them, your house, you drink and your fags. And while you’re at it cut the dole, limit the medical card, rent allowance and all the other ****e that’s costing the honest tax payer 11k a year to fund.
Its time to get back to basics guys, you pay your own way in life and shouldn’t have a expectation that the state will pick up the bill.

I wish there was some agreement that one could sign which precludes them from paying any tax whatsoever. The stipulation being that if you sign up, then you are entitled to absolutely no state or social services or protections. I wonder how eager the rabble rousers would be if that were an option.

seanmc1980

Ah middle class "working class hero" is see. please tell me why is the crazy premise of getting a job and paying for your own children "stupid is as stupid does"!

bamboozle

bottom line is the state is paying out close to 2 billion on children's allowance each year, lots of people need it, many people dont, this expense needs to be overhauled to ensure those who need support receive it and those who dont are excluded.

seanmc1980

hells bells, see link for soical welfare cost

http://crimson-observer.blogspot.com/2010/01/irelands-soaring-social-welfare-bill.html

seanmc1980

bamboozle wrote: »

bottom line is the state is paying out close to 2 billion on children's allowance each year, lots of people need it, many people dont, this expense needs to be overhauled to ensure those who need support receive it and those who dont are excluded.

its actually closer to 4 bill for 2011

Hannibal Smith

I'd hate if they did away with it. There's no legitimate argument to say why everyone should get it, but it does help out a lot. The constitution is very much a promotion of the family and an encouragement to protect the family, and on the back of that the State look after children pretty well. My son had to get glasses last month and the state paid for them!

But there's a lot of people who's child benefit doesn't go on the children. So I think if parents were being honest, yes it would be a killer to lose the child benefit...but do you really need it?

seanmc1980

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I'd hate if they did away with it. There's no legitimate argument to say why everyone should get it, but it does help out a lot. The constitution is very much a promotion of the family and an encouragement to protect the family, and on the back of that the State look after children pretty well. My son had to get glasses last month and the state paid for them!

and when you say state you actually mean me and other tax payers. Why can't you pay for your own son glasses?

Hells Belle

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Ah middle class "working class hero" is see. please tell me why is the crazy premise of getting a job and paying for your own children "stupid is as stupid does"!

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the ignorance of the comment of "squirting" out children you can't afford and spending the money on fags and drink. That's insulting and degrading. I work full time and pay my fair share of taxes.

We had our kids when we both had full time jobs. We, like most, didn't know there was a recession coming. I've taken a 17% pay cut, partner lost his job and gets €65 pw while on his 4th course. We don't get rent allowance, mortgage interest relief (thank god we have a small mortgage though), medical card, FIS, BTSA or any of the other things because I work full time for little over min wage. Last month we ran out of money and had to have sandwiches for dinner for 3 days. This is the reality.

The childrens allowance allows us to light the fire when it gets cold and maybe if we are good turn the oil on for an hour.

Idiots should get their facts right before trying to start a flame war.

Hells Belle

seanmc1980 wrote: »

hells bells, see link for soical welfare cost

http://crimson-observer.blogspot.com/2010/01/irelands-soaring-social-welfare-bill.html

I don't know who is getting these payments but families like mine certainly are not.

On the flip side my boss earns €150,000 per year plus every benefit going and gets €700 per month C/A. You all pay for her pension too btw.

Anytime anyone mentions means testing its "ooh its so expensive" which translates in my head as "turkeys don't vote for Christmas". If they can means test JSB and Med cards why not CA?????

Hannibal Smith

seanmc1980 wrote: »

and when you say state you actually mean me and other tax payers. Why can't you pay for your own son glasses?

Well I didn't think it was a distinction that needed clarifying, I think it's obvious to everyone the state = tax payer (which includes me btw)

I never said I couldn't...the state give you the money for them. And before you question my reasons for daring to accept the payment... I've worked full time all my life, as has my husband and paid our taxes so I feel justified in putting my hand in the kitty every once in a while.

seanmc1980

Hells Belle wrote: »

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the ignorance of the comment of "squirting" out children you can't afford and spending the money on fags and drink. That's insulting and degrading. I work full time and pay my fair share of taxes.

I'm sorry if i came across as insulting but lets get real about things. at present a large section of young women see the welfare system as their career path. "get yourself sort" have you ever heard a mother saying this to her teenager. means get pregnant. its so prevelant in ireland its a joke.

Hells Belle wrote: »

We had our kids when we both had full time jobs. We, like most, didn't know there was a recession coming. I've taken a 17% pay cut, partner lost his job and gets €65 pw while on his 4th course. We don't get rent allowance, mortgage interest relief (thank god we have a small mortgage though), medical card, FIS, BTSA or any of the other things because I work full time for little over min wage. Last month we ran out of money and had to have sandwiches for dinner for 3 days. This is the reality.

The childrens allowance allows us to light the fire when it gets cold and maybe if we are good turn the oil on for an hour.

Idiots should get their facts right before trying to start a flame war.

I sympathise with you plight and its never nice to lose your job but in reality there's plenty of work out there if your prepared to work. i myself have my full time job which like you i've take a 15% cut over the last 2 yrs. to combat this i have adjusted my spending and set up small money making ventures to bring me back up to the level of income i'm accustomed to

Hells Belle wrote: »

I don't know who is getting these payments but families like mine certainly are not.

On the flip side my boss earns €150,000 per year plus every benefit going and gets €700 per month C/A. You all pay for her pension too btw.

Anytime anyone mentions means testing its "ooh its so expensive" which translates in my head as "turkeys don't vote for Christmas". If they can means test JSB and Med cards why not CA?????

So your agreeing with me, all these state payments to people should be scrapped?
your boss more than likely pays about 50k tax a year into the coffers of the state thats equates to 5 people in reciept of social welfare, wouldn't it be better if this money was used in schools as opposed to paying for Jasinta and her mates holiday in Santa ponza

seanmc1980

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Well I didn't think it was a distinction that needed clarifying, I think it's obvious to everyone the state = tax payer (which includes me btw)

I never said I couldn't...the state give you the money for them. And before you question my reasons for daring to accept the payment... I've worked full time all my life, as has my husband and paid our taxes so I feel justified in putting my hand in the kitty every once in a while.

Sorry but its not the sates job to pay for your kids glasses no matter how much tax you paid over you life. its your job as a parent to do this. i can see why you did it, the system is there to be used but its fundamentally wrong

Plazaman

seanmc1980 wrote: »

its actually closer to 4 bill for 2011

€2.1 billion. Just typing a higher figure won't mean it's true, let Google be your friend in research

Child benefit represents 10 per cent of all Department of Social Protection expenditure. It is estimated that close to €2.1 billion will be spent on the entitlement this year. The monthly rate, for first and second children, is €140 a child. The benefit has been cut in the last two budgets.

SOURCE

To means test every family in the Country in order to sort out who is entitled to Child Benefit and who is not, is currently a non runner. Having previously worked with application forms and mailshots, dealing with 4000 responses requires an army of staff and if you want it done quickly (i.e. within a fortnight) overtime. Now imagine 400,000 responses, not just responses but financial assessments, it'd take the guts of a full year to complete and cost more than it would save I'd imagine.

Could computerise it - lotto style sheets, tick you're income bracket but you'll be relying on the honesty of the respondants. Could outsource it to a private company but then sit back and watch the unions go ballistic.

Hells Belle

Sean sorry but I've never ever heard anyone say "get yourself sorted" and I'm most certainly not from a middle class area.

As to adjusting my spending, how can you adjust nothing??.....I'm very happy you could afford a "venture". I had a "venture" once called emigration which has been put on the long finger because I can't save for the airfare.

I do agree that state payments should be scrapped or reduced for some but a blanket scrapping or reducing just isn't fair, but then again when is Ireland ever fair to normal working people.

And there you go again about Jacinta and her holidays, do you have any links to back this up?

seanmc1980

Plazaman wrote: »

€2.1 billion. Just typing a higher figure won't mean it's true, let Google be your friend in research.

my mistake i was read post wrong i though it said total social welfare cost for children which was 15.7% of 21.5b for 2009.

Plazaman wrote: »

To means test every family in the Country in order to sort out who is entitled to Child Benefit and who is not, is currently a non runner. Having previously worked with application forms and mailshots, dealing with 4000 responses requires an army of staff and if you want it done quickly (i.e. within a fortnight) overtime. Now imagine 400,000 responses, not just responses but financial assessments, it'd take the guts of a full year to complete and cost more than it would save I'd imagine.

Could computerise it - lotto style sheets, tick you're income bracket but you'll be relying on the honesty of the respondants. Could outsource it to a private company but then sit back and watch the unions go ballistic.

Yes it would be crazy to means test it. as i said before do away with it all together and introduce a system where people pay for their own chidren. its crazy i know.

Hells Belle

Plazaman wrote: »

€2.1 billion. Just typing a higher figure won't mean it's true, let Google be your friend in research



SOURCE

To means test every family in the Country in order to sort out who is entitled to Child Benefit and who is not, is currently a non runner. Having previously worked with application forms and mailshots, dealing with 4000 responses requires an army of staff and if you want it done quickly (i.e. within a fortnight) overtime. Now imagine 400,000 responses, not just responses but financial assessments, it'd take the guts of a full year to complete and cost more than it would save I'd imagine.

Could computerise it - lotto style sheets, tick you're income bracket but you'll be relying on the honesty of the respondants. Could outsource it to a private company but then sit back and watch the unions go ballistic.

Do revenue not know how much people make? You earn over say €60k*, you don't get it. Simples

*random figure before I get tore apart.

Hannibal Smith

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Sorry but its not the sates job to pay for your kids glasses no matter how much tax you paid over you life. its your job as a parent to do this. i can see why you did it, the system is there to be used but its fundamentally wrong

I don't believe I was asking for your approval

I presume you don't claim tax back on anything? Nor will you at any stage in the future?

seanmc1980

Hells Belle wrote: »

Sean sorry but I've never ever heard anyone say "get yourself sorted" and I'm most certainly not from a middle class area.

Well i have on numberous occasions on public transport over heard the mother discussing these exact thing, and the funny thing is i have to pay for their bus fare!!

Hells Belle wrote: »

As to adjusting my spending, how can you adjust nothing??.....I'm very happy you could afford a "venture". I had a "venture" once called emigration which has been put on the long finger because I can't save for the airfare.

my venture's cost nothing to set up. i have 2 side's on the go at the moment. 1 is my area of expertise ( accounting) i do books for family members and friends it cost me no more than a couple of hours a week. I teach guitar 1 night a week.
I've had in the past website's which re-sold items, cost nothing, you basically you act as a middle man between the orderer and the compnay selling the product.
So a bit of iniative from people would go a long way in getting some extra income at no cost

Hells Belle wrote: »

I do agree that state payments should be scrapped or reduced for some but a blanket scrapping or reducing just isn't fair, but then again when is Ireland ever fair to normal working people.

Life isn't fair hells, but you have to get on with it and not blame other people. there's a lot of money to be made out there and blaming the "elete class" for ****ting or the "REAL" working people is just a cop out

Hells Belle wrote: »

And there you go again about Jacinta and her holidays, do you have any links to back this up?

go to dublin airpot in the summer, all the back up you need.

Dudess

Working people get children's allowance so I don't get what the "Don't have kids if you can't afford them" stuff is about.

Well I don't understand why anyone would come out with that monumentally stupid line in any context, but there you go...

Wompa1

What I don't get is the people saying don't you know how much it costs to have a kid, you're being ignorant etc.

If the alternative is to means test people then isn't that similar to what he is saying?

Do away with it and have it replaced by a Child Benefit that people apply for. Why should anyone be entitled to money just for having a kid? Because it's expensive?...why is that the tax payers problem? Why do people who may never have kids paying towards other peoples kids?

Galtee

Wompa1 wrote: »

What I don't get is the people saying don't you know how much it costs to have a kid, you're being ignorant etc.

If the alternative is to means test people then isn't that similar to what he is saying?

Do away with it and have it replaced by a Child Benefit that people apply for. Why should anyone be entitled to money just for having a kid? Because it's expensive?...why is that the tax payers problem? Why do people who may never have kids paying towards other peoples kids?

Because that's the system we live within. Why not scrap tax credits?

Wompa1

Galtee wrote: »

Because that's the system we live within. Why not scrap tax credits?

I don't get it? What system do we live in that we have to give money to anybody with a hand out? We declaring socialism?

Yakult

When was child benefit introduced into the state?

Galtee

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't get it? What system do we live in that we have to give money to anybody with a hand out? We declaring socialism?

OK, so you won't mind abolishing your tax credit then and the tax bands so that everyone pays one tax rate on everything they earn?

Helix

blackdog2 wrote: »

Not a choice in this country I am afraid; try again next referendum

I wasn't talking about abortion

Wompa1

Galtee wrote: »

OK, so you won't mind abolishing your tax credit then and the tax bands so that everyone pays one tax rate on everything they earn?

Huh? I don't get your logic? Where are you coming from with this? Why would abolishing child benefit mean everyone paying the one tax rate?

What tax rate would you propose? I might fair better off myself in the long run, so maybe! :-)

seanmc1980

Dudess wrote: »

Working people get children's allowance so I don't get what the "Don't have kids if you can't afford them" stuff is about.

Well I don't understand why anyone would come out with that monumentally stupid line in any context, but there you go...

okay i'll explain it to you in simple english. if you rely on children's allowance to pay for your children upbringing then don't have kid because at your current level of income you can't afford them,

simples

seanmc1980

Galtee wrote: »

OK, so you won't mind abolishing your tax credit then and the tax bands so that everyone pays one tax rate on everything they earn?

why are you comparing social welfare payments with tax credits? i don't understand what your trying to convey?
soical welfare spend is taotally sepreate to the states revenue generating system?

moco

How mch is childrens allowance?

Sorry if it's in the thread, haven't time to read it all!

Is it something you have to apply for, or is it automatically paid to everyone?

Noopti

daltonmd wrote: »

I don't think so. Some people here are playing the man not the ball. It's not what was said, but who said it!!

It should be scrapped and in it's place there should be tax credits for low earners and means tested for social Welfare recipients.

He did re-hash it for publicity. He wouldn't have gone on to say something along the lines of "the government are paying people to have sex, I don't know about you but I am happy to have sex without being paid for it" if he wasn't looking for the media and everyone else to talk about it and thus him and his airline.

He re-hashed an argument that everyone has been banging on about for ages in order to gain publicity, and it worked of course. He is the master of coming out with the absurd (the original argument was not absurd, but the subsequent "sex payment" line was) to gain free publicity.

Faolchu

seanmc1980 wrote: »

okay i'll explain it to you in simple english. if you rely on children's allowance to pay for your children upbringing then don't have kid because at your current level of income you can't afford them,

simples

couldnt have said it better myself really. personally i think it shoudl be scrapped, why should my tax money be used to fund your lifestyle choice, and being a parent is a lifestyle choice. if you want to be a parent, fair play but dont expect me to pay you for it. its you kid you feed it.

i dont normally agree with O'Leary but in this case i think he's right. scrap it completly and channel that funding into other benifits that way those that really do need it will still get it those that dont wont.

Or food stamps, no more cash for childrens allowance, food stamps that can only be used to pay for things like bread, milk, meant, veg, nappies, baby formula etc. the essentials for living. maybe even restrict it further that the stamps can not be used if Alcohol/fags are purchased at the same time. so it ensures they are used on food only

saa

He is right and its sad but we're going to have to learn how to live poor again and budget everything and if you do then we're all going to get better at it as the cuts need to happen, and yes not the most vulnerable.

I know very well the costs of growing up as a child without a lot resources.
Shoes once a year, no brand named clothes, quality family time and activities with a toy not just a big toy or loads of toys, no pocket money, basic meals, playing outside to save on the elecy, reading, going to the library, no holidays, no lavish birthday parties, cheap craft activities and there is just so much more.. or less should I say. And that was in the early boom times as well mind you.

But let me just say this when will the schools go back to basics!
How can books cost 300 euro a year plus why can't they be passed down so the only set of books you have to buy is in your final year or to supplement.
50 euro jumpers just for a crest, 5 or 10 euro being requested here and there for this and that.

Faolchu

saa wrote: »

50 euro jumpers just for a crest, .

I dont have kids but that is a joke. I know someone and their school allows the school tracksuit to be worn instead of pants and jumper. there is a class photo being taken in teh last week of teh last year for students and tehy all MUST wear teh pants and jumper. now i know my mate wont be buying a €50 jumper for one day of school and i dont think a school shoudl expect tjem to either.

Hells Belle

It's €140 per month per child. You get more if you have multiples.

In most other developed nations people are encouraged to have children, it has something to do with the small matter of ageing populations and those children paying tax to help with your pension/healthcare when you are old. It helps if those children are well fed, healthy and educated.

In Australia they do it through a tax credit system, same in the UK, I see no problem in that but it's a bit too complicated for us so we probably wouldn't bother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit

Irl rates were reduced in last budget.

My name is URL

seanmc1980 wrote: »

okay i'll explain it to you in simple english. if you rely on children's allowance to pay for your children upbringing then don't have kid because at your current level of income you can't afford them,

simples

lol.. it costs about €200,000 to raise a child from birth until they reach 21/ finish college. If every single person were required to show that they can afford to do that before they have kids then hardly anyone would be giving birth. Who decides how much income you need to have before you get to have a kid? I'm sure you can see 20 odd years into the future though, in your infinite wisdom; and guarantee that you will never ever depend on help from anyone else.

Helix

My name is URL wrote: »

Who decides how much income you need to have before you get to have a kid?

a responsible adult with a bit of cop on should be able to manage just fine

Galtee

Wompa1 wrote: »

Huh? I don't get your logic? Where are you coming from with this? Why would abolishing child benefit mean everyone paying the one tax rate?

What tax rate would you propose? I might fair better off myself in the long run, so maybe! :-)

seanmc1980 wrote: »

why are you comparing social welfare payments with tax credits? i don't understand what your trying to convey?
soical welfare spend is taotally sepreate to the states revenue generating system?

Firstly, the tax credit is something for free in its simplest terms and hence the same principle applies to abolishing the child benefit. Why should you automatically be entitled to child benefit? Well why should you automatically be entitled to a tax credit? It's part of the system we live within.

Secondly, In order to have a lower tax bracket you need to have a higher one so in effect the higher tax payers are subsidising the lower tax payers if you want to be pedantic about it. If there were no higher tax earners then the tax rate would have to be raised for all to ensure that exchequer targets are met.

My name is URL

Helix wrote: »

a responsible adult with a bit of cop on should be able to manage just fine

So those who are irresponsible and have a kid should just be allowed to fall by the wayside, and the kid face a life of hardship because of its parents? I'm no clairvoyant but I can imagine that leading to a lot more problems in future, and ultimately at a greater social cost than giving them some help when they need it.

Of course in an idealistic utopia; where everything is picture perfect and fits your world view, only responsible adults would ever have kids. But there's right and wrong, and good and bad; and somewhere in between there is life as it is; which is rarely so black and white.

Helix

My name is URL wrote: »

So those who are irresponsible and have a kid should just be allowed to fall by the wayside, and the kid face a life of hardship because of its parents?.

no, the kid should be taken from them and put into suitable foster care

if you cant afford to have children, which means if you are really relying on the children's welfare to pay for them, then you're selfish and irresponsible if you have kids

Wompa1

Galtee wrote: »

Firstly, the tax credit is something for free in its simplest terms and hence the same principle applies to abolishing the child benefit. Why should you automatically be entitled to child benefit? Well why should you automatically be entitled to a tax credit? It's part of the system we live within.

Secondly, In order to have a lower tax bracket you need to have a higher one so in effect the higher tax payers are subsidising the lower tax payers if you want to be pedantic about it. If there were no higher tax earners then the tax rate would have to be raised for all to ensure that exchequer targets are met.

I might be wrong about this but isn't Tax Credits based on what you are making and is weighted on assumptions i.e. You gave this much in tax, so we will credit you this much because we should make interest on what we are taking off you. So your money should be generating your own tax credits? Like social security in the States that leads to your own state pension...Essentially kicking the can down the road. So we'll have to pay you blah blah in the event of...we won't worry about that until it happens though and then we'll be in the situation we are all in right now. Can't afford to support the current system.

Wouldn't say that's free in any sense. I'd gladly allow them to do away with Tax Credits if I can have more take home pay, I'd just invest the take home pay myself and incur my own risk. Rather than have the politicians losing my money anyway and then charging me more afterwards.

I still don't see how it fits into this discussion though....

Sparkyd2002

Galtee wrote: »

Firstly, the tax credit is something for free in its simplest terms and hence the same principle applies to abolishing the child benefit. Why should you automatically be entitled to child benefit? Well why should you automatically be entitled to a tax credit? It's part of the system we live within.

Secondly, In order to have a lower tax bracket you need to have a higher one so in effect the higher tax payers are subsidising the lower tax payers if you want to be pedantic about it. If there were no higher tax earners then the tax rate would have to be raised for all to ensure that exchequer targets are met.

LOL you are entitled to a tax credit because you are employable and have a job i.e you give something back to the economy. I have 2 children and a decent job and im damned if i think i deserve an allowance just because i chose to have children. Just because our system pays you to have children in this country doesn't mean its correct. The system has to change. You cant just say to everyone "here i will give you money to have kids". yes those on lower incomes or in particular those who encounter hard time sneed help but this cant just be a cheque made payable to all from Michael O leary down.

Hells Belle

Helix wrote: »

no, the kid should be taken from them and put into suitable foster care

if you cant afford to have children, which means if you are really relying on the children's welfare to pay for them, then you're selfish and irresponsible if you have kids

Foster carers still get childrens allowance. :rolleyes:

Foster carers also get paid €312 per week per child (which they totally deserve, hats off guys).

So you've torn apart families and you've saved us how much with this idea? Cruelty is a horrible trait.

Galtee

Wompa1 wrote: »

I might be wrong about this but isn't Tax Credits based on what you are making and is weighted on assumptions i.e. You gave this much in tax, so we will credit you this much because we should make interest on what we are taking off you. So your money should be generating your own tax credits? Like social security in the States that leads to your own state pension...Essentially kicking the can down the road. So we'll have to pay you blah blah in the event of...we won't worry about that until it happens though and then we'll be in the situation we are all in right now. Can't afford to support the current system.

Wouldn't say that's free in any sense. I'd gladly allow them to do away with Tax Credits if I can have more take home pay, I'd just invest the take home pay myself and incur my own risk. Rather than have the politicians losing my money anyway and then charging me more afterwards.

I still don't see how it fits into this discussion though....

Tax credits are not weighted based on what you're paying.
And, the principle is the same, the general concensus in here is that cb should be taken away because it's given for free and I'm making the comparison that tax credits are given for free and that noone is moaning about that. Instead people prefer to blindly latch onto a comment made by someone who could just as easily have said that CB should be doubled if if suited him than to actually think about what was said and how it fits into the great scheme of things.

My name is URL

Helix wrote: »

no, the kid should be taken from them and put into suitable foster care

if you cant afford to have children, which means if you are really relying on the children's welfare to pay for them, then you're selfish and irresponsible if you have kids

Really? And what of the parents? Do you think that people would simply accept such extreme intervention from the state? I suppose we could just lock them up if they don't accept our terms, right?

And again, who decides what is an appropriate income to have before you are permitted to have kids?

If somebody relies on the children's allowance to help them raise a child they are irresponsible parents? Get real ffs. Wealth is far from the only indicator of responsibility.. and not nearly the most important.

Galtee

Sparkyd2002 wrote: »

LOL you are entitled to a tax credit because you are employable and have a job i.e you give something back to the economy. I have 2 children and a decent job and im damned if i think i deserve an allowance just because i chose to have children. Just because our system pays you to have children in this country doesn't mean its correct. The system has to change. You cant just say to everyone "here i will give you money to have kids". yes those on lower incomes or in particular those who encounter hard time sneed help but this cant just be a cheque made payable to all from Michael O leary down.

And, in the system you live in you are entitled to a child benefit because you have children. You can't just pick and choose what suits you. :rolleyes: